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S8E24: Another Kind of Truth with David Shields (Patreon)

Published:
2024-07-02 04:32:02
Imported:
2026-06
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  • BEE_070124_S8E24_DAVID_SHIELDS_RETURNS.mp3

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Content

Writer David Shields returns to the show to talk with Bret about studying rhetoric as warfare in How We Got Here, the rapidly shrinking gap between truth and fiction and the brilliant excess of challenging military heroism.

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Comments

Jerome Busca

The guy believes in the pee tape... ahem

David Eugene

Hmmm “challenging military heroism”… I assume that he is a veteran and is humble? No? Just a left coast liberal whiner who would never put himself on the line, but would gladly continue to vote for politicians that put others in harms way?! This will be a WONDERFUL listen. I think especially coming out at this time of year, I’ll say FUCK THIS GUY!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

John Q. Thompson

When is he gonna have Kevin Spacey or Armie Hammer on?

Phillip De Vous

Lots of profound and penetrating thoughts here. However, it’s odd as insightful as Shields is, he still ends up believing certain mainstream leftist political myths and things demonstrated to be hoaxes. A reminder that no matter how smart we are, we are always more social than truthful.

Tracey Porter

Woolf appreciated Joyce because his nonlinear narrative was truer to experience than the traditional, structured narratives of Victorian novels. For many reasons, she was prudish and a snob. Even though she thought he was vulgar, she greatly admired Joyce. The quote goes something like, “ Life is not a series of lamps symmetrically arranged; life is a luminous halo.”

Patrick

“So you’re telling me we can’t believe anything we’re shown anymore?” I’m asking. “That everything is altered? That everything’s a lie? That everyone will believe this?” “That’s a fact,” Palakon says. “So what’s true, then?” I cry out. “Nothing, Victor.” Palakon says. “There are different truths.”

Oliver Daly

Amazing episode. Transparently searching, literary. Pop but existential. What the BEE podcast is all about.

Seneca Garcia

David Shields! Pretty sure this is his 3rd appearance . . . Shields on 80’s wrestling reminds me of Barthes in S/Z

Poetical Gore

this guy was a clown with some TDS... he believes russian collusion at all? And yes, Nietzche said God is dead but Dostoevsky is a very christian writer. And saying that Derrida and the post modernists were used by the right to do anything is ridiculous.. that is all leftwing garbage used to destroy our love of art and western culture. and LOL at the OMG there a black people in Lincoln's bed....any anti black racist it not going to be fond of Lincoln.

David Lowe

Where did Bret pull that ivermectin/CDC “fact” from? I just checked FDA and CDC websites and they both continue to state that ivermectin is NOT approved for treating/preventing COVID infections. Was he being meta/ironic, given the subject of the podcast? Or was he just talking out of his arse?

richard owain roberts

am going to listen on my run. will say more later, after my run.

Elizabeth

Would love to hear the post script of this pod after the debate debacle. Shields got it very wrong

Travis Films
>>142577689

You're still listening to the CDC and wondering if OTHER people are uninformed???

Sven Ackermann

Biden's state of health was discussedin german media, and there was an article at 1:58 am, today, having a rather hopeful aspect to it. When i opened the ny times shortly after reading it, there were headlines giving the impression, that it wouldn't become much better and implying, biden should step back. i don't know whether you refer to shields analysis of biden as boring, but i guess. and yes, the trump agenda is very entertaining. but the expense of that entertainment is crucial to our implication with it. so the pc versus comfort debate is where we draw the line. Socrates might have been right, yet we need to differentiate between truth as it being presented, truth as a part of gaining knowledge and truth as an agent in self reflecting. for the podcast, i wonder if there is another truth. yet, i thoroughly enjoyed it and look forward to the next.

Ashley

I wonder if Bret has ever read “Simulacra and Simulation” by Jean Baudrillard… Illusion IS everything…. “You see, if you make believe hard enough that something is true, then it is true for you.” -Burt Lancaster in The Swimmer 🏊

R. M.

This guy is weak tea pseudo-intellectual nonsense. His whole book sounds like quotes of interesting shit other people said, no wonder the guy that he mentioned is sick of being quoted by him. Bret couldn't get a word in edge wise but was a gracious host.

Mike White

Circular word salad. But you’re always great, Bret!

James__

Very respectfully, that should probably be Mr Shield’s last appearance.

George's wife Martha

I found the guest mildly interesting/boarding on irritating but stayed with him—until the pee tape/Russian collusion/TDS kicked in. He got SO uncomfortable—he was stammering!

