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Episode 405 - Bartleby the Scrivener - Part 2 (Patreon)

Published:
2018-05-26 16:04:58
Edited:
2025-05-18 02:57:29
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

Special thanks to our reader: Wyatt S. Gray!

This story was recommended by Kieran Setiya - check out his books!

Also this week - a show on Lovecraftian Cinema!

Next up: Mimic by Donald A. Wollheim

Comments

Ben Mund

I listened to this while showing my son a couple ways to tie his shoes. It was a long process. ( He ended up saying he preferred knot two).

Doug McCool

To think... all that Professor Nathaniel Wingate Peaslee needed to say to anyone was, "I prefer not to".

Doug McCool

Side note: For some reason, I'd started to fear that the show was losing financial support. I hope that the move to Patreon has done away with that possibility, if it was ever there to begin with. From many of our perspectives, I'm sure, you guys are like family.

Steve

It's des-ab-e-yé, or diss-abeel.

Steve

Chris says Oh Snap!

Markus Lauerer

Melville has often been cited as a precursor to Kafka. Bartleby, in particular, is seen as an early instance of exploring the absurdity and eventual futility of the human condition, a concept that would later form the ideological core of Kafka's entire work. While there is certainly a lot of truth in that claim, I think it is interesting to point out a notable difference in approach that separates Bartleby from such works as "The Castle" or "The Trial": In Kafka's texts, the reader usually witnesses the events through the eyes of ordinary (to the point of namelessness) characters struggling against an inscrutable and all-powerful system and unfailingly being consumed by it in the end. Had Kafka written Bartleby, we would have probably gotten a scrivener protagonist whose hopeless protest of "I would prefer not to" in the face of an endless stream of mind-numbing copy work was designed to elicit the reader's sympathy. Melville, on the other hand, decided to tell his story from the viewpoint of one of the "system's agents", a lawyer. In doing so, Bartleby necessarily becomes a very cryptic figure, since the system he directs his polite protest against is never painted as this crushing and unfathomable moloch one tends to find in Kafka's work. This, I feel, makes Melville story all the more intriguing, as the reader is given basically no incentive to empathize with Bartleby's strange behaviour, and yet: just as the narrator, we cannot help but pity Bartleby, this curious man who might as well be called "everyman".

Sweatin' to the Great Oldies

First and foremost, I'm shocked at the lack of references to a very special episode of "Head of the Class" in which a new student continuously (and enigmatically) says that he would prefer not to. My Googling skills have failed me, but perhaps someone else could find it? This episode was my introduction to the story. On a more serious note, I find this story a good example of the clash of explicit and implicit communication styles. English speakers tend to be very explicit. It is the job of speakers to make themselves understood so listeners feel free to ask for explanation. When that explanation is not forthcoming, there is a great deal of confusion. I live in Tokyo where communication tends toward the implicit. It is the listener's job to grasp what the speaker intended - regardless of clarity. I have heard many Bartleby-esque stories from my years here. When an implicit speaker says, "I would prefer not to," they feel they've said everything they need to. It's up to us to work out any deeper meaning. And, I suppose I should just point out that Bartleby never actually flat out refuses to do things. He states his preference and leaves it in the other person's court. Passive aggressive to the end.

Frank Lee

I admit I thought something awesome was going to happen. At least like a K-PAX style ending. But really it was just a guy who didn't want to put up with it anymore.

Jason Thompson

"Mimic" is SO AWESOME!! I read the story first, and frankly it's so much cooler than the Guillermo del Toro movie. (I hear they went back to the well and used some more stuff from the story in Mimic 2 and beyond, but del Toro really went the safe route with the movie, much as I love 'im.)

Andrew Blanke

I quite enjoyed your guys' coverage of this story. My initial impression was that Melville wrote this in reference to Henry David Thoreau's attitudes of civil disobedience, which also resulted in his arrest; I had assumed that Melville had written the character of Bartleby as a parody of Thoreau's attitudes toward mundane but civilly necessary tasks such as paying taxes etc. However, upon hearing your discussion of it, I find that I much prefer the idea that Melville wrote this as a reflection on his own despair and loss of will to write (and possibly to live). I believe that the narrator's reflections on Bartleby reinforce this reading of the story. I also enjoyed Chad's comments on depression as Bartleby's indifference toward the world around him and his future, while displaying a near indomitable will in his inaction, resonated quite a lot with me, having battled with severe depression in the past. The Brokeback Mountain joke made my evening and I very much look forward to the Ang Lee adaptation of this story, Bartleby Mountain.

Patrick Reinhart

Wait, has no one mentioned the Bartleby movie with Crispin Glover yet? It's been forever since I saw it, but it did screw with my head. I think it was pretty faithful, too, if memory serves...

