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Daniel (re)meets Jesse Brown (Patreon)

Published:
2026-06-29 16:13:43
Imported:
2026-06

Content

Hey piggly-wigglies, the conversation/debate/interview between Daniel and Canadaland's Jesse Brown is up on Daniel's YouTube channel. It might delight you, it might surprise you, and it might just drive you insane! Check it out.

Files

Sitting Down with Jesse Brown

Daniel Maté of @Badhasbara) and Jesse Brown of @canadaland sit down to talk about whether anti-Zionism is a "hate movement", whether Jesse is a Zionist, and how to relate to Jewish-Canadian anxieties. Jesse's "fact check" of @SamiraMohyeddin: http://bit.ly/4wjFehu @TheKatieHalperShow interview with Samira: https://youtu.be/wepyx1Ju_2w?si=i1bnLpQ2YTodh0SJ "A Very Jesse Brown Christmas" @Badhasbara x @AtRachelGilmore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7MbBF-aP1A @MattLiebJokes monologue on how "Jesse Brown is not afraid": https://youtu.be/PzK1nEpRURM?si=O0Z2nw3cvHX7cAAK&t=472 Bad Hasbara's parody song "Jesse's World": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXszup-BUp0&list=RDPXszup-BUp0&start_radio=1 CHAPTERS: 0:00 Introduction 9:58 Setting the table for the conversation 14:29 "I'm doing what I've always done": Jesse on his post-Oct. 7 reporting 17:17 Who's doing the conflating here? 25:27 Is Jesse doing "hasbara"? 28:36 Does Jesse have any say on whether he's a Zionist? 35:45 The Abolitionist analogy 41:32 "You're much more concerned about Zionism than I am" 46:16 Two meanings of the word "hate" 53:00 "I care about anti-Zionism because it threatens ME" 57:18 "You've gone on a bad path, man"

Comments

Shugoshin {Conchobar}

It was maddening and I applaud Daniel for having the strength of will to not turn it into a shouting match which I’m sure Jesse wanted

Ian Weniger

Took a while but you finally exposed Jesse's Holocaust-Waschung of Israel.

Betti Tristan

“they’re all human beings DAN” okay, 1 life is equal to 1 life, and still, tens of thousands more are murdered on one side.

Jason

"if it quacks like a Zionist" would have been much simpler way to put that.

Verbose Minimalist

Thank you for doing this, Daniel. It is really illuminating to see the direct contrast between anti-Zionism and the liberal argument against it (not to say Zionism, as Jesse doesn't identify that way). And that double-negative is actually what's most interesting to me because it shows the reactionary centrist nature of Jesse's position. That said, respectfully, I do think you took his bait a bit towards the end (~54:15 in the video) in the way you expressed your (sincere and well-earned) resentment at Jewish Zionists and the disgust you have with their ideology and actions and its negative effects on the broader Jewish community. I think had I, as a non-Jewish person, said what you said in those words, it wouldn't sound good. Obviously, that difference matters, but people who are more interested in debate than material reality (i.e., reactionary centrists) don't see it that way. And it was clear that it was only Jesse's training as a professional debate bro that kept him from screaming, "Kapo!" at you in that moment. I hope you take this in the constructive spirit in which I intend it, from a Dan (not Daniel) to a Daniel (not Dan).

Riverside Park Garden Flowers

I’ve been finding the neo hasbara talking point that anyone who disagrees with them is “recycling neonazi talking points”… it’s painful to see that repeated to the descendant of an actual Shoah survivor

Jonah Ullman

oh my god. a very frustrating watch, though a valuable one. it's kind of wild how deep the conflation of judaism and zionism runs, it's not just a rhetorical strategy. jesse's thesis is ultimately that anti-zionism exists in the same category as anti-semite and not as anti-fascist. it has to be an identity not an ideology for him, hence why he can't understand daniel not taking anti-zionism personally without asserting daniel's distance from judaism or "skin in the game."

