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S6E11: The Many Gifts of Tender Shlomo with Jerry Stahl (Patreon)

Published:
2022-08-08 23:29:24
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2026-06
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Content

Jerry Stahl returns to the podcast to discuss touring Nazi death camps with strangers in Europe and the non-stop hijinks that promptly ensued. Bret and Jerry also talk about the raw horror of The Mill on the Floss and the slow motion suicide of heroin addiction. Part 1 of 2. 

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Comments

Patrick

Nothing better than a writer talking to a writer podcast. 🙌

PETER GREER

Great episode thank you both…

Harold B

You could say the episode went really LEFT towards the end. Competency in one area (writing) does not give you competency in another I wish entertainers would stop thinking of themselves as political sages and accept that they really don’t know enough about how the real world works to lecture us. No surprise they prefer to live in their own imaginations since it’s part of their livelihood to do so but come on. Leave the political musings to the people who put in the time to fully understand it.

M. Nero Nava

Not much better than hearing BEE talk writing and publishing with a fellow writer. In 8th grade, I discovered the audiobook of E Tu, Babe by Mark Leyner—an eye opening and mind expanding experience. I didn’t know if it was serious or hilarious. It was so weird. I dug those books he did with the doctor; Why Do Men Have Nipples or whatever. Great pod, I’m getting my moneys worth.

Bookth

I just could not possibly have enjoyed this more. Stahl should come back every season. Now they're moving to weekly episodes, it would be a lot of fun to have some semi-regulars on the show. I'd add recent guest Stephanie Danler to that list as well - it felt like she and Bret could have talked for hours without running out of cool shit to say.

Normaling

The fact that Stahl is a Flannery O’Connor fan makes perfect sense

bpvalentine

I'm reading a book by Jenette McCurdy called I'm Glad My Mom Died. Best title since I Hate the Internet? I think so. I'd love if the fellas had Jenette on the show. She has a serious flair for storytelling despite having made her name as an actor thus far.

BrienPiechos

Where on earth do evil racist right wing White supremacist insurrectionists get these ideas? Oh.... yea. All one has to do is take a look around to see the 1 to 1 comparison with current America and Weimar Germany.

BrienPiechos
>>89274485

He knows exactly what he's doing. Had the recording stopped he would have said awful things about all the people on that tour, specifically for the crime of being White, and ended up right back at the same place wondering why antisemitism is on the rise.

Brian Rooney

“Why, oh why must one grow up, why must one inherit this heavy, numbing responsibility of living an undiscovered life? Out of the nothingness and the undifferentiated mass, to make something of herself! But what? In the obscurity and pathlessness to take a direction! But whither? How take even one step? And yet, how stand still? This was torment indeed, to inherit the responsibility of one’s own life.” DH Lawrence’s The Rainbow “She felt detached from her family, and thought it strange how they had lavished so much attention on her, as a child, and then at some appointed, prearranged time they seemed to stop the flow of affection and being the expectations - as if, for a brief phrase, you were expected to absorb love (and get enough), and then, for a much longer and more serious phase, you were expected to fulfill certain obligations.” John Irving’s The World According to Garp There is good writing. It’s just not celebrated. Nothing is celebrated because the phone is the medium. And if the phone is the medium then imagery and being a moron is all that matters. Read Postman’s Amusing Ourselves to Death. 🤷‍♂️ ☮️

R. M.

Great conversation. Bret, check out John Bellairs for YA. He wrote gothic New England mystery fiction. As a kid I used to order his books from school via the monthly Scholastic book flyer and devour them in a single day and I still enjoy his writing as an adult. His books in the 80's were illustrated by Edward Gorey which gave them an iconic gothic aesthetic to go with the excellent stories. Eli Roth made Bellair's THE HOUSE WITH THE CLOCK IN IT'S WALLS into a film.

Charles Golding

Stahl was good and I want to read more of his work. He does have rabid TDS or whatever the afterbirth of it is though. He went from speaking eloquently about art and writing and transitioned into sub junior high level political sophistry. He became the same kind of clueless bubble dweller Bret lambasted in white. I understand the new Bret doesn't have the patience to debate people on stuff like this, but it makes me appreciate liberals like James Kirchick, who have actually learned stuff and done some self-reflection since 2016. Stahl invoked a rallying cry against a common enemy, in his vision of the country -- the very thing he fears in terms of "rising fascism".

N.M. Janice.
>>89379251

Yeah. This is a great interview, and Stahl is definitely a smart and interesting guy, but that political tirade was cringey. He sounded like an angry college freshman. I too despise Trump, and I know that we have serious problems in this country, but it seems like most thoughtful adult liberal minded people have moved away from these reactionary narratives and have embraced a more nuanced conversation about what is happening.

