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A review of Infinity Train. I wanted to like this show so badly, I'm sorry.

NOTE: After uploading this I'm pretty sure that I pronounced Min-Gi's name as "Min-JEE" instead of "Min-GHEE" literally the entire time and I feel like an absolute clown now. My bad.

I wanted to like this show so badly, I'm sorry.

This was a hugely popular request in our last poll for what I should watch and review next. I've heard that Infinity Train is an underrated gem for years. I watched the first season last year with my friend Keen and didn't like it very much, but he assured me it got better as it went on. I was especially excited for Season 3, which everyone told me was incredible.

Here are... my thoughts.

For those who have never seen the show, if you'd like an example of what I'm talking about when I mention my problem with the general dialogue, here's a really solid awkwardly bad exchange that goes on for way too long. Half of the dialogue in this show sounds like it was improvised on the spot by actors doing a dramatic long-form set where nobody was allowed to tag out the scene and it's painful. 

ANOTHER EDIT: Small note! Wikipedia says the writing process was as follows:

The process on each episode was that a writer would make an outline, an expansion of the outline, a script, and then would send it to a team of two board artists. The 'boarders' would have 5 weeks to make thumbnails, then the full boards, and then clean them up, before it would be sent away for animation.

Which is essentially exactly what I guessed was going on and talked about starting around 52:25. Vindication!

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Comments

mewo

hey sorry to point this out but at minute 8 you remembered the reason Tulip can't go to code camp wrong. Her parents are recently divorced and didn't coordinate on who would drive her (because they recently separated), there wasn't any last minute emergency or money issues. Also the dog doesn't permanently die, they transform him back in the end.

Folkloric

"Ship up or shape out."

Drednot

Infinity train gets a surprise 5th season, the main characters name is "Brandon Chatter." His "problem" is wasting too much time on his failing youtube channel. It's 9 episodes of him just getting the shit kicked out of him and in the final episode, his door to the outside world just randomly opens but then he randomly trips and stumbled for 7 minutes and falls off the train into the wheels

Elated Megalodon

you ever have that moment where you realize that you've forgotten what people on the internet are like?... so like, I've been going through all these audio reviews while I'm at work, casually enjoying them, and I finally got to this one where there's a direct call to action for people to discus shit in the comments and I was like "oh, this'll be fun! I can see some old opinions, it'll be like a little archive on this very specific thing, yada yada", and then... literally the first thing I read reminded me why I don't engage with things publicly anymore...

Anonymous

I dont like Infinity Train, but I love almost every IDEA Infinity Train has. The writers of Infinity Train are the ultimate idea guys who for whatever reason write a show where they don’t take a single one of them seriously. Things like Amelia’s endless attempts to recreate her husband, and MT’s value as a human/validation from one one, OR EVEN HAZEL LEAVING are given such little impact in comparison to their importance that its embarrassing. I just wish it was good and that wish is easy to cling onto.

Drednot

Yea, but I wouldn't put it past an animation studio and writing team to do something like that to someone they might consider a detractor.

Hamyton

Jello: “sorry this one is a long one” Me looking at the 7 hour octopath and 6 hour 3 houses reviews

Noah Finch

The divorce thing is better, but the dog thing is so much worse. Like that completely undercuts the danger of the season

Shijin89

The cult thing speaks to me like it should have been a jab at colonizers, which makes the theming of it not well thought out in pure essence. Don't know if I'm on base with this thinking, but it is my first thought when told about this.

rosemarythorn

wild to me that you liked over the garden wall but not infinity train book 1 considering that Tulip and Wirt are basically the same character, Greg has the same general type of jokes as One-One and imo Greg is ***way*** more annoying and time-wasting, and Beatrice and Atticus are both straight-man animal companions. Not that i dislike OTGW, i love it, just seems wild to throw stones at one glass house from a nearly identical glass house, except one has potatoes and molasses, and the other has season 4

rosemarythorn

sidenote it’s so fucking vindicating to see someone dunk on season four. that shit was so ass i literally had to write a fix it fic script of an entire new set of episodes past the first one so i wouldn’t have to think about it. the pacing of season four is so confusing and bad and i genuinely don’t understand why they thought pig baby and the weird moth guy were good final villains. or why having the cast of villains all say “i’m sorry” is the resolution

