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Supernatural - 15x13 "Destiny's Child" Full Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-04 04:42:06
Imported:
2026-06
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Files

Destiny's Child - Full Version.mp4

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Comments

Emily

So happy that Jack got his soul back. Broke my heart though to see him go through the emotions of realizing what he did and asking their forgiveness. Almost to the end!

Kim Rigg

I am pretty laid back in relation to canon breaks and fan service when it is done well and for the main I liked this episode. It was great to see all the ladies back but they lost me in terms of Ruby and Sister Jo meeting. Ruby died before the angels fell and the writers did not even try to explain it. To sum up I enjoyed the episode but find it difficult to forgive the writers laziness on this one. PS. Love the Richesters!

Kim Rigg

If memory serves this episode was the last one to air before and an enforced COVID break. It was months before the next episode aired.

Purple Nurple

Yep. This aired in March and the next one aired in October.

rose mnor

I just love this episode it is one of my comfort goto episodes, i.e. episodes with a hilarious opening, to a pulled-heartstring-with-a-tearedup-eyes scene at the ending. Glad you like it too, Shelley, and such a great reaction, so many wtf expressions from you throughout this video ... With typical Bucklemming style, there were so many retconning and canon inconsistencies but as I posted in the last reaction episode comment, I simply DON'T CARE, lol ... as I had so much fun watching the episode ... Having said that, I did find many possible scenarios to the inconsistencies in the episode on tumblr, back in the day, so I am good with those explanations, mainly with regards to:- - timeline of Jo/Ruby meet-up, - timeline of when Jo chose her vessel, - how AU Sam+Dean can drive Baby when the boys+Cas+Jack actually took Baby in their quest to find the Occultum, - the Garden/Eden is not the Throne Garden from Dark Side of the Moon, ... to name a few ... we could just look at canon as it actually exists and make the most of it – regardless of authorial intent, i.e. what it had intended before now. As long as our interpretation actually holds up in canon, what the author intended is entirely irrelevant, and is much more satisfying ... So Jensen, Jared, and Misha were asked about who they wanted to appear/what plot to revisit in S15. We've seen Jensen's in that last episode. Jared I'm assuming requested for Gen/Ruby to come back, while Misha requested for Rachel Miner/Meg ... and this episode was delivered. The next episode is another banger episode, Shelley, S15 is on a roll, cannot wait to watch it with you ... (more on the episode in the reply ... I have much to say as I just love, love this episode)

rose mnor

The Occultum, which... is a weird little thing .... - it contains the Garden of Eden which humans cannot go to, but which Jack had to go to in order to restore his own humanity. - the Occultum must be inside you for you to be inside the Occultum - an angel and a demon conspired to use it together but neither could - the demon died and the angel couldn't find it - Death informed them of its existence, and it’s the place where Life began - they traveled to Hell and the Empty to find it, but it was always on Earth - in order for Jack to find his humanity, he had to remember his humanity by reliving his actions and experiences when he’d lost his humanity - the Occultum is the place where the Garden/Eden is - a crossroad between humanity and the divine - perfectly describes Jack who is a cross being between human and divine entity - the little girl was maybe the manifestation of the Garden so that Jack could communicate with her and have her answer Jack's questions, probably ...