Dave

Enjoyed the discussion (especially the last five minutes)!

Dave
>>142706078

Bret has a refreshingly insightful sense of Trump and the nation, I must say.

Dave
>>142695166

Likewise! Surprised that he believed in Russia! Russia! after an hour of engaging skepticism.

Edi Panta

Well, this pod episode on Trump and truism landed on the right day. Especially, with the debate debacle looming in the background.Happy Fourth of July!

FlyingWaffle

TDS? Trump gave the best definition of TDS back in 2016: “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn’t lose any voters, OK? It’s, like, incredible.” Here are a few truths: Blood is red. Ice is less dense than water, which is why it floats in water. Hurricanes rotate anticlockwise in the Northern hemisphere and clockwise in the Southern hemisphere. On a street map, it's easier to find the shortest path between two points than finding the longest path. The speed of light in a vacuum is exactly 299,792,458.0 m/s. Glass can't scratch diamond.

GC

Have to say, I found a lot of this talk pretty cringey. I think even Bret was struggling to understand Shields, he's uncharacteristically quiet for much of it, and it sounds like some editing has been done. I've always thought Shields was the epitome of the pseudo-intellectual and I laughed how, in the first ten minutes, he trots out two of the biggest writerly cliches, the 'sliver of ice' (which he misquotes) and 'may you live in interesting times'. The 'truth' is, ha ha, that the following book (from nearly ten years ago!) details everything Shields talks about in a much more lucid and less pretentious fashion:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nothing-True-Everything-Possible-Adventures/dp/0571308023

Erick
>>142629046

I have always wanted to read that books since I saw it in Neo's apartment in the Matrix. Thanks for reminding me of it

Nick Not Nolte

when bret has to get “simulacrum” into the conversation one way or another 😂

Erick
>>142629046

Sadly this isn't on audio book, I'm going to have to get a hard copy

Erick
>>142505187

Armie I'd find interesting. Spacey , regardless of controversy I don't find interesting at all. Any interviews of him are predictably the same of any actor being interviewed

Erick

I like Bret's idea that Trump would be adverse to anything with pee. Lol. I have a germophobe friend, they freak about the silliest things

Todd

Not sure what most of you are banging on about, this was incredibly entertaining. Shields isn’t saying he has any concrete answers and he’s got so many interesting ideas swirling around. Please have him on every month! Ok, maybe not, annually at least!

Knokkel knokkel

This is my fifth time trying to complete this episode! Hopefully I will manage as I have paid in full for this nonsense!

Jim Weaver

First half was interesting. Last 10 minutes were strange to say the least. Shields seemed to just fall apart defending Biden and dismissing Trump. Not to mention not knowing what ivermectin was, likely gets all his “truths” from the New York Times and New Yorker. Good job by Bret attempting to keep him at least somewhat fair and balanced.

Jack

TRUMP 2024!!!

PETER GREER

…great episode I just your podcast thank you 👏🏻

NLJZ

I have to assume that the comments mostly attract the complainers. Trump fan, cry babies who can’t stand guests saying anything even vaguely against Trump. There must be scads of contented listeners, happy for another Shields appearance on the podcast. Clearly BEE thinks he’s an excellent and interesting guest. Of course, it probably helps to have interacted with the actual work. Reality Hunger is brilliant. If you can’t be bothered to read (seems odd that you’d be paying for a writer’s podcast but…) the Marshawn Lynch documentary is fascinating as well.

John Q. Thompson

Does anyone remember in what episode recently Bret discussed the film "Little Darlings"? Recently watched it and would like to revisit his comments on it.

Ashley
>>142963446

Whoa I’m literally watchig it right now! I don’t have the answer to your question though. Would like to know too

John Q. Thompson
>>142963446

Wish they'd somehow tag the films he reviews so you could search for specific reviews here. All I really remember was him talking about Matt Dillon's ass in those jeans.

Nick Not Nolte

kinda hard to listen cause i’m just stumped that bret still thinks reality tv isn’t scripted 😂😂😂

Erik
>>142577689

He's responding directly to a false claim made in the podcast, Travis.

Jim Corboy

What a episode; Bret still believes in reality TV like it is real or something and this Sheilds guy still believes the Steele dossier and that there is a Trump pee tape

MisterBlasty

Good job sniffing out Shields as someone who also lives in his own narrative bubble.

Mark DeCaro

What is this guest talking about?

Bazayer

Absolutely thrilled you managed to get David Shields back on the pod! One of the best guests ever.