Sellers Burgener

This story does seem to have a great many themes woven into it, too many perhaps to pin down. I think, like a lot of great works of art, it's an expression of a mood brought on by an amalgumation of experiences all pointing to a sense of futility. It reminds me of one of Melville's Redburn stories we read in high school (I forget which). The narrator finds a woman huddled in an alley frozen to death. Beneath her coat are two frozen children and a baby suckling at her breast. The baby is still alive. He asks a variety of people for help to rescue this poor baby but no one wants to take the time or responsibility to do anything at all. When he returns to the alley, the baby is dead. This story seems to be a play on that same theme of futility, in this case the living ghost from the dead letter office who has long since realized everything is futile and that we all end up just going into the dead letter pile in the end. And then into the flames. In that same sense, I definitely feel it has a profound impact in weird fiction, not only for the reasons you gentlemen pointed out, but also because of its technique of evoking a mood and leaving you with a lurid sense of being disturbed by something you can't see or do anything about.

Kenneth R. Gerety

As with many others I first encountered this story in school, never gave it much thought or interest, but now that we’ve covered it on this podcast it definitely appeals more. Easier to get into after having job experience and being able to relate to the weird dynamics between people thrown together by employment who would never otherwise have to interact. The tone of “Bartleby” is such that it can either be depicted in a comedic, Monty Python or Seinfeld/George Costanza type scenario, or indeed as an eerie, Twilight Zone-ish situation. Sort of like Office Space meets Single White Female .... wait, what?

Elisheba

Do you have a recommended source or a link to the text of Mimic? I like to do my homework.

Michael Cunliffe

Bartleby really does seem to fit the idea of ‘Terror’ as described by King and referenced in the podcast before. Bartleby is a normal, human employee, but slowly becomes something unnatural, until like The Raven, he becomes an empty reflection of the narrators own fears and frustration.

Andrew Trnacek

Cool story but is it weird fiction? Strange, cryptic yes but weird I wouldn't have thought so. Nevertheless enjoyed the episodes. Also as an employer of many years Bartleby still wouldn't make into my 10 worst employees list!

Jeppe Mulich

This was an excellent double-episode and I'm very happy you guys are taking on some of the great works of weird fiction that don't necessarily fit within the narrow confines of the horror genre. Bartleby is a clear example of early uncanny fiction, at least to my mind. It would be amazing to hear your take on other authors in that tradition like Silvina Ocampo, Franz Kafka, Amos Tutuola - maybe even Borges?

Nickthulhu

As touched on in the show, some critics absolutely believe this tale is symbolically autobiographical in terms of Melville’s own writing career. He was conflicted in his own life of writing conventional stories (copying the law / what is socially acceptable) and following his own passion of creating the works he truly wanted — though not received by anyone else in his time (the pondering of dead letters). It’s definitely a theory that has some credence, but there are many unanswered questions still. Like for instance, what would the ginger nuts represent??

Chris Austin

It was a strange story. I didn't like it too much. It left me feeling depressed. :D

Allison Albright

I had a job with the county a few years ago and I'm not sure if it was some aspect of employment law for government workers or just that particular HR department, but it was impossible to fire anyone. I had several employees who didn't want to do their work, but didn't seem to want to do anything else either. It was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. This story brought that all back. I'm sure it's a somewhat common experience for anyone who has managed employees. This story may have deeper meanings or symbolism, but for me it worked in a more straightforward way as well. That job was a nightmare. I think this story can absolutely be classified as weird fiction. There's definitely something uncanny about Bartelby and how he manages to ensnare the protagonist so effectively just by saying he'd rather not do anything that was asked of him.

Runninghead

Loved it! Good to see Chris giving Dick van Dyke a run for his money! In Mary Poppins, “Scrivener” meaning a copyist, Dick is referring to his trade as a pavement chalk artist, which frequently involves the reproduction of famous artworks in chalk. Though the story is less conventionally “weird” I really appreciated the way that, as Chad pointed out, it provides a superb characterisation of Depression, specifically that type fomented by the frustration of ones art. As a scrivener myself for 20 years (first as a “ghost” Illustrator, and now as copywriter for a legal team) it resonated strongly with me! :)

James Duffy

Following on from all the excellent literary discussion here, I can only add that when you were talking about Bartleby and the possibility of his misery, I thought you were about to break out into some Metallica.

Carmelo Crassi

This story deeply resonated with me. I have a soul sucking, unfulfilling job, in an industry that I never wanted to be a part of. I wake up everyday, trying to justify doing what I do, and everyday it becomes more difficult to do so. Everyday, I become a shell of the person I once was. I guess all I wanted to say was that, to me, this story is a good representation of how people like me seem to the outside world. Side note, I do suffer from depression. I realize that this does contribute to the way I feel about my work, and I am getting mental help. I don't wish to follow Bartleby's path to its end.