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Supernatural - 15x18 "Despair" Full Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2023-10-29 07:16:45
Imported:
2026-06
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Despair - Full Version.mp4

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rose mnor

OMG it's here! ... I'm so scared to click the link I'm already crying even before watching, this is gonna be so hard for me ... so sorry Shelley ...

Kristin Dorner

EEEEEEK THE ONE WE’VE BEEN WAITING FOR🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻 CAS IS IN LOVE WITH DEEEEEEAN!!! CANONNICALY, TEXTUALLY IN. ROMANTIC. LOVE. WITH. HIM!!!!!! (To all those “it’s up to interpretation” people, NO IT’S NOT. Dean’s response or feelings can be but CAS’ FEELINGS ARE CANNON) You can never understand the absolute INSANITY of November 5th, 2020. THE FUCKING PRESIDENTAL ELECTION BETWEEN BIDEN AND TRUMP WAS STILL BEING DECIDED AND DESTIEL TRENDED OVER IT FOR LIKE 12 HOURS! This is my Roman Empire and nothing will ever replace it. Misha and Jensen MURDERED me with their performances. They edited the hell out of it (Jensen had someone record them doing this on his phone bc he wanted the raw footage bc he knew how much it would probably be edited for crying out loud), but it’s still one of the most beautiful character moments I have ever seen in my entire media consuming life. AND UUUUUUGH THE HANDPRIIIIIIIIINT😭😭😭😭😭 That wasn’t even SCRIPTED!! Jensen and Misha and Rich came up with that ON THE DAY OF FILMING!!! You said it on your third watch through of The Confession, the worst thing and the best thing I’ve ever seen. And I think it’s so important to recognize the tiny moment at the end where Sam called Dean, Dean recognizes it’s from Sam, and HE DOESN’T ANSWER. Instead he lets himself feel Cas’ loss. Mr. Bury all the feelings, ignore the trauma and play through the pain ignored a phone call from his brother when he knows that Chuck is dusting everyone and allows himself to break down. In.Sanity. Honestly I can’t wait for the fan content stuff from this night. It was a WILD time to be a Destiel shipper 😂

Luis Nov

Before I hit play and get sleep deprived, are you okay?

Kit

Ahhhhhh I can’t believe it’s here 😭🤍

Purple Nurple

Oh boy… I cried all day after watching this ep for the first time. (I’m not expecting a fan edit as scheduled)… now tea… and let’s watch it

Rae

sending you good vibes - the emotional hangover from this is unreal. you'll be hearing so much fandom and behind the scenes lore now - be prepared. :) and welcome to the club of rewatching the scene in disbelief. i could say a zillion things (the handprint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! crying on the floor!!!!!!) but this ep still makes me have huge feelings years later. changed forever, indeed. genuinely nothing has ever compared to the emotional rollercoaster of that evening lolsob. ps: the rupture, the trap and despair were bobo berens episodes and they all HIT the destiel feels so hard. the divorce, deans prayer/confession, then this. final edit: as you can imagine the interpretation of this episode and confession scene are quite divisive in the fandom, with people disagreeing on nearly every aspect of it (what is canon, was it romantic, is it bury your gays, is it just fanservice, does what the actors say count for or against etc etc) and im sure you will see a lot of opinions. my hope is that you just enjoy the rest of the show. there's something for everyone in supernatural.

Gigi

November 5 2020 is one for the history books, it was such a chaotic day on twitter!!

NSTG_Eddie

I was waiting for this one it’s a tough one especially sooooo close to the end my reaction to it live 3 yrs ago was same as yours Shelley just disbelief and sobbing can I Say Misha did a hell of a job with that scene letting Castiel shed a tear forever a moment in this show that is in our minds forever! 2 more holy crap well 3 if you count The Long Way Home special Before the finale but I cannot wait to see how you feel after episode 20 I’m sure I’m not the only one👍🏻🫶🏻