James Wright

You two are so fantastic together. Jerry should be your permanent co-host.

Collin Myers

great episode. could listen to these guys go back and forth all day. happy subscriber. cant wait until next wednesday. cant wait for shards the hardcover. mill on the floss scares the shit out of me--was supposed to read it in college and i just did all sparknotes and cheated and now i feel like a huge fuck up

Peter Guzzo

Another great episode. Writers really do make the best guests.

Christopher Ward

I cannot cannot CANNOT for the life of me grasp how supposedly intelligent people can think that Trump is some kind of unique singular evil - let alone some kind of “fascist”. It’s hyperbole and not befitting of people who I don’t doubt have a brain in their somewhere. I get why Trump triggered so many liberal women in Westchester and young girls with bullrings, but men, actual men, like Jerry Stahl? Baffling.

Michael Bronspigel
>>89410893

Most folks don't realize they are in a cult. In Stahl's defense, he and every other citizen are being gas lit from EVERY direction by the media and government. He hasn't met enough Shlomos or other Jewish people like me to red pill him properly. I bet Stahl would feel a lot less depressed if he stops playing mental gymnastics for his beloved Blue Team. I don't have any political team, so I have nobody to apologize for and it keeps my conscience clear.

NiceNeverKnowingU

I was with Stahl until about the last 10 minutes of the pod. Seemingly intelligent people just start to sound like absolute buffoons when they get on a roll whining about Trump. Lol gosh it’s so stupid and I can’t figure it out for the life of me. I, like Bret don’t really care about Trump either way, but the amount of brain rot that otherwise interesting people exhibit when discussing him makes me feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone at times. TDS is just so low iq and unattractive. It’s truly unfortunate. Sad!

Knokkel knokkel

6 mill Jews killed in ww2! What about the 231 million children that have died from malnutrition in 77 years? Where is Stahl bleeding 🩸 Jew heart for them?

Thomas Edwards

Interesting guest. A tad heavy on the anti-semitism in America shtick. Being Jewish is generally a fillip in show business, media, science, medicine, academia, Silicone Valley, Wall Street yada yada. The veiled use of the pejorative term 'gentile' (viz yok) was unfortunate.

Thomas Edwards
>>89453272

Thought of the Japanese civilians at the Hiroshima and Nagasaki nuclear infernos, as the 77 year anniversary came and went this week. The finalists in the tournament of human suffering are many.

Morgan Hobbs

Always happy to see Jerry Stahl on the program, one of the best humorists in the quality lit game, and good in a room to boot. Can’t get enough of those shout outs to brilliant comic writers like Stanley Elkin, Bruce Jay Friedman and Mark Leyner. Leyner’s actually published three novels in the last ten years, so he hasn’t quite disappeared.

Phoenix

I could listen to these two all day. He lost me with some of his views on politics at the end, but who cares. Great interview. Please have him back.

Jonathan Davis

I get it. People don't want to read these days. But for someone to say 'why would I want to read a made-up story' are the same people watching fictional tv shows and movies. Odd excuse.

Elizabeth

I love a good Jerry Stahl episode let alone two! Bret, why must you backtrack on your Fox News appearances??? I am a loyal Platinum member of the BEE Pod for the past 3+ years and it’s all because of your appearances on Laura Ingraham’s radio show, Greg Gutfeld’s Pod & Tucker Carlson Tonight. I have since purchased your books along with books of many of your guests. I am a true fan of you and agree with many of your thoughts and musing on movies, music and pop culture. Fox News viewers have a wide range of views and being a guest, promoting your book on that channel is nothing to be embarrassed about…Maybe Jerry should consider the Shlomo’s of the world and realize there is diversity of thought out there and we’re not all watching CNN & MSNBC. Not all Fox News viewers are knuckle dragging, “I’m with stupid” t-shirt wearing rubes. Thinking back to the BJ Novack episode…it would probably serve him well to go on Gutfled…much respect is given to these celebrities who buck the trend and do something unexpected.

Thomas Matich

RIP Anne Heche. Couldn’t help remembering the really great episode with her on the BEE podcast.

D Michael Hardy

Great episode between two of my favorite writers.

LowRes Wünderbred

The M. Night Shyamalan style twist of Stahl having TDS at the end was disappointing. Great episode otherwise.

