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124: ContrivedPoints (Patreon)

Published:
2025-07-12 01:04:47
Imported:
2026-06
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In a reunion sweeter than the time Cher sang “I Got You Babe” with Sonny on Letterman in November of 1987, Matt and Daniel are joined once again in everlasting podcast harmony. It’s a deep dive into content creator ContraPoints’ book-length explanation of her position on Gaza, and the identity of the conflict’s true victim (ContraPoints).Please donate to Gaza City Flour Fund: http://bit.ly/gazaflourfund

GO SEE MATT IN NORCO, CALIFORNIA! Stand up for Palestine:https://www.eventbrite.com/e/stand-up-for-plestine-comedy-fundraiser-tickets-1370572622609?aff=oddtdtcreator

See Francesca Fiorentini and Matt Lieb!August 1 in Seattle, WA: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/comedians-francesca-fiorentini-and-matt-lieb-tickets-1354093864199August 28 in Houston, TX: https://bit.ly/mattfranhtxSubscribe to the Patreon https://www.patreon.com/badhasbaraWhat’s The Spin playlist: https://spoti.fi/4kjO9tLSubscribe/listen to Bad Hasbara wherever you get  your podcasts.Spotify https://spoti.fi/3HgpxDmApple Podcasts https://apple.co/4kizajt

Files

Comments

Shab

Missed the duo together. Woohooo

Em

i love natalie i’m so sad i wish she hadn’t said anything bc wtf

Ian Weniger

When is ContraPoints gonna get their own Existential Comics strip?

Ian Weniger

If you have wheels for boats outta the water then it AIN'T portaging. Faut PORTER les canots pour faire une PORTAGE, hostie.

vcarly

This got me to unsub her patreon after defending her against people calling her a lib in 2020-2023. They were all right

Hanswurst

Oh boy, this is gonna be interesting! Looking forward to it

Leena

Loggedonrrhea 🙌🙌🙌

Ian Weniger

I wonder if Nat has too much connection to Jewish supremacy to start the conversation out of her bunker.

Ian Weniger

and you avoided the rush to unsub that will come as soon as this drops on YouTube

vcarly

This is a patron only episode they said! But nah Elliot Sang broke the news for me, I've been downvoting bad comments on the post and upvoting the pleas for sanity for 36-48 hrs

vcarly

That Steve Harvey line was fire

vcarly

@Daniel she notoriously poured milk on an effigy of Jordan Peterson. Or maybe it was jk Rowling

Ian Weniger

This episode shoulda used AI to generate Nat in all her glory

C

ContraPoints was huge for me back in the day and I’ve respected her craft for a long time. This is so disappointing. Damnit Natalie!

Hanswurst

I think what Daniel said, that it's audacity of hopelessness is going in the right direction. I think there's reason to suspect it's strategic hopelessness, so once this is over wealthy people like her can come out the bushes and continue being the kind of "leftists" the people with power accept. And they are accepted, amongst other things, because they never pose any real threat to the establishment with their self absorbed behaviour in the first place. Edit: just forgot to say thanks for kicking off this train of thought in me. Cheers!

Shab

Excellent episode 🙏

Jonathan Kadmon

I first found out about contrapoints back around 2019 or 2020. Back then I used to follow people around Michael Brooks like Ben Burgis, who were preoccupied with "cancel culture" and she put out a heavily produced video on how she was a victim of cancel culture. So she was introduced to me as a victim, to which I was sympathetic at first. She presented as a sort of bernie progressive type. But after a few more left-punching takes I was like "okay she's not really a victim, that's just a scam she runs for attention...I'm not even sure she's really a leftist/progressive." and basically havent thought of her from that day to this. Until she suddenly started cropping up in my feed again a few weeks ago with this zionist apologia. Coincidence? Maybe, but I doubt it. Seems more likely to me she's just found herself a new scam to make herself relevant.

Jonathan Kadmon

Doompilled yes! An excellent description of what turned me off and made her irrelevant to me 4 years ago! Perfect!

vcarly

Monthly tangents and ama streams

Jacob King

I used to watch her videos back in the pandemic times. Finding out she’s a Zionist is in the “shocking but not surprising” category. She was “tricked” into appearing on an anti trans podcast series “The Witch Trials of JK Rowling” through the insidious method of not researching the people asking to interview her, I think this was around 2023, so she was already in an antagonistic relationship with her fans when October 7 happened. I’m not defending her at all but I can see her arc.

booradleyboo

Good to have you back, Daniel x

ratbag

What ever happened to Brene Brown?

