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207: Where’s the Broigus? with Barnaby Raine (Patreon)

Published:
2026-05-23 00:32:14
Imported:
2026-05

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Content

Matt and Daniel are joined by historian and one of the Editors of the journal Salvage, Barnaby Raine. They discuss the Der Sturmer-izing of Zack Polanski, the lobby both taking and disclaiming credit for Thomas Massie’s Kentucky loss, and Itamar Ben-Gvir doing some truly repulsive “if these guys weren’t here holding me back” grandstanding.

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Comments

Martina Madden

Happy Friday and free Palestine! 🇵🇸🇱🇧🇮🇷🕊️

Squiggle

thanks fellas. bad hasbara is a balm to my weary heart.

Junoby

Bring the Broigus!

AspViper

That joke was in Short Circuit. The 1986 movie about a robot. I'm just here to point that out. Why was it in there? And why did the robot laugh at it? I don't know. Though maybe they foreshadowed AI better than anyone thought. Anyway, great episode, cheers to all

Eva Phillips

Wild that The Other famous Trevor Phillips (where my GTA V Free Palestine people at?) is the standard setter for anti-Zionism in the Trevor Phillips community

Jonathan Kadmon

Best Jewish joke: How do you get away from a Jewish cop? Take the toll road!

Lars

Always awkward seeing Matt and Dan dance around the fundamental contradictions around jewish identity. Its clear that Dan has a different and more radical critique than Matt does. I wonder if they talk about it behind the scenes.

Nico

I dream of Raine, el-É-hee-el-ÉÉÉ!

linden.lime

Pigmeat Markham’s Here Comes the Judge was proto-rap in the late ‘60s

T

Cracking episode innit chaps

T

Oy.....

Nicholas Storch

This Brit definitely wants to police the discourse! Whatever

Nicholas Storch

I really left behind any fucks for this guy's point of view a while ago.

Nicholas Storch

We have to be careful as "the Genocide gets stale", the default stance for the Jewish left is going to be "is this bad for the Jews"? I don't think Matt or Dan are so unsophisticated, maybe it's not surprising that the theory steeped Barnaby Raine is pushing a line of thought that is so utterly counter-productive for thinking about a genocide carried out by a Jewish supremacist state.

TiggyThisby

Anyone know a way to grab transcripts? Some of Barnaby Raine's comments re: anti-antisemitism that still hates semites were such concise encapsulations of what's going on, I kinda want quotes I can share (with attrobution of course!)

Nicholas Storch

"Zionism is too Goyish" is a direct quotation from the transcript, that's something to start with.

Nicholas Storch

Also "The tragedy of Zionism" is that the far right in Europe/America will turn on Israel anyway. Well, that's an analysis, but I would it put it to you that it's an analysis that foregrounds Jews. I have no time for it and I don't think that the anti-Zionist left will find it useful.

Bad Hasbara

No we mostly talk about how much we love parasocial comments.

Lars

Excellent! I will keep em coming!

Lars

Please elaborate! I have my own problems with the guest, but I would love to know yours.

Lars

Ah, I see this somewhat answers my other question. Yes, I definitely had similar issues with those statements of his.

Nicholas Storch

Raine works in NYC but his background is obviously British. I would tentatively say that the US Jew tends to be a bit less sheltered than the British. I would hope that the US Jewish left does not take up his anxieties! His concern to always foreground Jewish safety is understandable but it's not a sufficient answer to the Gaza genocide. More to the point, the framework that Raine uses to problematize Zionism vis-a-vis a "genuine" Jew who is a "rootless cosmopolitan" with an "unsurpassed ethical grounding" seems like ideological construction rather than something meaningful to work with. Personally I think, after Gaza, Judaism has joined Christianity in being a system of dead symbols. Sure, revive it! The work of many lifetimes and not something to be assumed.