rosemarythorn

okay to give my thoughts. I disagree with your analysis of season 3, for the main reason of. Season 3 is about a facade of confidence ballooning wildly out of proportion and turning you into a horrible person. And i think that primarily comes from the assumption that the whole number thing is easy to figure out. Numbers on the train seem to only be figured out by like. a few people post Amelia’s fuckery. The whole reason what she did was bad wasn’t just hurting train cars, but removing the tutorial from basically everyone so she could work on making her dead boyfriend, leaving people to believe the train is a nonsense fairyland like Tulip did. It’s also why Ryan and Min know immediately— Kez told them, since this was before Amelia’s takeover. MT already knows because they were part of Tulip around the time of the reveal, and directly told Jesse. While you could say *some* of the more intelligent people in the world could figure it out, it’s extremely reasonable to assume that a couple of scared, traumatized children who’ve just had a run in with The Soul Eating Horror Monster will probably not have the smartest conception of it. And like. After that point, they could figure it out, yes. But Grace is never willing to do that introspection because it would kill the respect she’s getting by being the leader and confront the fact that she’s a terrible person. Same thing for Simon. Even when MT tells them directly, they’ve been believing the lie for basically their entire adult lives by this point, so why should they listen to *a denizen*, someone who they already view as less than worthless? Grace was never a *born sociopath*. She’s always felt a little pang of guilt for what she’s done. But she’s *had* to be the strong one so Simon wouldn’t have a meltdown, or a hissy fit, or turn the apex against her like he did because he’s an immature baby. Also, the racism thing is very interesting, but one thing to remember is that these kids that are on the train, they’re survivorship bias plane coming back from war picked to be the most emotionally fucked up children from the overworld. A large contingent probably just see a weird world of fun colorful stuff to destroy and don’t really think too much harder than that, conceptualizing it as a dream or a video game, because like. the train is *literally insane*, it’s full of crazy colorful bullshit and the denizens might beg for mercy but also what kid hasn’t roleplayed a “villain” toy going “aaaaa nooo don’t eat meee” and getting crushed to death or consumed. It’s aggressively not real to them, and Grace keeps it not real so she can continue to live up to this concept of herself and her moral system that she has. It’s easier to believe your own lies if everyone else believes them too. Not saying it’s perfect. They definitely get cartoony and bad there at times. But I personally believe your read of season three is wrong for those reasons. Season 4 on the other hand I will not even remotely try to defend, that shit’s the worst thing about the show and it’s not surprising at all how much you hated it. Oh also, final thing, the thing I actually like about infinity train. It boils down to one main point: Setting The setting is extremely story rich in a way very few other shows are. There’s this one loveable garbage show from the 90s called Sliders which this show was heavily based on that had a similar framing device which I don’t see in much other media, which is the Dimension-hopping episodic therapy adventure. Each car, or each dimension in sliders, is a completely new world with its own abstract design motifs and structure. It’s like walking through an art gallery and getting to see each piece for a bit, think about it, and then move onto the next one before the first one becomes boring, which isn’t something you get a lot in tv shows. Even episodic shows tend to stick to pretty consistent themes, like a really well-made loaf of bread, but sometimes I wanna try the weird 10-flavor ice cream (even though sometimes the flavor isn’t good, like the parasite car or the bees guy). Also, it’s a very cool abstract-art-style setting to imagine new cars and denizens in, and do fan things with. I’ve run multiple infinity train ttrpg games and they’re entertaining as hell. There’s this concept of world building being innately story-rich. A good story can be good but the worldbuilding and the way the story is told mean you put it down the instant you’re done with it and stop thinking too much about it and never return. Story richness is the ability of a world setting for interesting stories to naturally pop up when you ask questions about the world: Denizens are interesting, what are their limitations? Are they more human? What’s the limit of their humanity, and what’s the limits of their inhumanity? What about with numbers, what would happen if a plural system wound up in the train? What would happen if both parts of an abusive relationship wound up together there, since you couldn’t resolve one conflict without fixing the other? All of these can spawn off entire interesting stories almost instantly with very little work. A well-crafted *premise* can be taken in a thousand different ways, so even if the execution is terrible (see: Danganronpa), people can’t help but want to see new and different stories because the premise is narrative rich. it doesn’t make danganronpa suck less but it does go to explain why some people enjoy it. On the opposite side of the spectrum, you have media like Ghost Trick. Ghost Trick is an ***amazing*** piece of media which i firmly believe is held back solely because it is the *only story* you could conceivably tell in its world and premise. It explores *all* the major questions, does an amazing job doing (most of) it, and then leaves. But after that point, it doesn’t stick in your head, because the premise/worldbuilding and narrative are so heavily tied together that you can’t make AUs or fan characters or imagine different sets of circumstances or create another story with the pieces it left behind. The main thing that makes Infinity Train different from something like danganronpa, though, is that the author can actually tell decent stories in its universe, which is extremely rare in story rich worlds like this. Not *perfect* stories, but *good* ones, and so we get to ask questions about the world *and then have a chance at having them answered in an interesting and compelling way*

