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S8E47: The Madness of Crowds with Justine Bateman (Patreon)

Published:
2024-12-10 08:50:12
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Justine Bateman returns to the show and talks with Bret about old structures breaking under new weight, flummoxing film festivals with the avant-garde and pop culture losing touch with the pulse of popular needs.

Files

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Comments

M. Nero Nava

Cool, the woman from Satisfaction is on the arts and culture show to offer her take on contemporary culture…on the sometimes cinema show. Isn’t it also award season over on Earth 2? Yeah, but—we are talking to Justine Bateman (second time she’s been on) about Trump. Nice of her to get time off from working at CVS to come over and talk “wokeness” and “the future”.

john m
>>157875557

No one cares you think. It’s not the “arts and culture show”, it’s the Brett Ellis show- and this conversation is clearly very important to him- as it is to many of us. Trump’s victory is the most positive & consequential cultural event in decades.

Brian Shallcross
>>157875557

It’s a yawn fest. The woke movement was already dead. People think they are getting 2016 Trump but they aren’t. He’s old and doesn’t care. Prepare for disappointment

Brian Shallcross
>>157875557

This idea that Trump dolts are the new intellectuals will fade quickly now that they have the microphone

Seneca Garcia

Justine Bateman is the perfect BEE podcast guest. Bateman interviewing Bateman. Save the snark for Twitter, we are all friends here ✌🏽🔪

Ryan Peck

Bret referred to his work on The Shards HBO adaptation in past tense, does that mean it’s no longer happening? Let’s certainly hope not…

Mark DeCaro

Had such a crush on Mallory as a kid! Family Ties was mandatory 80s viewing.

Patrick
>>157908048

He’s seemed pretty bummed about the Shards the last few times it came up. And this did sound like him hinting at putting another nail in the coffin to me. (Or he really doesn’t give a shit.)

Oleg

it is a real torture to listen to stupid people talk.

richard owain roberts

am going to listen on my run. will say more later, after my run.

Johnny Blade

I don't give a fuck about potatoes or Cheetos, can we talk about books and movies and music and shit? I thought Bret wasn't on Twitter anymore, who else cares about this fuckin' WOKE/TRANS shit or what that ELON freak has to say? Christ, somebody give Bret a dick to suck, dude sounds more depressed than ever.

Nick Fairbrother

Why do you listen to Bret if you disagree with his views on the culture?

J.A.

This was kind of a pointless episode, but very funny that Bret thinks old batshit crazy Donald is the beacon of sanity and common sense! Hilarious 😂

Richard Raymond

If you're going to complain about the death of cinema but can't name any movies over the last year that you've seen in the theater or liked, sincerely go fuck yourself. The threat to movies isn't AI, it's you. Yes, studios are overly risk averse, short sighted and cowardly. But they are only reacting to a public who steadfastly refuse to get up off their goddamn ass and financially support the good movies that come out. As someone who manages to catch 2-3 movies in the theater every week, there is no good reason why the average person cannot come out to see a bare minimum of 2-3 movies a month. Otherwise just admit that you don't care about cinema enough to make the effort. As the proliferation of remakes and sequels continues and you're looking for someone to blame, make sure you point that finger where it belongs. At yourself.

turtleboy

Harris didn't even campaign on woke/DEI? She was a bad candidate with a worse campaign, but no one who paid any attention thinks it's because of woke. This is an embarrassing and off base Fox News Uncle talking point

Gaffney

Fastest I've ever clicked on an episode

Paul Richardson

I’m very much in favour of anti-AI film festivals, but there’s no way there’ll be another 2001: A Space Odyssey without it.

Happyhead

Bret please stop. This isn’t your lane

Harold B

The only good thing about the fall of Hollywood is that it allows Bret to go mask off. All the people saying only stupid people oppose woke—obviously Bret is one the greatest novelist of the last 50 years so your theory is as ridiculous as it is lazy and cruel. Stop judging people for their cultural and political opinions. And accept that you all belonged to a temporary radical left movement that is now in the process of leaving the mainstream. You’re the new hippies but without the great music.

Wil Kelly

Would love to hear Bret flail in a conversation with Ezra Klein or Jon Stewart. Why don’t you bring someone on who challenges you?

