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The Besties Battle Bracket: the best second game (Patreon)

Published:
2024-05-07 07:01:01
Imported:
2026-06

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In honor of the Early Access release of Hades 2, the Besties host a showdown for the best second entry in a video game series. Hades creators got their big idea right on the first try, but many studios responsible for the biggest video game franchises needed a second draft to reach their potential. That's part of the magic of video games: they're iterative, constantly building on what came before them!

The rubric

Which is a more dramatic improvement over the first game?

Which is the more iconic game?

Tiebreaker: Which has the better third game?

The bracket:

Batman Arkham City vs. Portal 2

Animal Crossing Wild World vs Pokemon Silver/Gold

Destiny 2 vs. Half-Life 2

Just Cause 2 vs. Far Cry 2

Mario Kart 64 vs. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2

Street Fighter 2 vs. Mega Man 2

Assassin's Creed 2 vs. Uncharted 2

Mass Effect 2 vs. Halo 2

The big question for the patrons:

What are your top three third games of all time?

Files

Comments

David Klein

the omission of my favorite game, 2004’s spider man 2, doesn’t phase me; this bracket is stacked. Excited to listen!

Pooshie

3. SoulCalibur II, as the sequel to Soul Calibur, itself the sequel to Soul Edge, is just a true delight of the GameCube/PS2 Era. 2. Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations may not look much different from the previous two, it may not play much different from the previous two, but from a narrative perspective could not be more important. It provides a deeply satisfying climax and conclusion to a story that you didn't even realize the series has been telling this whole time. Death is not the end of friendship. Death is not the end of love. Death is not the end of evil. Death is not the end of justice. 1. Persona 2: Eternal Punishment is the third Persona game after Persona and Persona 2: Innocent Sin. Much like AA3, P2EP ties together and concludes a story only hinted at by its predecessors. It is bigger, deeper, and more haunting than its previous games. The mechanics are more interesting. There's so much more to do. And the cast of characters, made entirely of returning party members and npcs from previous games, provides a uniquely adult perspective on the series' overarching theme of carving out a place in a world where you don't quite belong. It also did the impossible: it made me actually appreciate Persona 1.

David Miller

Not necessarily a beefy series as far as actual gameplay goes, but I'd throw my hat in for Mario Party 3. I'm sure everyone's familiar w/ the dynamics of MP series but MP3 was the last one that had that gritty N64 feel. Great minigames, a little bit of extra unlockable "story mode" stuff. Not that it perfected the series by any means, but as far as nostalgia factor, this one hits more than the original 2.

Matthew Parsons

Let me deliberately stretch the prompt a little: 3. Inscryption. It's Daniel Mullins' third commercial game, and they all take place in a shared universe. The upward trajectory of the three is wild in my opinion, it's like the first three Radiohead albums manifesting as indie games. 2. Immortality. Sam Barlow's third FMV game. The first two were mixed successes imo (yes, even Her Story). But the FMV mechanics work perfectly this time around because the story is set in Hollywood, where the big question is whether you're being successfully manipulated by what you see on screen. 1. Tales from Off-Peak City, Vol. 1. Technically Cosmo D's FOURTH game, and the first in a proposed series of its own. But it makes the most sense as a sequel to Off-Peak and the Norwood Suite. Norwood is arguably a richer explorable environment, but Tales Vol. 1 is MUCH prettier. An absolute classic for walking sim sickos.

Elklodge

1. Assassin’s Creed III - I was on Chapter 9 when the game menu glitched out, navigated to the profile selection screen and somehow deleted my save. Even it knew how boring it was and took the initiative to stop me from playing. I give a lot of kudos to that game for taking initiative and caring for the player. 2. Monster Hunter Tri/3 Ultimate - while it’s by no means perfect, I think exploring verticality through swimming was a step in the right direction that set the stage for 4 to shine with it’s improved navigation. Plus it introduced switchaxe, awesome monsters (brachydios, ceadeus, etc), and made it more accessible to play in the US by bringing the franchise to Nintendo for a bit 3. Fallout 3 - such a formative moment for me as far as learning about the importance of aesthetics and environmental storytelling in games

Adrian Kenyon

Morrowind Super Metroid A Link to The Past Mario Party 3 as a bonus

Jeffrey Williams

Griffin “Mass Effect 1 was a bad game” Them some fighting words.

