Home
Creators
Search Recent Random
Posts
Search DMs Popular Hash Lookup Tags Random
Importer
Import FAQ
Register Favorites Keys Review DMs Logout
Community
Telegram ThePornDude
Home Creators Posts Import Register Favorites Logout

Short Rest: Pathfinder Two-Shot (Part 1) (Patreon)

Published:
2024-05-31 21:37:36
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Downloads

Content

Check out NADDPOD's Patreon exclusive after show! This week, we discuss our first foray into Pathfinder 2E.

Sound Mixing and Editing by Trevor Lyon

Files

Comments

Wouter Van Goey

Haha wonderful timing likely just finished the previous episode 10 second ago. Love the funky spells like dazzling your enemy with an exaggerated injury, very different vibe from 5e!

Satya

The thing that feels counterintuitive particularly when you first start playing Pathfinder second edition, with plus one seeming, weak is that every plus one is a 10% increase for a critical which means that they matter a lot more than they do in other systems.

ChungleDownBingus

As a DM of many many years across a few platforms, this really confirmed that this system sounds like an absolute nightmare and super validated my lifelong aversion to pathfinder These guys make it fun but they could make licking paint a hilarious adventure

Peter J. Kremer

Hell yeah! Really enjoyed hearing about how you all felt about PF2e. It's been my preferred system for a few years now, and it seems I feel a lot like Murph about it. That is, while the system itself is mechanically tight, there are a few sticking points (especially while learning) that could use some sanding-down where actual play is concerned. Looking forward to next week's episode! Big props to Caldwell for taking the leap and giving it a shot! As an aside, I'd like to throw out a tip that helped me conceptualize stuff like the Aid action. When I'm running a game, if a player says they want to lower someone down a ledge with a rope, I just treat that as an Athletics check in place of the other person climbing. Makes sense to me, and keeps your +0 Wizard from falling down a cliff because a +1 wasn't enough to make a difference.

fatcamp (Dan T.)

That seashell of sound makes for great Talkboy™ shenanigans.

Zachary Frederickson

Hey! As a Pathfinder 2e GM of many years now, I'd like to share some insights re: your discussion of Aid being a little weak. First, part of it is definitely a result of being level 1. The default Aid DC is 15(though I often set it as "slightly easier than the DC of the check itself" to better scale with higher levels), which is around 50/50 for a trained PC at level 1, but becomes extremely easy to hit or crit as you increase in level and in proficiency. On that point, the higher your proficiency, the greater the bonus you give when critting on Aid! It still stays pretty low, but that's really because it's a reaction, intended for use in encounters. For exploration, you would use Follow the Expert! It wouldn't have worked in the exact situation, but if Hellbiscuit was an Expert in Athletics, then Cinnamon and Krudbert would be able to follow his lead, effectively becoming proficient in the given skill checks as long as they followed Hellbiscuit's lead. I'm a huge PF2e mark, and y'all are one of my favorite D&D podcasts, so I'm really glad to see y'all approaching the game with such open minds and hearts, and I'm extremely pleased to hear that you enjoyed yourselves overall!

Clemming

It's been so awesome seeing you guys try this out! You can use treat wounds between combats to get lots of non magical healing, which acts like short rests. It's a daunting system to start but I find it takes a ton of weight off the DM as levels increase which makes it way easier to run despite being more theoretically complicated.

Chase

This was awesome. I really love pf2e and listening to y'all talk about it (thorns and all!) was awesome. Really looking forward to more, I'd LOVE if y'all did a 10 episode arc.

Chase

Also if you're really into the heist idea pathfinder has some cool heist mechanics with their Infiltration subsystem! Definitely worth checking out.

Chip

You can cast a cantrip and a leveled spell in 5e on the same round! Just one has to be a Bonus Action.

Jor Elare

I've basically implemented "secret rolls" into my DnD campaign! Due to how much high level intruige the party is dealing with I've told my players that I will roll insight for them for key NPCs, on really good rolls I will whisper secret info to them, or feed them bad intel on bad rolls. I think it helps avoid someone rolling a 1 and the whole table knowing that the opposite of what they hear is true

Matthew Yap

Not finished with the EP yet but the secret insight checks I think is to keep players from subconsciously altering their play because they know they rolled poorly or rolled well on an insight check, also it's to help alleviate a party trying to roll essentially the same insight check multiple times, fishing for a larger roll so as to be more secure in the information gleaned

Dom

Great episode! I'm a big pathfinder 2e stan. Next time around might be worth looking into treat wounds action. It's a 10 minute activity (but you can get a feat to use it as 2 actions) that basically lets you heal someone for 2d8 if you succeed on a DC15 medicine roll.