BunkerGirl

It doesn't matter how many times I've watched this episode, I still sob uncontrollably all through Cas's confession to Dean. I feel literal pain in my heart 😢😢😢 And the handprint! Omg. Btw Jensen came up with the idea to add that day of on set. My heart.😢 You asked what it was like when we watched it air. It was a huge deal. The Internet went bonkers. Twitter and Tumblr exploded. It was a big debate among viewers how Cas meant that "I love you ". Personally, I don't see how it can be taken as anything but a romantic declaration of love. I think him saying that he knows he can never have what he truly wants makes that clear. On top of that, in a recorded group video chat w Misha, Ruth, Mark Sheppard, and Richard S, the episode director and others discussing this episode (before some of them saw it or knew what happened) Misha flat out said that "Cas makes a homosexual declaration of his love to Dean" and then Mark S said we all knew Cas was in love with Dean. It wasn't a joking conversation . So on one hand, I'm thrilled that Cas was able to say how he truly felt and be happy. On the other hand, I HATE that doing so cast him into the empty. While I really wish Dean would have said something back...I can also understand that Dean takes awhile to process anything feelings related.. and even if he feels the same (which I believe he does, even if he can't fully admit it even to himself), I get why in the heat of everything happening he would have felt overwhelmed and not entirely able to process everything yet. But we see him so shattered sitting there that he doesn't even answer a call from Sam. From SAM... Who he knows is dealing with the whole disappearing people mess. He still ignores his call. Dean is broken, and that breaks my heart too. 😢💙💚 Btw the night this aired, Destiel was the top trending hashtag...even over the tags about the election count!!💙💚 (Btw, I bought one of Misha's 'For Love" tshirts with the handprint on the arm from Stands and it's one of my favorites 🙂💚💙)

Sare

Emme C.

I’m not a major fanfic person but I spent a long time after this ep checking in on tumblr and ao3 looking for fix-it fics to make me feel better. I was like “I don’t even care how the show really ends. Someone write me a damn happily ever after for this episode!” 😂😂😂

Aubrey Terry

It's hard for me to watch this episode. I rewatched it with you and now I'm bawling. Cass had me from his first episode and watching his confession affirmed all the subtext through the whole series. I had to sit for what felt like hours to process what I had just seen. Wouldn't blame you if you needed a couple days.

Luis Nov

It is the Dean not picking Sam’s call and then started to quietly crying like that that got me, and the handprint on Deans jacket as it was the first mark that Cas left in Dean. Dont mind me, just gonna cry a bit more

Rae

had a sudden memory of jensen in a zoom interview talking about the handprint - "that's going to make somebody scream in their apartment" - yes jensen. it will. 😂

Duck

Someone's already mentioned it but I feel it bears emphasizing that this episode aired when we still didn't know who had won the US presidential election of 2020. It was one hell of a week, to say the least.

Kristin Dorner

Ok, everything else, lol: I loved that they gave Charlie a girlfriend🥰 I thought she was so cool in 15x3 and I love that they brought her back!! That part when they’re all racing to Eileen and you’re watching the text bubbles and they disappear…honestly genius. The tension there was so incredible! And poor Sam, “I can’t go there or I’ll lose my mind and I can’t right now”😭😭😭😭 And poor Jack😭 He’s only what…5ish years old? And he feels the responsibility of keeping all his dads and the whole world safe. What a horrible burden😭

Vel

Thank you for sharing all of this, Sare. Beautifully said. Let's hope all the talented people who make fan content will equally represent the cast, the writers and the directors and their intentions for this episode (and the finale) so Shelley can see the proof too.

Rae

oh my gosh. that night was unreal. nothing like it before or since.

Klaara

I'm sorry but there is no room for other interpretations from Castiel's side in the scene. The scene is not ambiguous. It's "Dean can't reciprocate" not "Dean doesn't reciprocate" which would suggest that he can't reciprocate for whatever reason and that could definitely indicate that there's no time or he's too stunned to do that. And if I remember correctly, Jensen has never said that Castiel's feelings are open to interpretation. He has also never said that Dean doesn't love Cas back in the same way. He said he played Dean not being aware of that Cas loved Dean. He did not say that he didn't play Dean as being in love with Cas. Can we not twist his words please. He has been very supportive of Destiel in recent years so he would not say that Dean isn't in love with Cas. If you don't think Dean is in love with Cas, you do you I guess, but that's not a fact.