Andy Brommel

I know it’s not the besties’ specific jam but this did get me thinking about an RTS showdown of StarCraft 2 vs Age of Empires 2…

Casey Hyde

I know video games aren't just Pac-man anymore but leaving out Ms. Pac-man is an oversight imo. It's a perfect game and the only Pac-man game worth playing.

Sven

The jump from Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2 truly was massive. I forced myself to play Mass Effect 1, and those driving sessions nearly drove me bonkers.

Sven

Would Majora's Mask count? I've always preferred it over Ocarina of Time.

MechRepairGuy

I may be in the minority here, but I loved the multiplayer in Assassin's Creed II. I thought it was such a fun game of cat and mouse, and a completely different multiplayer experience compared to anything else at the time. Running around corners and blending in with different skills to confuse your pursuer at the last second was super fun. Plus, the bitch slap you got to dole out when they screwed up brought me joy.

Ellis Smith

WarCraft III, Gears of War 3, [EDIT: Breath of Fire III].

AWildBrozerker

I'm surprised we didn't have KH2 on here. On the other hand, this made me want to go back and play the Arkham games skipping orgins.

Kyle Van Son

Top three third games of all time that AREN'T Super Metroid, Super Mario Bros 3, and Link to the Past, which is just unfair: Deus Ex: Human Revolution Dark Souls III Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story Honorable mentions to Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (& Knuckles) since you kinda need that second half to make a full game, and Pikmin 3, since it's blown out of the water by Pikmin 4.

Andrew Birmingham

The unhinged cold opens are worth the price of admission. Keep bullying these nerds juice.

Evan Grossman

As someone else mentioned, AoE2 is an all time classic sequel. By far the best in the series and to this day extremely active and alive with updates and a competitive scene. Would like to also mention Star Fox 64, I think a much bigger improvement compared to Super Mario Kart -> Mario Kart 64. I am biased and prefer Super Mario Kart to Mario Kart 64, so maybe I am way off. But Start Fox on SNES is pretty much unplayable, and Star Fox 64 is one of my favorite zone out games of all time. Sonic 2 is another classic sequel. People really love Sonic 3 and Knuckles, but Sonic 2 is my favorite in terms of music and environments. It is such a huge leap up from the first Sonic game in terms of over feel of just going fast through levels. The additions of Tails, spin dashing, and the even the half pipe bonus levels are really peak Sonic to me.

Chane Larkin

Pretty sure the moment from ME2 that Justin referenced (Thane dying?) - is actually from ME3 I love 1 and 3 btw, despite the gameplays issues of the original and missteps in the finale of 3

L

We gonna talk about how good Griffin’s Master Chief was?

Andrew van Baarsen

I'm SO baffled at the ME discussion because I really love Mass Effect 1 :(. I find ME2 better only slightly better

16-Xray

Honorable mentions to Sid Meier's Civilization 2 (you are legally required to include his name when discussing the franchise) and Diablo 2, but I get why they didn't make the list. For 3rd entries, GTA 3 and Fallout 3 stand out, but the winner by the Besties rubric would have to be Zelda: A Link to the Past. "I'm not arguing a point, I'm speaking truth... it's up to you all to divine what you will from it". Just some prime cut Justin McElroy, great stuff everyone.

Adam Lindeman

Devil May Cry 3 Super Metroid LttP Honorable mention for Bubsy 3D, which I think of as iconic in its awfulness. Not quite Superman 64 levels of bad, but still.

The Wizard Snore

Is it crazy to say hades 2 might clear this entire bracket?

Nevskii

Like others here have said, I think y’all would be surprised by how many people absolutely love Mass Effect 1. It was surreal to hear all four of you talking as though there is a consensus that it’s bad. To be sure, I think that Mass Effect 2 is an immense improvement on the first game, and deserves its place in the final ranking. But Mass Effect 1 is a superb RPG, especially in context as a game from 2007 but also today in the context of Legendary Edition.

Lou Sheridan

I gotta give some love to Sly 2, one of the games I played the most as a kid (along with Sly 3). It was a massive improvement over the original Sly Cooper for me, since I was able to wander around the levels as much as I wanted after finishing the actual missions

emjaybee_3

Gotta shout out Suikoden II here

stormandozone

I'd love a best Live service bracket lead by Griffin! Also a MMORPG episode or retrospective by you guys would be fun. With wow, ffxiv and destiny 2 all sort of at the end of their expected lifespan and now charting new courses, a look back would be interesting. Thanks for all you guys do, and stay safe this storm season!