Paul McEvoy

"can I choose whether I'm a Nazi or not just because I have this gigantic swastika flag in my house and totally love Hitler"?

Ian Weniger

Norm F was right to stop talking about Zionism and focus on Israel.

Jonathan Kadmon

You're on a bad path, Daniel! Sounds like he wants to do an intervention for your LP hoarding 😂😂😂😂 I don't know how he thinks this makes him look good 🤷

Verbose Minimalist

Glad to hear it. And TBF I don't think I (or many others) would've held up nearly that long under the weight of his condescension without wanting to throw stuff at him. So all in all, 9.5/10!

Caroline

Well I don't think I could ever take Canadaland seriously again after hearing that. And too bad, because it used to be a good show. You can't listen to his drivel and consider it a trustworthy news source, though

phee

How unpleasant for you, but your intelligence and eloquence held firm. Given this gentleman’s hasbaric value to the Zio movement, I would not be surprised if the death threats against him come from ‘inside the house’ to keep him speaking so emphatically from a place of seemingly rational fear

Aubrey Stout

Whew what an exhausting human being. He's so obsessed with being the two-sides all lives matter calm rational good boy while refusing to grapple with the scale of genocide and death *that zionism hath wrought.* And he absolutely has contempt for you he just is in denial about it. Cannot believe him pretending to be the moral police over hanging an effigy of Ben fucking Gvir

Aubrey Stout

Sorry more thoughts - his analogies about China and Muslims don't work. They only would work if those diaspora communities in all their cultural institutions were flying flags of their home countries while those countries enacted mass genocide and invited soldiers responsible for that genocide into their cultural centers to break bread with them. Also if the United States was pouring money and weapons to those countries to fuel their terrorism/genocide. For someone so concerned with Palestinian life he seemed really unable to engage with the scale of their death at the hands of Israel.

Sreekishen Nair

Excellent job Daniel ❤️ ✊🏾 ❤️ You kept laser focused on solid arguments, and I admire the way you dealt with Jesse's obstinate dishonesty and overbearing smugness. Dude's a Jenga tower of false equivalences.

Paul McEvoy

Jesse, don't bring a block of pastrami to a knife fight.

Squiggle

I came here for the jokes and puns. This pig needs jokes and puns. I got my greatest one for you of all time: "HERE OH ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS PUN!" I yeild the rest of my time.

Paul McEvoy

well, ultimately, he's a dope. It's hard, in a way, to refute someone who is, as Daniel said, whining about so many non-issues. It is odd, because I don't think I'm likely to have an award winning podcast, and yet, it is easy to hear in real time this guy make massive thought errors. If in 5 years we find out he has a medium sized brain tumor, I would not be shocked. For the record, how many Canadian or American Jews have died from Anti Israeli or even Anti Jewish attacks since October 7th? I'm not justifying the killing of any human, but he is repeatedly saying that the threat is of Jews being killed, potentially in large numbers, but is this a thing that is actually happening?

Magda Len

No it's not. Bondi Beach the Jews were killed for being at an IDF event not because they were Jews. And even so a Muslim Syrian man risked his life to stop the attack... As for the threats many of the threats have been shown to be Zionist or Jews doing the threats. Look up Catlin Johnstone I think she was the one that compiled a list of "threats to Jewish institutions" that were either made up or from Zionist Jews. The list is insanely long.

Tina May

That was very cathartic/healing tbh. Not too tidy or clinical but Daniel did really well.

Scott Grabel

That Sharia Law fear mongering is so tired. Like, is that really what he is hinging the inability of Jews and Christians/Muslims to coexist on?