daFroakie

Incredibly late to the party on this one, but I felt like watching it from the Jello Review pool. I think I agree overall with the closing thoughts of this, because I was the teenager who hadn’t seen enough media when I first watched Infinity Train. I watched in freshman year of high school and loved it so much that I ranked it as my second favorite show behind Epithet. Looking back, I barely remember much of the show, other than the shocking scenes like Tuba and Simon’s death. The only thing I remembered from season 4 was how annoying the two guys were and when I remembered Kez I actively groaned a bit. And unlike Epithet, which I’ve rewatched several times, I never went to rewatch Infinity Train, even when I still could.

CroakPad

While I don’t dislike Infinity Train, it never hooked me like it seemed to for most people. But I still supported the show for the sake of the fans who do love it.

dollqueen

I still like Infinity Train, but you're not wrong! I'd probably would have noticed some-not all-of the issues on a second watch. Purely going on the memories of my feelings from like, a year maybe 2 ago-I found more charm in the mascots than you did. I also liked the overall character growth for each person, even tho the episodic lessons were pretty hit or miss. Also, fans in general tend to be more forgiving to a point if they think something is cool and the premise and concept of the train and potential for analysis meets that criteria personally and in the fandom in general. While i dont really feel that strongly, a part of the upset over the loss of season 5 was that it was apparently going to be amelia-centric (conductor lady). She definitley had one of the more interesting story lines and was a character that had impact. It sucks that you're having to deal with all these temper tantrums and it sucks that a lot of people dont know how to not take it personally when people disagree. I'm reminded of that one prozd skit which im linking if ur interested https://youtu.be/aJX4ytfqw6k

Flaming Olive

Before listening to this review I *thought* I liked Infinity Train, but in trying to come up with an answer to your question as to what I liked about it, I've pretty much come up empty. I think a lot of people, myself included, don't tend to think nearly as critically about the media they consume as you and the majority of your friends. Where for someone like you, analytical engagement on an intellectual level seems to be largely automatic, I think others such as myself trend more towards a state of passive "along for the ride" enjoyment. Maybe it's rude to insinuate that about the entire non-me section of the Infinity Train fanbase, though. I didn't dislike Tulip or Kez as much as you, but there was nothing I particularly liked about either of them either. I hated the entire main cast of Book 2 though, including MT, who I considered distinct enough from Tulip to be worthy of a unique ire. The dialog-writing style didn't, and still doesn't, bother me. Book 3 was definitely my favorite, if only because I appreciated the creative choice to focus on villain protagonists enough to not stop and consider whether their arcs made any sense. Overall, if I had to pick out any moments that elevated the show above "decidedly average" they would definitely be the ones involving the only parts of the show you liked--the lore surrounding the train itself, and Hazel. Back when I watched the show, I had gotten the feeling that the general consensus on the seasons' quality levels was 3 > 2 > 1 > 4, Being a bit of a baseless contrarian, I convinced myself that MY opinion was 3 > 4 > 1 > 2, but I don't think I could justify that position now if I had to. I can't remember anything seasons 1 or 4 did to earn a spot above season 2, which at least had an interesting ending even if I hated the cast. All in all... it seems like Infinity Train isn't all that worthy of thought, so I'm going to go back to not thinking about it, like I was doing before listening to and commenting on this review.

Actually embarrassed

I only watched the first few episodes and thought it was good but didn't feel any desier to watch more.

Kruh-Daze

I liked Infinity Train but I didn’t love it, Season 4 especially. I definitely get what you’re talking about with the dialogue as I found some of it pretty cringey. I’d rather rewatch Over the Garden Wall as it covers similar themes far better and makes better use of its runtime.