rose mnor

We revisit again, the issue of Cas and his beliefs that he must be “useful” at all costs with Dean frustrated and telling him off for endangering himself ... If he has to sacrifice himself so the others can succeed, so be it. As long as they win. In this case, Cas risking himself to go to the singular place where he personally was most at risk in order to get the information they needed was indeed the choice that he made for himself ... Though it does feel like a progression toward understanding between them ... because that is their core character issue between them and had been all season. And I think Cas may understand intellectually what Dean is feeling, but he doesn’t quite understand it emotionally (as per the convo with the Jack scene) ... He just thought the risks he took were worth it, he believes he’s truly protecting them, truly helping, even if he understands what Dean has told him - about how important Cas is to him, how much he needs him, etc. Cas had not emotionally understood that yet, imo, and it feels like the setup to maximum angst ... and Jack was a perfect example of this. Cas’s current lack of perfect happiness despite Jack even getting his soul back in this episode ... ugh ... what is this possible angst that hangs glooming in our future in regards to Cas [insert we.just.don't.know.gif] .... ... and Jack finally experienced the profound suffering of truly feeling what he’d done, the emotional hurt he’d caused to the people he cared about most. He finally FELT the profound pain of Mary’s death. Intellectually he understood it, but feeling it is an entirely different thing. -- but also echoing what Cas once said (during the Demon Dean era) and they’re thematically consistent -- that only humans can experience true joy or such profound sadness, and it took Jack having his soul restored to actually feel it, after trying to work through what he was supposed to feel on an intellectual level with Cas earlier in the episode. CASTIEL: You know, Dean, he -- he feels things more acutely than any human I've ever known. So it's possible he could work through this. One day, he may explode and let it all out and breathe deeply and move on. JACK: How long will that take? CASTIEL: I don't know. In the script, Jack and Cas's convo was longer with Cas telling his version of how angry Dean was with him. Before Jack asked Cas when Dean will be able to forgive him, Cas said, CASTIEL: Yes, well ... I know what's it like to disappoint Dean *ouch* ON CASS. A beat then -- CASTIEL (his own story): It's possible Dean will work through it, and one day after ignoring you and the problem for what seems like centuries, he may explode, reproach you for all sorts of mistakes, breathe deeply, apologize, and move on. *.. oh Cas ... then only* JACK: How long will that take? CASTIEL: I don't know. via link: Production Draft Destiny's Child page 13/48 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t9gDvkmX2Oqi8G9SdxAxRFOHOFsBkO7n/view

rose mnor

... this post is about DeanCas ... so yada, yada ... "Funny thing about her plan though. She didn’t say anything about needing you," The Empty said to Cas about Death's plan ... We originally were introduced to The Empty as a metaphor for Cas’s depression and hopelessness, it’s very fitting but still horrifying since now, it was of angels and demons dreaming about their regrets. Forever ... Cas still feels like the wild card -- as pointed out by the Empty that he’s not part of the plan and yet he keeps coming through - with the blossom and in this episode with the occultum -- and yet Cas seems to be outside of Chuck’s personal observational radar... Cas was in nearly every image in 15.12 while Chuck went on and on about “Sam and Dean,” and yet didn’t even rate a mention by Chuck ... hmm ... [insert we.just.don't.know.gif] ... and we saw how when Cas was “dead” the camera focused mostly on Dean’s reaction? How he was worried and we kept getting shots of him saying “come on buddy”? How they were the ones being framed when arguing about Jack and the Occultum while Sam was off on his own holding the doors? Poor Sam holding the door with only a pair of handcuffs... and kept yelling at the three to help him, with an angel and nephilim that have immense powers between them ... lol... There's a doylist explanation from how it was filmed, it appears that they needed a way to film a good portion of that scene while Jared wasn’t actually there, and so kept him “holding the doors” while the rest of the action could take place without including him in the same shots ... so this is why it looks the way it does, but hoooboy have I ever been less inclined to rely on a doylist explanation for anything? Not when the alternative is “Dean and Cas are just too busy having parenting issues to even notice that Sam is struggling to bar the doors" *don't @ me on this you won't change my mind*

Jay

Shelley, I know you don't usually watch the 'previously' at the start of the episode but you have to go back and watch this one - it left a lot of people shaking their heads in bewilderment (especially people who don't enjoy metaphors and parallels) and some of us delirious with delight. Like you said, this episode is on crack.

Hasnaa

This episode is fun until you think about it for more than 2 mins, in a buckleming fashion this episode breaks canon in so many ways, sister Jo fell with the angels at the end of season 8 and ruby died at the end of season 4, no way they could've met, secondly why would taking cas's grace kill him? It should just make him a human like when metatron did it, I don't get why taking away his grace would make him go to the empty?? Not cas throwing in my face that he's so far from happy every fucking episode I feel sick, let this angel be happy without fear of fucking dying!!! Why are Sam and dean using cas's grace left and right with little regard to his already depleted grace? He already told them his powers are fading?! Last episode the bunker's warding needed a boost, sure use cas's grace, this episode they needed a portal, sure use cas's grace, he's not their on demand power source!!! As if I wasn't fucking worried enough about cas's empty deal when I thought the empty was just peaceful sleep, now buckleming fucking retconned it to being dreaming about your mistakes over and over and being tortured and miserable, wonderful 🤬 and cas replying to ruby with " I know" which means he already been tortured by the empty the first time he was sleeping there, I am going fight the writers. Is it weird that under Rowena's rule, I actually prefer to end up in hell than in heaven 😂. Also that go to a magical place to get your soul back is the most dues ex machina bullshit I have ever seen but glad jack has his soul back. Cas saying " dean feels things more acutely than anyone he's ever known" 😭😭😭 instant tears streaming down my face, he knows him so well 🥺. Of course I loved seeing Rachel minor again, I miss meg. I always enjoy seeing danneel my queen, just not sure the whole ruby and sister Jo thing works. Also AU Sam & dean say they drove baby but we literally see team free will in baby at the church, our dean literally took baby with him so how the hell would the richesters drive it!!! Massive continuity error. Also we saw the garden of Eden in season 5 when we visited Joshua and it looked nothing like this occultism place and it actually was just part of heaven. I know people call this episode fan service but I actually think it's just buckleming checking a list of things they always wanted to do or something coz I never saw anyone in the fandom pushing for danneel and Genevieve to have scenes together lol. My favorite part of this episode is definitely the richesters, this is what Sam and dean would've become if john wasn't so shitty! Wow, they seem way more comfortable in their skin and lighter even though they still hunt monsters, huge difference just if they had a supportive dad (and also were rich but that's besides the point) sigh, what could've been, Sam and dean without daddy issues, seems lovely. Also the empty saying that Billie didn't mention cas as part of the plan to kill god?! Rude! Cas comes through a lot actually and the winchesters would be long dead without him but okay