muchpatreoning

I'd like to share some of my real-world Pathfinder experience, sorry, that it is seems so negative, but it's just my experience of a player with some game design experience and who prefers role-play heavy narrative driven campaigns (also sorry for the long comment, I hope Patreon wold collapse it so it does not take the whole wall for everyone): 1) a lot of things are secret checks in Pathfinder. This system really fixes a lot of non-existent problems (meta-gaming). So it's not possible to create such moments, as "remember that nat1 you rolled before", like that one huge moment in Starstruck for example, because it would be a secret check and reveal would not feel impactful. 2) dazzled is a condition, that makes everything concealed to you. So it's a DC5 check, which is a 20% to miss. It's somewhat fun, when you do it to an enemy. But it is an absolute nightmare when it is used against you, especially as a spellcaster. Now imagine you are a cleric and want to heal your dying party member, stuck in a web. Due to webs, it would be concealed to you. So you cast a heal spell, but have to pass DC5 check to TARGET AN ALLY. If you don't pass it, the spell is simply lost. 3) also, there are a lot of conditions and traits, and most of them are nested. Like dazzled, for example. You usually can't just see what something does, you have to search the tree of conditions/traits, and during irl play it slows down the game even more. 4) 3-action economy is a big thing in Pathfinder! At first glance, you can do so much more, you can do 3 attacks or move whenever you want... But in real play, you realise, that your actual action economy is halved, compared to D&D, because everything is an action. In D&D you can attack 2 times (with no penalties), move, open the door and move some more. In Pathfinder that would be 2-turn activity or more... You have to take an action to stove/take out the weapon, action to interact with the door, action to move closer to the door, and then through the door. If you drop prone and you are a dual-weapon user, it's 3 action to stand up and take your weapons in hands, which is a full turn. Also, you can't just attack 3 times, because there is a multiple-attack-penalty, and it's hard to hit even 1 time in Pathfinder, because of the system math. If you are a spellcaster, you basically have 2 actions in a 3-action game, because almost all of your spells use 2 actions, so you only have 1 action left and not movement+object interaction+bonus action. That is why there are no rules on multiple spell castings - it is simply impossible for the most parts. Heal is the only spell that actually uses 3-action economy. 5) Help action by default is useless. Mathematically it's better NOT to help anyone, because you statistically you would actually harm the roll on lower levels. Which is a weird design decision, if you ask me. 6) Spellcasters are much weaker then marshals, that is true. You feel it even if the level would be the same. Firstly, because of the action economy, as I've written above. Secondly, the spells are much weaker in general. There are 1400 spells in the game, but only like 5 spells, that are really good and everyone in the community always talks about them, when justifying, why spellcasters are not weak. Thirdly, and this is a big thing, because of the proficiencies (game math) In d&d in general you have 65% chance to hit anything your level. In Pathfinder, it's much different. Fighters are the best hitting class in the game, because it has +2 to hit compared to every other marshal. Which also means you will crit more often because of 10-over crit rules. Now that actually corresponds with what you often get in D&D. You hit on 8-9+, and crit on 18-20. That is only for the first attack, remember, the second attack is -5 to hit, and the third attack is -10 to hit. Every other marshal hits on ~9-10, which is 50% success rate. Spellcaster attack hits on 12, on some levels even 13. So it's a 35% success rate. With a limited resource of spell slots that is. That is why in Pf, you never use attack spells, but use save-spells, but they are designed so that enemy succeeds most of the time, when targetting weakest save, so whenever you see spell damage, you have to half it to see how would it actually perform. Also, against higher levels, like bosses most control spells are absolutely useless. Because of Incapacitation trait. Some of the spells actually only work if the enemy rolls nat1, and only then. So it's 5% success rate. Oh, also Marshals often get +2 to hit by surrounding enemies to get them Off-Guard (Flat footed), but spellcasters do not have such benefits. So as a spellcaster your best bet is to buff a Fighter in the party. 7) Flexible Initiative with different skills is actually cool and that is one thing in Pathfinder that imho works really well. And Dex is not the king stat as in d&d 8) Everything gives like +1 / +2. So it does not matter that much, compared to Advantage/Disadvantage. It flattens out the drama. 9) It's funny that Emily picked a lot of funny spells I had on my characters. What you realise after playing the system for a year or so, that the system actually punishes you for picking such spells. You would fail them often or they would not come into play enough to be useful. A general advice if you want to continue to play, is pick a spell by the effect on enemy save success, because it is a more likely outcome in Pathfinder. And also, you can buy staves and wands or even scrolls for a situationally useful spells, not to waste your highly limited resources. 10) About crit success and crit failure - the math for a more difficult encounter also balanced so that you as a player would mostly miss, while the enemy would often crit you. Mathematically it works, but as a player, it just does not feel right, that you miss a lot. It's absolutely not like in D&D. Every nice thing in Pf is already balanced in and expected from you by default,so you don't get anything extra, compared to d&d5e, you get much less, if you don't pick the most optimised options (like role-play spells, for example) 11) oh, if you hate Stun condition in D&D - it's much much more of a problem in Pathfinder (at higher levels). Because all of your control spells do not work on the enemies, but enemies really easily control you, because of the point above and Incapacitation. Grapples without checks and mathematically impossible DC to Escape, Suggestion spells, that stop you from playing all together and no way to Dispel it, because of how low the chance of it is. Oh boy, prepare for misery. 12) Yeah, crafting is also a really weak skill and you can't do a lot of things with that. It's very under-developed. 13) Murph's idea about rules and +1s in Pf is absolutely correct, yeah, lol. 14) Shield is cool in Pathfinder, I agree with that. You can look up Everything Shields on Pathfinder Infinite that improves this part of the game even more. 15) Shoving into flanking position is not the play in Pf, unfortunately. Because Grapple, Trip and Shove are all Attacks, so it raises your MAP. So you'd get -3 compared to a normal Strike. That's another example of how the design and options are great in theory, but in practice it does not work. "Wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" is what some people say about the system, and after playing for a whole year, I unfortunately agree. And yes, Shoving does not make someone Prone, it is Trip. 16) Rogues get bonus to damage not because of stealth, but because of Off-guard (flanking). So you just walk around the enemy to be on the opposite side from your buddy. 17) Ok, most of creatures not having Reacting Strike (Attack of Opportunity) is actually a big improvement imho, because it makes the battles more dynamic, that is a plus to Pathfinder. And Step as an action to avoid AoO is nice. 18) The things Murph is worried about: keeping track of stuff is impossible in actual play above level 5. I've played up to level 16 and I absolutely have no idea how to play this system just with pencil and paper. There are so-so many NESTED conditions that you have to track, that I just don't know how to do it offline. I would probably keep FoundryVTT open all the time to roll, so that it would calculate everything. Because to calculate 4 bonuses enemy has and 7 conditions and 5 bonuses you have on every turn is a nightmare. It is Mathfinder in the end. In the end, I am glad that you are enjoying the new system! It's always a great thing to learn new stuff. And I'm looking forward to this journey you have. I'd like to be wrong about the system, but I don't think I am, unfortunately. It is absolutely a wonderful system for dungeon crawling, if you are into this. And that is why Beginner Box is basically a dungeon crawl, and the most favourite Pathfinder Adventure Path - Abomination Vaults - is also a massive dungeon crawl. But personally I am not into such kind of play and I do not think it's the best system for role-play heavy actual play podcasts. I would suggest to look into 13th age system, which is a system designed by lead designers of dnd3e and 4e, but done in a very rules-light do-what-you-want-just-have-fun not corporate design way. And the rulebook is very easy to read, because it's done in conversational way and the designers argue on how to do something in the book and show two different versions, lol Or maybe look into Tales of the Valiant, which is a new interpretation of dnd5e by Kobold Press. Once again, sorry for the long post and sorry that it probably reads so negatively and not hospitable. I'm just very passionate about ttrpg game design and wished Pathfinder worked as advertised for my kind of games. Sorry once again, and love you all, thank you for what you do! <3

