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Episode 517 - The Picture of Dorian Gray - Part 4 (Patreon)

Published:
2020-09-28 23:22:07
Edited:
2024-12-12 19:00:35
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

We're closing the curtain on THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY - make sure you've collected all your belongings!

We're joined one last time by writer and Skins creator Jamie Brittain!

Ecstatic thanks to reader Greig Johnson!

Music in this episode: Ballade No.1 Op.23 and Nocturne No. 1 by Chopin.

Next up: MANIMAL and The Hound of Death by Agatha Christie!

Comments

Pearce Duncan

The email notification said this was Part 3, which made me think that the podcast had stopped ageing

Karlandos

Its funny I was oblivious to the Human League reference and out of no where I hear in my head “Don’t you want me baby!” and then I made the connection. Before then I was convinced it was some show.

Devin Morse

The H.P. Lovecraft Literary Podcast's contributions to the historic critique of this novel: - the parallel between Dorian Gray and Leonard Nimoy's two autobiographies; - the inference that Basil gave his other models heat vision; - Lord Henry as a tragic figure in the tradition of The Fonz; and - James's hunt for Dorian evoking Terminator.

Jon Hancock

"Right you are, random prostitute!" is a line I shall be keeping an eye out for in future. There's no way it can be allowed to slip into obscurity.

Peter Larsen

The true horror will only be learned after quarantine — while his voice remains utterly beautiful, the unspoken horrors of this book have left Greig Johnson monstrously transformed!

Sweatin' to the Great Oldies

Oh Dorian! You're as beautiful as a painting with just about as much depth. And we love you for it.

Mistress Frieren

I remember seeing Albright's painting at the Art Institute of Chicago when I was younger. The one that was used as a prop in the 1945 film. That painting awakened something in me. Not like I want to smooch a zombie or anything but just a love for weird and creepy art. Though I am not zombie shaming by any means.

Stacy Schumacher

The end of the story reminded me of a Simpson's episode, where Mr. Burns creates a net out of plastic garbage, and Lisa says something like, "You're horrible, and when you're trying to do something good, you're even more horrible." That's how I perceive Dorian at the end, like - he is so terrible, that any act he thinks would be good, is terrible by virtue of being thought of or executed by him. He thinks he can trick the painting, or fate, or his own self, with a good action, but the picture sees it for what it is - still a selfish act - and throws that up on the image of him. And he's enraged that it calls him out on it. I don't think the ending is intentionally self-destructive, I think it's angry and spiteful. His final act is selfish and thoughtless, because that has so imbued who he is by that point, that the consequences, even to himself, are inconsequential to what his impulse is. These have been great episodes, Jamie's been a thoughtful guest, and I thought Greig's readings were fantastic. Well done, all.

Ravewolf

I first read this story as a kid, and was actually pretty disappointed with how it was written, despite having enjoyed some other arguably more dense material from the era. Wilde tells us it's not the story that is essential, but how it is told. But when I read the thing, it was a bit hard for me to even get through it to the end, to be honest. Maybe it's partly because we don't get to really know the characters very well and I found some of the subtexts hard to pick up on. And yet the story and the ideas in it have haunted me my whole life ever since, as I slowly came to realize that I found it unforgettable in some weird way. Oh well, the author must have done something right. Jokes about pastiche of this book involving multiple paintings and super powers aside, Karl Edward Wagner actually did write an interesting one, in which it is shown that Wilde was supposedly inspired by an actual but not entirely consenting Dorian equivalent. The story was named "The Picture of Jonathan Collins"

Jason Thompson

One of my favorite horror novels ever. Great reading, guys!! I was obsessed for most of my youth with the idea expressed in this novel— that basically your moral character shows in your face. You’ve probably heard the idea that “the left side of your brain controls the right side of your body” and somewhere I heard or read the corollary that the side of your face controlled by the “emotional” side of your brain would reflect your morals and personality.... “emotional lateralism”... basically Dorian Gray but only on 1/2 of you. The serial killer H.H. Holmes apparently believed this and became obsessed with the idea that half his face was becoming uglier as he killed more people.