Lars

Great point! This is what Badempanada talks about all the time. Usually, BH are better than this than most, but they still fall into it sometimes. And that is framing Anti-Zionism as justified because it's not "true Judaism" and that the worst thing about it is the way it makes Jews look bad or puts them in danger. And while that wasn't always explicitly exclusively what Raine was saying, it often amounted to pretty much that. Imagine criticising Nazism based on the fact that it was bad for Germans, or that it was an evil version of Nationalism or White supremacy which was discrediting the good kind! Insane! No one would think to do that. Any framing of the problem of Zionism as a tragedy which is negatively affecting Jews is suspect frankly. It was not considered normal to frame apartheid South Africa as bad because it was bad for white people. Zionism must be stopped, and if bad things end up happening to Jews in the process of that, that too should be opposed. But as its own separate issue, not as the primary goal of Anti-Zionism itself. What does all this talk about how Zionism is actually negatively affecting Jews imply? It implies that if it wasn't negatively affecting them, if Zionism legitimately WAS good for the Jews, then it WOULD be ok. And that is insane. National Socialism was good for Germans, but no one cares, because the way it affected others, negatively was far more relevant.

TiggyThisby

So... no suggestions about the transcript thing?

Nicholas Storch

To be crass, Raine wants to engender an extra Jewish concern about the right wing (a la Britain or Canada) when that concern is already present in the US. Instead he should try to think about (not just him, all of us!) how to make Palestine Action and its effective saboteur practices more of a reality in the US and in Canada! And yes that would put the right wing on the back foot too, by the way! But that can't be the goal in and of itself!

Lars

I have been very disappointed with the way Norman Finkelstein has been pushing this angle as well. Mind you, he has always fundamentally been a liberal zionist, so it's not surprising exactly, but still disappointing. And you are 100% right. It's dumb to try and make Anti-Zionism justified purely on the basis that its anti right wing. Yes, that is currently the way its framed, but that wasn't always the case. The Zionists who actually founded the current monstrous state and committed the Nakba with all its horrors were left wing socialists who loved the USSR. (Which endorsed and gave the green light to Israels creation, something Norman Finkelstein praises them for lmao) This might be one of the single biggest problems with Anti-Zionist critique. It constantly tries to blame something else for Zionism, as if the real problem with Zionism is that its secretly this OTHER bad thing. Like with how Raine keeps framing it as if the problem with Zionism is that its Western. That is as stupid as Tucker or Elijah Schafer saying the problem with Zionism is that it's an inhumane, "eastern" thing, as opposed to an enlightened "western" thing. (Which is exactly the framing of the Ashkenazi liberal zionists who attack Ben Gvir at the end of the episode.) The problem with Zionism is not that it's a semitic, oriental, cruel regime that is alien to the enlightened west. And the problem isn't that it's a western, settler colonial capitalist outpost of the white race. The problem is that its ZIONIST. That in itself is more than bad enough to critique on its own, without de facto DEFENDING Zionism, but claiming the problem isn't really Zionism, but some other secret thing it really is.

TiggyThisby

Can you guys go chat under someone else's comment, I just wanted to know about transcripts.

Nicholas Storch

Good conversations are valuable, thanks for providing the space!

Hugh Jazz

How did you miss the entire catalog of New York hardcore band Judge

Lindz

Am I wrong or haven't Ben Gvir and others treated Flotilla activists like this all along, and this is the first time anyone is really feigning outrage?

Tina May

Cracking eggs is barbaric Arab/Kurdish behavior whereas eating omelettes is civilized Jewish behavior.

Joel Instone

Please ask your social media clipper to clip Barnabys explanation at like 35 mins in of the post-war/Holocaust flip in the Western imperialist instrumentalisation of Jewish identity from "antisemitism" to "philosemitism" - its so perfectly explained and such a vital thing for people to have clarity around!

Riaz Abdulla

The Zionist trying to force the narrative of “First and foremost you are Jews” on non-religious Jews (meaning you should be Zionist) means they will absolutely try to force the narrative of “First and foremost you are Muslim” on someone like me. The fact that I drank myself into 12 step recovery and slurp up bacon like it’s the Virgin Mary’s tears means absolutely nothing to these fascist ghouls

Scott Grabel

Contradiction? I barely knew him!

Mirco

Can anyone post the link to this music video that they mentioned near the end?

Rachel eborall

I loved that you had Barnaby on I think he is one of most clear sighted thinkers on the entity that is Israel and the weaponization of anti- semitism