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The Besties Battle Bracket: roguelikes (Patreon)

Published:
2024-06-04 07:01:00
Imported:
2026-06

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Content

In this episode, the Besties must pick the best entry in one of gaming's greatest genres: the roguelike. In a bracket containing Spelunky, Slay the Spire, Hades, and many other modern classics, only one game will walk away with the Besties Battle Bracket title. This raises an important question...

Why would we do this to ourselves?! 

Will your favorite game survive the gauntlet? What about the Besties' friendship?

Listen to find out!

The contenders:

Balatro

Dicey Dungeons

Into the Breach

Enter the Gungeon

Spelunky

Noita

Rogue Legacy 2

Slay the Spire

FTL

Returnal

Prey Mooncrash

Moonlighter

Hades

Binding of Isaac

Nuclear Throne

Dead Cells

Questions for our listeners!

What roguelike do you return to the most? And why?

Files

Comments

ThanaThots

Hades is absolutely my favorite roguelike, but I keep going back to Heroes of Hammerwatch. That is one where it doesn't matter how much time has passed since I last played, I can immediately jump back into it

V Astris

This is an interesting ep just to consider how far “roguelike” has drifted as a term. I wouldn’t have picked any of these to even be on the list — but I don’t think the ones I’d bring up are typically Besties games, either. I appreciate the use of the rubric helping to narrow down what these genres mean for the crew, which is the great part of the podcast — lots of personal stories and insights into how/why things click, or don’t.

PanGalacticGargleBlasterz

Enter the Gungeon is definitely approachable, it was my intro into bullet hell games and the art style, puns, etc are all great. The title song SLAPS. The besties make a big deal about the difficulty but there are some wild gun/item synergies that get unlocked as you go along that really help. This is the game that taught me the trick to bullet hell games: focus on your character and dodging bullets, don't focus on the enemies, having perfect aim, etc. That being said, I like Into the Breach more but they could not be more different from each other. Frantic action versus contemplative strategy.

Thomas Walsh

Oof I feel like the game of the year push for Balatro (by Justin) muddied the waters a bit in what I think needed to be more of a retrospective episode. It’s a good game but it’s fundamentally a score chaser mixed with poker and has the benefit of shiny modern game design. I’m not sure FTL (2012) and Spelunky (2008), for instance, got enough credit for their formative work in the genre. But maybe I’m just grumpy about how quickly FTL was dropped to the #4 spot below Balatro when I think it has a strong argument for #1 even when using their rubric.

EtherEli

I feel like Hades and Returnal are similar and maybe would have made a good matchup, but Hades would have won, because both incorporate the mechanics of roguelikes within a larger narrative action game and are also beautiful. Returnal is a little too “git gud” in its approach towards players while Hades has way more meta-progression and accessibility that way, but both do rely on genuine player skill and are just plain old fun to play. That’s something I think the Isaac v Hades discussion didn’t give enough weight to - the action of Hades is just more fun, in my opinion.

EtherEli

You know what else is pretty great about this list? So many of them are inexpensive! I just looked a bunch of them up on Steam, and regular price, they’re mostly $10-20. Edit: Returnal notwithstanding lol

Joseph Lupo

Definitely missed opportunity for the tiebreaker to be “which game has Northernlion published more videos of” but otherwise great episode!

Cam

FTL has been, for about 10 years now, the very first game I install on every new computer I get. Even if I don't play it that often now, it's such a perfect "ahh shit the Internet is down" game.

Ben

Oof that decision to cut Hades out of the top 5 broke my heart while listening. That said, I get the logic. For me Hades is the best *game* on the entire list, but it is not the best *roguelike*. Also, I love Balatro, but I agree with the recency bias comments here. One of the things that appeals about the genre for me is the near infinite replayability and so many of these are games that I still pick up and play years later. I just don't think we've had enough time to tell if Balatro will have that longevity. Russ is probably right that it will, but still too early to say for sure imo. Anyway, great discussion, best bonus bracket episode yet imo.

Devin White

This was a really fun episode! I’m glad we’re getting more bracket episodes. I think it’s where the discussion gets the most lively, and I think you have a format of discussion that really works.

Shannequin

Delightfully surprised Hades didn't win. Y'all are full of surprises! ❤️

Sierra Powers

I'm not really fan of roguelikes, but I looooove Hades. So much. I've been thinking about trying Balatro because the Besties recommend it so highly, but now I'm doubtful after this episode. If Hades doesn't really fit in the roguelike "box" neatly and Balatro is a prime example of it, would it really be accessible to someone with my tastes? Like, I've got a pile of JRPGs and more Baldur's Gate 3 playthroughs just ready and waiting for me in my safe space. I don't wanna go busting the Bestie's 100% recommendation success rate over something that might be categorically not my vibe xD

Jim Withington

Wowww did Hades get done dirty. I know yall addressed the Balatro recency bias, but I think it’s still there. Here’s another knock against it: it feels like Vampire Survivors to me. Is it industry changing? Yes. Does it get it hooks into me, especially when I can make a build that really feels game breaking? Also yes. But just like VS, when I get done playing Balatro, I find myself wondering, “why did I play this so long?” And I feel kinda icky. So many games on this list don’t do that for me in the same way. Hades especially, but also FTL, Into the Breach, and Dicey Dungeons (usually). I loved the conversation but I feel like the rubric was flawed and made the episode/ arguments possible, but what it really did was make for a weird list that feels off. Maybe next time the bracket has the rubric for the first round but yall talk it out more past that?