Leticia

ive never been a shipper of Dean and Cas. i know a lot of people do and im fine with it. to me, Cas saying I love you to Dean was how Dean would say it, in a brotherly way. thats how Dean always thought of Cas, as a brother. i get it how all the destiel people seen it as something different... Jensen has said it himself that Dean never thought of Cas in 'that way', thats been my thought too since we were introduced to Cas in season 4. either way, it was still so emotional to watch this episode, especially that scene, because of the Empty taking Cas and it being in front of Dean. and you know Dean was still trying to process it when he ignored Sams calls to sit there and cry after losing Cas. Amazing acting from Jensen and Misha in that scene, and cant forget about Sam, Charlie, DOnna, Bobby and everyone else..

Vel

1:23:42 Shelley: "What happened?" Well...other than the Nov 5th trends that have already been mentioned. Misha capitalized on the moment by rolling out "for love" themed merch. Conspiracies were launched throughout the fandom - none of which bore any fruition (I'm sure many will be shared here in the comments at some point). And the memes...OMG the memes of the "ILY" moment with Dean's stony expression are still in circulation to this day. This AND the finale (which we will soon discuss) truly had an impact.

Vel

Supportive of destiel shippers having their own interpretation is not the same thing as agreeing with that interpretation. Sare is NOT the one twisting anything.

rose mnor

Imma gonna talk about Gimme Shelter for a bit before posting my comments on this episode later ... Gimme Shelter, the episode was promoted as Cas centric episode. As a refresher: Cas and Jack went to investigate a human case, murdered in an alley, with LIAR carved on his chest. Shelley, you weren't quite clear on how the parallel works for the characters at that time. Well, now we can see it after watching Despair... SYLVIA: ... Connor and I, we... dated, years ago... sort of. More like we watched a lot of old movies together. Sylvia killed Conner who turned out to be gay as per what the Pastor revealed to Cas. Sylvia considered them to be dating in the past, and since she was an emotionally unstable person, she was revealed to have killed Conner because she deemed that Conner lied to her, or that he was gay. ... and Sylvia and her dead mother, who was a fanatic who wanted to go back to the older church order/style of practice, can be mirrors for the Empty (Sylvia) and Billie (Sylvia's mother). So then Cas investigates this case, in which the victim was a male, a kind and sympathetically inclined guy, who volunteered at a church-like place, who was also revealed to be gay, and because of that revealed, he was dragged and killed in a dark alley, by something that operated in the shadows … this plot is foreshadowing Cas here. Conner then can be seen as Cas's mirror, and we can only make the connections in hindsight, making this episode a foreshadowing of Cas's future fate. And then in my previous post about that episode, I went on and on about how, since it was quite clear now that Conner is a Cas parallel, we can extrapolate that " .... we watched a lot of old movies together" also a callback to Davy Perez's earlier episode, Tombstone, as there were easter eggs planted in the episode, with how Dean made Cas watch old movies, Cas's photo from the episode, and so forth ...

Simone

It did!

Simone

I can't believe you just did that to yourself three times in a row. Cas' confession is one of the most beautiful and devastating things the show has ever done, and I think a lot of us STILL can't re-watch it without crying.

Simone

I got spoiled for this episode when I opened a major newssite to check if there was an election result. The insanity of that day...

Purple Nurple

Everyone sees it their own way. I'm not a shipper but I saw it in a romantic way from Cas so it's not just destiel shippers. But I understand how people see it differently. I do think Dean has never thought of Cas in a romantic way. After rewatching the show after having watched this I see where some of the destiel hints come in - even if I didn't interpret it that way myself on my first watch.

Purple Nurple

I know. I'm so glad she watched it that second time at least as the hand print was noticed then. It's hard to hear it on first watch - but Dean's sobs at the end as well. I only heard them when I was watching a reactor and I had my headphones in. You can literally hear Dean sobbing :(

Purple Nurple

I may have just posted that meme in the discord...