Gerome Rothman

Dan, I thought you did a great job. I wasn't expecting much for the same reason that you don't do this on Bad Hasbara. A dialogue with these people is pointless to try to reason with them. But the confrontation does have value for other reasons. お疲れ様です。 I spent a good part of 2024 arguing with a "friend" on Facebook. At a certain point I told the guy that this isn't a debate or a discussion. It's a confrontation. It's performative. I'm not trying to convince people like Jesse Brown anymore. I'm merely confronting them so that others may see and be convinced or called to action. I think you did the job.

Mirco

So basically what Brown says is that Apartheid Israel should continue because he doesn't like the (alleged) political position of the Palestinians. Did he also think that about Blacks in South Africa? They were chanting "Death to the Boers" in the street and they were mostly communists. Did he agree with that? I wonder.

Paul McEvoy

The bad path part was both funny and jarring. Like after 3 years of this shit, this is what you think?

Ellen McCabe

The calm rationalising is the most disturbing part

Jen Summers

This is your brain on Zionism 🥴🥴🥴

Salty Commie

yeah... I'm going to pass on this one. there is literally nothing this person could say that interests me. bless you Daniel for having the patience to engage, but this is definitely not for me. Peace

Tim van Rossum

Pffft. Ok. I went I to this already knowing who I was going to agree with, but frankly at times I was like let the dude speak a little more. I checked when I was at the 25 min mark (admittedly including the intro) and Jesse got to speak once for maaaaybe 3 minutes. I'm now at the 35 min mark though and when he starts talking about how he KNOWS (arrogantly) a 1 state solution isn't possible "without mass murder and ethnic cleansing", apparently ignoring the fact that MASS MURDER AND ETHNIC CLEANSING IS ALREADY HAPPENING MOTHERFUCKER. Boy that depleted my patience quickly. Ok. Imma try to make it through the last 25. Edit: almost there. This man should take the comments he reads on the internet more seriously: he *is* a vile idiot. Extra still fuming edit: I've been listening to a lot of I Hate Bill Maher recently and Jesse here actually reminds me of Maher. It's the same kind of undeserved absolute certainty, while being actually incoherent and replacing argument by simply stating some variant of 'I'm right'. And of course the clearly being more concerned with people saying mean things to him on he internet than the deaths of thousands of Palestinians. Where narcissism and genocidal racism meet.

Alex

I'd like to think that I'm not an emotional masochist but I managed to watch all of this...

Alex

Yeah the PRC isn't great but Jesse bringing it up is pure strawman.

Alex

Daniel, we definitely have our differences in certain areas but I have to say, you are a lot more patient than I am with somebody like this...I meant that as a compliment.

Alex

A chalif, even.

Alex

They were attending a Chabad event. Chabad are incredibly Zionist and complicated in their own right, I have no love for them or their bullshit fwiw. There were people present who have some more direct ties to the IOF and the state, and there were others present because Chabad events are unfortunately some of the only public ones for yom tov and they may well have either not considered the organisational history and context or they had and didn't care. Either way, the shooting was carried out by two men who upheld Daesh/ISIS ideology and had *nothing* to do with Palestine. The Syrian guy who intervened deserves praise for that, while also none for his other political garbage fire positions...people be complicated. It is also worth noting how such an increase in material and legislative support that NSW Police have been granted, did nothing to stop the shooting as quickly as they'd like to have done...not to mention that both men had been on the radar of ASIO and somehow managed to pass the various and rigorous background checks, required to obtain their legally owned firearms. I have heard of and seen people lose their firearm license and firearms for lesser matters in Australia.

Alex

🍳

Paul McEvoy

Yeah I mean I don't want to dismiss this incident as being irrelevant, but if you are complaining about an epidemic of anti Jewish violence in Canada, you can't be referencing Australia. It would be like there's anti black racism in Sweden because of American Racism. Or something. Doesn't really check out. Canadian anti Jewish violence would have to happen in Canada. None of that diminishes that Bondi Beach was a horror.

