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Supernatural - 14x13 “Lebanon” Full Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2023-06-11 17:00:10
Imported:
2026-06
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Lebanon - Full Version.mp4

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Alicia

i love that you didnt have JDMs appearance spoiled. it was announced before hand that he was returning for those of who were watching in realtime. I wish i had gotten to just scream at the tv when he appeared

Rae

absolutely love this episode - and absolutely agree john got off so so easy. my take on john: what dean's deepest wish wasn't to just have his family together but to have a loving, caring family with a dad who loved him and was PROUD of him. i think the john who showed up was pearljohn, not just john. second: as a very deancoded person with an abusive family/parents, i would've probably reacted a lot like dean and sam did in this situation. i agree that if john had been around longer there would've been more about the nitty gritty of it all. basically me wanting them to go harder was my feelings as a fan and knowing john deserved it, not me as a human who understands why they made those decisions for the characters and the story and how it's more realistic. even tho i am a JW hater i absolutely loved sam getting some catharsis, dean saying "i have a family" and "i'm good with who i am". genuinely !!! such great moments in this episode.

Alicia

one thing I love is Sam getting some closure. If you think back to when John died, John and Dean had a whole conversation where John told him how proud he was etc(this also messed up dean because he also told him he may have to kill his little brother so its all very complicated) but Sam got literally nothing. John asked him to get him a cup of coffee so he could talk to Dean alone, and then he came back and John was dead.

Rae

agreed! that was so good for sam.

Purple Nurple

For me I think having Mary and knowing yellow eyes was dead was definitely why John was a lot softer than we think of him. His revenge mission was complete and he got to see his wife again. As well as hearing about all the things Sam and Dean have done... Having Dean's wish of having his family back together makes perfect sense. It also helped to bring some closure for his and Sam with John. Dean saying that he was good with who he was, made me happy. Dean's had it rough the past few years, and to hear him say that means a lot. We have a 300th episode fan content coming up with the stories behind how they got JDM back. This is the first time we see the older John and Mary on screen together since the pilot! When JDM went to a con and he heard all the hate people had for John he was a bit surprised as a lot of the things he had no idea about as he wasn't involved in the show, it was stuff added throughout the years.

AdoptDontShopPets

I love the idea of “pearlJohn” because this John does not seem at all like we would have expected 2003 John. They couldn’t even bother to powder his beard so it was less gray, like it would have been in 2003. I guess they are saying that learning Yellow Eyes was dead and getting Mary back, would make him sweet as pie and listen to his kids.

Purple Nurple

The bit where Dean didn't know John wasn't John in season 1 because he was too nice... Sam and Dean have been accused of that in the past (by Kevin - 'my demons were too nice') lol. I wonder if they got that from John lol. For me I'm not a John hater, but I'm not a John lover either. I just think he was just thrust into bad circumstances and made some mistakes. There's a lot of head canons in the fandom that some people are canon that put John in a very bad light and I'm like 'uh that's not real'. Also a lot of the stuff people bring up and I'm like 'yeah that's a typical dad in the 80s/90s, it may not be acceptable now, but back then it was'. So I feel I've been defensive of him despite me not loving John lol.

Lauran Mitchell

I think the John we saw here was closer to Dean's idealized version of John. The John that could have been if not for...everything. I think Dean's heart's desire was having this version of his family together. IRL though...JDM has not been quiet about the fact that he is not happy John was portrayed so harshly after he left the show & there were rumors he was not willing to play into that. Idk. I feel like John has always had both sides in him. He could be a neglectful, abusive asshole but he probably did have some loving moments...we just didn't really get to see that lol. Even in season one, he was shown to be a great big bag of dicks, so it's not something later writers pulled out of thin air.

AdoptDontShopPets

I don’t much care for this episode. Knowing John was coming back, I had hoped for more catharsis with Dean and John. We got a big Mary/Dean catharsis in 12x22 but no Dean/John catharsis here. All those negative John feelings Dean expressed to his dream-self in 3x10 remain pushed down or otherwise have faded in the past 11 years. I can understand it as Dean just wanting one quiet, happy night with his family. It’s OK, just not what I wanted. Kind of like S14 and 15 in general.

