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114: As A Jewish State, with Ronnie Barkan (Patreon)

Published:
2025-06-07 06:06:38
Imported:
2026-06
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Matt and Daniel are joined by organizer of the first Anti-Zionist Jewish Congress, Ronnie Barkan to talk about his upcoming event June 13-15 in Vienna, Zohran Mamdani’s terrifyingly reasonable take on Israel in the New York mayoral primary debate, and Piers Morgan’s cartoonish human oafishness drawing comparisons to an actual cartoon oaf.

Please donate to United Palestinian Appeal: https://upaconnect.org/

The Vienna Anti-Zionist Jewish Congress, June 13-15, 2025: https://www.juedisch-antizionistisch.at/en

COMEDY DATES

Friday August 1st - Francesca and Matt will be at Laughs Comedy Club in Seattle. Tickets here: https://bit.ly/4kFt1xE

Saturday August 2nd - The Bitchuation Room LIVE in Seattle. Tickets here: https://bit.ly/4khBhnK

HOUSTON AUGUST 28 - Francesca and Matt will be at The Punchline in Houston. Tickets: https://www.ticketmaster.com/event/3A0062C3F8154B3F

Subscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbara

What’s The Spin playlist: https://spoti.fi/4kjO9tL

Subscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get  your podcasts.

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Comments

riz

I'm still in bed

riz

And I'm 2 podcasts behind. HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?? Also - still in bed.

Aman

Yes!!! We have what's the spine!!! 🥳🥳

Iqra Javed

Ummm this episode I found myself not agreeing 100% with the guest, but overall the message was great.

Lauren Carfagno

As an Italian American I wholeheartedly agree with the use of fennel seed in the sauce. It’s that little extra something. I also use a tiny bit of nutmeg in my Alfredo. And because of allergies when I make pesto at home I make a sunflower seed and arugula pesto :)

Mungo Franczak

It still blows my mind Israel has all these rules and laws and classifications, yet the state as a whole is entirely devoid of a Constitution.

Jonathan Kadmon

I'm in Houston and you two nutters are coming here at literally the most intolerable hot as balls time of the year not to mention peak hurricane season. I think 8/28 is literally the day before the 20th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. If it's a hurricane free date I guess I'll see you there but dress for tropical heat and humidity and drink plenty of water.

Miss Lizzi

Adam you need to teach everyone how to cook you should start your own cooking show and have Matt and Daniel as the taste testers. I can't see the video of this episode yet but I'm listening to you talking about pizza and I'm getting hungry again damn it

booradleyboo

What's the spine made the cut 🥰

Miss Lizzi

Can j ask probably a really dumb question, where did the whole "Israel has a right to EXIST" thing come from? Who said it? Why was it said? It seems to me like a pretty full on exclamation to make when looked at from my angle, but I'm a non religious uneducated person. And knowing nothing, I find it to be a really weird almost tantrum chucking stomping foot sort of a statement, if a statement could invoke an image or video of it.. why is this person chucking a tanty and saying that? Did a 16 year old girl come up with that hasbara?

Miss Lizzi

John Farnham's "you're the voice" just started blaring in my head. You guys should listen to a classic Aussie song

Grey

Oh I get the stephen king depression kitty. I recommend the IT audiobook because stephen weber is an incredible narrator.

RubbishBinMan

would you believe it was the Israeli government?

RubbishBinMan

I respect Ronnie's activist work and everything but I think his argument about judaism and zionism is incoherent. Considering he doesn't even identify as jewish in any way, why does he feel that he has more ownership over judaism than the majority of jews who are zionists? It's just a fact that zionism has deeply embedded itself into jewish communities around the world, rejecting that as a conflating of judaism and zionism does nothing to address that problem. The conclusion to that observation isn't that we need to have a second holocaust, no one's suggesting that, when people talk about jewish exceptionalism and jewish supremacy, they're responding to very real social phenomena and addressing the label of "jew" as it exists now, as it is instrumentalised to do real harm and destroy discourse, not as Ronnie would like it to be used. Is it wrong that Judaism as an ethnicity, a concept developed by the ideological predecessors to the Nazis, has completely overtaken the label to the point that "secular Jew" or "atheist Jew" isn't even considered a contradiction? Maybe, but it's a fact that that has happened. Judaism has been overtaken by Zionism, that's a material reality. That doesn't mean every jew is collectively responsible for Israel's crimes, it doesn't mean we should regard every jew with suspicion by default, it means Judaism has been overtaken by Zionism. It means jewish communities, not all but by and large are currently using their resources and social power to push zionism around the world, and that needs to be opposed. The conversation needs to start there, and any attempt to argue against that premise is doing harm.

Miss Lizzi

What exactly made them say that though? In response to what or who?

KK

This, every time. (Ronnie and) Tony Greenstein also suffers from this delusion, something that David Miller has corrected them on and been labelled an anti-Semite for! Zionist realism eh....

Maddie Ryskov

I’m going to be completely frank here. How is this anti-zionism conference any different from the COP conferences that is just a lot of hot air and then nothing actually comes out of them? You can’t defeat zionism because you can’t defeat an ideology or an idea. You can’t defeat the crazy cult mentality that these psychopaths believe in. I even think it’s ridiculous to think you can. Which supremacist ideology has ever been stop? Because nazis clearly still exist and South Africa very much still has a problem with white supremacy. I get it, we all feel helpless and want to do something. But sitting in a circle and discussing nitty gritty details while the Palestinians starve and get killed, isn’t helping them. It sounds like liberals/white saviourism. The entire system is broken and right now the people in LA fighting ICE and the LAPD are doing more for the liberation of the Palestinians, and everyone else, then multiple days of talk ever will. No liberation ever came because of talk. It came because of riot and revolution.

Scott Grabel

It’s like the police, ACAB unless proven otherwise

Scott Grabel

This guest has ruffled feathers more than any other on the pod. I first raised an eyebrow 37 minutes in, when said said Zionists were to blame for the west not taking in Jews after WW2. What? Like these countries weren’t plenty antisemitic on their own. Even without plans for Israel in place they still wouldn’t have taken in Jews.

Riaz Abdulla

I disagree with your guest. The KKK are 100% Christian. They believe they are washed in the blood of the lamb via baptism and have accepted Jesus as their savior. That’s the only criteria .

Scott Peterson

Working towards a future where the only Zionists on Earth are Far Right Christian extremists in America.

KK

RB is a secular anti-Zionist member of Palestine Action so is doing some solid work and is much respected from my side - but on this episode of the podcast he made the claim that 'Zionists aren't real Jews'. The podcast hosts both pushed back and said that 'no, they're Jewish supremacists but they're definitely Jewish ' and as such anti-Zionist Jews have work to do specifically in order to combat this specific form of Jewish supremacist oppression against Palestinians' . So far, so good, right? But I'm still confused. And I got wondering what do the sage people on here think RB meant when he said 'Zionists aren't real Jews', and is he right? And what does it mean if he is? or, how is he wrong? Do you think RB meant any / none of the following? Zionism isn't compatible with Judaism - so Zionist Israeli's aren't 'really' Jewish and we should stop thinking of them as Jews. That Judaism 'for him' (as a secular Jew??) isn't compatible with Zionism so the moment you become a Zionist you're no longer Jewish in his eyes but that they still are Jews in their own eyes and that's what counts? Or does he have that white Western Ashkenazim hangup where he wants to protect and preserve some theoretical version of Judaism from the stain of genocide 'in his name' and is doing a lot of work to distance himself from this genocidal entity? I'd appreciate any thoughts - we're all hear to learn. And free Palestine, foremost!