Klaara

I'm not gonna argue with people who don't understand the complex nature of this situation. My point was that Jensen has not said that Dean isn't in love with Cas.

Kit

First of all: this is a ROMANTIC declaration of love and that is NOT up for interpretation. And if you’re so anti destiel that you refuse to acknowledge it is romantic, how the hell do you interpret “the one thing I want is something I know I can’t have” because if u say he wanted to be like Dean’s brother , Dean has already called him that, so he already has it! Second of all, unfortunately Dean’s side does remain subtextual, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t love cas romantically— there is a LOT of subtext and this entire season they have been written with romantic storylines (like the divorce) and it takes two to have a romance written about you! And if your argument is “but he didn’t say it back” we KNOW Dean takes ages to process feelings, so do you really think that in the few seconds of opportunity he got, Dean had processed enough to say it back?? Thirdly, it was Jensen’s idea to do the hand print. Jensen gave his phone to a crew member to record the raw footage because he wanted that scene unedited on his phone. And we can tell it was HEAVILY edited— the continuity with Dean crying is all screwed up, he’s crying at different amounts with different shots ranging from dry eyed to practically streaming. Jensen has also talked about this scene as being one of the most emotional he’s ever filmed. Jensen has also said that he was told what would happen at the start of the season and he made acting choices throughout the season that fit with what happens in this episode. So knowing all of this, people that say that Jensen didn’t want this or was forced to do this are completely lying. Jensen has also said that at the end when Dean is crying on the floor, he was thinking “I should have said I love you back” (when the crowd started cheering he realised his mistake— a lot of people think that Jensen has a contract saying that he can’t make comment on Dean’s feelings toward cas but that’s just a theory— and he started backpedaling saying in a brotherly way)

Simone

I know. It breaks my heart just thinking about it.

Kit

Anyway to sum this up, it’s insane that this happened!!! I didn’t think it ever would but go misha for convincing the producers and go bobo and Richard for writing and directing this so wonderfully (the shot where the empty engulfs cas is shot in the exact same way with the same proportions as the shot where cas first shows his wings so they line up wonderfully for edits lol)

Kit

Oh also! Charlie and stevie paralleled with Dean and cas 😭

Leticia

for me, all the looks and comments towards Cas throughout the series, like back in season 6 when Dean said 'Cas, not for nothing but the last person who looked at me like that, i got laid', to me, that wasnt full on flirting, to me, that was a guy saying that to his best friend, like guys do. i didnt see anything more to it than that... and yes there were times where they maybe had a 'moment' but to me, i never saw it.. and even though im not a shipper of them, i have great friends in this fandom that are shippers and we both have an understanding of where the other stands with this ship.. also, even though i dont ship them, i have watched edits of them on Youtube, more than i care to admit to lol.. and yes i agree, everyone sees it in their own way.. thats what makes us different.. and yes i have seen some hints too of how and why people do ship them.. sorry this is a long comment lol.. i always have a lot to say apparently lol

Kim Rigg

I kind of envy you not being directly involved in the full fandom for the end of the show. This episode brought out a lot of emotion and passion which is so wonderful for a simple TV show. However, some people channelled that emotion into a negative / toxic way fuelling fan wars and hate towards the actors. I personally found it quite distressing and turned away from social media (twitter) because of it.

Vel

I'm not a shipper either. And I can agree that subtext exists in a fun way. But it's not just one particular ship - the cast and even the writers throw ALL THE SHIPPERS a bone every now and again, so I can't sit here and pretend that the show was leading anybody on or intended certain endgames for the shippers.

Leticia

i agree Vel.. the subtext was there the entire time.. and yes the cast, and the writers did what they did towards that.. and im the same way, im not pretending either that we were being led on or that the ship was endgame.. the main problem i have with the ship is when the people who ship them (certain ones, not Shelley) try to make us non shippers ship two characters and if we dont ship them, apparently we arent 'real fans' if we dont ship them.