Phoenix

Great episode. Hilarious that people pay for this pod and then act surprised by the content. I hope there’s a part 2.

Andy Nowicki
>>158011369

Geez, no movie has a *right* to be seen, and people aren't bad for choosing not to go to movies. Your anger is bewildering

Brian Kenna
>>158024979

BEE: “Trump won the election.” E. Klein: “Yes, he did.” BEE: “A majority said “enough” to the radical progressive agenda.” J.Stewart: “Yes, they did.” BEE: “Next?”

Nick Not Nolte

lol the unbiased gen-x’r really trying hard to prove he’s an unbiased gen-x’r by being insanely bias 😂

Chris N

Bret should consider moving to a red state since liberals drive him so crazy. Except he would never do that since they are miserable places to live and populated by actual retards. Long Chu really had his number when she wrote his political convictions extend about as far as how much he’s able to enjoy dinner.

Andy Nowicki
>>158033050

"Miserable places to live" Yeah that's why everyone's moving to glorious blue enclaves like Portland, Seattle, and San Francisco now, right? 😂

Erix Antoine

People like Justine Bateman would’ve been fine if Kamala Harris won the election, just like she’s fine now. It’s the lower middle / working class that is going to have a hard time. The irony is many of them voted for Trump. No one outside the internet bubble actually cares about “woke” and trans issues. They mostly just want to live their lives in peace, while figuring out how to put food on the table. And many of them assume voting for a Trump administration will help them do that. And they’re wrong. But they always fall for it. Because they don’t know any better and the GOP knows how to manipulate their frustrations And once again, the GOP will inherit a strong economy, fuck it up, then the pendulum will swing back the other way…the dems will get back in, fix it, then the pendulum swings back; and so on. And no one will learn a goddamn thing. And people like Justine Bateman or Jimmy Woods and all that… they will whine about irrelevant “problems,” that don’t actually affect them. And they live in a blue state, so it doesn’t even matter either way. Apart from that idiocy, the convo finally became engaging when it shifted away from politics and into culture. But this was not one of my favorite episodes. I’ll leave it at that.

GC

The only 'derangement' I'm hearing here is two hysterical West-coasters who think treating other people with respect is 'oppressive' and how injecting yourself with bleach is 'common sense'. In a recent survey most people in the U.S didn't even know what 'woke' was, it's just a talking point of the East and West coast chattering classes while most people worry about the economy.

FlyingWaffle

I've carefully bookmarked this precious episode in case one day I need to make myself puke violently again (to cure poisoning or as a last-minute endoscopy prep).

FlyingWaffle

Why keep paying for what has become a MAGA podcast? - It's a powerful constant reminder of what can happen when living in an echo chamber, captured by a myopic nostalgia for a very privileged version of the past. - The next 4 years are poised to be such a train wreck it's actually going to be super entertaining to watch Bret try and hide behind his vacuous/hilarious "I leave the POLICIES to other podcasts! This is all about the CUUUULTUUUUURE... THE CUUUULTUUUUURE"... - As Bret is slowly turning into the crazy old man shouting from his porch, I'm still grateful for all the good stuff he's produced in the past and happy to keep subsidizing his healthcare bills and lifestyle.

rbkhe

Will never not be funny to hear Bret exhalt the wisdom of Gen X when they are the ones who raised the young millennials and Gen Zers he always complains about

rbkhe

Bret every day for the last 4 years: Wokeness is a disease!!!!! People in the real world: Hey man how are you

Steven Mills

Poor babies. Did someone hurt your Feewings?

Jeremy goodwin

Albino Amputee has a chance at being best comedy made in a very long time. I look forward to this one.

OSOS

“Not a political podcast” as aging man demonstrated the effects of intentionally making yourself mad by only living in a cesspool of an echo chamber that’s whole purpose is to divide you and make you think what you’re seeing is the real world. Maybe hanging out with these grifters is some kind of research for a new book bc otherwise how pathetic to live your life intentionally angry over imaginary situations

FlyingWaffle

According to his personal polling in his little West Hollywood and Beverly Hills "Nouveau-MAGA" bubble, Bret makes it sounds like we, the Gen-X, voted for Trump at 80% and/or that our votes shifted massively or something... facts: https://i.imgur.com/sl9ej2C.png For women above 45, Kamala 2024 did better than Biden 2020 by 2 points, and for men above 45, she did better than Biden 2020 by 1 point. So there's nothing to see here besides the known fact that old folks tend to vote more conservative.

