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Episode 516 - The Picture of Dorian Gray - Part 3 (Patreon)

Published:
2020-09-21 21:52:32
Edited:
2024-12-12 19:00:34
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

MURDER was the case that Oscar Wilde gave us for part 3 of THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY!

We're joined once again by writer and Skins creator Jamie Brittain!

Decadent thanks to reader Greig Johnson!

Music in this episode: Ballade No.1 Op.23 and Nocturne No. 1 by Chopin + 'Don't You Want Dreams" produced by Voicedude.

Comments

Erik Jordan Phillips

Longtime listener, first time commenter, here. A Cult for controlling emotions, you say? Perhaps I shall start building army of good feelings to come your way. Truly delighted to see another upload

Jon Hancock

An amazing ploy from Dorian there: there's a body upstairs, a man who killed himself by brutally stabbing himself in the back of his neck repeatedly while banging his face against a table. It's the old, old story.

Forrest Rush

Goat kissing and a Fleetwood Mac/Human League mash up? you guys are just amazing. I repeat my claim that American Psycho is Ellis' most Dorian novel especially based on the listing of Chapter 11 as well as the similar reasons the writers used such a device.

Antti Laakso

Great episode and an excellent outro music choice!

Sanjay Mathew

"Got them to kiss a goat or something" Where posh English people are concerned this just means he was at Oxford with them (see Cameron, David).

Father of Beagles

Wow that ending music was great. Don’t you want me baby and Fleetwood Mac mash up was something I didn’t know I needed in my life.

Stacey Cahan

Wow. Long time listener, first time caller, etc. etc. How funny(?) that the very same episode on which Chad mispronounced my name (no worries, everyone does) was also the one that prompted a thought I just HAD to share. Like, enough that I had to stop mid-run this morning to set a reminder to post this today. This installment of Dorian Gray reminded me a bit of themes raised in EF Benson's "The Man Who Went Too Far" - in particular, the notion that bad deeds/bad thoughts have an impact on one's appearance. In Wilde's work, it's that sort of active participation/intent, while in Benson's it's just being around bad feelings/deeds in general (I can just picture Benson's Frank wearing one of those "good vibes only" tank tops while lounging in his hammock just before getting trampled by Pan).

Ethan Cordray

I loved the connection you guys made at the beginning, that Dorian is basically succeeding in classic "self-help" psychology, and that's what makes him a moral monster. He's truly living his Best Life Now! I think there's some profound connection between the aspirational ideals of pop psychology -- self-confidence, control, positivity -- and the troubling reality of psychopathic personality disorder, where a psychopath is literally incapable of doubting themselves or being influenced by other people's emotional reactions to their behavior. Many psychologists think that psychopaths simply don't feel normal emotions at all, except for the basic feelings of excitement and boredom. But the fact that psychopaths are free from the "hang-ups" of normal emotions -- and thus of normal social pressures -- might explain why normal people tend to find psychopaths charming and charismatic. There's an attractiveness to that freedom, and when we imagine ourselves free in a similar way, it seems ideal. Of course, when we imagine ourselves that way, we're projecting upon that imaginary self-image a whole bunch of psychological elements that actual, real psychopaths don't really have. If you have a normally-functioning amygdala, achieving that sort of self-possession is actually extremely difficult, as everyone from the ancient Stoics to the more honest types of self-help writers have understood -- and also probably won't have the pleasant results that you think it would. Anyway, this all makes me think that there's a market for a Dorian Gray self-help book, teaching people how to project all of their fears, insecurities, and social pressures onto a creepy painting you keep in your attic while you live your life of freedom and luxury. "The Secret of Dorian Gray" in bookstores soon!

