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The B.E.E. Podcast - 7/12/18 - Art Tavana - SILVER (Patreon)

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2018-07-12 19:14:01
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2026-06
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Content

Journalist Art Tavana and Bret Easton Ellis discuss navigating controversy generated by your writing, the perils of emotional journalism, Rachel Maddow as intelligent explainer and Kim Kardashian as prison reform activist.

Comments

Raymond Cummings

Still listening, maybe 30 minutes in, and no doubt once we get beyond the present rant there will be brilliance. But I need to share what I posted on Facebook a few minutes ago. For context, I am a 41 year old African-American who has been a dedicated fan of yours since I was a teenager. (Yes, I own The Canyons on DVD; yes, I saw every episode of your web series more than once.) "Bret, I’m a fan, and always will be. But I miss the days when this podcast was consistently more about art and media, and less about politics. Your politics are getting tiresome, and they’re revealing you as the opposite of the person you described yourself as when you started this podcast: someone unaffected and unaltered by social media, someone unruffled. You’re endlessly ruffled. The cold, clinical examination of movies, books, TV, and music is wonderful and is why I have always been happy to fund these podcasts in lieu of novels. But - and I hate to say this - it’s becoming harder to defend you, and to stomach your perspective on a political world you (mostly) don’t participate in. Some of the people who support you have to actually live and survive in this world."

Luke

I want to just give you a hug after that perfectly crafted monologue. The calming voice of rationale and basic common sense.

David Eugene

Raymond, I live in this world. Survival? What exactly is it that you are surviving? If you live in the US, it’s easy to survive. Now if you want to excel at life, that is a little harder but still very very doable if you(in general) take the initiative . Obviously I know nothing about except that you seem to feel you are a victim of the world and that you have to survive. I don’t know if you are including yourself in the “some of the people that support you” crowd, but if you are trying to speak for the rest of the group, (which I am a part of as a supporter) then I have to ask... who made you our speaker? Also, what context does your age and race bring to your perspective? How are you any different than I?

Erick

This pod deserves awards

Jared gordon

Man, this guest loves the “I’m not mad, I actually think it’s funny” response.

Calum Hughes

In my opinion the walkaway hashtag just seems like yet another product of the widespread outrage culture. It's Bret's podcast and he's free to talk politics or whatever he wants but to get triggered consistently by the left's actions when both sides are acting like assholes just seems to me hypocritical to the apolitical centrist attitude Bret says he has.

Luke Espin

Bret and Kanye collaborating again? On a movie? My week has been made.

M. Nero Nava

Raymond, thank you for your post. I completely agree. I also think the left is way overboard, and laugh at BEE’s swipes at “snowflakes”. And, I think people like Kanye should be allowed to have dumb opinions and share them freely.

M. Nero Nava

Also, Kanye’s record is pronounced “yay”. Not “yee”.

Marian Berges

Raymond--I have to agree with you, and you made wonderful points. I've loved Bret's novels and podcast, but, as someone on the "left" who is "doing something" and who believes in "civility" it's hard to listen to him go on about the "hysterical left" for thirty minutes. Maybe ten? I think I could have taken ten. He has every right to do so, of course. He can go on for hours about those hair brained blue bubble dwellers. But it

Marian Berges

It's tough to listen if you count yourself as one of them.

Kade Drury

The player in the app is trash. Needs to be fixed

Casey

I'm a millennial socialist, though unlike Bret's boyfriend, I would say I do enjoy hearing Bret's take on things, and even find myself in sympathy with some of his positions, particularly regarding the tiresome joke known as 'The Resistance.' My _only_ real issue, and it's a big one, is that Bret too often conflates 'the left' with what are really centrist (or center-right) liberals. Many of us on the left agree wholeheartedly that the hysteria around Russian collusion and election fixing has far more to do with a fantasy that explains Clinton's loss in a manner that leaves her campaign, and her neoliberal politics, without fault, and the election _not_ lost fair and square (as I more or less believe), but robbed. That having been said, some of the same hysterics appear in genuine leftist discourse as well, not just that of liberals, and bugs the shit out of me as well (electorally as well as stylistically, I think they are a total dead end). But in summary, I would love it if Bret made more of an effort to distinguish between the neolib Democratic Party (may it please perish one day soon) and the burgeoning socialist (or at least social democratic) left embodied by organizations like the DSA, young upstarts like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and the (gasp!) old white man who truly got this latest leftward move started: Bernie Sanders. Thanks for the show!

Senseless

I don't know what y'all raging against. I knew exactly what I was signing up for by becoming a Patreon supporter. I could be wrong, but it seems pretty clear to me that Bret creates this podcast more to get his thoughts out there and create conversations around topics that interest him - and I enjoy the shit out of it. If you're looking for a podcaster that panders, there are plenty out there. I' resonate with all of this, and have been growing increasingly vocal in my frustration - even though doing so in the past has lost me "friends" and opportunities. I'm sick of the hysteria as well. These things need to be talked about out in the open instead of over dinner tables in hushed tones. Also, Art Tavana was a great guest. Thanks for another fantastic listen!