Mungo Franczak

“And because large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall flag or fail. We shall not go on to the end. We shall not fight in France, we shall not fight on the seas and oceans, we shall not fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall not defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall not fight on the beaches, we shall not fight on the landing grounds, we shall not fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall not fight in the hills; we shall surrender.” -Prime Minister Natalie Loserhill on the fall of Paris and evacuation of the BEF from Dunkirk

Albamar Sanchez

@57:53 When the Moral Duo lose it, so hilarious. Glad I didn't know anything about Contrapoints before this.

Maria Kowal

I just recently watched an episode of Matt Bernstein's podcast with Natalie and her position on trans rights, which I completely agree with, is equivalent to what she seems to hate about the left's position on Palestine. It always baffles me how someone can be so progressive and willing to speak out on one issue that threatens the lives of millions and so blind or hesitant on others. Matt Bernstein at least is willing to talk about it, as we know from when our Matt guested.

Shirley aka PeripheryGirl

Daniel @38:50. Exactly. I think that Matt and then Matt with Daniel have been an invaluable and good-willed (while being brutally honest/funny) resource for anyone looking for the Zionist exit door and have lead many to it and through it. Thanks for all the hard work, guys!

linden.lime

I hadn’t heard of Natalie until a video from an absolutely brilliant young Black woman (arguablysomaya on most platforms) talking about this response and the flak she’d taken for speaking out on its BS. Not a great first impression for ol contrapoints and related fan base.

Harry P. Ness

has Matt seen Adventure Time or did he invent Lumpy Space Princess from first principles including being Jewish at 1:06:45

KK

Progressive Except Palestine: it's a thing made possible only by internalized Whiteness

Sailor Jerry

Ok we are so back, but i will forever be suspicious about Daniel’s glazing of Shaiel.

EdLam

great slop gang, this slop was thicker and warmer than usual. It was running out of the side of my mouth in bliss because I really don’t like contapoints. Finger licking good slop. 🐽

Quincy Markowitz

Saagar is the exact opposite of Matt. A dummy that pretends to be smart. He’s hateful, ugly, and gets his ass handed to him by Krystal almost weekly. I have to imagine Daniel hasn’t had the displeasure of hearing his anti-trans or anti-immigrant rants when he formed his lips to call this a smart person.

MisterAndoff

Somaya is one of the most insightful political creators I've found in years

sentient

Yes, it’s horrible ambiguous or empty virtue basking, or people talk about Palestine and no other connected brutality, falling apart if blueprint colonial settler entities are named, as if other colonial struggles and the cannibalistic deathflation on citizens of the west is somehow disconnected, as budgets for weapons climb and somehow every government is too helpless to block the violence and allow people their natural, and now supplied, food, water, sanitation, shelter … the bare minimum to eek out living, not even close to honoring dignity of culture and community. We have a moment to wake up, every soul who lives is an ounce more of our humanity that survives too, and it shouldn’t come down to that selfishness to compel people to stop dehumanizing others. I found a pretty good relatively short video (to the topic) about the interconnected struggles and how they led us to this moment in Palestine. https://youtu.be/H0tSYW-Qalw?si=-zieqMyBuyaRbtWx

sentient

the intro feels good. I’m glad you fell a$& backwards into slop farming too!

sentient

Awe rare to hear three dudes talking to each other! but for real … so many quality puns!!!! 💚 your sponsors

Kirt

She's a liberal who accidentally acquired a lot of far left fans who thought Tabby was awesome. Could have turned out even more awkward. At least she didn't acquire thousands of Fritz fans?

Notes from the Transition

The whole essay by Natalie Wynn sounds like she asked chatgpt to write a statement for her

sentient

So many convos with folks with this viewpoint. Fear of cancel culture comes across as verbal crocodile tears — they’re the victim of having to have an opinion. In the end when you ask them about the use of white phosphorous, starvation… I feel like at best they’ll admit they didn’t know about it. After so many credible references they still somehow don’t know…

sentient

I’m glad you moved the needle and supported his shift Daniel. It’s really hopeful (tears)!!!! I think it’s just a hard moment of thinking about who often gets left holding pain as the discovery is happening; and that’s a hard natural course of the cultural change, like in RJ and TJ. there are real fears of what people/govt runs that. If you were the US govt Daniel, life would feel less scary. I think it’s just hard when the g’cide is so intense and you see people so starved. It’s true we have to find the wherewithal to stay in the effort, maybe that’s the convo we can have as POC/GM to stay sustainable in these conversations, center the impact, not drop our dignity, and work thru real concerns about tripping into lib “get along” that drops the movement until it fizzles into no functioning left. I get that’s not what you’re doing, I think it’s just a real lefty fear. I own post-arrheia, as part of my ND ADD communication.

