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Something interesting I found (Members Video) (Patreon)

Published:
2023-01-30 23:45:17
Imported:
2026-06
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Hey everyone, I found an interesting little gem that I wanted to share with you guys. Hope you enjoy! 

Also once you watch, what do you think? Coincidence or no?

Thanks again for your support! Roadmap for the next two vids - starting  tomorrow: American vs. Athenian Democracy. After that (which I'm researching somewhat concurrently): Thomas Jefferson & Slavery. Both will in the longer, more heavily cited format.

- Ryan

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Comments

Paul Favour

Wow. That is a very cool factoid. I always had the impression Marx worked on the basis of his own cultural mindset rather than the study of other thinkers like Madison, who in a practical sense, was one of Marx's contemporaries. Marx is underrated as I see it.

rchapman
>>100774487

Thanks! Marx was definitely a product of his culture and was influenced by a lot of thinkers. For example the Prussian culture he came from made a point of trying to include all thought that came before into your own work, and the value/veracity of that work tended to be treated as self-evident. Hegel is probably the biggest embodiment of that. Marx was also heavily influenced by socialist thought of his time, and even wrote one time that only three aspects of his thought were original, and everything else came from other thinkers. I'm trying to find a quote for that but it's buried in my Marx notes.

Lina

I came to the conclusion that most great thinkers based their work / took parts from other great thinkers before them. But in a way, that's how humans have always made progress. Very interesting that Madison saw it less like a fixed role of oppressed and oppressor, but more fluidly meaning power dynamics can shift and aren't tied to any particular group or class. If you look at nature, this makes much more sense. There it is usually a matter of balance between predators and prey, or even between certain bacteria and their host or between plants. What you do not really find in nature is a clear cut "oppressor vs oppressed" dynamic. At least I wouldn't be aware of any.

Jerame

That is a really cool nugget. There is a third option between intentional and coincidence. Marx could have read the quote and not consciously remembered it, but unconsciously held on to the verbiage. I would say this is the most likely as I can't imagine Marx intentionally quoting Madison and as you said they are too similar to make coincidence likely. I'm really looking forward to you work on Jefferson and Slavery. The duality of that has always fascinated me. It's hard to imagine a man who believed what he wrote owning another man. It's always been one of my dream questions to ask a dead. guy.

Shelden

You were right! That. Was. Cool.

Mella

Whether Marx had read Madison or not, it is VERY interesting that they had the same observation. And that they made such different things of it. Maybe it's just a social reality that many of us just never see? Being well-read in history and politics, which I am not, might have helped both of those people see something that I doubt I could, just looking at and reacting to everyday life.

martin warner

My view, Marx would have closely watched the budding culture of America, so, he would have seen the quote by Madison. I can't remember Marx referencing other peoples quotes, but it's a long since I have read Marx. Peace be unto you.

Tim Elston

Very interesting. I have this idea that Madison was influenced by Locke and Marx was influenced by Hegel. If that's true, more or less, it makes me want to know more about how Locke and Hegel might have thought about the mutual oppression, in practical terms. I'm impressed by your ability to tie those two texts together, off the top of your head.

Cameron Miller

A video entitled "Something Interesting I Found" with a picture of someone holding the communist manifesto. I've played enough Paranoia to know where this goes.

Katie Carr

I don’t think it was taken from him. It is very easy to juxtapose rich/poor. Like in Charles Dickens..”It was the best of times….”

Jake Daniel

More than likely it was taken from discourses on (classical) liberalism which was often subject to critique in the middle of the industrial age. Karl Mark was well versed in his studies of classical economics. He even credited Ben Franklin along with Smith for the modern labor theory of value. Many an Intellectual at the time were influenced by the ideologues of the American and French Revolution. As you well know, Marx was inspired by two figures associated with the American, Locke and Smith.

Michael Adcock

Good spot Ryan! It seems likely, but regardless taking a dependent origination lens to it the causal chain can run long, so maybe that is the linkage. BTW, ChatGPT said their was no evidence of a quote, but I'm sure Marx said not to trust OpenAI ;o)

Kelly

Could Karl Marx have read Madison's comments? Were they published and available? I wouldn't say coincidence, but zeitgeist maybe. Nothing against Marx's scholarship, but the likelihood of his having read that source is low.

Ragmar Segundo

Agree with Kelly here about the chance of Marx wading knee deep through recondite tomes in another language. Indeed, there are many "coïncidences" and "discoveries" in the World Below, which illustrate the verse from Ecclesiastes, "there is no new thing under the sun." What has been done or said has been done or said -- often in surprising similitude -- across the ages, by many men in many languages. -- Rgds.

Jordan

I truly enjoy this tidbits of information. Thank you, Ryan!