Louis Bruno
>>13796600

Agree. The Democrats have lost their way. I #walkedaway at just the right time. The liberal experiment is over.

Louis Bruno

I enjoyed listening to this too. Your insights provide a clear head to what the mainstream media is saying. Sometimes saying the truth means you are ignored, but at least you can always say you were the one opposing the fury. But even so, I would like to hear what you thought of Sicario 2, because I remember Bret not liking the first one with Emily Blunt in it. Anyways, still enjoy your discussions and your thoughts on the current culture of the left and their ridiculousness.

Sb

Bret is a genius. All he was trying to do in this episode was illustrate how whiny and annoying the Left had become by being whiny and annoying himself. Thanks for the dragon energy, Bret!

Chuck

As he has said he would much rather talk about movies, music, and many other aspects of the culture but I think like a lot of us, Bret is tired of politics inserted itself into so much of it. How do you even talk about popular movies when so much of it is ideology driven? I do like hearing Bret tell us what he thinks just like Kanye and not have to hide behind the walls of identity politics. I guess I just see too many huffpo type articles and so little push back that I’m happy to hear some authentic takes. But I’m sure he won’t just talk politics on every pod but like he said in the monologue, there’s wasn’t any movies he saw that he wanted to talk about. The last few pods were great and I really enjoyed this one as well. Great interview and monologue.

Oleg

great as always.

cerberus23

Fan of the podcast, but I have to agree: Bret is out of his depth politically. It's one thing to talk about the "hysterics" of people critical of Trump, but if you don't even mention a single policy or action that people detest and are terrified of, leading them to hysterics, then you're not really engaging in an honest way. He still talks about Trump the way people did pre-election: "he may be an asshole, but he'll shake things up, he can't be THAT bad." Instead, we have a dumb cipher for all of the worst conservative fantasies: massive re-distribution of wealth in the tax cut, SCOTUS picks that favor corporations (which he so claims to hate) over workers and gutting of civil liberties for potentially a generation, fear-mongering of the most vulnerable. He discusses Trump as if there are no consequences, other than rich liberals having panic attacks over $500 salads. I get the ideology and art discussion, but if he really wants to wade into the political waters, he needs to up his game a little.

cerberus23
>>13809032

Even now just listening to him discuss the left as a "raging blue bubble". What about the raging red bubble of the suburbs, of the birthers, of the "git out of our country" MAGA hat wearers who have never interacted with a Mexican in their life? I get that he's probably surrounded by yoga mat-toting morons who voted for Hillary but have never thought about politics until November 2016, but, come on man, have a little perspective.

Jason

"You mad, bro?" the podcast

Mai Tai

Bret you should take a vacation. It seems like you are living in a toxic environment. The podcast has become unlistenable with this episode. Didn’t make it through the “#walkaway” section. Slowly but surely this shit has taken the place of discussions about art on this podcast and it’s a bummer. Just a concerned fan.

David Eugene
>>13809032

Ben you totally miss the point about the wall on the border... it is to keep out illegal immigrants regardless of their nationality (most of them are not Mexican btw). And nice stereotyping of the MAGA hat wearers.

David Eugene
>>13810791

HAHA! Tyler is doing EXACTLY what BEE talks about people doing to Kanye, saying he "must be off his meds." This "just a concerned fan" crap is a tactic the left uses ALL THE TIME, to cast people they disagree with as "crazy". Telling BEE that "seems like he is living in a toxic environment". This concern trolling has no place here.

Gatsby
>>13789408

Agreed. Bret lacks the thorough research to have a thirty plus minute discussion concerning politics (outside of politics in the entertainment industry). And more importantly, you have to at least come from a place of wanting to better the world. We can completely disagree on everything from economics to law but as long as we're on the same page of sincerely wanting to help others, I can listen to that person and try to understand them better. I can't however, listen to someone who spews the same toxic hate they accuse other people of doing and views politics as nothing more than aesthetics. If you start The Bret Easton Ellis from the very beginning to the recent episode, you can actually hear Bret's descent from apolitical to apathy to increasing nihilism. Like you, I'm a huge fan of Bret of both his novels and podcasts. And I have no problem with a well constructed conservative ("nonpartisian") viewpoint. After all, I still have some conservative friends. But just bashing liberals for the sheer sake of it is both tiring and more importantly, hypocritical. Also, the walkaway movement is dumb. If you give up your beliefs and values because of a few annoying people then did you really believe in those values to begin with?

David Martignetti

The podcast was political but not partisan. The guy is a liberal but he doesn’t buy Into the outrage culture and bullying.