BexFangirl

From the three big milestone ones (100, 200, 300) this one is definitely my least favourite. It was a good episode, I enjoyed the concept they had for this episode and seeing JDM as John again was definitely something milestone worthy. So yeah pretty much agree with what you said.

BexFangirl

Dean's "I have a family" is for sure my favourite bit. I love it, because yes the two brothers, plus Cas and Jack and also Mary, they are a family

Hasnaa

I absolutely hate this episode and it almost made me quit the show, of course dabb (john's #1 apologist) would pull off this crap, this doesn't feel like our john at all, if that was an altered version of john, a more loving one, if that's what dean desires that would've made more sense but you're telling me this is our 2003 john Winchester?!! Nah absolutely no way, dean literally knew john was possessed in season 1 because he told him he's proud of him coz he never say that, here he's throwing i love yous and i am proud of yous left and right? Making Sam out of all people say to John "you did your best" feels like a hate crime, the whiplash from last episode where dean talked about how john would send him away whenever he "pissed him off" and tell Sam that dean ran away to this? Wow just highlights how the writers don't communicate at all, istg every writer is writing their own thing, i wish this episode was just the town people and watching the winchesters from outsiders point of you, that would've been much more interesting, john telling dean "i wished you would get yourself a normal life, a family" what part of the way john raised dean made him think dean would have a "normal life" you literally raised him to be a soldier!!! Soldiers need war, and of course he doesn't think of an angel and a nephilim as a family, of course he's thinking of a wife and couple of kids as the only type of family dean can have, of course he doesn't approve, i loved dean telling him "i have a family", a family he chose, i love dean saying i am good with who i am, i only wish he confronted john, he literally told Mary he hates her for nothing other than dying and all he got for john is "nah, it's cool"?!!! He gets off the hook with nothing? That's sad, this episode is just so cheap, everything we got here feels so unearned, i don't even know how we got here, like you said catharsis has to be earned to hit you, this just felt like they just wanted to do something big for the 300 episode instead of a dynamic progression of a story if that makes sense? The 100th episode felt very big but also very organic and fit with where we were in the story while this one felt out of left field, i can't express how much it annoys me. The only good thing about it was getting to see cas's magistic wings in their full glory once again, not broken 🥺, seeing bamf Castiel is always a delight. I hate what dabb did to supernatural and hate his writing, he has little to no understanding of these characters at all, he writes them in a way that makes them almost a caricature of themselves instead of developing their characters organically and prioritizing growth, if it wasn't for castiel and the few awesome new writers who joined the show in his era, i would have stopped watching the second he became a show runner. Having to go through this episode again with you reminded me that i should probably go on IMDb and rate this episode as 1/10 just out of spite coz it makes me mad everytime. On a positive note the next episode is one of my favorite episodes of all times so looking forward to that 🥰

AdoptDontShopPets

Agree with it all, just technically Dean didn’t hate Mary for dying, it was for making a deal with Azazel and starting the whole journey. Although you are right in 12x22 he does also complain about her leaving him left alone to raise Sam and give support to John.

Helen Wood

I actually love the John stuff and especially that they were both mature enough to see that John did everything he did for them. I think I amJohn Wichester's greatest fan. You will see in the gag reel that this episode gave us something wonderful.

Abigail

Love this episode, and am one of the seemingly few non-John haters out there. I empathize with him since it seems like he's got a lot of PTSD and trauma which never were dealt with. Not an excuse for his behavior, but an explanation. I don't know that I'd be the best parent either if my whole world turned upside down one day and my spouse died in a horrific way. One thing you can say for certain: John prepared his sons for the world they had to live in, and neither of them would be alive if it weren't for him. Also always love to see JDM <3. Side note - the way we deal with coming to the end of watching SPN is by starting it all over again - rinse and repeat :).