FlyingWaffle

Turns out that Bret's existential dread in those last few years was caused by Joe and Kamala's oppressive policies. We were looking for fragile snowflakes in the wrong places I guess...

Jack
>>158048169

Wrong. Everything was way cheaper in Trump’s first term. Dem’s failed policies have greatly increased inflation, hurting poor people the most.

Erix Antoine
>>158048169

You are quite misinformed if you see things that way. But you’ll never accept that. So there’s no point in having this conversation. Thank you for engaging.

FlyingWaffle

Man, I truly had no idea who this "famous" guest was and why everyone seemed so excited... I had to look her up. That's because FAMILY TIES was never syndicated in French speaking Europe in the 80s/90s, I only vaguely know about it because Michael J. Fox was in it. Hopefully someday we'll get a guest who was on EIGHT IS ENOUGH or LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE... lol

OSOS
>>158048169

You do realize we were steered out of a recession? Of course there is going to be some inflation. A recession we were heading in bc of a global pandemic, how can you be so ignorant to pretend that’s not going to significantly impact our economy? And let’s not forget that it was Trumps handling of gasoline during Covid that led to gas going up.

OSOS
>>158011369

He makes money off of a “culture” podcast where he purposefully doesn’t engage with culture anymore bc he’s miserable. Listeners who once loved this podcast have a right to be angry and leave an angry comment

R. M.

The pearl clutching in the comments is delicious per usual.

Justin

Another right-wing guest who's completely disconnected from reality? Quelle Surprise!

Justin
>>158100176

The amount of collective amnesia it must take to think the pendulum (CULTURALLY) won't swing to the left during the next four years...

Charlie C

Brady Corbay? Thought it was Brady Cor-bit. He's American no? Also- sounds like Bret saw The Brutalist, it would be cool if he could do a long review of it.

OSOS
>>158098007

Ahh so you must be one of those that’s triggered seeing a black person in a friend group in a movie and that that’s woke? Cause otherwise you’d see the ludicrousness of calling Alien “woke”

OSOS
>>158024979

Seem to forget the amazing interview he gave when Trump won in 2016 where he couldn’t actually answer a single question on his viewpoints and clearly proved himself to just be a miserable contrarian

R. M.

Everyone I disagree with is a right wing grifter: The Bret Easton Ellis comment section edition.

Neil G.
>>158100176

the amount of retardation it must take to make a comment like this, yet think you are witty when you are not even basically functioning...I mean, that just makes you so retarded, it is beyond subhuman 😂😂

Florence
>>158070187

Exactly. Listening to some episodes during the first trump era is hard bc Bret did have some trump derangement syndrome also!!!! No matter what he says!

Jack
>>158048169

Wrong. Gas was 2.90 in LA in Dec 2020. You guys are lucky to live under Trump 2.0

Lionel
>>158078490

I thought Trump did really well with young men who get most of their news from Joe Rogan and Reddit ? Isn’t that the demographic that swung it ?

BRC

I hope this was part 1 of multiple. 💗

OSOS
>>158118707

Let’s see: Does this person have any cultural relevance in 2024 outside of their twitter pager? Yes or No > No Does the mentioned Twitter page capitalize off of sensationalized headlines and straight up misinformation? Let’s take an example from a few days ago, a retweeted video of a mentally ill woman having a freakout after a fender bender. The caption of this video says “Kamala support loses their mind after car accident” - the video shows no evidence this is a Kamala supporter. Let’s do another example, constant posting about wokeness and shaved heads. > Yes This is literally a conservative grifter

David Willis

I think Bret needed to add a trigger warning for this episode but that still wouldn’t have prevented all the little libtard cry babies moaning in the comments and well common sense won so trigger warnings aren’t going to be a thing anymore thank fucking god. Also… you folks continue to pay for a podcast made by a dude who is clearly anti leftism and when he does an anti leftism podcast you moan about it?? And you’re on the non retarded side?? 😂

Happyhead
>>158178982

I'm not a libtard. I hate all politics and political grifters. I would be complaining if he had libs as guests dissing Trump too. This politics culture war shit is not the reason I subscribed to this podcast, and I have canceled my subscription because of it

Happyhead
>>158118707

Wrong I hate ALL political grifters (left and right) and culture war nonsense. I would have cancelled if he had a bunch of libs on complaining about Trump too. I cancelled because I hate politics and unfortunately BEE seems to have fallen into them and its unbecoming. it's not his lane at all.