Richard Horsman

Tonight we watched THE SINS OF DORIAN GRAY, an early 80s TV movie adaptation of The Picture. The hook for this one is that it has a contemporary setting and Dorian is…a woman (gasp)! Instead of a portrait, the magical device is a screen test, because in this version Dorian is an aspiring actress/model. Basil is a female director, married to “Henry Lord” (played by a slumming Anthony Perkins). It’s a fascinatingly wrong-footed take: all the queer subtext and text is erased, replaced with a plot that’s basically 60% A STAR IS BORN and 40% “Don’t You Want Me Baby”. No one in it actually gives a damn about art, and Dorian is more like a Catherine O’Hara character from SCTV than a compelling and repelling figure. The crowning glory is the increasingly laughable make up used to age Dorian in the screen test. By the end she’s basically wearing a latex Tor Johnson mask. But the strangest thing: there are scenes that are beat for beat from the book, most notably the morning after the death of lounge singer “Stuart Vane” who Dorian has rejected. The people who did this adaptation took the time to read the source, but boy did they not understand it. Also, it has an INCREDIBLE theme song, one of those good old ones where they sing the plot of the movie at you: https://youtu.be/OPIUFhBQDso

Corey Wittig

I was just thinking about the hare that Dorian notices. If his hunting mate doesn’t disregard his fawning then Dorian is likely killed. So, is the Hare somehow a representation of his soft side and a moral love of beauty which would lead to his death and an end to immoral acts? Whatever the idea it’s cool ‘what if’’ moment even if, as a teen, I felt like it was a cop out and wanted Dorian to die. Well, just a few more pages and I was satisfied.

Kiubez

I am so glad you guys covered this novel. I may have literally cheered out loud when you announced it at the end of last month. This has long been a favorite of mine (don't know what that says about me...). And these episodes have been really refreshing, too. It's great to hear you guys get into the deeper, more philosophical, and existential parts of the literature. It was more than just a recap of the story but you guys really dug in there to pull out the meaning behind it. A little ironic, considering, but enjoyable nonetheless.

H P Lovecraft's Cat

Looks at upcoming show,sees no Blochtober ,sighs.2020 started with Enoch and there wasn’t a better foreshadowing for the Year of Death,May returned to Lovecraft but no “He” now NYC is dead; dead; dead.This show used to be daring and great ,now it feels like they are just phoning it in.

Robert Curtin

This book has been far better than I’ve heard! But I still can’t think of this book without the Far Side comic popping into my head, “The Dog of Dorian Grey!”

MonsterTalk

On the hare symbolism - in addition to the imagery you guys discussed it's worth noting that hares are consistently associated with Witch lore in England. Movies tend to make us think of witches turning to cats and whatnot, but Hares are the serious go-to animal for Witches. The historical basis of silver being used to kill shapechangers takes root in this legend and there are lots of very familiar stories of hare's wounded by silver, only to find an old woman in town with a grievous wound to the same spot later. (Spoiler! They're witches!) That connection was featured in American witch/ghost lore like the legend of The Bell Witch. And it was eerily portrayed in the 2015 horror film The VVitch. I suspect Wilde would have expected English readers to know that connection and that it would have added a magical flavor to the scene.

Lord Rancid

Though she doesn't listen to the podcast, you have now done 3 of my wife's 4 all time favourite novels (this, Wuthering Heights and Phantom). I did manage to get her to listen to the first couple of episodes of Wuthering Heights, but there were so many "high eyebrows" at the levity with which you treated some of the sacred material (or maybe they were aimed at me for laughing so much) that I didn't push any more on her. If nothing else though I can now converse with her on a semi intellectual basis (the "semi" coming from me only half remembering your insights) about them. Bonus points for me! I'm not going to mention what her 4th favourite book is, let's just see if the gods of fate bring you guys to that one in some other way...