Purple Nurple

I couldn't help but laugh at that moment... damn gag reel has ruined that scene for me haha. (there'll be a story about it in the post s14 video too - not the 300th ep special as it's a gag reel spoiler lol)

Jay

Rewatching this with Shelley makes me realise that what the pearl is doing is giving Dean a fairy-tale wish. That wish isn't to have John back, it really is to get Michael out of his head – the whole business of stealing John from 2003 and creating a time paradox that rewrites history is the consequence, it's the way the pearl accomplishes the feat of kicking out Michael. None of the rest of the events of the past 299 episodes of Supernatural ever happen – they never go to an alternate universe, AUMichael doesn't come to this world and take Dean as a vessel etc etc. But the price is in what Dean says to Sam when they're washing the dishes: he's good with who he is, and what does it make them if they duck out and leave saving the world to some other poor schmucks? And that's an echo of season 2 and the djinn episode, What Is and What Should Never Be, in which Dean finds out that the price of having Mary back is to lose his relationship with Sam and to know that all the people he saved are dead. The price of kicking out Michael would be to lose Sam, to lose Cas and to lose Mom. From John's point of view, as we're told at the end, it's a dream – or that's the way I took it, that it was like a fairy tale for him too, to see his sons grown old, thriving and heroic and forgiving of him, and to be able to see his wife again –  so no wonder he's at his best. I'm not going to get into the John debate, except that I think inconsistencies make for really interesting and rounded characters and relationships.

Brenda Lewis

I know this much is true, if my parents came back and I had a chance to say something, I'd let them off the hook too. It's been 20 years and I've been mad at them mostly the whole time, less so these days. Family dinner and no arguing, yeah. Because you can't change the past, but Sam is not letting it hold him in place either.

Foxie

The foreshadowing in this episode is absolutely insane

Sare

Rosanne Stewart

I can totally believe this is 2003 John Winchester... who has had a MASSIVE shock to his system. He sees his sons as full grown men who have saved the damn world and he has the love of his life back. He knows he died and his sons were changed by it and that they never had a chance to say the things they wish now they could have said. He discovers that his enemy is dead. He got his revenge. Of course he's not going to be the gruff, angry, militaristic John we knew from before. My opinion is probably colored by the fact that I always did take a kinder view of John than a lot of the fandom. It's very easy to look at John with young Sam & Dean and condemn him for being a drill sergeant more than a dad, for being so harsh and for not letting them be children. I would imagine if we saw it day by day, starting with John in shock and grief, with baby Sam in his arms and Dean barely past the toddler stage, learning about the supernatural world, terrified that Yellow Eyes might come back for his kids it would look very different. Decision after decision, trying to keep the boys safe and trying to prepare them to survive in the world that killed their mother. He screwed up big time. But he did love his sons and he did think he was doing what he needed to do for them. So yes, I was weeping during that goodbye scene (although I can't watch it without also thinking of the blooper) and it's very bittersweet seeing John back in the Impala, waking up from a good dream to answer his flip phone. And I will say that they also could have made SOME effort to make him look younger, if only to take the grey out of his beard.

Vel

I'm with you on this. 1000%. This episode was very cathartic for me since I know I will never get that chance.

Vel

BINGO. You are not alone in thinking this. I grew up a late 70's/80's latch-key eldest child with a traumatized war dad, who happened to be raised by WWII parents that were even much more traumatized and worse than I could have imagined. And none of that matters the second they are gone - that loss hurt more than anything I may have suffered as a child. As an adult, I can see and have more compassion for what my parents went through. We have to choose to be better...break the cycle. My parents were not given the tools necessary to do so, but I do have them. And I did. This episode reminds me of that.

Vel

Fully agree on this. Thank you for saying it. But I also love that the show is ambiguous enough to allow all kinds of head cannons even when I don't agree with or like them.

Rae

agreed that there are john-hater headcannons that aren't necessarily part of the show. i always say that i love john as a character bc his issues (good and bad) drive so much of the story. dislike him if he was a real human bc wtf ?! 😂

Rae

YES. i speak to my parents like once a year. i'll never forgive them so much. but i would 100% be like the boys in this episode. you love your parents, and you hate them, and you have to move on. if the arc had been 6-8 eps with JDM i would've expected more for sure.