R. M.
>>158118707

If you canceled why are you still here? Bye Felicia. Also, by canceling your sub then hanging around to complain, you’re no different then the butt hurt wackadoo libs that performatively announce they’re leaving X for Blue Sky, yet they are still constantly looking at and commenting on X.

Happyhead
>>158118707

The fact that you are following all this shit is a sign of real spiritual sickness

Anthony Giancola

I’m not even mad about Bret’s newfound old-man yelling at cloud-ism that will come for us all in the end. That’s fine. My biggest issue is his continued line of being “not political” at all, when the last like 5 or 6 guests have been strictly political (and it’s kind of impossible to separate social issues from political issues unfortunately) and the worst part is that Bret is such a hypocrite. He cries about TDS, but he has TDSDS, and can’t hear any criticism of Trump without crying. He’s moaning about the “meltdowns” of the liberals but doesn’t talk about the much more ridiculous meltdowns on the right. “Identity politics” and “trigger warnings” set him off, but he is one of the most ideological and easily triggered commentators working today. He can’t say DEI or Trans without getting angry, like dude, just have authors on and talk about Balzac that’s all anyone really wants anyway. Also who the fuck is Justine Bateman and why does she sound like that?

Erix Antoine
>>158178982

You’re being a little too optimistic if you think trigger warnings and safe spaces and all those things you hate are going to magically disappear. All that stuff is here to stay. And brace yourself. Because….there will be more of that stuff. Not less.

David Willis
>>158178982

Well perhaps I am being overly optimistic but you need something to cling onto during times like these.

David Willis
>>158178982

That’s fair you’re free to cancel anytime if you don’t like the themes or an episode. My point was this wasn’t the first time. He wrote the book White years ago ffs. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Nathan Stack
>>158203251

Haven't listened yet. How far should I fast-forward to get past all that and (maybe) get to something interesting and not retreading the same old ground?

Pia Dykert

I would like to be able to stream any film festival

Anthony Giancola
>>158203251

I’m gonna be so for real, it’s about a half hour deep into the show before they move on. Which is about halfway through

Ken
>>158203251

BEE is a great critic of film, television and literature, but a complete dolt when it comes to political matters. I do remember him saying a few episodes ago that he did not vote for either candidate and is simply a “voyeur” when it comes to politics. That is all well and good..except in politics the policies do matter. That is all politics are: policies. So, if you have no idea what the policies are and are simply basing it on the culture, you are going to come off as an idiot. Can’t wait until future episodes where it’s back to the stuff he does know best and can wax on the pop culture stuff.

Pia Dykert

Americans need to work on their new common narrative of what’s becoming their future. Develop some aesthetics on that. This is mainly a film pod so go bleed on X instead of here. I might be a Brett Bitch, but Ellis brings his perspectives and so does his guests, like many writers I find him more observant and a natural bs detector. Some of his guest are not as elegant or pure in their intention or point of view. Something profoundly has changed on how we humans de code and analyse and contributing as we try to grasp the global tempo and theme of all information of any kind. it’s a lot to handle. All the sign of the times are so many. So instead of arguing I prefer the kind of essays driven conversations Mr Ellis delivers. I Thank you for that.

Billy Vega
>>158077184

Dude he lives in Los Angeles - a part of the US that is not aligned with how world view at all. He should at this point try to move to a different state but he seems to prefer being a contrarian and finding his circle of rich successful types in LA who are closeted Trump supporters so whatever. Considering he framed his move from New York back to LA as a formative time in his life I guess Bret is living out the idea that there are no third acts in American lives or whatever.