InstantFrench

I was surprised that Super Smash Brothers Melee on Gamecube was not a part of this bracket! It greatly improved basically everything from the N64 version and still has a large following in the competitive scene.

Clay

For my top 3 third games, I think I have to go with Halo 3 at number 1, Mass Effect 3 at number 2, and Total War: Warhammer 3 at number 3. Halo 3 was such an amazing time for me, I played it with family, played it with friends, played it with total strangers! It felt like the biggest game in the world for a time there. Mass Effect 3 is also my fave in the trilogy, I even liked the ending when I first played and liked the extended cut even more. And Total Warhammer 3 is pretty much the culmination of the Warhammer series, with Immortal Empires being the perfect way to play that game.

Shart Carbuncle

For an iconic 2 that eclipses its 1, I’d nominate Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver. Who cares about Blood Omen? Only weirdos. 3 3s: uh… I’m partial to Wipeout 3, though most would probably consider XL/2097 the more iconic one; does Metal Slug X count as the third?; Super Ghouls ‘n Ghosts.

Theresa

Shoutout to Dishonored 2

Devin White

The pedantic in me has to point out that Far Cry 2 should not have been eligible for this list. That’s because the second Far Cry game was Far Cry Instincts released for consoles. And if you’re going to consider the GBA Mario Kart game a sequel to 64, I think it’s only fair to say that Instincts was a sequel to the first Far Cry.

Travis

I hit a wall with ME 1 remastered and I feel like Justin has given me the permission to skip it and go straight to ME 2

Mary Harvey

Not a single kingdom hearts 2…interesting…

X_Blade_Mage

I knew it wasn't going to be here, but still bummed that The Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, didn't show up

David

Halo 3 being a bad game is a wild hill that Plante and Russ have decided to die on. This has come up a few time sin the last few years.

Jonathan Shea

Thank you Justin for defense of Halo 3 I cannot believe the slander it’s receiving

Luke

Ding dinga linga ding… We gotta send Chris to some improv classes.

BucklingSwashes

I just want to say that WOW, Hades II is already incredible and it's wild to think that it's only in early access. It's HUGE.

Sterling Haws

Just gotta say, for those of you like me with an Android that Loop Hero hit the Google Play store. Very natural fit. Looking forward to delving into that one again on a mobile device. I also see that Skul is headed there soon as well.

Murlocs79

Not a popular game, by any means, but the Timesplitters duology on PS2 was ungodly for its time. TS2 is one of the few titles I still maintain a PS2 setup for.

PokéRedstone

Loved this episode! My only gripe is that Griffin as the resident Pokémon fan failed to bring up either Crystal Version or Emerald Version in this discussion. I’m gonna get in the weeds a bit here, but please know this is just what I would say were I there and not at all me saying this discussion was poor or unentertaining. I don’t think this would’ve changed the outcome all that much, but dismissing Ruby and Sapphire as smaller, more iterative games while ignoring Emerald’s much larger additions to the formula is a little saddening. As for Crystal, it is a better game than Gold or Silver and I feel must also be considered in this conversation. If you want to consider it a separate game, then I would posit this logic leads to Pokémon Blue (Japan) or Pokémon Yellow being the the true “second game” in the franchise. To put a finer point on it: if each generation of Pokémon games is being considered as a whole here, then the whole generation should’ve been considered in the discussion. Instead of GS and RS it should’ve been GSC and RSE.

Wezzo

My only gripe with this list is that Uncharted 2 probably should replace Arkham City. Having played the series in the Nathan Drake collection, Uncharted 2 *feels* so much better to play than 1. Whereas the Arkham games have different gameplay styles, but they're both great games

Bishibosh44

Did Chris Plant forget about Sonic 2 for Genesis or was he just being polite? Sonic 1 establishes the character and mode of play, Sonic 2 actually feels great and improves on everything. The level designs are fun and often replayable, the bosses are whacky and cool, and it has distinctive look to the sprites. Also, Super Sonic.

specwill

Man, I remember LOVING ME 1, and being kind of disappointed in some of the changes that were made to streamline the game for ME 2. I just wound up feeling like the systems in each ME game lost depth as they went on. But then, I also hated DA:I because the default setup just felt like playing an MMO and not the kind of RPG I expected.

Zak Stein

Im so late to this party but no Kingdom Hearts 2 is heartbreaking