Braydon Hill

Thank you for this delightful review. After listening to this I have decided I should watch the Owl House.

Finn Underwood

I found the first two seasons charming but nothing *too* special (6/10, 7/10 show), I actually found the third season the weakest IMO, and the fourth just kinda exists. I can get people empathizing with the characters so strongly they look past some of the more obvious shortcomings, at the very least. But yeah, it's weird to me how many people *love* the show. Update: After listening to Jello pointing out Season 4's faults, I think I legit checked out of season 4 while watching and forgot most everything besides "hey I like the two guys' arc on paper". That was most of what I got out of this show, really: I empathized with characters and loved the setting, the show itself is just kinda... yeah. Update-update: Spent some time trying to articulate what I liked about Season 2 specifically without rewatching it (which I really should do, been a while) - Firstly, I empathized with MT completely; I projected myself onto her emotions and likely gave her more subtext than the writers did, but I found myself relating to her a lot. Secondly, the idea of taking what felt like a throwaway character from the first season and making them the protagonist was something I'd never seen before. Thirdly, the entire premise of "can robot be human" is something I'm particularly weak to, and while this wasn't as neatly done as I've seen elsewhere, I did love the whole "she's helping him lower his number while he helps her become more human" dynamic MT and Jason had going on. Finally, I don't think I had as many problems with the dialogue as you, nor did I really mind the fact that the comedy never really made me laugh - didn't even notice the jokes were supposed to be laugh-out-loud jokes, tbh, felt more like they were just characters talking in an entertaining way. Idk. Also holy crap yes watch and give thoughts on Owl House plz.

tikimanlele

Good review. Love long content like this. Didn't watch the show but it sounds like a cool concept. When people say it had potential I think they ment the idea of the show and blur the 2 things together.

JelloApocalypse

I'm honestly sorry that I hurt your enjoyment of the show. I definitely didn't love it myself, but I was hoping comments on here would be able to elevate something I had missed to make me respect parts more, not make people who liked the show feel like they had watched it wrong. :(

prep

Mmmmm I've been thinking about this since I listened to this review in the morning, and relistened later. You make a lot of valid points about the show and a few I still personally disagree with. I think at the end of the day I still really like infinity train and I probably will still recommend it to others. I just digest and discuss media a lot different than others, I think I'm far too sympathetic to the human element that goes into the shows and videogames (aka I don't think it's fair for anyone who's determined to put something out there to be screwed over like they did, even before the show was pulled from streaming)

SonicPsycho

I wonder if people voted for it because they wanted you to like it or because they knew you’d not like it

Beck Carmine

I'm one of the aformentioned 20 and I appreciate being appreciated. While I'm making a comment. I want to say that I do a lot of writing in my spare time and I like listening to these long form pieces of content, and it helps me look more critically at my own writing.

Finn Underwood

What about the show did you like, out of curiosity? You didn't really give anything specific there, so I'm not sure what you mean.

S

I’ve only seen the first episode of infinity train, only thing that stood out to me was the music! From what I can tell a huge part of its appeal is it supposedly being deep/dark/complex. The concepts and the vibe seem perfectly geared towards tweens teens/20 something’s that really want to watch a deep/dark/meaningful cartoon. I think a chunk of those people are going through that early teen angst like you said, but it can’t just be that if it’s getting so much love, right? Kinda jumping off of that I think that regardless of the quality of the actual show, people want it to be good and successful so other things with a similar tone(?) and audience(?) would be made. I was on the fence about watching this until I listened to this, and the only reason I wanted to watch it was to see why it was being so hyped up! It had nothing to do with the premise or anything. I always got the vibe that it would be mid and that people were just celebrating the vibe or like “what it meant for the industry” in their mind. Rn I’m 17, I’m assuming that’s a bit old compared to what the target demographic is (probably like 12-14 ?) But I remember being a tween well enough to say that that’s probably a big chunk of where the hype Is coming from. And hey! Good for them, and for anything who loves it. Who knows, maybe your takes are as bad as everyone on Twitter always says they are 😱 I’m sure they’re coming at it from a good place lmao Anyway repetitive wall of text is done. love the long rants lol, next one being on the owl house would be cool!