muchpatreoning

welp, it did not collapse the comment...

Peter J. Kremer

You never need to roll a miss chance to Heal, because if someone were to try and resist Heal, it would be a Fort save. If you don't need to roll to hit, you don't need to roll the flat check. Also, I'm not going to read through too closely on all this because it's a novel, but so much of what you're talking about just hasn't been my experience at all. I've played through high level PF2e and not had any trouble tracking modifiers, save in one fight with a bunch of mooks where the PCs were all level 19. Compared to the recent Junior Year combats in Fantasy High, it's been a breeze. It helps that you *can't* just keep stacking things; at most, you only need to worry about circumstance, status, and item bonuses/penalties. If anyone has "seven conditions and five bonuses," frankly, you're doing something wrong and I don't even know what. That sounds like madness.

muchpatreoning

I'm not saying all of the conditions give the bonus, I absolutely know that they do not stack, so no, we don't do anything wrong. But you have to keep track about all the situational conditions, like is it a fear effect, is it a mental effect, does this thing applies to skill checks or only attacks, or everything and there are multiple of all those things all at once: like all of the auras, potion effects, diseases, persistent damage, multiple conditions. You might not use the whole extend of the system, if you are playing pen and paper, and your players do not use a lot of stuff, so it might be easier for you, and that is a valid option to play like that. But my high level play campaigns feel absolutely impossible without Foundry. Also, you have to roll DC5 to target ANY creature that is concealed to you, that includes your party members. That is in the definition of a concealed condition. Anyway, that is not the place for rules lawyering and arguing, I just described my personal experience. It might be different for you and I accept it.

Jacob Stringer

Hear me out, Sanctorum 10 episode pathfinder series

Peter J. Kremer

We've certainly had different experiences. Fair enough. Have a good one.

Shane H

Instead of doing so many help actions, consider allowing a strong character. Do a strength check to pick that character up themselves. Take the onus completely away from the weak character in that scenario possibly?

Peter J. Kremer

This is often what I'll do. Sure, it's an Athletics check to "Climb," and that's spelled out. That said, lowering a person down on a rope would also 100% be an Athletics check. Were this 5e, I think most folks would have no hesitation to make that ruling. I think one of the things that can trip people up as they get used to PF2e, is thinking that just because way more actions are mechanically spelled out, those are the only things people can do. No TTRPG will ever address every possible scenario; that's why the GM is there, after all. Makes sense to me. 🤷

Ben Wilcox

And then Caldwell said, "I'll take my other two actions to drown!" Absolutely killed me hahaha. Because Beverley was really trying to sell that drowning scene

Peter J. Kremer

One big thing I appreciate about PF2e is just how well the encounter budget system works. The only issues I've had with it have been when poisons come into play at super low level, and a bit of shakiness at level 1 specifically. All things considered, that's pretty good.

Crimson Claw

Personally I'd love to see more 2e gameplay in the future! I think the system is just the right level of detail for the crew The important thing is to just use lower level monsters. Narrative carries farther in Pathfinder that way

Xacris

My table decided that the Aid action was also a tad weak, so we adopted a houserule suggested by The Rules Lawyer. The PC attempting the aid check rolls against the same DC as the person they are aiding, but the results are as follows: Crit Success +4 bonus to the ally! Success +2 bonus to the ally Failure +1 bonus to the ally Crit Failure the ally's roll is unaffected So basically, as long as you get within 10 of the DC your ally is attempting, you help, and you can wildly succeed to give a big bonus. This worked out really well for my table! I also allow similar skill checks where applicable, and encourage the use of Lore skills

Xacris

OH and the biggest thing that you really need to keep in mind in Pathfinder is that everyone has Hero Points, which are basically Luck Points for rerolls, everyone gets one per session and the GM is advised to hand them out frequently. Similar to handing out Inspiration, or when you would hand out advantage in 5E, I would give a player a hero point instead. They are super important due to the general lack of Advantage

SweetBabyJ

I appreciate the points raised about pathfinder working as a performative system, and while I get the concerns (and ultimately y’all know where you want to steer your ship so take my 2 cents for what it’s worth) I’d point to a show like The Glass Cannon Podcast as an example of a pathfinder show that, while there is more strategy and rule discussion than other shows in the space, doesn’t (imo and in the opinion of many others) suffer for it narratively. Again, maybe you see things in that show that you don’t prefer for your own and would want to avoid, but if you have the time I’d recommend diving into a couple of episodes (don’t listen to one combat heavy episode and form an opinion based solely on that, I would say) to see for yourself if you haven’t already. Pathfinder offers so many more options and customization than we’re used to with 5e and I’d be thrilled to death to listen to the places you could go with the system in a longer form story. I’ll always be a fan no matter what you decide but my personal bias is very Pathfinder leaning these days, just to be transparent lol.