BrienPiechos
>>89445777

It took you that long? His holier than thou attitude toward anyone who isn't Jewish, including philosemites (aka "allies"), didn't tip you off? The guy reeks of elitism and is condescending about everyone, including Japanese tourists, that don't show his expected level of solemnity and knowledge about the holocaust was the first tell. This in and of itself is hilarious considering the official historical narrative changes constantly and the details I was taught in school are considered fictitious now. He wanted to call those people rubes so badly. Stahl is just a despicable person, and completely lacks self awareness. He's intelligent enough not to come right out and say what he's thinking, but not intelligent enough to realize other people can interpret the thinly veiled code he uses. What a slimebag. I don't know where junkies get off with their self superiority, but they always strike me this way, despite living a life at odds with every virtue imaginable they're superior to everyone else. Being famous FOR being a junkie, now that's even worse. Fuck this guy.

Mara Capozzi

Fantastic! I love Jerry Stahl’s writing and his “voice”both written and spoken. I was sad when this episode ended. Please bring him back! I’m Ordering Nine Nine Nine today.

BUtterfield8

Can anyone find evidence of this supposed quote by Doug Mastriano, PA republican nominee for Gov.? I can't find it and usually these kinds of things (if Stahl's claim is true) are blown up like crazy. Very strange. There is an attempted anti-semitic smear going on of linking Mastriano to the founder of Gab, which is a free speech social media platform. It is pretty weak stuff.

Thomas Matich

Okay so Bret needs to talk about ‘Nope’ it is literally a film about spectacle.

grainpulp

This interview was great, down to earth and cool guy. Looking forward to part two.

NiceNeverKnowingU
>>89445777

Wow Brien, you just read Stahl like a great book on a Sunday afternoon haha! Holy shit! So I agree with pretty much every single word you said here, I just don’t quite have the balls to say it exactly the way you did lmao (you seriously had me dying laughing and rather loudly)! I wouldn’t call Stahl despicable but I 1,000% agree with you about his lack of self awareness and inability to understand the deep depths to which he comes off as incredibly inauthentic and see through. He gives off major slimeball and douchebag energy with very few redeeming qualities to make up for it. But…maybe he’s a better human being in person than he seems to be in this interview. Who knows? All I know is that Bret does the best job in media that I have seen in the past decade or so of never quite showing his hand. Bret has THEE BEST poker face in the business bar none!!!! Of course he probably thought Stahl was being a jackass at certain points during their talk but Bret’s genius is that neither the listener or Stahl himself ever truly knows what he’s thinking. No one does this better than Bret. So yeah Stahl is kind of an incognizant jackass, he’s shallow, seems a bit misguided, and his Trump take was idiotic and cringe, but with all of that being said I’d still have a beer with the guy. I think. Basically I wouldn’t throw him away completely. But kudos to you and your read of Stahl! I am so with you on basically everything you wrote. You literally had me laughing almost hysterically for a few minutes hahah. Hilarious but also insightful!

NiceNeverKnowingU
>>89507603

Facts Elizabeth! So many facts, but Stahl very much operates on the totalitarian intolerant side of the liberal spectrum and I think Bret just didn’t want to rock the boat too much. You say “Not all Fox News viewers are knuckle dragging…” but to Stahl ALL of you are that and much worse. I enjoy Stahl’s art, but when it comes to politics, people like him are hypnotized by something far greater than what we can see with our own eyes. I don’t know if you live in LA but I do and you have to be careful how you move in this city if you’re not in 100% alignment with “The Cathedral.” I had already known of Bret and read 4 of his books but I didn’t know he had a podcast until I saw him on Tucker. I’m not a conservative but I do watch interesting things that I see on Fox News mainly if it pops up on YouTube, never on television though. I saw Bret there and afterwards I read 2 more of his books and was able to listen to every word of The Shards as we came out of the pandemic. So I understand exactly what you’re saying Elizabeth but I also understand why Bret was a little hush about his Fox appearances while having a chat with a rabid progressive. They’re like toddlers who you’re tasked with telling that the tooth fairy doesn’t actually exist. Often whining and a temper tantrum is on the other side of that news so you just let them live in fantasy land a while longer until you absolutely have to tell them.

Billy Schafer
>>89507603

I'm surprised Stahl didn't storm out of the interview when Bret mentioned he promoted White on Tucker.

Elizabeth
>>89507603

You make an excellent point and I hadn’t considered “Bret as host” needing to tiptoe around his guests triggers. I do not live in LA but I do live in a very liberal NJ suburb of NYC…I too need to carefully navigate my opinions especially in my professional life. I guess I view Bret as being so confident that it surprised me to hear him back off a bit. Still a great interview…

kelton water

I love Jerry Stahl. Nein Nein Nein is hilarious and you feel guilty for saying that but it is.