Wendi Byther

He even LOOKED condescending, and I tried toto hear him out but he said a whole lot of nothing

Wendi Byther

He didn’t deal with it at all, he didn’t even really let Daniel get there, despite his couple of attempts. This is why “debating” these assholes is ultimately useless, though I do also sometimes try, so I understand the occasional desire to just see if maaaaybe… 😑😑😑

Wendi Byther

He’s in denial about A LOT it seems

Wendi Byther

I really liked the argument Daniel brought up about identity, I think too many people in general hitch their wagon to political viewpoints as though it’s their whole ass personality, rather than a material evaluation of what is ethical/right/compassionate, etc (I mean.. see MAGA, for instance, but it doesn’t begin and end there)

Wendi Byther

They went into that briefly in the debate, but Jesse derailed, bc of course he did

Wendi Byther

Glad you got there I understand your original feeling that Daniel was doing a lot of the talking, but Jesse fuckin sucks and didn’t have anything good to say anyway lol

Tanwir Ahmed

Whiny baby indeed 👌 He just let himself cook.

Paul McEvoy

I have one very long term and well loved liberal zionist friend. TBH at this point I don't know what he is. We had some very mild discussions early on and I realized he was pretty softbrained about it and I didn't really want to know what he thought. This is a guy who founded 2 multimillion dollar educational non-profits and is generally brilliant and thoughtful. But it's become super hard to talk to him at this point. The last time we talked about politics he was suggesting that Cuomo was going to be better than Mamdani because Cuomo could "get things done". I don't know. Part of it is me not wanting to confront him to see what he actually believes but I have spoken to him very little in the last couple of years even though I think about him often. Very fucking sad tbh.

Ibrahim Khatib

How future archaeologists will teach about The Anti Wars of the 3rd millennium AD: "Hmm Zionism is brutal and horrific. I am Anti-Zionism!" "Oh yeah?? Well.. I am ANTI YOU!!" "You're Zionist?" "No!!! What??? Where'd you get that from? I'm simply ANTI-anti-Zionism!!" "Oh? Ok... then I'm anti-Zionism, AND, Anti anti anti Zionism too..." "Down With Anti anti anti Zionism!! I hereby identify as an Anti-anti-anti-anti-Zionist!!" "Well I.....

Lada M M

Well done Daniel!

Kenji Kuramitsu

Wish he finished his sentence at the end it sounded like he was abt to blame black folks for anti black racism but then he trailed off! (After blaming Islamic radicalism for Islamophobia)

Leena

I want to say something about being sorry you have to put up with the indignity of being treated like this but you jumped in of your own accord so it feels odd and even a bit paternalistic or head-patty to say it, but uhhh… I wish he had more dignity during the process I guess. I wish he was more dignified so that you could be furnished with that respect.

linden.lime

Do you think this would be a good video to suggest to a liberal? I haven’t listened and would prefer not to, but I will check it out IF people think it accurately reflects “good-faith” Z arguments, and offers effectual counters to the concerns that are raised.

Emma Robson

It's so telling that that is someone putting their best argument forward in support of zionism. Almost unwatchably frustrating and absurd. Like having a flashback to all those conversations with zionists in the early weeks and months of this genocide. Before so many of us learned the hardest possible way to redirect our energy elsewhere.

hileahrious

Daniel, I really think you did the best you could against this brick wall. His whole argument is based on the premise that Zionism is inherently good and just. That in itself is demonstrably false and yes, I’m sorry, if you set out to ethnically cleanse a people and take glee in murdering Palestinian children, it IS your fault if I hate you for it 🤷‍♀️. Lol even if he isn’t a Zionist as he claims, fine, well you should at least know exactly how to define Zionism (he says he doesn’t know much about it??? lol that’s just irresponsible)… once he’s forced to look at the founding of the ideology and the real reasons for israel’s existence in its modern form, he wouldn’t be able to argue anything at all.

Blue Bear Vending Co.

Every time he calls you Dan, call him Jess (or Jessica). People who do that despite being told what your name is do it absolutely on purpose