Berry Straw

I love Infinity Train...yeah I agree with almost all of this, but here's a few things I like about Infinity train. I love that Alan Draula is a silent companion character that doesn't just act like a dog. I love how this show does a cool twist on companion characters in general. I love MT/Lakes arc. I love how dark it can get after showing something silly to make the dark stuff hit harder. The conclusion of it is very fun. What I don't like is like you said it wastes so much of its very valuable time on stuff that does not matter. I like how (except in season four which I feel the cars got too weird.) The the cars are a good balance or feeling kinda random chance, but not to the point where it feels out of nowhere like Adventure time often does. I love Hazel and Tuba. I think Amelia is a very interesting and fascinating to watch character I wish she was there more. (This is just me word vomiting into a comment, so sorry about that. I really loved this video. I love hearing well explained opinions different from my own.)

Dettrahopper

I enjoyed infinity train mainly becuase of the concepts it offers up, mainly in season 2 & 3 where they cover identity of a reflection, what it means to be human, and subjective reality. I do enjoy the humor of apathy in face of wonderment that infinity train presents. I agree that while the concepts are very cool they don't tend to get explored adequately and the core concept would be served a lot better if at least the human characters were more reasonable/consistant and the cars were more thematic and personal (for a kids version) or alternatively have cars that are so broken that people just have to struggle in a poorly managed well intentioned system (for a teen/adult version) Whenever I hear "potential" for a piece of media I just hear "a good concept that would be fun to explore." However season 4 was such a train wreck that I think they ran out of fun/interesting concepts and the writing/execution just can't carry the show.

MiiRshroom

At the bit around 1hr 20 minutes where you were wondering who is the target demographic for this show. Immediately I thought of JtHM comic by Jhonen Vasquez. Which was some of the first dark edgy existential media I latched onto at 16/17. I have interacted with none of infinity train outside listening to this review, so I don't know how accurate this impression is.

Shovlin

I like infinity train because I'm a slut for chaos and its agents, so I like it for the exact reasons that you don't like it. I saw a girl taking a bite out of a raw onion like it was a an apple and thought "my terrible goblin brain is gonna make me watch this whole show, isn't it?" And it did. No regrets. I'm surprised you didn't mention the nonbinary coding of MT in season 2, is there a reason for that?

BIBSSS

honestly, for me I am a person who tends to enjoy things at face value, I usually don't notice the little mistakes or big mistakes until someone points them out, I just enjoyed infinity train because it was something new for me at the time so it was interesting shifts ngl, I did not like the cat and MT however I did like jesses and MT dynamic I just wish MT was a lil better, and for s3 I went in it completely blind so I was legit enraptured by the story, now that you pointed it out yes I do think they should have given a better reason for the cult but I really liked the arc itself, s4 i barely remember i only remember the 1st ep and the rest is just blank, I did like infinity train, could it have been better absolutely, but i think its just a solid watch to turn your brain off to

Bersy

My enjoyment from infinity train was it's attempt to approach the subject of neurodivergence and just different ways of thinking. I actually really liked Tulip, that aggressively snapping at someone while in a stressful situation is a behavior I see in a loved one who has autism. And while they don't outright state that Tulip has autism, the impression I got from her behavior. When I showed them infinity train, there reaction to specifically Tulip was "That is me." They resonated with Tulip, because they not only depicted the positive traits of being autistic, but the negative ones that they struggled with themselves. Now I will whole heartily admit that, personal experience probably did blind me into many of it's flaws. And there is a reason why I say it made an attempt, because they didn't succeed in all aspects Like season 3 is where they started to loos the thread for me, because they clearly wanted to broach the subject of just sociopaths and cults, which I honestly was really interested in seeing if they could broach that can of worms tactfully. Which they didn't, it honestly felt like they were going too, but realized "oh there is no way we can do this without getting dark." And instead changed the messaging too "peer enforced prejudice is bad, maybe don't" and...like I really liked Marcie being so manipulative and it's such a wasted opportunity, because in her flashback they could have easily explained her manipulative behavior by depicting it as a learned behavior from her parents (who being rich were already monsters why not make them sociopaths as well.) and Season 4 was just trash I think they were trying to go with some introvert vs extrovert style story and it just falls flat on it's face. I remember hearing that this season was done during the covid lock down, which at least explains the shitty audio. But all in all I enjoyed the series and I was hoping to see more and was hoping they'd tackle other matters of mental importance. Because I am still waiting to see ANY show depict my own personal mental demon dyslexia as more than just a no read, no write, or no math good.