rose mnor

If I may, I would like to attempt to give some clarifications on those canon inconsistencies and/or retconning of the episode. Mostly extracted from Superwiki, and if my own interpretations I will precede with IMO meaning In My Opinion. 1) Jo/Ruby working together IMO - Lillith and Michael working together opened the door for this theory. From 15.08 Our Father, Who Aren't in Heaven (Written by: Eugenie Ross-Leming and Brad Buckner) MICHAEL: Then why would he send you, a demon, a speck of infernal bile? LILITH: One, ouch. Two, maybe because we worked together before. Remember? Setting off the Apocalypse? IMO - Lilith needed to be killed for Lucifer to walk free in S4 ending. This will motivate Ruby to find ways to look out for herself afterward if things don't go as planned and she is left alone to fend for herself. Ruby was on her own in S3+S4 where almost all demons hated her, hence working with Jo as a backup, or for whatever purpose, is not that far-fetched. IMO - Ruby worked closely with Lilith, so she was in the position to know the whole full plan of angels working with demons to facilitate her to pull the long con over Sam. IMO - Jo was Joshua's right-hand angel, Joshua who also talked with God. This might open the door to the possibility of her knowing of the Occultum. 2) Sister Jo From Superwiki: Sister Jo is an angel who was formerly known as Anael in Heaven, where she worked as Joshua's right-hand angel. She spurned Joshua's offer of more responsibilities after visiting Earth and seeing the pain and suffering of humans and questioning why God does nothing. As a result, she was demoted to a low-level functionary, counting souls as they enter Heaven. At some point afterwards, a disillusioned Anael left Heaven and struck a deal with a woman praying for her dying husband -- in exchange for saving her husband, Anael would get her as a vessel. From Superwiki: The character of Sister Jo herself could be considered an unreliable narrator throughout her appearances, regarding what she reveals of her past and motivations. IMO - Hence, whatever Jo said to others cannot be treated as the show's truth or the full story, for example, her backstory to Lucifer, From 13.13 Devil's Bargain (Written by: Eugenie Ross-Leming and Brad Buckner) SISTER JO: After the fall, all the angels were a mess. Desperate for housing, any vessel would do. And they had no long game. I, on the other hand, took some care. I listened. A woman was praying for her dying husband, so we made a trade. IMO - ... she didn't exactly say that she took her vessel during the fall, only how she chose said vessel ... From Superwiki: However, in 14.17 Game Night Jo mentions visiting Earth at an unspecified time in the past to Castiel and becoming disenchanted by Heaven. IMO - this opened the door for the headcanon of Jo being on Earth before The Fall 3) The Garden/Eden is not in Heaven, it is on Earth From: 5.16 Dark Side of the Moon (Written by: Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin) ASH: Mm-hmm. Yeah. See you got Winchesterland. (He holds up his hands to indicate the bar.) Ashland. (He points all around outside the bar.) A whole mess of everybody-else-lands. Put them all together: heaven. Right? At the center of it all? Is the Magic Kingdom. The Garden. JOSHUA: You see what you want to here. For some it’s God’s throne room; for others it’s Eden. You two, I believe it’s the Cleveland Botanical Gardens. You came here on a field trip. IMO - Heaven's garden which is in the center of Heaven, is not Eden. From Superwiki: The Garden/Eden/Occultum When humanity was exiled from the Garden of Eden, God hid it away by compressing this alternate realm into an orb and hiding it somewhere on Earth. This orb eventually became known as the Occultum: a sacred artifact of divine origin that even predates the lore. Furthermore, From: 15.13 Destiny's Child Written by: Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming SISTER JO: And maybe things go your way. But maybe they go Heaven's, and if they do, everyone will need a Plan B. (...more lines ...) RUBY: You said we'd all be dead. SISTER JO: We don't have to be. Not if we ride it out in the safest place that exists. RUBY: I'm not following. SISTER JO: The Occultum. IMO - Jo said: "the safest place that exists..." isn't in Heaven as Ruby cannot enter Heaven. 4) AU Sam+Dean driving Baby IMO - We can extrapolate that some time had lapsed when Sam+Dean+Cas+Jack came back, as we saw Cas had to talk and calm Jack down, to find out what happened when he disappeared, etc, etc. Maybe 15 minutes, half an hour, and an hour ... it can happen during these times ... 5) Jack pulling Cas's grace for him to go to the Empty IMO - an unvesseled angel is a construct of the combination of both angel grace + angel life force (that could be another form of their identity) ... to become a beam of light. From: 15.13 Destiny's Child Written by: Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming CASTIEL: .... I need you draw out most of my life force .... IMO - Jack pulled Cas's grace + his life force just like in 14.14 Ourosboros when he pulled Michael's grace + life force from Michael!Rowena. Jack then said, "Michael -- He's dead." It can be extrapolated that he burned Michael's life force and only consumed the grace ... IMO - Cas's body is his own, there's no one who resides in Cas. When Cas angelness was pulled out, the body was empty, hence will appear dead to others. ETA - IMO - another example - when Metatron's grace was taken by Cas in 10.17, he was powerless but still retained his identity - therefore the life force is also an angel's identity while the grace is their power. Grace can be consumed by another angel but is still identifiable of who is the original owner ...