MidRangeG
>>13810791

He could be just saying he's bored of the politically fueled cultural commentary/gossiping. Albeit a little dramatically.

ben worsham

I like the contrarian view. I live in the south. Around here the conservatives act like victims. It's nauseating. I imagine the Cali liberals are just as bad. I think Art Tavana is right. Stroke Trumps ego and liberals can probably get some stuff done.

Jason ford

No one likes unwanted truths. I think it is now more interesting to examine the mental landscapes that produce so much desire for hysterics in the first place. As a white straight male, I now have to constantly guard against the comforts of victimhood. What happened to our mental landscape that brought us to this point? If anything there is less suffering in the world than at any other point in human history and yet we all feel the need to bare the heavy burden of being offended on someone else’s behalf, or very publicly fighting our personal fight for historic and ground breaking freedom. I am just going to say it: even though the future IS getting better all the time, I miss the past.

Peter

Plenty of hysteria on the right. Alex Jones anybody? You guys won calm down!

Graeme

Great pod. As a liberal, I really enjoyed the political chat on this episode.

Harrison Bergeron

Bret, do not be discouraged by some of the humorless, dull, moralizing screeds in these comments. People will say "don't talk so much politics." Have they been listening to your show? You talk about culture. Culture has been DEVOURED by politics, so you (like me) have been reluctantly dragged into the politicization of everything. What people are really saying here is "don't talk about politics this way." Countless Hollywood people are talking very publicly, and very foolishly, about politics. You alone are critiquing their hypocrisy and incoherence from the inside. What stands out about your voice is not that it sounds like everyone else who is talking about politics, but that it sounds like absolutely no one in the cultural commentariet. Literally, no one. It's shocking. All the bad boys have quietly taken the knee and just said "it's not worth it." I can feel listening to your podcast that you are simply saying "screw it, I can't take it anymore, I'm just gonna say this." And you do say it. Pointedly, and eloquently, and with a good soundtrack. This podcast is the best cultural writing about Hollywood and pop culture right now. It's good because you work for yourself and your readers, not the cowards at the Hollywood Reporter or Variety, or the castrated corpse of Deadline Hollywood. Do exactly what you want, how you want to do it. I'll be there to listen or read it, and I know I won't be the only one. Don't disappear here.

Sebastian ospina

Huge fan as well, and I do have a problem with SJW culture, but listening to you I can’t help but think that you are acting in your podcasts exactly the way you accuse the left of being: Immature and slightly unhinged. You had James Van der beek on and talked over him and ranged about snowflakes to the point where he just decided to change the subject because it was obvious that you were just wanting him to agree with you...sort of like the echo chamber that today’s episode was...by the way, yes Obama put families in cages, but it didn’t separate ALL families and send the kids thousands of miles away resulting in UNNECESSARY EXPENSES TO THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER. Anyway, still a fan but maybe you should watch more of the news you so decry...or read the headlines in The Hill...why not mention Republican hypocrisy about when Obama wanted to meet with North Korea and was accused of bowing to dictators? Sad that you can’t be objective as well - from a centrist.

M. Nero Nava

Also, that Tavana dweeb conceding that Rachel Maddow *is* in fact intelligent. This dude writes about pro wrestling, juggalos, and an artless LA music scene. Okay, dude. I’m so disappointed in how humorless, plain dumb, and bad this episode was/is. It’s staggering. I think BEE lost his way. Can we talk about movies and art, and have interesting guests? These two retards were complaining that people aren’t being respectful to Sarah Huckabee Sanders! What the fuck is happening?! Who gives a fuck?!

Chadwick Hartwell, III
>>13809032

@BretEastonEllis -- until you up your political perspective game up to Ben Schmidt's satisfaction, please refrain from having an impressionistic take of the current political climate. :P

Chadwick Hartwell, III

I am an unequivocal fan of Bret Easton Ellis, whether or not I agree with his opinions or not. That's what being an adult is about. I like the way Bret thinks (I also find his voice and manner and culture calming, FWIW). I don't agree with Bret on Pose or even Atlanta, but I still really enjoying hearing the way he expresses his opinion and himself, and, often, I learn something. Often I get a perspective I don't often get. I see a lot of people on here crying and wailing and bemoaning Bret's point of view, basically, because they completely disagree with him. Our cultural climate, where everything gets deconstructed into polarities of '1' and '0', '+' and '-', and 'Good' and 'Absolute Hitlerian Evil', is the problem. I don't blame any of you either. I grew up in it and was a part of it. You think it's all personal, it's all an affront to your existence, you can't fathom anyone disagreeing with you or having a marginally different POV. Well, tough. Life isn't fair. You don't always get what you want. Grow the fuck up, people. Let Bret be Bret. Stop with the 'ohh, bret, i love you, but u sound teh dumb cuz i no agree with u on trump not being hitler. pleeze stop triggerin me or i stop listening. wokez'

