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Episode 529 - The Turn of the Screw - Part 4 (Patreon)

Published:
2020-12-28 17:01:01
Edited:
2023-10-06 09:03:01
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

Nothing says New Years' Joy like the Henry James classic THE TURN OF THE SCREW!

Special thanks to readers and Rachel Lackey for kicking ass throughout!

January: The Colossus of Ylourgne by Clark Ashton Smith!

Comments

BitterPill

Late to the party, but didn't The Innocents also leave up to question that the Governess accidentally suffocated Miles while holding him? Adding to the "maybe she's crazy, maybe it's Maybelline" theory.

Mandy Reznor (She/It)

We're polishing off Turn of the Screw AND "The Colossus of Ylourgne" is coming next month. Now *this* is gonna be a happy New Year.

Nomnom De Gair

I found an odd parallel to this story's mood with an episode of the TV show: Atlanta titled "Teddy Perkins" (episode 6, season 2) that I've recently added to my Christmas tradition of watching ghost or horror story videos. It's a bottle episode with strong horror movie influences. There's a creepy mansion, but there are no 'ghosts', except there is a lot of 'haunting' in the form of unspoken past abuses. Don't want to say too much without spoiling the episode it's on hulu and the whole series is worth checking out for it's self-awareness on the weirdness and absurdity of the modern world vibe.

Ben A

You two always deliver, and your series on this novel has been excellent and a good listen. As I’ve noted in my other comments, James intended that the reader have many ways to interpret this story. What you said about victimization, though, especially resonates with his exploration of evil through the apparitions, and innocence in the children. It’s definitely open to discussion, but as horrific as any child abuse is, I’d argue the perpetuated victimization of those children even after the abuse has ended is as terrible. It may be that Miles was abused by Quint, and, reading the story almost as allegorical, the ghost of Quint could be regarded as the manifestation of continued victimization of Miles. Perhaps, as you alluded to with respect to Mrs. Grose, only the Governess was willing to see it, or acknowledge it, and in this form the story takes on a very different tone. Like many other pieces of quality literature, the reader can bring a kaleidoscope of interpretations, which makes the stories all the richer. Was the Governess mad? Were the children abused? Is this a tale about real ghosts? Or is it about the haunting of the mind? And was Mrs. Grose really unaware of what had happened to the children and the presence of the ghosts? Or did she choose to ignore and therefore perpetuate the horror? The answer to all of these is probably yes, and most likely no. I realize that Turn of the Screw is far from one of the more uplifting or even simply escapist tales you typically cover (you should have read Taming of the Shrew to get those—no, wait, probably not!). But, I’m glad that you did, as I think it’s a pillar of late Victorian weird fiction. So thanks! I’m looking forward to the (hopefully more cheerful) lineup of the new year.

Jimmy Mac

What exactly happened to Quint? Slipped on the ice? Bump on the head? Accidental death? As you mentioned, so much of this novel takes place in the unspoken, unseen, unwritten space that the reader must fill. This goes back to the rule of withholding the horror to allow the terror to build. And that technique permeates the very exposition of the work whether it is the reasons for Miles' expulsion or the nature of the relationship between the boy and Quint. And that brings us to the death of Quint. A mysterious death on an icy road while in the midst a suspected inappropriate relationship with a child... And the uncle refuses to participate in the events of Bly Manor? Perhaps he has no desire to return to the scene of the crime, his own justified crime. The trajectory is there for another story, a mystery to be solved: sexual abuse, a guilt ridden suicide, a retaliatory murder, and the haunting that follows. "Ms. Grose, we will never speak of these things again." Instead, we are left in a terrifying silence.

Markus Lauerer

In my opinion, Henry James is the most perceptive cartographer of the human psyche in all of literature, and I mean this without exaggeration. There are stories of his, like "The Friends of the Friends" or "The Private Life", where one would struggle to give any kind of plot summary. Yet when reading them, every word rings true on a fundamental level, with James detailing all the perversities, paradoxes and oddities of our very nature.

Elisheba

There IS a musical adaptation of the Turn of the Screw! Well, there is an opera by Benjamin Britten. I didn't like it, but that was a lot due to I hate Britten's music and listening to this podcast I think there is a lot more depth to the story than was reflected in the opera.

Josh Miller

Merry Christmas haha. I know this story is bleak but im glad that you're covering it. After the year 2020 has been, it seems appropriate. Also, I think you're correct to say there's a lack of vocabulary for this this kind of trauma. However, I think covering this kind of stuff helps to give people a better arsenal of tools to process that kind of thing.

DrPattar

My brain trying to stave off the discomfort of knowing what's gonna be covered: "The great wind was abroad." Always thought it was a man personally

Sweatin' to the Great Oldies

There are a great many great works that, I think, employ a death to avoid having to really deal with their own subject matter. In this case, Miles' tragic death provides James (and his readers) with an out. We don't have to endure the conversations that were sure to follow. What, precisely, was going on with Miles? Who failed him? Is he just one of many? How complicit are the other characters in the story? How complicit are we - knowing that there are others in our lives that may well be as haunted and tortured as Miles? I don't blame James for taking this path. It does provide a clear ending, of course. And we see it used by other authors and playwrights. Gayngst-Induced Suicide is a popular trope where an LGBTQ+ character offs themselves as soon as their tragic sexuality is revealed - allowing folks to have a good cry about that tragic death while conveniently side-stepping any real understanding or change. I am frustrated that Miles died because he probably had some really important things to tell us. Things that might have really made a difference.

Tom Král

I absolutely loved this story despite it's very dark themes . Makes me only more upset about how the Netflix adaptation turned out.

Tom Král

I also want to shill my I am Legend recommendation for March is for Draculas. Its a pretty short book but absolutely fantastic and Weird and I think you are going to love it! Happy New Year and thank you for everything!

Peter Larsen

It's kind of hard to say anything more about this story that hasn't been elided already. I think it's a mistake to say that it is definitely about child abuse (while not saying that it's definitely not about child abuse, either), because any answer causes the supersaturated solution of uncertainty, suspicion, and dread to precipitate a story that is somehow less than than the undefined solution. The impact is in the uncertainty and the balance between options. The more theories, the better. My personal favorite (although completely unintended by James, I imagine) is that The Governess and Mrs. Grose (and maybe Flora and Miss Jessel) are all the same person, endlessly repeating the unspoken trauma at different stages in their lives, partnered by The Uncle, Quint, and Miles. We see this most perfectly when the Governess is startled by Quint at the window, then startles Mrs. Grose in turn. Everything repeats

Avlin Starfall

Remember guys, according to Lovecraft 30s is middle aged. You all said yourself it's your getting closer to dying 30s.

Cacodaemoniacal

I think the enduring strength of this book is the skill with which he balances all the possibilities on a pinhead. ALL the horrible yet possible explanations and forbidden practices are up for grabs, and the confusion creates dread.

Red Wizard Matt

I agree with you guys that this was a really difficult one. Thanks for toughing it out.