Vel

You are so right. When it got to the point where I was seeing destiel fans turning on Bobo and Misha I knew we had reached insane levels of toxicity. It didn't even make sense anymore.

Klaara

I wanted to correct misconceptions about the situation and what Jensen had said because I don't like when people twist his words and spread false information. Like I said: You are trying to claim that Jensen has said that Dean isn't in love with Cas, which isn't true. He has only proposed other interpretations, he hasn't told people how they should see it.

Kit

ARGHHHH CANT BELIEVE I FORGOT TO MENTION THE SPANISH DUB soooo in the Spanish dub of this episode, when cas says I love you and dean says don’t do this cas, the dub changes Dean response to “y yo a ti cas” which is “and I you, cas” so DEAN RECIPROCATES IN SPANISH hence you’ll see the phrase y yo a ti in the fandom a lot. Also if I remember this right, in the Italian dub they used the word for love that means platonic love instead of the romantic word, which caused misha to tweet out “love is love in any language” in Italian. Another thing to note : in the script it says one of cas’ thoughts as “but still beautiful, still dean Winchester” when looking at Dean which became an ICONIC line in the destiel fan world and someone even got a cameo of misha saying it in cas’ voice

rose mnor

Only in Supernatural where a forbidden love that an angel feels towards a human, that wasn't talked about by the angel in question since forever, whereby said angel already declared his platonic love to the human plus his family et al thus said human is already aware of such love as the said angel is not hesitant to act upon that platonic love ... and then the poor angel died because declaring the other type of love to his object of affection was a curse upon him and by him declaring it, was to break the curse and he used said declaration as a means to saving said human ... how such love is again taken as platonic I got no words ... go figure ... ... and the monologue was written and discussed thoroughly on the first day of S15 in the writers' room for the declaration to be treated as platonic ... smh Castiel's canon arc is about how he fell in love with Dean and through Dean he learned to love for the first time ever in general & thus saved the world numerous times

Helen Wood

This one is shard to watch, but also brilliant. The next episode is my favourite in the whole of Supernatural. On every rewatch, I go straight from that one back to the Pilot. One thing that always amazes me about Despair is that the amazing Lisa Berry was eight months pregnant when they filmed. Just a few weeks later, she gave birth to a beautiful little boy.

Vel

I don't agree that the subtext was there all the time, but I do think that if shippers had kept their cool and not pushed the issue outside of the fandom and into Jensen's face that it could have been a lot more than what they got. But when people are literally telling the actor that he's wrong or is saying yes when it's no - I mean, I'd be upset too. It's just sad all around. IMO there is proof of that theory with other shippers who kept their chill. And I say this as someone who doesn't ship anything at all. We can talk about that after the finale though. ;)

Leticia

absolutely!!! i hate that they have pushed it in his face, he doesnt deserve that. i agree again, i would be upset too and it is sad... the ship that i have with the show characters are Cas/Meg, and Sam/Eileen

Vel

I think they got lost wandering away from Goob's server. Poor thing.

Kim Rigg

Absolutely and Jensen getting hit by fandom and non fandom people re: Dean response. I do not care who people favour from a character, actor or ship point of view but sadly the end of the show was spoiled for me because of the bad behaviour from a minority on all sides.

Jay

We all feel for you Shelley! I've got nothing to add to your response, but some nuggets of info for you. In the script, there's a direction that Cas is looking at Dean just before he makes his speech, thinking: "Still beautiful, still Dean Winchester". As you rightly say, Destiel is made canon in this episode (you have to be seriously odd to see this as platonic). Misha has talked about how the team and the writers set out with intent to put Cas's declaration of romantic love there. After this screened, Jensen talked about how he got a crew member to film it on his phone while they were shooting. He was so excited about the scene and how it went - and how everyone involved, from Rich who directed it to the costume and design department, had worked to make it as good as it could be. The original title of this episode was not Despair, but The Truth. It was the last episode they filmed before the Covid hiatus. The next two were filmed during Covid and I think Supernatural was the first network show to go back to filming, so it was something of a guinea pig for filming with Covid protocols.