SweetBabyJ

(I also will add that although the little baby boosts of ‘you do this to give a companion +1 or +2’ still do seem a little silly to me too, I have seen a number of videos on YouTube (by people smarter than I lol) that try to prove that they are statistically relevant and not quite as piddly and insignificant as they may seem at first blush, for what that’s worth)

Abigail Harden

I have to say as a Pathfinder native, secret roles suck and feel like your GM stealing your roles 😒

Peter J. Kremer

Play a lot of PF2e and I tend to agree. I prefer to just roll stuff myself, and/or to have the players do it themselves when I'm running things. I don't particularly care about stuff being secret *unless* you're playing something like Season of Ghosts, where maintaining the mystery is integral to the experience.

JR Lonergan

Buffs and debuffs are HUGELY important in PF2E. It's actually part of the reason I think the 2 Crew would prefer pathfinder.....their goofy interactions can be used to buff and debuff in important ways which are very useful in combat as well as interactions with NPCs

Cosmopunk

Yes! I was going to point this out, I think if the gang had known about / use Hero points they'd have had less trouble. It's hard to remember they're q replenishing resource like anything else.

Dingo

I ran a Pathfinder campaign that was low fantasy set in a world based on the Redwall series, and we had a blast. I am giving myself a thorn for not experiencing all of these incredible spells.

Richard Hanton-Rutherford

It’s like Zelda vs. a slightly different version of Zelda. Pathfinder is alternate DnD.

Richard Hanton-Rutherford

I hope we get to hear them try some more different systems. I think Emily could really have fun GMing a PBTA style fiction-first game.

Eric Olberding

Blades in the dark is a good system if you want to try it out

Canis Corax

I highly recommend using pathbuilder, especially to newbies! There's an app for android (not apple though) and a web browser version. Full access is a one time payment, I think like $5. Absolutely worth it. I struggle to keep track of all the feats and modifiers and conditions, and it makes playing so much easier. Also, does this mean we can start sending in PF2e court cases?

Jessica Petra

I'm super excited for the crew to try short campaigns with different systems. There are so many great ones out there. That said, if they do revisit Pathfinder, I'd love to see Emily play a Witch. It's such a fun class in pathfinder. We had Fia in C2 but it would be very cool to see her be able to let loose with an actual class in a system that supports it.

JubileeRulez

So did I miss it or did Jake not let us know what Hellbiscuit's race and such were inbetween the having the runs talks?

Mason McCauley

I wonder if the 2 crew would like Call of Cthulhu. The rules feel more narrative focused rather than combat like 5e and Pathfinder. I’ve found it’s pretty easy to DM too because all difficulty checks are using the d100 based on character ability, rather than the DM trying to figure out how hard something is. Bonus points that they can do more noir detective stories!

Thomas

There is a few online character sheet programs that have all your bonuses and proficiencies, and everything else you could need that would really help streamline adding up your rolls so your not spending a lot of time trying to do math at higher levels

Sam Taz

My husband and I would love to listen to Caldwell DM a full anime pathfinder campaign!!

Peter J. Kremer

If he did, I didn't notice. Until such time as I see official word, I'm just going to assume his ancestry was "Li'l Guy."

Boomclaw the Twice-Dead Kobold

Wanted to add something: Treat Wounds also removes the Wounded condition which is really scary in 2e (basically adds permanent failed Death Saves each time you drop.) There's also a great Skill Feat called Battle Medicine that as 1 Action, you can give someone the HP from Treat Wounds once per day (but not remove Wounded.)

Boomclaw the Twice-Dead Kobold

Wanted to echo what other people have said, debuffs and aids may seem small, but they're not just raising your success rate but your critical range as well. If you want to see this illustrated, the MNMaxed Extinction Curse campaign has a character who specializes in making enemies Frightened (minus 1,2,3,etc to EVERYTHING.)

Sojik

I see others have explained PF2E mechanics in the comments already re:aid and bonuses and penalty stacking. So I won't repeat them. I was pretty impressed with y'all's understanding of the rules for being brand new even with extensive 5E experience. There is a bit of a learning curve for PF2E I think but you guys did pretty good so far and you didn't let the rules stop you from having fun and roleplaying. Great ep!

Sojik

Embrace them and punish your GM by getting the dubious knowledge feat. If you fail a secret knowledge check the GM has to give you some true information and some false information.

Sojik

Same. Found NADDPod and then discovered PF2E and Glass Cannon Network and I still love NADDPod but I'm really much more interested in the more mechanical PF2E system now. I even GM a table now running the Paizo Adventure Path Season of Ghosts, an Asian horror campaign set in Tian Xia.

polyglottal cracker

Regarding secret rolls, the metagaming isn't with Insight itself, but with the fact that a player would know a low roll failed and therefore know not to trust what the DM says. This isn't as much of an issue with players like the Boobs, who are able to avoid metagaming too much. It's more for the jabroni players out there.

Sojik

Y'all must play Delta Green. It is the best. It's like X-Files. Their published Operations (adventures) are stupendous.

tautcarabiner

NADDPOD x Hideous Laughter Pod collab

Grrafe

I haven't played 2e myself, but if I ever ran a game and used secret checks, I feel like if a player ever asked to roll something I'd already rolled for them secretly, I'd let them have an additional roll. I know the mechanic is made to keep people from meta-gaming, but assuming I have trust with my players (and I wouldn't play with people I don't have a base trust with), I would probably treat secret rolls similar to passive perception. And I would definitely ask for a good number of secret rolls to be made from my players. You could obscure a dice tray and let a player throw in their dice so only you know the result, while making the player feel like they aren't losing out on rolls. And also having that meta-level of fun at the table, since you know something us up, but not what is going on. Honestly, I feel like secret rolls can be really fun. You, as a DM, just have to be aware of how you use them, how you present them, and how your players take to them. Because the biggest rule in this system is have fun.