Bazayer
>>142851130

Agreed - he's a very good foil for Bret and they always have great conversations even though they don't agree.

Mitchell

Great conversation

Andy Wagner
>>142890156

Funny, 20 mins to go, and it feels like it’s trending exactly as you’re describing. Given the theme of truth coursing through this conversation, ironic Shields doesn’t *actually* have quite the grip he thinks he does. He actually said the words, during this interview which is on the evening of the presidential debate, something like “Trump rallies WERE comedy before his cognitive decline,” telling me he is of a worldview, which Shields thinks is truth, where cognitive decline is a Trump issue, not a Biden issue. Bret does a nice job not engaging the political disagreements, and subtle slides in commentary that rights the ship. Love that about BEE. Shields brings a good conversation to the table; a well done balance of two men who clearly are interested in the topic. Whoa, last ten minutes just kicked in. Bret is doing a good job at pointing out the absurdity that occurs on the left, too. Anyway, appreciate you teeing it up.

Jose

Ivermectin has not been approved by the CDC to cure Covid. Quite the contrary. Bret needs to wake up from Breitbart once in a while.

Dennis
>>142577689

BEE is a brilliant writer and an insightful movie critic, but he is painfully ignorant about science and doesn't always have the wisdom to shut up when he's ill-informed.

Siamese Dream

I enjoyed listening but I'm not sure where this leaves us. They seem to be arguing that this notion of fluid or ecstatic or poetic truth is emblematic of the modern world and that fuddy duddies like David Remnick just don't seem to get it. I agree that it's important to be tuned into this notion of truth but the simple fact is that you can't build a functioning society around it. The institutions will crumble, as will the bridges.

J Hay
>>143734354

After I posted the same link as you did, I saw your comment . Suspicious minds think alike? :)

J Walter
>>144217821

Lol...oh the FDA! The government agency that allows all of our food to be pumped with poison and carcinogens. Yes, let's take their guidance on an extremely politically sensitive topic. The head of the FDA...serves at the leisure of the President. Of course they're not going to say ivermectin is safe when they can sell more shots.

J Hay
>>144217821

Perhaps you should direct your ire at Bret, since he’s the one who mentioned the CDC. I just followed up on it. Also, the makers of Ivermectin make $$$, too, y’know… or do you? “…Merck has made significant progress with its COVID-19 pill, Molnupiravir…However, Merck also owns ivermectin…” https://marketrealist.com/p/who-owns-ivermectin/

Alexander Quattlander
>>144217821

Point is everyone discredited Ivermectin cause Trump was for it and now suddenly they admit it actually isn't just horse dewormer..🤔

Alexander Quattlander

This dude waited until end of episode to admit he believes Steel Dossier and Russian Collusion Delusion. Discredits everything he said pretty much. He can quote Nietzsche and Bill Shakespeare all he wants..

Shawn T
>>143347669

Was that the source ? Was news to me…and apparently not news.

Shawn T
>>142890156

Actually found it to be an honest reaction from shields…a grounding so to speak

J Hay
>>144217821

Not surprising, since Trump continues to lie over and over about many things — far more lies than any politician of any party.

Alec K. Redfearn
>>144217821

The claim that Bret was making was that 'the CDC was now calling Ivermectin the #1 treatment for Covid', or something to that effect. My google searches haven't turned anything up to verify this. Granted, Google's search feature has gone to shit lately. The CDC website mentions the antiviral medications Paxlovid and Legevrio, but does not mention Ivermectin. https://www.cdc.gov/covid/treatment/index.html#cdc_treatment_overview-covid-19-treatment-options Anyone have a source for this claim? I suspect it's bunk, but I'm willing to keep an open mind.

Bobby Queens

re: Bret's remark about Trump's lies getting at larger truths. Tony Montana said it best. "I always tell the truth, even when I lie." Glad to see that others have noted (though not always simultaneously) how this great conversation goes off the rails at the end with the claim of 'we've never seen the Steele Dossier and Putin's definitely got a pee tape,' dueling with 'big pharma conspired to swiftboat ivermectin and now it's the CDC's number one recommended Covid medication.' Bret came out worse on this score, IMO.

AF
>>144913360

My mouth dropped to the floor when I heard that. No wonder the country is so divided. He thinks a pee tape really exists?! Really??!!

Ray Bowers

People like this can theorise about there being no truth. But there is truth. The people want to be protected and want to be safe and want to have a chance at prosperity. And Trump gives them that and CNN and the democrats want to destroy that. ITS SO SIMPLE