Ben A

I'm feeling some strong Tusk energy from you guys! Definitely not the same vibe as Rumours, which has more of that infidelity air…

Ben A

You all have an interesting take on the yellow book. It does have a smattering of a first-time obsession response in Dorian. However, I also always looked at the yellow book to be more like a grimoire—not literally, such as what the Necronomicon is meant to be, but rather a book that exudes a kind of magic on those who read it. The book acts like an enchanting talisman, a source of further corruption on Dorian. As impressionable as he is, I doubt the book would have had its effect on him before he saw the painting absorbing his misdeeds and sins. Once he reached a threshold of corruptible freedom achievable only when he felt there were no consequences for his actions, though, the influence of the book and its worldview could take hold. Not to get overly critical of other literature, but it is much the same as how works like those of Ayn Rand or L. Ron Hubbard can have an outsize effect on people when they are of a certain age, as well as a certain predisposition. The circumstances for Dorian made him susceptible to the thoughts conveyed by the yellow book, enough that it overwhelmed his reasoning and further warped his thinking. I’m looking forward to hear your thoughts at the end! (Also, it would be interesting to hear what you all think of the 1945/46 adaptation.)

Stacy Schumacher

I am 100% ready for the literary analysis through the use of 80s synthpop hits spinoff.

Robert Ayers

The Fleetwood Mac/Human League, aka “Human Mac” mash-up is soooo groovy. Good job you maniacs.

Zane Graves

Oh, Chad, I'll miss you. Not enough to stop Jamie from murdering you and taking on your hosting duties, but enough to casually, but ominously, mention to Chris, "Chad was REALLY great. I wonder what happened to him," while sipping a cocktal at some live show. It's the least I could do.

Sweatin' to the Great Oldies

Love the Dorian Gray episodes and dreading their coming to an end. I would like to think that Dorian decides to keep his portrait in his old schoolroom because he wants to place what he has become into his past. If his current behavior has always been in his nature (or was learned in childhood) then he can hardly be blamed for choosing it as an adult. Something like the serial killer who points to their miserable childhood as explanation for their serial killing. And like the most terrifying of psychopaths, Dorian is charming. Manipulative. Narcissistic. The unnoticed monster among us. The signs of the monster's true nature are there, but carefully locked away by the monster and their enablers.

Ben Mund

Great show, as always. You three made me want to sin so much my driver's license photo has turned into the Crypt Keeper. Anyway, just a quick note. I took the mention of Dorian corrupting Lord Henry's sister as an expression how far past Lord Henry's hedonism he'd moved. Sort of like teaching the teacher, and not really in need of any follow up.

Peter Larsen

I like that Lord Henry's "corruption" of Dorian is less "Come to the Dark Side, bwahahahaha!" and more just the everyday normalizing of shitty entitled behavior that goes on all the time in the real world. Despite the decadence and Gothic elements, Dorian's "fall" is mostly him going "wait? I could just not care? Really? Awesome!" It's not an argument that works on everyone, thank heavens, but the number of people who, relieved of responsibility or consequences, will do just about anything is... well, larger than I like.

Matt Shank

Oh man I am loving this story. It has a completely unique voice and feel. A hint of weird, but mostly just filled with really interesting character dynamics, something that's often lacking from weird fiction. I was cackling during the sign-off bit as well. I love the camaraderie between you two, and your voices and attitudes make the show what it is. Even though we've never met in person, I feel like I'm getting together to hang out with friends every week. Thank you so much for all the hard work you put into making the show. I hope to see it continue for years to come.

Robert Curtin

There’s a, (I hesitate to say great), body horror film called “Tusk,” that I feel has very strong Big Tusk Energy. Might be worth a look for you guys.

Devin Trim

Sorry if this has already been asked guys, but what was that allusion to Renaissance poisoning? Wilde simply states that the Renaissance knew of strange ways of poisoning, and then lists off a bunch of ordinary objects. A google search yielded nothing....can you gentlemen offer any insight?

Joshua Weiss

I rather enjoyed the long list of boring activities that Dorian engaged in. Diving deep into the ephemera of aesthetic pleasures, followed by the abandonment of the same once the novelty wore off, really drove home the ennui of immortality that Dorian must have been experiencing.

Cacodaemoniacal

"Basil Hallward is what I think I am: Lord Henry is what the world thinks of me: Dorian is what I would like to be—in other ages, perhaps." ~Oscar Wilde https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Picture_of_Dorian_Gray Reading the book, I wondered if Wilde called it too well and his morality became conflated with Lord Henry's? Confirming in the public's eye that he was someone to put a stop to.