Rae

even tho my headcannon is that john is pearljohn / deans idealized reunion wish - i still agree with most of what you said and 10/10 realize it's a headcannon. :) COMPLETELY agree it was in character to not bring up every issue, and i'm glad they didn't. it would've felt very contrived.

Vel

Shelley - the majority of the audience does not hate John. However, certain parts of the fandom do. They are not the majority, though. Just more vocal than most. Either way, the show leaves enough space open for interpretation, so who am I to judge...lol. When I watched SPN during it's run and was part of the fandom, I did not know any one who hated him. There may have been those who were not fans but not hate. Your commentary on Dean being sent away just reminded me of how many friends and family also went through something similar back in the 80's and 90's. Seems like everyone I knew spent a month or two in a treatment center or with a family member because they were "unruly". Myself included. Wild times.

Helen Wood

I think a lot of people project daddy issues onto John that have nothing to do with the actual character To me, this was entirely the John I know and love.

Helen Wood

Agree with all of that. Nice to find another friend of John.

Luis Nov

“I have a family” 😭🥹 Also the “is this John Winchester?” Sooo trueee

rose mnor

I loved this episode, and I cried buckets when it aired ... and always teared up whenever I rewatched it ... I am also in the 'John did everything he could at that time but the narratives were against him' camp, and that he chose his actions based on impossible situations on which they were simply not fair to be judged upon and made competitions on. Those choices that he made most times led to terrible consequences as narratives tended to be as the stories unfold themselves ... just like every other major player in the show had to deal with and had to endure too for the whole duration of this series ... And to those very good points raised by other commenters in this side of the equation here, I thank them for their logical and reasonable point of views. In short, (imo) we had to put those specific actions and reactions in the context of the series of which there is no established playbook that can be used as guidance for the protagonist at that point in time, and their plot narratives here are fantastical ... whereas out there in the real world, the real-life challenges are a lot more different and more grounded, j/s ... I only wished that we get to see the scene between John and Mary that was taken out, both of them had a moment to themselves ** in the original production draft script but were omitted when it was revised. And also more of Mary's pov of having a face-to-face with her husband who went off the rails onto a terrible path because of her and her choices. To me, we've had both Sam and Dean revisit their father issues already multiple times - been there done that - and what we had in the episode between the 3 of them was great ... but I get it, this is the 300th episode of the Sam & Dean show ... we had to have the focus on them (... grrr) ... ** of which John admitted that he knew Mary made a deal with a demon ... via link: Page 30/51 Production Draft (Blue Draft) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sg_ae1FWYKWxkU4jaHDAtNmlW9n-bwMB/view This episode in my opinion is not the best for S14, another much superior one is coming next ... written by writer extraordinaire Steve Yockey. To me, Yockey had been firing on full cylinder this season and had shown tremendous growth during his tenure as the staff writer for the show. His 3 episodes this season are *chef's kiss* and when we reviewed them back on a rewatch, whoa boy, the plot points weaved in his past episodes and in this season in hindsight, gave such tremendous weight for the last run arc of the series ... ... and I went back and forth on whether Nihilism or the next one is the best from him ... cannot wait to watch it with you, Shelley, I am really very sure that you will love it too ...

Christopher simeon

Long time no see guys. Just wanted to comment on John's behavior. John was always angry and driven to kill yellow eyes that is why he was a hunter and treated the boys so harshly. He and Sam are very similar. Dean is more like Mary because she tried to be normal but could not stop being the hunter she is. Which is why it is not surprising that his hate was directed at her because he has a lot of self hatred. Remember all the parallels with Sam losing Jessica and Sam turning more rage filled going after Lilith. Sam without that need for revenge in season 8 also quit hunting to have a normal life just like John seemed to want for them. And remember that Sam and dean sort of came to understand John and even sort of talked to him in 5x13 when they went back in time. Or when they first met Adam. They had plenty of time to process their feelings and forgive their dad. John without that drive to get revenge doesn't need to be angry or rage filled. At the end of his life in 2x1 he acted just like he did in this episode. He didn't want to fight and he said things like he was proud of dean because the weight of that revenge was gone just like in this episode. John without the weight on his shoulders was always played consistently throughout the series. Just a man trying to protect people he loves and that is his last act this episode.