FlyingWaffle

Bret's Nouveau-MAGA audience seems very confused as to why "libtards" are still paying to listen to him... Well, let me remind you that he's a gay writer, living in LA, originally talking to his cultural "empire" crowd: Schrader, Bogdanovich, Moby, ... of course the main vibe and audience was Left-Of-Center. 10 years ago I remember recommending the pod to a right-wing friend who loved American Psycho, and he was like "man, I don't think I could take all the Hollywood queer point of view 'shit'... so I'll pass, thanks" How times have changed... or maybe not, heh.

Andy Nowicki
>>158033050

And that's also why Texans and Floridians are moving to California in droves, and not the other way around, right? Oh, wait...

catherine eure

Love this episode and thank god someone like Justine is speaking out

Edi Panta

Whenever Justine is on, Bret never discusses her famous brother, Patrick Batemen, whose name was the inspiration for the main character in American Psycho - which by the way is going to be remade!

Edi Panta
>>158265588

Bret never really nailed down the "empire" stuff, I get it in small doses, like when he's talking about Madonna, but not as a blanket critique on cultural elites.

Matteo Persivale

One would rather not rain on BEE’s gloatfest — that was an impressive ten minute soliloquy— but the idea that “wokeness” would somehow disappear after Trump’s win is demonstrably wrong. Political correctness or whatever you want to call it grew and became more pervasive in academia and beyond exactly during the Reagan years when liberals were out of power. I won’t comment on BEE’s bedrock certainty that Trump’s win will mean more meritocracy. He’s sure as hell demonstrably wrong when he says Trump campaigned on wokeness, he didn’t. He campaigned on grocery prices — a promise he has already walked back but as always this podcast is policy-free, it’s about how BEE feels about stuff which why we’re after all.

Matteo Persivale
>>158203251

Michael J Fox’s sister in Family Ties, a sitcom from the 1980s, a lot of Gen X straight guys had a crush on her

Happyhead
>>158230295

Did you know there’s a specialized service in LA for the extremely wealthy where you can stream any content, literally anything, at any time? Movies not yet released, movies in theatres now, anything ever made that is in digital form. It’s exceedingly expensive

Happyhead
>>158203251

Yes he’s unfortunately fallen into the category of Gen X dudes (Rogan, Musk etc) who got stuck in 2016 and still think everything is woke and full of trigger warnings. The libs have moved on bro. If anything it’s the right that is sensitive now, whining about every little perceived slight. There’s many of them in this thread actually. They’ve spent all this time fighting elites and now they ARE the elite. And much like their hated libs of old, they lash out and cry and pearl clutch at even the slightest sign of opposition. So essentially they have become what they’ve hated all these years. And it’s apparent in podcasts such as this one

Happyhead
>>158077184

He said he was not so seriously considering a move to Montana at one point but “fortunately I still have money” so didn’t have to lol

Happyhead
>>158033050

Rent and home prices in southern Cali, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco: Through the fuckin roof. Rent prices in rural Texas: Dirt cheap, comparatively. Money talks dude those places are still the places people want to live. If they weren’t then those rents wouldn’t be amongst the highest in the nation/world

Happyhead

Maybe Bret and Adam would be less alone in life if they didn’t have seizures every time a black character appeared in a film?

Gnome

It turns out Mallory was the Reaganite of Family Ties, not Michael J Fox. I didn't expect that

Michael Bronspigel
>>158265588

I’ve enjoyed his podcasts since 2014. Instantly hooked by his social critiques of my lame Millennial generation. I’m a classics liberal and I appreciate him more and more as the years go on. Red Scare and BEE are the only podcasts I’m willing to pay for

FlyingWaffle

Let’s hope that “The end of the oppressive WOKE era” doesn’t mean we’ll get significantly fewer black guests on the pod and black characters in Bret’s books!

FlyingWaffle

Justine Bateman: “nothing significant happened in the last 15 years”… what about fracking, clean™ coal, and the Trump covid vaccines?! :_D

FlyingWaffle

Those two old farts wondering why TV is now shovelware for secondary screens should check The Video Games Awards… you know, the “thing” that was invented when they were teens, ignored, and is now twice as big as the entire movie industry…

Wah

Love JB's technical critiques of videos on X.