Miles James

Propagandi is one of the best bands of my skateboard childhood. I still listen to how to clean everything, it’s how I leaned about Gaza.palestine. Then Howard zinn and boom done

Emme

What absolute crybaby loser shit from Contra 😤 100% agree w/ that person’s choice for 3 adult men I’d feel [relatively] safe trapped in an elevator with. Also agree that I’d be annoyed VERY quickly- by Daniel’s interrupting, as it is both a sensory processing challenge to untangle that much auditory info (let alone process speech, forget when people are talking over each other) AND- triggers trauma around white male voices being the loudest and most listened to. That being said, am proud of Daniel for working on mitigating the cooperative overlap 😉 Aww Producer Adam, you are adorable. All 3 of you are. Most moral parasocial brothers from other mothers!

Keilani

I can’t handle Emily on that show either. She says the most ignorant stuff about the Palestinian resistance when it’s clear she has only a main stream media understanding of the issue, she shouldn’t speak as an authority.

Keilani

Im wondering what Matt Bernstein thinks about Contrapoint’s post about the genocide. I think Matt is firmly in the Bad Hasbara camp when it comes to the issue so he must be kinda ashamed of her…

sentient

I am glad people are changing, but yes agreed, re-listening to Fanon

Chachi uday

That propagandi album was all me and my friends listened to summer of 1994.

sentient

Speaking of gaslighting media. Yay piggies, more lefty pods! A recent interview says highlight NYT on the BDS!!!! because they learned nothing from the tragic unnecessary killing of beloved Emmet Till, may he Rest in Power and Parity! No more g'cide propaganda!

sentient

I’m listening to a convo about J Sakai’s Settlers, and the critique of what has kept anti-assimilationist POC and Euro Descended abolitionists with deep Pan African movement understanding separating from white (vs a decolonized Euro descended) and internalized white constituents on the American “left.” I feel like some aspect of that well worn schism is what got bumped into. Strategic unity with divestment from hegemony efforts as it moves towards connection with the global maj liberatory movement/s

Kate Alexandra

You were in Edmonton!!! Amazing, happy to have you in this northerly city 😍

Koby Leff

An additional heartbreaking element of this, as a (former) long time ContraPoints fan is that her content is often about deradicalization and how we can tell men that they're wrong and hallucinating while still inclusively pulling them to her side... But I guess in her eyes Zionists are a more lost cause than other fascists... And therefore they deserve *more* respect?? Deeply stupid and frustrating.

Koby Leff

While I have you go hit up Robert Evans and do a joint Behind the Bastards on Meir Kahane. This pig needs that slop

Johnny H.

Mission of Burma mentioned! They are the treasure of us enlightened Bostonians (me being a former one, now NYC). We like to refer to them as “what if The Clash and Gang of Four were from Boston, had a total disregard for sensible song structure or if their guitars were even in tune. The kinda band that was angry enough to go the protest but had to leave early to make it to the library before close. Top 5 easy.

Catullus Creations

Yeah, once you start with "There's a genocide, but I stayed silent because," then you need to show some level of at least REGRET. Like, you were balancing something. Even the most petty reason. Like... "Well, there's a genocide, but my cleaning lady is from Israel and if I spoke out I would have to hire a new one and that's such a bother..." "I wanted to speak out but then my neighbor might glare at me..." Anything, because there you are at least implying that the cause was a just one and that speaking out was the right thing to do. You didn't because you wanted to avoid something, even something minor. But doing it like this is saying that you avoided speaking out because... When you get down to it speaking out would have been bad. And in that case, just shut up! Like... To give the ultimate steel manning of the idea... If you think there's a genocide, then you should do whatever you can to bring it to an end. If, for some reason, you think that literally everyone talking about it is going to prolong it or make it worse, then the thing you can do to end it is NOT MAKE THIS POST. If talking about it is bad, then don't talk about it! If the anti-genocide movement is bad, don't bring it any more attention. When you make it "The whole movement is bad but you wanted me to say something so..." Then you're ultimately saying that you not getting angry messages from your fans is more important to you than stopping the genocide. And maybe it is. But if it was, say that. And if you don't want to say that, either shut up, or change your mind.

Catullus Creations

Around 1:12:15 - Also, some of those kids in Gaza are also trans! And getting their entire torso burnt to a crisp by white phosphorus is probably not the sort of mastectomy they wanted!

Joel Instone

Listened for a second time driving home today. Its one of the best you've ever done (who needs stupid guests eh?) But big credit goes to Natalie for serving up one of the worst statements, on any topic, in any context, ever.

Carrie Boosh

Can someone tell me if I went too far with this comment I made to someone who was saying ‘before Israel faces up to their atrocities, Palestine must admit they messed up’ - I was so mad I wrote “Not all Jews are Zionist, not all Zionists are Jews but all Zionists are racist” Now I feel bad. I was so angry though. I don’t have any one else to ask if I’m terrible for saying that, I’m sorry.