BexFangirl

I've waited for this episode ever since I started watching your reactions. The episode that broke the internet. That made nov 5th a tumblr holiday to celebrate the anniversary. That made me really aware of this fandom and eventually led to me watching the show. So I knew the confession scene (had even watched it a couple times) before I started the show. The confession scene that became THE meme to inform people of news. Thanks Robert Berens for writing this. Thanks Richard Speight Jr for directing.

rose mnor

A few of real-life events around the time the episode aired on November 5, 2020:- From Jensen: highlights of an M&G with Jensen Ackles November 16th, 2020 - Jensen asked a crew member to record the scene on his phone because he wanted to remember from HIS perspective and not Dean's since that one will be heavily edited with music, special effects, and whatnot - HIS perspective - meaning he wants to remember and go back and watch how this happened between irl friends and the characters' life friends - Jensen watched a few reaction videos specific to this episode (he said he rarely ever does and as far as I know Jensen hasn't mentioned any other S15 ones) and he did it for ep 18, as Misha told him that the episode was trending - This particular reaction video by Abnormallyadam, via a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFP2mWCfFFI got his attention, and he sent that one to Misha, and Misha sent him another, lol. From Misha: highlights of an M&G at #DLConline Dec 2020 - He's been playing Cas as in love with Dean for a while - He doesn't think Dean reciprocated but he can't say, and Misha and Cas both don't know. - Bobo pitched the confession and Misha gave notes because it didn't have 'the punch it needed' - That this happened on screen was very important to Bobo Berens and Misha Collins - This vindication and this expression of love - at the end - it makes it all worth it. - He was 'a little worried' about what Jensen would think when he found out about the plan, because if he flipped out they would not have done it. Bobo tweeted to DeanCas antis' rants, saying, Cope https://twitter.com/robertberens/status/1324767789287010304 A fan tweets at Ruth Connell complaining about 15.18. She responds, “The love exists both ways perhaps in slightly different ways. Love transcends narrow definition. No one is asking anyone to choose. The players both very empowered men. Rather I hope you further examine any fear, preoccupation or confusion you have with this storyline. She then deleted the tweet after being bombarded with antis' tweets for 2 days via screencap link: https://www.tumblr.com/roguecas/634346616168513536/comrade-ruth In the zoom call where Misha discusses Castiel’s “homosexual declaration of love”, Mark Sheppard says “We all knew” that Castiel was in love with Dean. According to writer Meghan Fitzmartin, 15.18 was drafted the first day the writers were back in the writer’s room for season 15 specifically Cas' monologue scene was written on the first day in the writers' room for season 15. via link: https://twitter.com/megfitz89/status/1324574165790199808 A fan tweeted: "One thing I freaking LOVE about the Despair episode is that there wasn’t any wild and out there or even some of the usual attempts to hide @_LisaBerry’s pregnancy. There are full body shots with bump and it makes me so happy. Thank you @dicksp8jr" ... and Lisa Berry responded: I loved it too —Death carrying life. #spn 🖤💀 https://twitter.com/_LisaBerry/status/1456738019994648577 This is the only episode that I’ve remembered that has changed title 3 times: It started as “Despair”, changed to “The Truth”, Feb 2020 from script draft - Despair Mar 2020 from Spoiler TV - The Truth then changed back to “Despair” for broadcast. Some of the headlines for online magazines after this episode aired https://www.tumblr.com/barren-heart/665603901694836736/this-will-never-be-erased-or-forgotten

Klaara

Yeah that's real mature... I was literally just correcting false statements, that's it. I won't comment again because I'm done talking sense to people like you.

rose mnor

From SDCC 2019 Supernatural EP Robert Berens on why he chose to return for the final season: (at the 2.09 mark) https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=o9VFFWaE9pE ... basically he said: why he left going to S2 Doom Patrol and came back instead to Supernatural after S14 when his contract ended, " ... Truthfully, what brought me back is the final season. I think having conversations with Meredith, about some ideas she had and some ideas I had ... I was like I can't walk away from this. And it's the chance to close this massive story that people are emotionally invested in." And I wish a lifetime of blessings upon Bobo for being wonderful and seeing the same potential for the story that so many fans could see.