Erick

What would a pod with BEE AND Douglas Murray be like? Title of pod reminded me

Happyhead
>>158452671

Um, you’re forgetting the black guy that tried to hold the door open for Patrick Bateman (he pulled a knife on him and called him the N word)

N.M. Janice.
>>158456621

I get that it's a bigger industry, but that doesn't really do a lot for me. Video games are not the same thing as movies. It's like comparing comic books to novels. I get that they are both visual entertainment, but they don't do the same things.

Erick
>>158118707

Bret does what he wants I don't know if you listened to the episode but he doesn't care what we think. It's whatever interests him and he voices things that interest him. So keep crying I guess but Bret don't care

FlyingWaffle

Talking about policies vs culture, I've created a GoFundMe to get Bret as big a stash of 'poppers' as possible before RFK Jr starts running DHHS.

FlyingWaffle

When Justine Bateman brought up the lesson learned from the incredible success of TOP GUN MAVERICK as a victory against "oppressive Woke Hollywood", she meant to be brave by not bringing back aging and overweight boomer butches like Kelly McGillis in your billion-dollar franchise reboots!

FlyingWaffle
>>158456621

Yea, I don't mean at a personal level, I just mean where things are in the culture. It's just like TikTok, I don't use it and never would, but about 1/3 of the country does.

Keith campbell
>>158453623

I would say that was a more narrow reference to “the culture”. Fashion, music, the way people live kind of went into stasis after the iPhone. The creative milieu of movie people hasn’t changed the way it would have from day 1960-75 or 1985-2000. Bret made an unintentionally funny comment at the start of this pod - “you have come to the wrong place for a policy discussion”. I similarly found this podcast unintentionally informative. For LA creatives, woke vs pre woke is the whole world and Trump is only important in that frame. Fracking, tariffs, China, Russia, whatever Peter Thiel is trying to achieve .. you might as well be speaking Chinese to Bret and Justine

D Michael Hardy

I'm sorry, I just can't listen to this episode anymore. They like to keep asking "how did the left get like this?" and yet refuse to ask "how did the right get so bad?" Stop thinking it's only the left that is poisonous and detrimental to the country.

MisterBlasty

Props to the reference to EXTRAORDINARY POPULAR DELUSIONS AND THE MADNESS OF CROWDS Douglas Murray updated this idea recently with his own book THE MADNESS OF CROWDS. As a younger 1974 Gen Xer, I love listening to this as my own intellectual journey is very similar to both Bret and Justine. As the libertarian in here who was more liberal in my youth, there has been something very wrong with our society over the past decade. It brings me great joy knowing that there are others who see the craziness and understand that there is something seriously wrong with our present day. Awesome interview

Louis
>>158341287

"Kamala is for they/ them. Trump is for you." That is decidedly, campaigning on wokeness.

Louis

I love Justine Bateman. I love anyone who is willing to tell the truth when it will get them attacked by their industry.

Andy Nowicki
>>158033050

I'm sure drug addicts and schizophrenics camping out in the streets en masse, soaring crime rates, stores getting routinely looted (with police hamstrung from arresting said looters), and other trends largely acknowledged to be undesirable have no bearing whatsoever on the fact that millions are saying sayanora to the Left Coast...Sure cost of living is obscenely high, but the cities are also shitty (literally and figuratively). Why spend a fortune to live in a hellish dystopia?

Marko Mancic

Left: Totally cool with sponsoring mass homelessness, legalizing urban crime, 87 fake prosecutions of a political opponent, encouraging assassination, censoring dissent, imprisoning peaceful protestors, starting world wars, installing a senile president, running a cackling nincompoop, and inflation… But what do you think of the Eagles?

Samer Akl

I’m so bored of this kind of talk. It’s been the same spiel since 2014. BORED.

S R

I remember one of the first times watching family ties and seeing Justine Bateman and thinking… “boy.. I wonder if she has a brother ?”

Coats & Ties

…a lot of people in the comments suffer from cognitive dissonance.

Coats & Ties

This episode was a huge breath of fresh air.

Sodaheiress

The best thing about Bret is that he doesn’t care what anyone thinks and doesn’t make his art for anyone but himself.