Chase

Outside of combat there's a mechanic called "follow the expert" - if one of your team members has expert proficiency in something (much more common than in DND, everyone gets skills that increase to expert, master, and legendary proficiency), you can "follow their lead" and automatically get to add your level + 2 (or higher) to your roll, with no extra checks. Aid is more commonly used in combat, and is super open ended - you could Aid an Ally's attack by using Deception to distract the enemy, for example. At high levels it adds +3 or +4 to the roll, which is insanely powerful due to the way crits work

tatsuo takao

Personally I feel like secret check sounds the most useful when you have an NPC talking to the party, npc lies but you don't want to outwardly say give me an insight check

Argonautica

I'll say a lot of their adventure paths are very specific, like you're doing a heist, you're revolutionaries, you're students, etc. That I think you could take as a loose outline/inspiration.

Jason Clark

Same exact point but from a slightly different perspective - it also makes the person you're helping 10% less likely to critically fail, which really helps it shine a little better in environmental challenges like climbing a cliff face

Reece Brogden

I’d love it if y’all did a mini shot for monster of the week

Charlie

Just wanted to say that Emily's take on Ezren is absolutely hilarious, and the dynamic between all the PCs genuinely had me giggling long after listening. I completely get y'all's concern as to whether PF2e is podcast friendly or not. I don't have a podcast, so I can't speak from experience on that front, but I'll say that after GMing it for 3 years, it's genuinely a fantastic, robust, and well-balanced system, and once you're used to all the bits and bobs like stacking bonuses, remembering conditions, etc, it runs like a dream! Of course, it's not perfect, and generally the remaster solves a lot of issues. Also, as per 'rule zero' in the core rulebook, you folks can deffo customise the rules a lil to better suit the needs of table. Anyway, Caldwell, you did spectacularly at GMing, keep up the great work!

Finn

This was a delight. I need more

Georgia

YES emily is iconic how was that ever a question!! cinnamon my best friend my twin flame.... if they dont do more pathfinder soon i'll explode into viscera

A. Godfrey

Burnt Cook Book Party is a very entertaining Pathfinder podcast!

Katie P.

You guys have convinced me-I think I want to run a pathfinder game, maybe do a worldbuilding session first, like A Quiet Year or something, but I'm really liking how crunchy in a good way pathfinder sounds

Xacris

on the livestream he revealed him to be a goblin!

Alyssa Martin

It was confirmed in the painting party that he is a goblin

DumbLittleChair

I'm so excited to see more pathfinder from y'all, it's so cool to see y'all liking the system and wanting to play more! In case any of y'all read this I wanna mention some stuff about Aid/Help and going more social-encounter based. 1. I'm not sure if you did this in your game, but if you want to keep Aid on the more useful side: make the Aid DC 15 regardless of what you're trying to help with. Aid is very powerful at high level, but is at its weakest at low-level, which might mean finding other ways of helping your teammates. Also check out the "follow the expert" activity! 2. Pathfinder has set rules for a lot of social actions like "Lie", "Sense Motive", "Make an Impression", etc. These can be really handy if you want a specific way to adjudicate these kinds of things, but they are only there if you want/need them--you can just rule those kinds of things how you like. If you want to gamify non-combat things, try checking out the Victory Point system in the GM Core / Gamemastery Guide and see if you like it! It's a super simple system that can be used for all sorts of things; they have examples for using it for things like infiltrations and chases.

Tork

Thorns are just Garfield that haven’t been lasagna

J. Arden Attig

I resubscribed to listen to this ep. I love pf2e! I really hope you guys enjoy playing it 😁

DumbLittleChair

I'm on a similar page to Murph that I prefer PF2e mechanically but I was unsure how it would work in the actual-play format. Guncle Caldwell and everyone else killed it though! I think being an edited podcast actually makes your format better for PF2e than a lot of other shows that are unedited, since you can experience the fun crunch but cut out any math or rules clarification that might bog down the show.

Mads Ammitzbøll

Loved this EP Secret checks are meant to make characters act with more hesitency than PCs who know that they just rolled a NAT20, its to stop people from becoming walking lie detectors after rolling insight "oh I rolled a 4 so I know he's lying" Also.. Jake bringing a level3 is massive, crazy move. I really encourage you guys trying out more of the system before homebrewing fixes.

Mads Ammitzbøll

Also just wanna add, Paizo is putting out starfinder2e really soon, its perfectly compatible with pathfinder2e And it is not lost on me that it would've been perfect for all of season3, magitech, guns and all the fixings come fully prepped and ready.

Mads Ammitzbøll

Speaking of heist games, Guncle Caldwell look up the victory point system/infiltration system in the Gamemastery Guide/GM Core, its so good

Monk3yTouch3r

Thorns are just Sonics without Rings

SweetBabyJ

Well explained. Secret checks add something cool and important to the game imo

SweetBabyJ

Enjoy! I just started not too long ago now with the beginners box and the subsequent adventure ‘Troubles in Otari,’ and it’s been a blast so far:)

Hammy

I hope you guys get a chance to just try a home game of Pathfinder and get crunchy as hell with some battle mats

Adamantium

Spice Heist plz!!! 🥺🙏🏽🌶️

Charlie

Nice, enjoy! It's just the right amount of crunch without being too restrictive whilst being a bit more lenient in some aspects; it's pretty flexible. It's also pretty easy to GM, surprisingly!