RedStalkingDeath

Popped in just to make the same suggestion! Would love to hear Shelley's take on that

Jay

This is a truly heroic breakdown! I'd add to point another explanation for 4): AU Dean doesn't say they drove the Impala, he calls it "The Car" - could be any of the vintage cars in the bunker garage (which we saw in the Oz episode), only our Dean would assume it means Baby - and AU Dean and Sam have very different tastes in everything else. You make a really good point about Anael being an unreliable narrator – I think it's safe to assume no characters are ever 100% reliable, which is something fans often forget. (My personal bugbear is the assumption that Alistair tells Dean the truth about John holding out for 100 years - no way was the man who bounced out of the hell gates at the end of season 2 being tortured in the way Dean was tortured! Dean's the only one in hell who has the 1 month = 10 years experience, too - he gets special treatment to break him for the apocalypse)

rose mnor

Haha, thanks for saying that, and thank you for reading ... it wasn't really that massive an effort, mainly I just copy+paste+googling Superwiki. Definitely an easy undertaking (with my SPN brain rot, lol) ... only compiling my thoughts took a bit of time. - #4) I know right!? why did we just immediately assume the Impala *myself included*? LOL ... but since this was such a long-winded assignment already (not!..) I had chosen the time-lapse one since on TV shows, a break in between scenes (esp after a commercial break), can justify how many long hours/time lapses we want to headcanon. - and ditto on John not being on the rack and just conveniently walking out from hell gate looking no different than when he died if he was supposed to be tortured or at least he should be under lock&key ... - and Jo/Anael - how can we rely on her words as the show's truth when in just this episode she already lied on 3 occasions - to Sam+Dean about the Occultum, about Ruby, and to the disabled person looking for her and wanting to be healed by her ...

Amye Sabin

Sister Jo's betrayal is a sign that someone that you think is a friend or is helping, really isn't. Alot of this season is about perceptions. Ketch dying for the Winchesters, Sister Jo's setting them up, Amara's weakness (in my eyes. where's the badass desroyer of S11?), Belphagor's betrayal. I love the return of Rachel Miner. She's so fabulous. Tho I was unsure of Cas's plan, it did work. I did find the occultim storyline kind of lame, tho. That whole garden scene was stupid. But at least Jack's got his soul back. Alt-Sam & Dean are a trip. In one of the bloopers Jensen, as Alt-Dean falls backward out of his chair. It's so funny! I like that they are still around, just fighting in the southern hempishere of the world.