Gatsby
>>13835143

I don't think anyone on here was "crying" or "wailing". Criticism isn't the same as demonizing. If people were demonizing Bret, they'd be attacking his character and using tactics such as the straw man. Instead, most of the discussion praised Bret but criticized (again, key word "criticize") him for not having enough knowledge to dive into a controversial subject for that long. It's good to have a nuanced view and to not view everything as an absolute. But I don't think most of Bret's ranting (aside from Kanye and Terry) was nuanced or informed. And for all of the talk about lumping things into a zero sum game, you seem to lump everyone who didn't like the podcast as some kind of "woke", "triggered", (insert pejorative). I understand it's his podcast and he can say what he wants. On the same token, I can criticize the podcast in the same way that if I paid for a movie, I could criticize the film while respecting the director's artistic freedom and enjoy the director's previous/future works.

Eddie Enciu

Really curious how Bret and others say to “walk away” from the resistance movement as if it’s a losing strategy when it worked out very well for Obama’s resistance; the tea party and the birther movement (led by Donald Trump himself)? I mean look where they’re at now.

Paul b

Now Trump mania has even infiltrated this podcast. That would be fine if there was a unique angle on the discussion through reference to movies or books, for example Stacy Titles excellent The Last Supper. But instead it was just more of the water cooler discussion you get all day.

Andrew Dunn

RANDOM QUESTION: I'm not sure how many time you get asked this now, Bret, but is the Golden Suicides screenplay project completely dead? I remember you talking about it on the Gus Van Sant episode a few years ago but I've heard nothing of it since then so I was curious.

cerberus23
>>13809032

Uh yeah, "try sounding less like a repetitive dullard" is generally good advice for anybody speaking on any topic.

David Eugene
>>13832302

Seems people can't give a compliment without a "but..." attached. Bret has said it is ok to disagree with him. He will not banish you like the left does to anyone that disagrees with them. Obviously you are a huge fan because you are paying him to listen to this podcast.

John Plante

Looove BEE. His guests, though? Not so much.

Alex Vuocolo

I feel like a lot of BEE's animosity towards liberals is based on his high exposure to the L.A. and Twitter variations of Democratic politics. I don't blame him. A lot of that stuff is disingenuous and performative. That being said, he really lost me this week with the appeals to political unity and even patriotism. Outrage and even a little tribalism are necessary to taking political power. We need people who are mad and committed to social change. What's happening with ICE, police violence, housing affordability, wage stagnation, etc. warrants that.

Jeff Austin

Alex, if your comments were satire, then you are brilliant. If not, then you've just wasted an hour of your life because you obviously "listened" but did not hear what BEE was saying. Lighten up, vote, and then binge watch Broadchurch an all will be fine.

Nathan Williams

Looking on from the UK it's obvious that Americans have always been voting for Trump. That is to say, they have always been voting for American exceptionalism whoever expresses it best in the moment. Trump is not a huge departure from Obama, and the next President won't be a huge departure from Trump.

Dave

Great to have BEE back podcasting. His observations on art, politics, and the culture continue to set the bar. I’ll leave at that for now. :-)

David

Could not relate to this episode. Not understanding how Sky Ferreira-as-Trump-analogy makes a worthy topic and while I lasted one hour I couldn’t reach the end. Had to #walkaway. Author said he didn’t read his own press then referenced his press three times. OMG.

Mark Cleary

Can you give us your thoughts on the original Suspiria and the new one when it comes out? Any expectations or even care about the new Halloween?

Mark Cleary

How can you NOT be outraged and repulsed by Trump, ESPECIALLY on an aesthetic level? I thought you Americans were crazy voting W in twice but this Trump thing is really inexcusable.

Michael kisselgof

Regarding “identity politics,” here is where Brett is blasé. One side predominantly reject basic science. The other side does’t. If your reject basic science, then you are a proponent of societal refression in IQ and advancement in any scientific field. So if one day you do choose to pick a side, hopefully its the one that has the foundation in science.

Jasper

Art Tavana suggesting celebrities to use their very celebrity to meet with the president in order to get things done politically. Best from Holland, the capital of Amsterdam.

Brent L. Smith
>>13795637

thank you for bringing up neo-liberalism! the left simply isn’t “the left” and ppl need to know this before slinging mud.

D
>>13789408

Agreed, this one was an endurance test. I feel a dirtiness akin to when my curiosity tempts me into watching a Milo Yiannopolis video. I used to enjoy the Bret-induced soul soiling.

Chris Wright

This podcast entirely changed my view of Trump, which I will be eternally grateful for.

mark Hayhow

Wtf dude i’m 39 min riding a hysterical rant..get well soon