PokéRedstone

I have to agree with these comments that Balatro is hard running on recency bias here.

Mtuck

This has been my favourite bracket episode by far, the conversation was so considered and it made the final list feel really good. At least as good as it can when certain favs have to be cut (RIP dead cells and hades 🥲)

Icky Slicky

Great episode! Y'all should check out "Nightmare Kart", it's a new indie racing game based on Bloodborne/Fromsoft games, but with a PS1 era aesthetic. Super small team, and free to download!! I'd love to hear what y'all think <3

Kathryn

Made the mistake of starting this episode mid-work day while I was walking back from an appointment because I instantly wanted to be playing balatro instead of going back to work

Ross Felder

This episode went in directions I was not expecting, and really exemplifies why these bracket episodes are so good. With this genre, I could have seen people just putting their thumb on the scale for all their darlings. I'm excited for the goty bracket after this year of monthly bracket practice. Side note, surprised Griffin didn't bring Heroes of Hammerwatch to the table.

Goositrous

Anyone nostalgic for Nuclear Throne/Enter the Gungeon should try Voidigo. It’s another twin stick shooter roguelite that does a really good job of capturing the fun kinda tactile feel of nuclear throne, and it’s a lot more approachable than Gungeon

Justin K

"literally and figuratively" I might be listening to too many McElroy shows, but that must have been a reference to the latest MBMBAM, right?

Maxwell

Now is such a good time to play Risk of Rain 2 with the DLC coming out soon! Would be a great option for a lull in releases

SpaceDuck

The best way to get a better feel for Risk of Rain 2 is to play Risk of Rain Returns. I don't know that RoR2 would have clicked for me had I not played the first one and Risk of Rain Returns did a phenomenal job of polishing the first game back into a enjoyable current day experience.

jtingl

Man, I really don't like rogue likes. Lol. I think my vote would be Hades, but even that one is too easy for me to imagine as a tight 8-12 hour dungeon crawler or action RPG that I would have enjoyed much more.

Ian

I love into the breach and balatro. I need a sub list of roguelikes that don't involve being good at action games

Epsilon

This is my favorite episode yet! I wish you guys did “Let’s Play” for all the games you talked about, especially “Into the Breach”

thrillhou

I'm surprised that Backpack Hero hasn't gotten any love. The town parts were a little unpolished, and it was too easy, but it's fun, easy to learn, has a story, a killer gameplay loop, lots of run diversity, and even if most of my runs involve steamrolling everything once I hit critical mass, it's still so satisfying to tweak your backpack looking for that optimal positioning. Also, Balatro is amazing, I've beaten gold stake with every deck and am 2/3rds of the way to getting gold stickers on every joker, but there are too many runs where are you are just flat out doomed. When I die in Slay the Spire, it's very rare that I can't imagine making some other choices along the way would have saved me, but there are a lot of runs in Balatro where you don't get planet cards, or faceplant out of the gate. For that reason I definitely think Spire deserves to come out ahead.

Andrew van Baarsen

If you're not getting through all 8 antes in balatro at least 50% of the time you're likely misunderstanding the rules on a fundamental level

Andrew van Baarsen

Returnal on the list but not Vampire Survivors or Inscryption is... fascinating

Paul McHugh

This episode finally got me to try Balatro and now 20 hours later in less than a week, you guys are right it's up there with the very best.

Milly Farouki

I think I'm broken because Balatro just won't click for me. I played more hours of Slay the Spire than bears mentioning, and I've really enjoyed some other games on here like Dead Cells and Hades. I played Balatro a bit, won (at least the way you win in the early game), and no part of my brain thought "must do that again". I just can't get a hook. I know apparently "everyone loves it" but I can't figure out why I'd keep playing.

Hannah

This episode was an interesting one for me. I think I went in expecting a discussion about "what is the best rougelike game?", and it was actually "what game is the best at being the definition of a rougelike?". This meant I was pretty confused when some games got dismissed over others. It's a small nuance, I know, and I'm sure there will be people saying "duh, that's obvious" but it totally threw me this episode. Still, happy to see the Balatro love. It's nice to see roguelikes that don't rely on being good at twitchy combat being celebrated.

