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Extra Credit 007 - Cabinet of Curiosities (Patreon)

Published:
2023-01-30 12:51:52
Edited:
2023-01-30 12:58:50
Imported:
2026-06
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We're discussing our thoughts on the Lovecraft adaptations from the Netflix series Cabinet of Curiosities: "Pickman's Model" and "Dreams in the Witch House."

Video link for this episode: https://youtu.be/CCDlaGjBKZc

Next up: a month of love stories from Robert Aickman, starting with The Stains!

Comments

Aaron La Vene

Excited this was the topic! Haven’t listened yet. Already know I’ll have a bone to pick once I do.

Grahm Eberhardt

*pushes up glasses* Actually, Chris, I think you'll find that the line in the Beverly Hillbillies theme is "black gold" not "liquid gold".

Jeppe Mulich

I think Chris is spot on - The Autopsy and Graveyard Rats are the standouts of the show. Meanwhile, the two Lovecraft shorts are by far the worst. The rest of the episodes are at least worth a watch. Overall it's the sort of anthology where each instalment really bears the fingerprint of its director, for better (Amirpour, Cosmatos) or worse (Hardwicke).

Matt Bustin

The Viewing was great, cosmic horror and Peter Weller! Rats was fun, but boy did the “Lovecraft” stories suck.

Deus Moribundis

I enjoyed all of the films even if the Lovecraftian ones fizzled out. I definitely left this collection of films with a favorite. I already know no one is going to give The Murmuring its flowers in this venue, so I will. Although it is a conventional ghost story it is a masterpiece. The characters are so deep and sympathetic. The way they establish the underlying issues in their relationship, and keep those themes ebbing and flowing under the surface, is storytelling at its best. Director Jennifer Kent did such a great job here and I've become a fan, I need to watch her other films. The set design, the sound design costumes, everything is just perfect. Essie Davis and Andrew Lincoln are so beautiful in this film, the tenderness, the underlying heartbreak and even the resentment they were able to capture is just so great. The Murmuring is kind of the opposite of every other episode in this collection, it tells a conventional ghost story in an unconventional way, in a caring way.

Robert Curtin

The Autopsy!!! Ahh such a good story and I think very expertly adapted for this series, I've been hoping you guys would cover the story, it's easily my favorite Shea. The Lovecraft eps were a huge letdown, but we got the Autopsy out of it, so I suppose I can forgive the endeavor.

Nic Wassell

The liquid gold thing from Dreams in the Witch House is one of those 'it just works' things that always just breaks the world for me. He takes a sip and straight away can wander into another plane of existence and find his dead loved one. At this stage of history, how is this stuff not available over the counter in the chemist's by now? Or at least with a prescription. Maybe it's because he *really* believes and it wouldn't work for just anyone but I don't remember it making that point in the film. Plus how is this not problem solved? His sister is basically fine as a ghost and he can go and chat with her for a couple of minutes at a time whenever he wants. Not the worst thing about the adaptation of course, but very annoying.

Eric - Speaker in Digressions

I feel like I wrote this in another thread, but everything I liked and disliked most about the "Pickman's Model" episode was added in the adaptation. It had a nice element of reality horror that made Thurber question his own sanity--a proper Mythos theme, even if it meant reversing his role from the story, so that he alone feared Pickman in a world where no one else seemed to see the problem. But then it got goofy at the end, and the reveal of the ghoul was a literal LOL. Everyone mocked the scrotum-chinned goblin in the Hobbit flick; why go *there* again? (My girlfriend, a born New Englander, says she's heard something approaching Glover's accent before, but it was, as you say, distracting.) On its own merits or as an adaption, I don't know what could have saved "Dreams in the Witch House" other than just turning off sound and subtitles to enjoy some of the the visuals--although I do have an unproveable suspicion that I might have liked it a bit better if the Lovecraft references were a surprise rather than the point: "Did they just say 'Keziah Mason'? I understood that reference!"

Robert D.