Zane Graves

What really struck me, especially during the last episode, was how much this felt like Wilde was calling out gay men. It might be how it reads today in a modern context, but I can't help but wonder if the queer world wasn't so dissimilar some 140 years ago as it is today. Having been in and out of various scenes over my life, there's always something appealing about the new face, the new guy who doesn't know the ropes. There are the people who are happy to be a guide, and if they're decent dudes, will warn about any predatory behavior. I remembered moving outside LA in the early 2000's, and upon hitting a major bar and being introduced to people, told, "You better be careful if you bump into So-and-So." In my youth, I dismissed it as some mean girl behavior, but I quickly learned how often those warnings were justified. In the novel, we don't linger on the fun times of Dorian: we start with him as the new blood and very quickly go over what could be the fun years, until we get to the jaded, empty man who youthly pleasures were no longer fun. Substance abuse in the queer community is rather high, and part and parcel of contemporary gay culture. So a book about eternal youth and showing no signs of self-destructive behavior? This story is the cleanest metaphor for smoking meth and wearing mirrored aviators because you think no one at the club notices you've been saying you're 29 for fifteen years.

Michael Littlefield

Great job on going over this great work of literature. I binged the last two parts of Dorian Gray so forgive me if I also include things from Part 3 as well as the finale. I do find Dorian Gray as an interesting character, despite not really having much internal conflict until the end as he sees his sins manifested in others (such as the callousness of Geoffrey to accidentally killing James Vane in relation to Dorian's own murder of Basil). I also found it interesting that Dorian became a Catholic, but when I read his motive was only out of the pomp and ceremony associated with the Catholic Church and that he quickly grew bored with it I realized something. Dorian only has a superficial appreciation of beauty and when that superficial decoration gives way to anything deeper (such as Sibyl Vane actually being a person or the deeper symbolism in Christian tradition) then he quickly abandons them. He, himself, comes across as a person who has always been told that they are someone special, but not given a deeper purpose other than to be someone beautiful. He is essentially, as C. S. Lewis would put it "a man without a chest", having no real will of his own and is only ruled by his appetites or by logic without any thought of the consequences to anyone else. While art is meant to be appreciated for its beauty, there is a deeper layer to it: to serve as a mirror for an artist and for the artist's society to reflect on what it really values and how it treats others. Hence the look of hypocrisy on the portrait's face at the end with its twist of hypocrisy. Dorian thinks that his attempts at charity or not corrupting others is him practicing selflessness it isn't and Lord Henry recognizes that, hence him not being impressed. When Dorian brags about how he did not corrupt Perdita, he is still being selfish. An act of perceived selflessness, if it is done out of thinking what one can gain in return, is still selfishness. True selflessness begins with recognizing that you are not the center of the universe, which is something that Dorian is never able to do. Dorian, even in his "good acts", is still being selfish and he may inadvertently corrupt Perdita. His wish has not only made him Narcissus, but also a dark version of Midas. Everyone and everything he touches becomes corrupted with his own selfishness, hence the look of hypocrisy on the portrait. Dorian recognizes the portrait as being a manifestation of his dark secrets and as something that could ruin the perceived pristine image he has of himself to society. As such he thinks that he needs to destroy the portrait in order to keep both his physical and reputable beauty, but he has no thought at all to his own mental and spiritual beauty. As a consequence, by trying to have his cake and eat it too, he ends up destroying himself. The way that I picture his body is how it would have been in the painting: ravaged by the passage of time, scarred and twisted by any diseases transmitted through sex or from heavy drug consumption (especially Syphilis). In the end I don't think that Dorian really felt any actual regret for his actions, only a desperate need to get rid of anything that reminded him that, as soon as he did away with his childhood innocence, his beauty was only ever superficial. I think that the price of his Faustian bargain to remain forever young was his conscience and why he feels he has nothing to regret. He desired to remain beautiful at any price. Pride does indeed come before a fall.

Zane Graves

We're doing some renovations to our store and the contractor dropped off paint chips. Sherwin Williams has a color called Dorian Grey.