Cassandra J Wattenburger

Huge rose for you guys picking up PF2e! Really hope to see more of this from you guys

Jennifer Pereira

Love the idea of a local election type campaign…especially as we go into election season. Maybe pairing it with mild advocacy for being election workers/volunteers. But that’s my inner civic wizard talking!

J. Arden Attig

This is from the pf2e subreddit today from u/tauroctanos. It is from a thread asking for advice converting from DnD to Pathfinder. "Specific to 5e converts: resist the urge to immediately homebrew. Pathfinder has a hugely comprehensive set of rules, and if something doesn't make sense or feels weird, it's likely you're either misunderstanding the intent or missing some extra rule sidebar that explains it. Homebrew can be fun, but in a system with bonuses and action economy creating such a tight balance curve it's really easy to accidentally homebrew something super broken that sucks the challenge out of the game and makes one character massively outshine the rest of the party Archives of Nethys is your friend. Poke around, get familiar, get used to the search function. https://pf2easy.com/ is also your friend. So many nifty tools and lists for things like spells by level, summon lists, etc Remember there are no contested roles in Pathfinder. If you're rolling, it's against a DC or a table. Magic items are mandatory. Seriously. If you give your players too little, they will feel very weak. Magic items are accounted for in the game balance. Honestly, err on the side of too much loot, you have a lot more leeway for going over than under. A lot of stuff can be massively useful, but is extremely situational. A great example is crafting: it doesn't give you a meaningful discount on the item, so it's mostly useless if you're in a town/city that's at your level or higher, but huge if you're out in the wilderness with no stores. Super dependent on the specific campaign you're running. If your players are new, they're likely going to fall back on three attacks per turn. Try to find ways to encourage them to do something else; the -10 MAP on the third attack makes it pretty lackluster. Encourage them to explore other, non attack actions to throw in. Intimidate, feint, Bon Mot, etc If you outnumber your foes, try to deny them actions (trip, grapple, move out of range). If Enemies outnumber you, focus fire and try to take them down as fast as you can. This applies to both sides of fights. Spellcasters will feel weak next to martials at first. They will catch up over time. Give them scrolls as loot if you feel like they're running out of juice too fast for the pace you're going for. Make sure your martials are getting the runes they need on their weapons. A +1 feels small, but the increase in crit chance is king. Also, striking runes; not having that extra damage die will be felt, trust me."

Professor Pratt

What I think i love most, above all else, is Jake’s growth as an RPG player. Ive been a fan since day 1, campaign 1 and feel that I have grown as a player in tandem with Jake. Ive had the pleasure to see two live shows. I was hesitant about you folks doing PF, and to be honest I couldn’t say why. Now, I am so excited to join you all on this journey and learn along. Love ya!!!

Omar Mtz

Did they creat a cult in the first hour??😆

Crangar’s Little Helper

Am I crazy in thinking that Jake never described their character? Just that they were from a farm? Are they a human? I can’t picture them.

JustSomeKnob

I would love to have Caldwell do a pathfinder campaign oppa Trinivale style. Those unique and interesting spells really sold me

Crangar’s Little Helper

My main campaign just switched over to PF2. I went from a Sorcerer to an Oracle Class. The spells are all SO COOL. I also love how useful the game makes utility spells way more useful than Dnd5e. PF2 supports utility spells and not just damage spells.

Phoenix

Please do more pathfinder content 😍 For aid my table uses +4 on a crit, +2 on a success, +1 on a failure, and -1 on a crit fail. The DC is the same for the person aiding. The rules lawyer has a good video on homebrew rules for aid. Works well for lower levels.

Kevin Garcia

The shell recorder spell is literally a tone dial from One Piece!!!

Adrian

More pathfinder! Amazingly played guys! I want to Gm some PF and this will come as a great help, is really fun to listen to you guys and learn the system

Daniel Drapp

Absolutely more Pathfinder!! I've never experienced it before and it was so cool and just rad as hell

DM Joe

Emily hoping she honored the pre-written backstory of Ezren is so funny. Of course she did it justice, more than any PC I've seen. Also, I think Pathfinder only adds to the crews near-endless creativity. 5e can feel restricted because of how streamlined it is, whereas pathfinder feels like there is just so much more substance.

Cooper Erikson

The secret rolls I've seen used most often in Pathfinder 2e actual plays are centered around knowledge checks which are much bigger in Pathfinder. The GM rolls the check behind the screen and on a fail instead of just saying you don't know anything they actually give false information to represent PC's remnering something incorrectly. An example of this is an investigator class rolling a knowledge check in combat to find out strengths and weaknesses of a new monster. The GM rolls behind the screen and the check fails so the DM tells them the creature is weak to fire when they are actually resistant. Then the next turn a party caster tries a fire spell and realizes that it wasn't actually as effective as the check lead them to belive. One of the great things with this is the opertunity for micro roll playing in combat with this.

E. Beer

the Medicine skill is good, meta and important.

Max Wirestone

Absolutely loved this and can’t wait for part two — although I’m a little anxious that they don’t know to treat wounds, which is an important piece of Pathfinder balancing.

TJ Rafferty

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but what if a success on a help roll allowed the player to roll an extra d4 and 2d4 on a critical help?

Adam!!!!!

having it be like bardic makes a whole lot more sense than a measly +1. plus they can add like a homebrew feat that allows the help to be a d6/d8.

Adam!!!!!

not to sound like an absolute nerd, but pathfinder sounds a lot more like an MMO than 5e does.