Thanks for covering this! I watched all the episodes, but most of them were pretty weak. I’m kind of a completist, so I couldn’t stop. (That’s also the reason why I never got into Terry Pratchett, I just suspect that I would have to read all of them.) Two episodes made it all worth it though: The Autopsy, as you mentioned. I also loved The Outside, which was truly amazing. Not what I expected based on the other episodes. Such a great mix of body horror, satire and dark comedy. The Landlady made me think of The Outside — there is a taxidermy theme in both.

Erik Gordon

Loving the videos gents. And I agree on the assessments. Del Toro let me down on the Lovecraft. Maybe it's better that Mountains didn't happen.

Fred Kiesche

For all the ups and downs, I'm hoping there's another season. The first season is always bumpy.

eleanore adams

Night Gallery is now steaming, and has done multiple Lovecraft adaptations, including Pickman's Model... Could be a fun Patreon review... (Manimal set the precedence for TV reviews...)

Rob Gillie

The version of "Pickman's Model" that Chris did with Grieg Johnson is the best adaptation of that story I've ever seen, and it was only a partial adaptation (no "it was a photo from life!")(gasp!). Del Toro should've hired them to do Pickman -- that would've been fun to watch. But then I think Grieg Johnson should be hired to do all the things.

Thomas Paynter

I feel vindicated. Chad and Chris nailed what bugged me about these. With Pickman's Model, they almost understate the problem with Pickman the protagonist's relationship. Not only did they not really have much of one, the story kept presuming that they did. These guys barely met, had just a few interactions, but somehow their relationship is supposed to be so important that Pickman comes back years later based on it. Just having Thurber initially be fascinated by Pickman's work, only to turn against--just that change--would have made people's motivations make much more sense. As for Dreams, black magic/witchcraft being a form of folk superscience relying on mathematics is the driving idea behind the whole story. I would guess that idea was what inspired Lovecraft to write it at all. Again, the episode would have been improved if, say, Gilman's sister had been sucked into some kind of weird time-space vortex instead of dying, and Gilman was studying such things to try to reach her. Anyway glad to see my opinion shared here--makes me feel less 'old man yells at cloud.'

Eric Sroka

I haven’t listened to the episode yet, but I was really underwhelmed by the series. As noted by others, the Autopsy was probably the best, and I enjoyed the Graveyard Rats. But the Lovecraft episodes were awful. Totally divorced from the source material and jam-packed with modern cliches. For what it’s worth, I think Pickman’s Model is too difficult to adapt for the screen. I’m at the age though where I think I just prefer to read the stories.

Father of Beagles

I think the lovecraft episodes were the weakest episodes. But overall there are some bangers in this series. The outsider, the murmuring, and the autopsy were my favorites. What bugs me about the lovecraft episodes really didn’t use the stories or build on them. They were more inspired by them, which is fine but don’t call them by the stories name. Call it my stalker pickman, or pickman’s truth; or my ghost sister, nuns, and a witch house.

Science Doctor, PhD

I've thought a lot about what makes a good adaptation/remake/reboot/etc. given how frequent these things happen. In the end I think that ideally you'll capture the same feelings, and themes, that the original had (possibly with some updating if the original is very old or whatever) and then honestly change as much else as you like. To me the perfect example would be Carpenter's "The Thing", which many folks would consider to be adapting many themes out of Mountains of Madness, but honestly could not be more different story-wise. Interestingly, my partner watched these with me, she is familiar with Lovecraft stuff through playing Call of Cthulhu with me, and just hearing me ramble, but the only actual story she's read is Innsmouth. She enjoyed Pickman, though she's not really into blood and gore as much so the end was a bit much. She found Witchhouse forgettable. The only thing she knows about that is overhearing me playing "Dreams in the Witchhouse: The rock Opera" and even with that she asked "Isn't there supposed to be math and stuff in this?" So yea, I think they left out these interesting themes. I could care less about changing Walter's backstory, honestly I'd be okay with changing the backstory of all of the characters and fleshing them out as 'people'. I can also see, for a 'larger audience' sense, maybe drop some of the weird book names and outer-god references. But I think by abandoning the "Link between science and math" and instead having a paint-by-numbers ghost story they lose everything. Weirdly I'd even have been sort of okay if it was a 'good' story, even if it was totally different. But to me it was really contrived and boring. I watched all of the episodes and I really loved The Autopsy, and really enjoyed "The Murmuring" in a more artistic way, and a way that was 'very 'different than the tone of the others. Graveyard Rats was okay, I enjoyed the ride well enough, but not so much the full product. I liked "Lot 36" in a "Tales from the Crypt" kind of way. My partner's favorite was "The Outside", she liked that they turned fitting in as a woman in the world into a really interesting horror movie, and a good mixture of black comedy with horror.