Candaru

me: ooh new review! I'll just listen to this linked clip first for some context since I haven't watched the show me: me: oh me: oh I h a t e this

Candaru

"I'll probably lose some supporters on Patreon for this" Ok but consider: this is also why you HAVE some of your Patrons. I like that you're incurably honest about your opinions on things (even when you shouldn't be), and that you explain them in full detail. If some media is so personal to me that I'd get RSD from listening to a negative review of it, then I simply won't listen to that review (Komi Can't Communicate). I like that you don't care if something is popular or not, that you own up to your biases, and that you explicitly state WHY you thought certain stories, characters, or themes fell flat. That's the sort of genuine critique I enjoy listening to because it helps me approach my own writing with a more critical eye.

Brethren Toons

Haven't watched this yet, but I feel like I'm going to have a lot of thoughts based on your Twitter and how much I did not agree with that. I'll follow this comment up when I'm done, so... fingers crossed that you can make me think about one of my favorite shows in a different way.

Leaf

I haven’t watched Infinity Train, but enjoyed the review regardless. It sounds like it did have a lot of potential, but less “it shouldn’t have been canceled” and more “the premises had a lot of potential but the writing fell short”. Darn. The Owl House is really good - I’d love to hear your thoughts on it once you finish watching.

Brethren Toons

I have a lot to say, I hope you don't mind a text wall in the near future. I'll do my best to be polite, I'm no sixteen-year-old.

Ignis Astrorum

I've never seen the show, and sure maybe the fans were mad that you made your tweets so soon after the HBO mess, but its not acceptable to give you so much garbage just for giving an opinion. I love your audio reviews (makes for a great listen while playing story of seasons) and I don't blame you for wanting to leave twitter.

Archie

One of the things that really made me like the first two seasons of Infinity Train is honestly that I love Tulip. I genuinely don't recognise your description of her at all. Of course, we all have our own biases and characters will come across differently. But I love how realistic Tulip feels. She has a curious mind and methodically explores things. A good early example of this is how the interacts with the cube car early in the show. She's intelligent, but she isn't cartoon-intelligent, where her smarts make her some kind of hyper genius. And I think her logical brain is part of what makes the absurd train frustrating for her, sometimes. Because, to her, this is a life or death situation, but no one except her takes it seriously. Especially since she is canonically on that train for months. But maybe we just see her behaviour differently (or the fact that you were actively in pain while watching it made her more abrasive) because she really works for me. As a nerdy child who also went through my parents divorcing at around that age, I see her struggle as very relatable and realistic. I like MT a lot, too. But my favourite character in the second season is actually Jesse. I like his struggle. Once again, I was able to relate a lot to an insecure people-pleaser. Someone who needs to be liked by everyone and almost loses himself in that need. I think it's pretty well-handled, honestly.

Average

I loved Infinity Train, but even watching it there is a lot of whiplash from the changes in tone. Still, I think that season 1 was the best, and I'd agree with Ackim in that I'm not sure where your impression of tulip comes from. To me, her aggression seemed to be a reaction of both impatience and fear of the unknown around her that she had a hard time understanding. I felt that the way season 1 showed the repression of memories in two characters was very interesting and I believe that there is an observable change in Tulip from her state of constant aggression, which is shown in places like the play palace.

Chandler B

Just wanna say, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Owl House; would also be interested in hearing your thoughts on amphibia, i think you said on twitter you didn't really get into season 1, but I honestly think season 2 and season 3 are really good. The finale made me cry.

lozkrem

I for sure agree with the issues with season 4, it sucks and I wish it didn't exist. I think Tulip was brash but it was kind of the point of her and her anger was based on her issues at home leading her to get angry about everything but that was just my interpretation of her. I think the root problem with Infinity Train is that yes, it definitely has some very noticeable problems with continuity and following its own rules, in particular the reflection thing. Other than that though I thought learning about the rules of the train and how the different interpretations people have about the train forms and just how the overall concept gets explored. Infinity Train is a really good show that just requires a lot of suspension of disbelief, even if that does actually warrant well-deserved criticism. Also for Grace and Simon while it is rushed and poorly thought-out with Grace's swap to being the good guy, I really enjoyed their story because it was a cool, tragic story of Grace having to face the fact that this awful lifestyle that not only she's lived by for most of her life but also indoctrinated a lot of innocent kids into was wrong and then watch Simon double down when she tries to nudge him to vindicate her change of heart and brand her as evil and alienate her from her entire life.