rose mnor

@Hasnaa, If it is alright, I would like to offer a different perspective to that "I am proud of you" line that triggered Dean into realizing that John was YED moment in S1E23 Devil's Trap ... In my opinion, tptb knew how out of context that specific line: "I am proud of you" by John in that episode - had been perceived by fandom, and now as I am typing this I'm thinking that both Dabb and Glynn were kinda poking fun at us by using it several times in this episode, lol ... just like you said they used it left and right ... there's no need to overuse it, in several scenes to boot ... Right, moving on ... for an easier grasp of the context of that line here, I copy/paste that particular moment/scene below: Dean: You’re not mad? John: For what? Dean: Using a bullet. John: Mad? I’m proud of you. You know, Sam and I, we can get pretty obsessed. But you – you watch out for this family. You always have. ... then, a few seconds later ... John: Give me the gun. What are you doing, Dean? Dean: He’d be furious. John: What? Dean: That I wasted a bullet. He wouldn’t be proud of me, he’d tear me a new one. /end So as I was saying, imo, to me the moment Dean realized that John was YED was when he correlate 'wasting a very precious bullet' with "I am proud of you" i.e. putting a positive spin about using that bullet. Therefore it doesn't matter what any other positive line/spin that YED!John said, that we can correlate with using the bullet, it would trigger Dean - is what I am saying here ... not particularly the 'John was proud of Dean' line ... An example: If YED!John said "That's alright son, you had to use it..." would still trigger Dean ... or just insert any other lines that could make Dean feel NOT BAD about wasting that Colt's bullet ... because Dean knew John would prioritize not using the bullet above all else ... and would get angry with him no matter what ... that if we replace that line with anything else positive, that scene will still hold true ... and that's the point ... So that's my 0.02 cents that you didn't ask for ... ETA: I also know that S2.01 there's an "I am proud of you" moment where again, Dean asked John 'is this you talking?' and that's also why I am thinking that tptb knew how fandom would then perceive that line ...

Amye Sabin

I'm also in agreement with @rose mnr. I don't believe John was abusive in the sense that he was an alcoholic or beat the boys, like many fans believe. I do believe he was neglectful and the show has presented that many times throughout the series. I also read a really good fanfic where the writer presented the theory that John & Mary are soul mates, and one without the other would throw the survivor out of balance emotionally. Who knows how any of us would respond if we were in John's shoes. Even though I know this episode is supposed to be a celebration of family, what I find incredibly sad is that this is the only time in their entire lives that all four sat down to have a meal together. Oh and nerd, health & career driven Sam was too funny.

rose mnor

"I don't believe John was abusive in the sense that he was an alcoholic or beat the boys, like many fans believe." Yeah, I also don't subscribe to this - if he was such an alcoholic it would impair his hunting capabilities, whereas John was described as such a skilled hunter. And if he was physically abusive, Dean was frantically looking for him plus John kept avoiding him the entirety of S1. Why would he try to get back to a physically abusive asshole, he was free of him, I just don't get it ... the math is not mathing, as kids say nowadays ... ... though I think John being neglectful can have a narrative purpose in the story, as I mentioned in my post. One of the ways of looking at it was, he was a hunter that can be killed at any time, and to make sure Dean can take care of both himself and Sam was to leave them alone when he had to, as a preemptive measure and training that Dean can and will be able to do so should John be really taken from them unexpectedly during their early years. That's what made him such an awfully bad father in the real world but in this universe and in that context, he had to. However, I don't think we've seen it as being presented this way by any of the writers, but we can certainly extrapolate such as it was, from the context of the story. John became a terrible father when they expanded the show, they maligned him to make it a more tragic backstory for Sam and Dean's childhood to serve a narrative purpose, which was not their initial intent ... but to give reasons for such purpose some will see it as a pathetic excuse to not paint John as a terrible individual, lol ... Yeah no, John is a terrible individual I do agree on that ... based on other things that will make it too long to continue this subject here ... sorry Amye for hijacking your post.