TJ Rafferty

I was thinking the same thing

Chase

Rules as written, Aid becomes more powerful as the game progresses - by level 7+ it becomes trivial to grant a +3 or +4 to an ally's roll as long as you're willing to spend your actions and reaction to do so. There's also a common house rule by The Rules Lawyer that makes the DC harder, but gives a +1 on failure, +2 on success, and +4 on critical success. This can help Aid feel more impactful at low levels. If they were going to house rule it, I would recommend this adjustment, which is in line with the game's balance. I know it's not obvious and not immediately intuitive if you aren't familiar with the system, but a +1 is deceptively powerful in pf2e because of the 4 degrees of success system. Making it a d6 or d8 would be truly game breakingly powerful.

Colleen Brenner

I could listen to Bryan Murphy’s lil goblin voice for the rest of my life

EmperorGreed

I need emily, or honestly murph with crudbert, to look at the spell inside ropes

Evil Grimace

I really hope their adventuring party name becomes 'The Twin Flames'.

The_Protease_Inhibitor

Pathbuilder is some of the best money I’ve spent on anything, the number of hours I’ve spent building characters…

ACK

I wonder if the idea with helps in Pathfinder is that while it's individually less powerful, you could have a bunch of people stacking it. Four people help me with something to give me a +5. This was how it worked in the sci fi system Traveller iirc.

ACK

A plus five assuming one crits or has a feat or something.

ABigdude

Two crew! You got to try WFRP and the enemy within campaign! It’s all the things you talked about in the short rest!

Owen Smith

Yes and no. You can stack bonuses in Pathfinder, but only bonuses in different categories stack. Aid grants a circumstance bonus, and a roll can only benefit from one of those at a time. There's one other challenge to many people trying to Aid: if anyone critically fails their Aid check, that's a -1 circumstance penalty to the check! So: one PC trying to Aid can be useful, but beyond that players have to be a bit more creative to get those stacking bonuses: flanking, grabbing, knocking prone, demoralizing, hexing, blessing, bardic singing, etc.

Owen Smith

1d4 would be super-powerful because it will impact both success _and_ critical success chances. I would not advise it. Aid did get a big boost recently, though: it used to be a DC 20 check by default, which made it very hard to use at lower levels, but now the default is DC 15.

Charlie

What Owen said xD To add to that, the Guidance cantrip is also a thing, which doesn't require a roll and gives a +1 Status bonus, a different category of bonus, which stacks with Circumstance bonuses, so the usual Help + Guidance combo in 5e is a thing in PF, it just comes in the form of flat bonuses instead advantage and 1d4. Also, something that I've not seen mentioned much: Hero points! They're pretty much Luck points, but every player is entitled to one at the start of every session, and automatically gain one every hour of play, so players should be using them often

Bull

I think one thing they will notice the more they play is that the numbers are tight. The math is so close, so many times each session a +1 or -1 made the difference. When I first started playing I was like oh that’s it, but +\- 1 comes into play a lot. An it feels really good if you get a crit bc of -1 ac to off guard or someone has an aura that gives +1 and you pass by just that amount. It makes playing a support buffer/debugger more satisfying also. I think the more they play pf2e they will get hooked like so many, myself included. - remaster made things so much better, ie help action, easier to hit the roll and +1 or 2. Will find the remaster more enjoyable.

An_Armed_Bear

With regards to silly spells, there was a typo in a preview at one point that said the spell "Dinosaur Form" was "Dinosaur Fort". People joked about how this should be a real spell, and eventually Paizo made it real in one of the books. You just summon a small fort guarded by 4 T. rexes.

Scott Pateros

Would be sick if you could bring in a GM who knows Pathfinder back to front to run a campaign so you guys can all learn fun characters

Nick Lerche

You guys heard of DC20? We just play tested last weekend. Similar action economy placing movement as an action point etc. look into it and lmk!

muchpatreoning

Just to double-check, I've taken a look at all the conditions at today's session we had. It was 14 active effects at the max both positive and negative that one character had on and Foundry kept track. 14, Karl! And the lowest was like ~7. During the fight, there is usually 5 modifiers to each "to hit" roll and 3 (would be separate, if played offline) damage types rolls with different resistances. Online, FoundryVTT does all the math and most of the condition tracking and all of that. But it is still overwhelms to the point, that everyone stops the role-play and starts to just play tactically out of character. And we are rather happy-to-role-play group. No way I'm playing this pen and paper theatre-of-the-mind! We are level 15. We fought a boss. Due to math of Pathfinder, with everyone attacking ~2 times in a turn, we hit like 2-3 attacks each round collectively as a party. There were multiple of turns, when you calculate something tactical and optimal, utilize all of the off-guards and enemy debuffs...But then the enemy just crit succeeds on a save and you crit miss on an attack and basically do nothing the whole turn. That, targeting the lowest save, and not even playing spellcasters (anymore). And that was not even that hard of an encounter. The party was not really in that much danger, we've seen much worse and had character deaths (spellcasters, obv). It is just the nature of balanced single-creature encounters in Pathfinder. The system is very balanced mathematically. But not really "balanced" for fun. So it's the polar opposite from 5e.

Declane Gilhooley

Looking forward to Ep2 Also I wonder if we'll hear from Bev. Doesn't need to be like Hardwan, maybe a message for him or something like that. I feel seeing as 2/3 have shown up it's only fair lol unless Murph want to just edge us on that hahah

Echo

Tokens rolled with your handful of dice might be a good way to keep track of all the fiddly little +1's and such, help with keeping the math easy and quick

Nikolaus Cox

I gottah ask, what IS Hellbiscuit? Because I don’t think it’s ever established what he is. I get the impression that he’s just a human guy, but what were everyone else’s impressions ?

