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S9E13: Writing About Atlantis with Blake Bailey (Patreon)

Published:
2025-04-01 03:16:37
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Author Blake Bailey and Bret discuss the murky personal history of John Cheever, mourning an aimless sibling's canceled life and the quaint cultural hub of a small southwestern town. Part 2 of 2.

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Comments

Steve

Me Too movement was a type of mass hysteria.

K B

I loved both of these episodes, thank you for not giving a shit what people think. They are conventional and it’s often horrifying to discover. Fascinating glimpse behind the scenes of politics in art. P.S. I married a communist is one of the best book titles I’ve ever heard.

Happyhead

8th graders, dude

Nick

Great episode!

Nick
>>169755124

This you, Andy? "Andy Nowicki is a writer, speaker, prophet, seer, revelator, gigolo, assassin, and empath. "

Scott

Excellent episode. I’ve been a huge fan of Bailey’s biographies for years. Felt like no one had ever heard of him but me. Great to see him getting the credit he deserves. Thank you, Bret, for your constant adherence to fairness and truth. Bailey’s Richard Yates bio is one of the best books I’ve ever read. I’ve read it three times! HIGHLY recommend.

Kathy Oldenburg

I loved his answer to the Eagles question.

Iain

What a great episode. Brilliant listen. I’m going to have to check out Blake’s biographies. Plus I need to read more Roth, Sabbath’s Theatre - which I loved, is my only one to date. That James Salter book sounds fantastic too. Great guest.

Darren Ankenman

I’d definitely say it now or anytime - Salter is amazing….the best of the best. Can’t wait for this biography.

Mikael Pawlo

Chilling, but great episode. Someone should follow up on *all* the cancelled people. Some most definately deserved it, some probably did not. Would make a great podcast series. Adam - do it!

Collin Myers

bought the cheever bio and cant wait to check it out. we all probably recall him being known for "the swimmer" but "goodbye my brother" is one of the best short stories i think i've ever read

Ryan Peck

Interesting how Bret mentions David Foster Wallace (alongside Jeffrey Eugenides) as among the last of the Great American Novelists, given past differences between Bret and Wallace. I just started reading Wallace’s posthumous 2012 collection of essays, Both Flesh and Not and after I’m done with that, I plan to start reading Wallace’s short stories (maybe one day, I’ll take a crack at Infinite Jest, but no guarantees). From the three essays of his I’ve read so far, the guy was clearly an intellectual and his sense of humor also shows, but he can also be a little too dense and all the footnotes can be too much at times. Footnotes are sometimes justifiable in certain contexts, but too many can really kill reading momentum.

Ryan Peck
>>169944453

I’ve found Bret’s, Jay McInerney’s (I’ve only read Bright Lights, Big City so far, planning to read Story of My Life sometime next month), and Joan Didion’s works to be easier to comprehend/digest, but everyone’s got their own unique voice/style and I’m not averse to challenging myself.

Matteo Persivale

I find it astonishing that BB said "no one reads Cheever" and that no one reads Salter either, one wonders what the hell do Americans read now, besides Rebecca Yarros.

Collin Myers
>>169944453

i read infinite jest and some of foster wallace's essays and feel confident telling you he was far more effective as a humorist/nonfiction writer than he was a fiction writer. his fiction is...experimental and challenging and ultimately exhausting. not the reason i read books. i think his best writing is the infamous cruise ship essay "a supposedly fun thing i'll never do again." i have no desire to read novels so i can put on my hipster thinking cap and pretend im scholarly and interesting. i tend to largely agree with BEE's assessments of wallace.

Ryan Peck
>>169944453

I haven’t read any of Wallace’s fiction yet, but I already can see how one can see him as a better essayist/journalist than fiction writer. Footnotes are more justifiable in nonfiction, my understanding is that he also uses them in his fiction.

Billy Vega

This is a rare case where I have 'out-read' Bret so to speak in having read all the Bailey biogs. Yates one was the best and in some ways I think the Roth one was the worst. I do think some of the critique of the book was correct in the sense he maybe looked up to Roth more than all the other subjects but part of that was just the way it was written with all the access to Roth while still alive. I think the Roth one was also the most...different. All the other ones was a focus on guys who were deeply tortured and basically messed up. Roth was such a huge sucess it just had a different tone. Blake was almost becoming a biographer of misfits. Maybe the lesson here is he flew too close to the sun with chasing the huge scoop that is the Roth biog. Having said that, I had read every Roth book so reading it was an incredibly enjoyable experience. Anyway, I just wish the pod was more a deep dive on the books of these guys and also...how does someone even make money when cancelled to this enormous level? How do you pay rent? I kinda wish he went a bit into that.

Harry G
>>169944453

Infinite jest is worth a read. Believe it or not I’ve read it twice. Although I had NOTHING going on at all when I read it. Very funny bizarre book. I know it’s one of those love it or hate it it books. Or maybe that’s just Wallace in general.

john m

This is the best episode. Outstanding.

Jessyca Estrada

This is a case of ‘trust the art not the artist’ . Some people just sound like d-bags

Ryan Peck
>>169944453

I plan on reading Story of My Life first since that’s where the Alison Poole character makes her debut. Bret also wrote her into American Psycho and Glamorama.

Von Wintermarck

Just watched the final episode of White Lotus season 3. Mike White is a genius and Bret needs to interview him - like this if you want to hear that show!

Gnome
>>170414349

Ach cmon, the third series was dreck, it was almost a Mad magazine parody of the first two.

Vin Bravo

Such a great guest and episode. Bret allowed him a lot of runway - great work Bret. Best overall in past 12 months

Von Wintermarck
>>170414349

Thanks for answering, Gnome. Looks like everyone hated it! I thought it was a work of art, can't stop thinking about it. And to me it seemed like the exact opposite of parody - playing everything for cheap laughs. Instead it felt dark, slow-moving, and fatalistic, like greek tragedy or film noir. Anyway I'll shut up about it, since it's obvious no-one cares!

Gnome
>>170414349

I cared enough to reply I suppose, ha. As long as you enjoyed it, that's the main thing. Only God Forgives and The Counsellor are two of my favourite films and almost everyone thinks they are irredeemably pretentious crap so we all have our own crosses to bear.

Seneca Garcia

As a former substitute teacher, Regaling the first line of Lolita to an 8th grade class is wild—the things this guy allows for himself, it’s no wonder he got himself in trouble.

Happyhead
>>169984275

I wondered that too. He said most of his money went to lawyers in the aftermath of the scandal, a divorce lawyer and a criminal lawyer. I guess maybe at one point there were charges on the table? Then he explicitly states that he isn't going to make any money off Skyhorse. I'm sure the academic world has closed its doors, same with any grants. So how does dude have money is he working nights stocking shelves at Walmart?

David

Great episode.

Liska

I really appreciate Bret bringing on interesting guests and not just easy ones or ones with something to pitch.

++MAX++

I don't know enough about the accusations against this guy to have a proper opinion either way, but I will say that every time he used the phrase 'douchey-louchey' I wanted to beat him to death with one of his doorstops.

Dan Smith

Great ep. Blake was an excellent contributor.