Jason Thompson

Maybe I just care more about “Pickman’s Model,” but it is amazing to me that they didn’t just so with the original straight-up CHUD/werewolf/cannibals plot of the original. Like, so that wasn’t cool enough, they had to change it to a bunch of vague (and equally cliche) “mad art will drice you maddddd” stuff? The original “Witch House” story is a little more unfamiliar and high-concept so I can see the director going “this is too boring and hard to explain”, but “Pickman’s Model” is just about secret cannibal mutants! The easiest horror trope in the book!

Tomas Rawlings

Agree on our estemed hosts take on the two Lovecrat episodes of Cabinet of Curiosities, I'd add the idea in Dreams of the Witch House that a religion can protect you, just broke the comsic horror totally. However I'd note that 2 other episodes, Lot 36 is very good and The Viewing has a real sense of the comsic horror and I'd recomend it.

The Aaron Campbell Studio

It’s this kind of shit that’s gonna allow AI to take over. People be like, “ if this is the best we can do might as well give the robots a shot”.

James Duffy

When you mentioned about the ghost sister being able to wall on the floor, it made me wonder. What if ghosts are real but they cannot interact with the physical universe whatsoever, including gravity. Hence, you die and your spirit pops out but is immediately abandoned by the Earth, the Sun, and even the Milky Way, as they all spin off across the universe. Leaving you to drift for eternity into the void. A universe full of insane spirits just drifting forever.

Patrick W

Pickman’s was bad. Probably one of the easiest Lovecraft stories to tell straight and they turned it into…whatever that was. Dreams was unwatchable. I turned it off, I saw an appalling low budget production last year that was better than this thing. However, the first episode was brilliant to start the series, Rats was entertaining, and Autopsy was brilliant. Whatever else was in the bag was “fine”, I have no complaints but no real recollection either. I just wish they hadn’t even bothered with the two Lovecraft stories.

Aaron La Vene

I knew it I have a bone to pick. I think Pickmans model was a brilliant introduction to lovecraft to those who may not know his work. Yes they took creative liberties, some unecessary. However the madness, the unconscionable madness to me is very lovecraftian. They saw that the world is not as they knew and once they learned that they went mad. That is one of lovecrafts most famous lines that ignorance protects us and once we know the truth it will be enough to drive us to insanity and pickman was able to see and show them the truth. I think that was a great introduction to that concept, even with its flaws. It hit on one of lovecrafts most important themes. I could go into more detail of some disagreements and some things I agree with in your discussion on this one but I think that’s my main gripe. Dreams of the witch house was blasphemous and I was very very angry about it so not gonna defend that one in any way.

Jack Saul

I was really struck that Guy Davis, who has worked on World of Darkness books and Hellboy/ BPRD did the creature design for many of these, and is an excellent. concept artist, but these weren't very inspiring....Im at a loss as to what went wrong here.

Karl Haikara

I didn't watch the Lovecraft adaptations either for the same reason Chad was saying, no one I know who did liked it, and after hearing this episode I'll continue to not watch them, but I'll give the other ones a watch, I can imagine Graveyard Rats being a fun one

Pearce Duncan

Super weird that the episodes from the director of Twilight and the director of the Firestarter remake weren’t great