Nic Elliott

As someone who plays both D&D 5e and Pathfinder 2e, I thought that Caldwell did an awesome job GMing for the first time in the system! It’s a lot more fiddly, for sure. Those +/-1 or +/-2 bonuses and penalties actually make a massive difference, especially once you get to about level three or four and your bonuses are in the double digits. Doubling the damage bonus as well as the dice is huge. However, combat in Pathfinder is absolutely based on using a grid, and is far, far more tactical, which I can see being less interesting in an audio-only format. The mechanics provide exponentially more support for social encounters, exploration, and different types of activities like chases and heists that would be awesome to see.

schnoodle

Many of the designers of pf2e also designed dnd4e, which did indeed was inspired by a lot of mmo-style concepts.

schnoodle

Coming from 5e, you hear "+1" and think it's not a lot, but once you start playing... It really can feel big, let alone +2 from a critical aid (which is extremely easy at later levels to get).

schnoodle

You're completely in the right to do so. Every game I've played in from different GMs is basically what you're saying. The point of TTRPG is player agency, so let them roll tbh. I've only ever seen people *request* secret rolls from the player (there's ways in VTT and irl to do this), which becomes fun and suspenseful used correctly.

schnoodle

Also, listening to pf2e combat tactics vs 5e tactics is way more interesting and fun, IMO. So many more possibilities. Mechanics support the narrative, is the direction of pf2e.

Tnm1401

Our table has a homebrew rule for aid you may like: successfully helping someone adds +1 AND another +2 per skill rank the helper possesses (+3 total for trained, +5 total for expert, etc)

Pietje Leijdekker

If you're planning on playing more PF you should look into critical succes and critical fail cards! They add fun little buffs or debuffs when rolling nat 20s and nat 1s in combat

kiarra burd

cinnamon needs to get the seashell of stolen sound spell! one recording of his dad's shady dealings and justice can be dealt to the scoundrel

Owen Smith

And that +2 can become a +3 or even +4 if you max out the proficiency of the skill you're aiding with! So yeah, at high levels it becomes a potentially huge bonus... but you have to work for that bonus.

Owen Smith

My analysis/rebuttal based on my experience: 1. The GM has discretion to open up these rolls if the group prefers. 2. Yes, conditions are nasty, which is why much of the game focuses on avoiding or mitigating (or leveraging!) them. I think this is a feature, not a bug. Dazzled/blinded don't happen often IME. 3. Agreed. 4. It's not that you can do more or less on your Pathfinder turn than D&D, it's that it's more tactical. Pathfinder gives you interesting choices to make on how to spend your turn. Note that spellcasters need not cast every turn, and many have useful one-action magic options. 5. You mean Aid, and I thoroughly disagree, particularly after the remaster tweak. It is less useful at lower levels than higher levels, and it resists 5e-style spamming. But it is far, far from useless IME. 6. Thoroughly disagree. Casters can target AC, Fort, Reflex, or Will, depending on what the foe is weak in, or do any number of crucial support activities. Martials can't nearly as well. There are tons of awesome spells. I never feel out of options as a caster. 7. Agreed. 8. Yet every +1 matters. (Look at what happened when flanking meant Hellbiscuit just hit.) But they can also stack up to a 4-point swing or more. 9. Emily picked crazy rare stuff from the dregs of the catalog that I wouldn't have dreamed of going near. And it was damn near perfect for the purposes of this podcast! No notes. 10. For a difficult encounter you need to create advantages so you don't miss a lot. This might be something you can get better at with your group. I like that boss fights in Pathfinder feel like actual boss fights!

squalor and splendor

This. Smfor anyone interested, pf2e expects you to heal between every combat. For instance one of my players specced hard into it and heals like 50-70 each time at level 9

Beardo

In case you didn't happen to watch Jake's Painting Party or Caldwell's drawing Livestream, Jake confirmed that Hellbiscuit was a goblin, but forgot to mention to anyone including Caldwell, had human fighter written on his character sheet, and didn't visually describe him besides his pitchfork and tree 🤣

Nikolaus Cox

Amazing! Thank you so much! So I haven’t got around to watching those yet, and was gradually using context clues to build up a case for Hellbiscuit being a freaky halfling - but this clears everything up! Much appreciated. It is hysterical that no-one knew and nothing was communicating 😂

Olivia Spencer

I would love a roll for shoes one shot from you guys, I feel like that would be hilarious

Grimmie

If we had a nickel for every time Emily's TTRPG characters had a dragon named Cinnamon...we would have ten cents

muchpatreoning

I understand your points, they are all correct from a different point of view. I just want to make couple of notes: 5) I was talking about pre-remaster rules, that the gang were playing. While "useless" is clearly a hyperbola, RAW Aid was almost always the worst choice, because at first levels you have more chances to harm, then to help. That is not a debate, that's just math. And at higher levels, your character have much more useful options, then Aid. After remaster it is now as it should have been from the start. However I still think it's underpowered, but that already is a matter of opinion. 4) 1-action spells in pf are similar to what Bonus Actions spells are in d&d. But now it comes with the choice between movement, interaction and 1-action casting. Oh, and also Sustaining, which limits spellcaster choices even more. 4, 6, 8, 10) That all again is a matter of preference. For me, the problem with the system is that it has only one way to play the game and it is balanced around it. This way is stacking numerical bonuses. Using some of the utility spells like Slow and Maze and buff marshals. For me, this all limits the role-playing aspect, because it feels like a video game. Suboptimal character driven options are just not supported by the system. But for someone how enjoys "tactical crunch" aspect more, then improv, it is of course should be a better experience, then d&d.

Jack el destripador

Jake’s Mind: Oh okay he’ll work at the lumber farm. Okay, why would he be kicked out?.. … What if he stole a tree? 😭😭

Melon Bread

Being a witch is so fun. You get to have a little guy!

MilkManMD

I think you guys should definitely experiment with more mini series campaigns with different systems more often.

Adrian Ski

i HIGHLY recommend Burnt Cookbook Party for a pathfinder podcast. I cannot describe how wonderful the writing is, the cast, and the PCs are so fucking creative