DecayInEcho

just listened through all of this, (keep in mind jello, i am a big fan of infinity train, your take is completely valid as i have my own criticisms towards it) i feel like infinity train suffers from the SAO effect, the initial idea and plot is AWESOME like super cool ideas all around a video game youre stuck in? oh yea homestuck me up man that sounds sick!! a train purgatory realm to learn lessons on and be a less shitty person? heck yea make me a decent human being!! but i feel as though the potential that couldve been there was truly wasted, and yea i have several conspiracys that this show would be massively better if the team was given more respect and freedom to do insane shit but because this originally was produced for kids on cartoon network, then renewed on hbomax, there mightve been a ton of corporate influence within that space for the team as is told by the shittiness of hbomax literally removing infinity train off of its site very short notice (dont remember if this audio was made before or after so oopsie) but conspiracy theory aside and back on topic, i feel like instead of writing out all the possible outcomes for a thing that could happen while world building they just sort of thought of a few things that could happen without the time investment to think of the possible outcomes of an idea and the repercussions for those outcomes they just took an idea, like nulls not being real people, and didnt think twice about it :( i adore the concepts and the ideas of infinity train but they dont develop those ideas enough to make fully coherent plot, i really wish more time and care was put into it. also as a side note i am kinda surprised that you really like season 1 of owl house o.O as most peoples criticisms for owl house have to do with season 1 so me thinks if you like season 1 youll adore season 2, and once you review it i will have a mountain of information to say about owl house as its one of my favorite shows at the moment !! so please watch season 2 when you get the chance !!!!!

Ray Jaxxon

Didn’t have an issue with Tulip being a hot head and really liked MT and didn’t really care about the bell character but otherwise agree 120% especially with how the show seems to waste time and promise “potential” that isn’t coming. It sort of reminds me of the Venture bros situation where season 1 is ok, 2 -3 are pretty good, but then season 4-5 are AWFUL and season 6-7 are fucking amazing — I sort of hate how many cartoon nerds online have written off the management and production sides of being a “showrunner” like having infinite budget and time should be a given as long as someone’s work is “interesting” and not “hot garbage”. The hard truth of the matter is there are a LOT of skilled writers and artists —and people who do both— but there’s only so many resources that can go to show many projects at a given time and we don’t live forever. Most people don’t even GET a shot so it always feels a little “there was probably someone with better ideas if not all out better show management skills who got passed up for this position/budget” when shows like IT run the way they do.

Gilded Dragon

Just recently am going through Infinity train putting it on while working, I REALLY liked seson 1 because the mystery about the Number and the wonder of the cars felt fantastic. I felt thrown right back into Gravity Falls with the weird and abnormal that has an explination that just needs to be unlocked. I was fine with Tulip and her flaws because she was trying to figure out the train as much as I was and felt along with the adventure. One-One really wasnt that annoying past episode 2 where she tried to trade him off, really fell into the background until big character moments like the "broken" car. I greatly enjoyed slowly learning about the train and the conductor, and kinda wish book1 stretched that a bit longer. After the fake conductor was revealed and the train is fully explined I feel the later seasons have less impact. Now that you know the rules its up to the characters to control the story which a gree isnt overly stellar. I love the little nuggest of extra train lore and there were a few moments that really punched me in the heart I can agree its overly not fun to watch an unlikeable protaganist. Thats where it kinda falls short being a ride for inately unlikaable and substantially flawed people. Personally i dont know how people say the books get better I think its been downhill since book 1 not a sharp decline, but like stated when the big mystery is gone i felt it lost impact and I'm struggling to get past book 4. Oh and it being a kid show REALLY nerfed it, every season past the first had points for a REALLY good tragic end but they decide to write around to a happy ending for the protagonist, both Book 2 and 3 felt very contrived with their resolution. I'm not upset they didnt die but you can feel where if this was a novel you know the chapeter would have just cut right there and moved on.