AdoptDontShopPets

@rose It is true that from the show we cannot confirm whether John was an alcoholic. However, to say he couldn’t have been because he was a good hunter…I think most agree Dean is an alcoholic and he even calls himself a functional alcoholic Dean does pretty good at hunting, so one doesn’t preclude the other. Going back to the pilot, which Kripke crafted magnificently to set the Supernatural universe, we get indications from Sam’s comments (working overtime on a Miller-time shift; and also something about being with Jim, Jack and Jose) that at minimum John abuses alcohol and is at least a binge drinker.

rose mnor

@AdoptDontShopPets Yes, thank you Karen, agree with you 100% that John and Dean at the very least would be at the same degree of alcoholism ... but my actual point, which didn't come across well in that sentence and therefore was misconstrued i.e. I didn't say "couldn't have been A because of B" because that is certainly not the case (sorry my bad), was fandom associated that problem - the alcoholism - with him was so, so far and much more than that - so won't that eventually hamper that hunting skills then - i.e fighting agility, senses sensitivity, marksmanship, etc? ... ergo, imo, that high level of alcoholism was an exaggeration and became one of the factors he was villainized by fandom at large ... and on top of that, those fans subscribe to the notion that his alcoholism contributed to him also physically abusing Dean whereby the canon that we can take away from S1 as mentioned didn't support that ... so if one aspect of fandom misconception (physically abusive) can be contradicted, the other one (a high degree of alcoholism) can be shaken lose too at the very least ... And about that Sam quote, he would be what age at that time, 22 so, 4 years since he ran away? His last confrontation with John would be at 18 if my math tracked. Young adult/late teenager then, who left his family with so many hurt feelings and anger that would be larger than life as he didn't call his family at all to repair that bridge. Like how teenagers talk, most of the parents' faults will be over the top and distance will exacerbate those hurt feelings. Therefore I posit that could be an exaggeration and angst talking (furthermore, if we listen to how Sam sometimes talked and looked down towards Dean in S1 - "name 3 kids you know Dean" when Dean actually raised him, "what is that?" referring to Dean's homemade emf meter - therefore if he talked a certain way to Dean, why not about John too considering their history)... but I digress, that's not the issue we are discussing here - again going back to my earlier point ... at the very least as you said John would be a binge drinker - anything more than that eventually as time passed (23 years at S1-end) by would certainly interfere with his faculties along the way - and binge drinking is different from an abusive alcoholic, isn't it ... thanks for not jumping on my throat, I know John is not your favorite person and discussing John's transgressions is a triggering subject for some fans ...

Brenda Lewis

Very well put. Dean's deepest desire has always been for his family to be together. Sammy is here, he got Mom back, the only thing lacking for him is wanting his father,

Adavan

I 100% agree with ALL of this. 😁

Adavan

I love this episode. I was really happy that the boys had those moments with John, I think it meant a lot to both of them. I also LOVE that Dean said that he was good with who he and Sam had become. Such a change. 😍 I'm very much like Sharon, I don't LOVE John, but I don't hate him either. I think he's layered and interesting, and I think sometimes people are way too hard on him. There's no doubt that he screwed up a lot, and made many parenting mistakes. But overall he loved the boys a lot, did a lot to try and keep them safe and prepare them for the world they were all dragged into. And he literally sacrificed his life and spent a century in hell to save Dean. He's not perfect, but I was REALLY happy to see him back. ❤️ And him leaving and having to say goodbye to Mary again, and the boys having to say goodbye to him again is utterly heartbreaking to me. I'm just a flood of tears every time I watch it. John holding Mary's hand, and saying "My girl" to her kills me every time. 😭 Love all the stuff with the kids and with the town members. Cool to see how people view the boys outside the hunting world. 😁