MoxalMox

The fact that it’s “a game that is more of a roguelike” instead of “the more fun game” is CRAZY. The fact that hades was contender for best game of the decade with you guys and plant fully hates BOI for fully legitimate reasons is truly wild. We all know that hades is, moment to moment, a more enjoyable experience as a whole. I have 100+ hours in both but the experience of binding of Isaac doesn’t shine a light on hades.

Jesse Koechling

Maybe someone has mentioned it here, but Edmund McMillen intends to integrate the item description mod into an upcoming update of the game

Trevor Lines

I’ve listened to you guys talk about BOI for years, I’ve finally given it the chance and as someone who doesn’t really like rogue likes it’s pretty fun! Also you guys should try Streets Of Rogue, another fun roguelike that seems to be slept on

Teagan Mulford

Me, having bounced off Balatro, but having logged a hundred hours in Dicey Dungeons: 👁️👄👁️

Ryan Arnold

If Griffin is hopping into Noita, he should check out FuryForged's best minimal wand slot builds videos on youtube. Noita really is so hard to get into that having a few easy to use and strong options can help you get into the fun part of the game a lot faster. https://youtu.be/00Pm9uNs6wU

E2theMFD

Coming in late to the convo. Loved this episode, Justin nailed it in how masturbatory the genre is which is why it felt like each member had a different relationship with their personal favorite resulting in a tense elimination process. Frankly, I think BOI coasted on two facets: a weird and nebulous rubric and the general fear that Russ would turn inside out if Spelunky and BOI were both eliminated.

Jesse Worek

This was a great episode! I really hope you guys do a Best Search Action Game episode in the future!

Daniel Urban

Spoiler!! I would've bet a significant amount of money that the guys' would put Spelunky at #1 given the amount of times it is referenced in the main feed, love this result.

Ginger Jotunn

I love these because I get so mad (playfully) and I want to be in the conversation more than any other version of the pod

Will Metzler

Pitting Hades vs Binding of Isaac is NASTY work

Caleb Ackerman

I really cant stress enough that you should play Risk of Rain 2 when you get the chance (lol with all the time you have). It is an absolute banger. I don't think it is as multiplayer heavy as you feel it is. I own it on xbox, Pc, and switch, and I've played them all at a minimum of 30 hours. I might have a problem

Daniel Anderson

I would love a publishers bracket battle—if you had to take a studios sum total work and those were the only games you got to play for the rest of forever, who ya got??

Craig Wright

Regarding one of Justin's comment, I'm not convinced you can call BOI (paraphrasing) "more actually like Rogue" if you don't have any actual roguelikes on this list, like Nethack or ADOM. This list is all games further away from the actual Rogue on some meaningful axis, I just don't buy that statement as a valid point of comparison for *this* list. There is nothing wrong with this list, to be clear, as a starting point for a discussion, but none are particularly close to Rogue. Also kudos to Chris Plante for the critique of the aesthetics of BOI. I have not been able to play that game for that reason alone.

Takuma

I feel seen by Chris's comment about how he disliked the theme of Binding of Isaac. I feel the same way. I think that the game has a place in the world and it's fine, but I kind of feel alone when it comes to theming and such in games (and other media as well). I like to immerse myself in the games I play and I would like to imagine myself in fun worlds. I get something akin to seasonal affection disorder when a game's color palette is too bland or dark. I quit WoW twice, because I started questing in Darkshore and just felt so down about the environment. It sounds dramatic, but I used to feel less of a gamer, because I didn't like grim and dark and edgy themes. This made me feel validated in some way, even though Chris might not share my sentiment entirely. Keep up the good work, guys! These brackets have been so much fun to listen to

Charlie Dalton

This may be a boring stance, but I'd love if the parameters of these brackets can incorporate the actual enjoyment factor of the game in question more. It can be frustrating when a game has the consensus of being better still gets ousted because it doesn't fit the specific rubric. I get not wanting to have a pure "is A better than B?" conversation, but I could see a third rubric of "which game do we like more?" instead of a tie-breaker in both this and the sequel bracket. These are tons of fun, I just got more out of something like the Final Boss bracket that was a little less in the weeds with the criteria. I may just be biased because I'm not a big fan of roguelikes, but Hades is a hall of famer for me, and it got kinda dumpstered by the criteria here.

melanee

I can’t explain it but I have developed so much affection for FTL over the years that it is my #1 cozy game lol

SeaPickles

While I don't disagree that Balatro is the better game compared to Dicey Dungeons, you abandoned the rubric! This matchup should have gone to the tiebreaker, and Dicey Dungeons blows Balatro out of the water with hours played on a review.

Hallium

Not quite caught up on the patreon episodes… but I’ve been current on the regular feed for a couple years now… and the boys have never once addressed one of the best Roguelike games ever. Streets of Rogue.

Worthysoul

This was a fun one! I feel like Darkest Dungeon should have been involved in the brackets. Really nothing else quite like it