Vel

That's why this fandom can't have nice things. It sucks, but it's true.

rose mnor

We narrowly missed having Misha in S15. The story from an M&G Crossroad3: After S14, Misha renegotiated his contract to get a fraction of what J2 made and threatened to leave if he did not get it. The head of CW refused and Misha thought that was it. This was during JIB so flying back from Rome to NY for CW Upfronts, he thought, fine, he will book a flight to LA after landing there thinking he won't be in S15. When he landed in LA his manager messaged him, good news, the CW heads reflected on it and gave in to his demand. So he booked a flight back to NY for the upfronts. So he went Rome-NY-LA-NY straight to the upfronts. Basically, Misha got a significant raise in salary for S15. On May 16, 2019, the upfronts were held. On April 19, 2019, this article came out, via a tweet by Misha: "This is incredibly heartwarming. I thought the @TheCW had given up on me." https://twitter.com/mishacollins/status/1119379300975661056 The article: CW Giving Away Misha Collins Free to a Good Home https://hard-drive.net/hd/entertainment/cw-giving-away-misha-collins-free-to-a-good-home/ When the article first came out, I read it with such hilarity in my mind, but since I now knew about the preceding story, you kinda can see the passive-aggressive, retaliation, and infantilizing tone in the piece. The spokesperson for the CW Network wasn't even named, should have raised the red flag there. Yall can read for yourself what I mean: The spokesperson addressed some concerns about rehoming Collins this far in his career. “Misha has been with his Supernatural family for 11 years, which is about 40 in actor-years, but he’s got so much more love to give. We know that if we can find him a nice studio upstate who will let him be series regular on a hospital drama or host some kind of cooking show, he’s got a few good seasons still left in him.” According to the ad put up by the network following the press conference, Collins is trailer-trained, knows the commands ‘speak’ and ‘play dead,’ and is up-to-date on his headshots and rabies shots.

rose mnor

DeanCas fandom has been through a lot - A LOT! ... S8, imo, they nearly went there but only for the show to change its mind last minute ... but Robbie Thompson revealed he did try to write a love story, but was rejected, Q: And yes, Thompson has some feelings about Supernatural's lack of romance. "I tried. I tried for years," he says about pitching romances. "And I was always roundly rejected, so I guess this [The Winchesters] is my revenge." via link: https://www.tvguide.com/news/the-winchesters-boss-breaks-down-what-secrets-will-be-revealed-after-that-series-premiere/ Imo, we can presume Robbie meant via his first try, Goodbye Stranger. Filming dates for Goodbye Stranger were Wed, 30 Jan 2013 to Fri, 8 Feb 2013. Robbie tweeted cheekily asking "Destiel isn't canon?" in response to a fan, and continued tweeting about it with others, dated Jan 21, 2013, via source: https://web.archive.org/web/20211201084612/https://twitter.com/rthompson1138/status/293602457458704385 ... implying to me, things about to sail ... Robbie, imo, he was under the impression that the scripted "I love you" from Dean to Cas (re the crypt scene) was going to be filmed soon, but alas, Jensen changed the line to "I need you", which is fair, by the end of it, it was a better choice ... I guess by now DeanCas fandom might have realized *why* Carver pulled back from what he believed had been the final season’s intended series ended in late S8. The show was renewed, and given TWO more seasons, even! We saw his cards though, the trials might have been mirroring the S5 Swan Song endgame for Sam, and all the ingredients of Metatron's spell, pointing to love between human and angel, as the possible endgame plan for Dean and human Cas. He gave us enough of a peek in s8 to prime us ALL to see the thing, you know? And then WHOOPSIE?! It’s gonna go to s10? (Carver then came up with his “three-act structure” that was intended at the time to bring the series to a close at the end of s10). When we saw the premiere of S9 plus the first block of 3 episodes with no groundwork laid in the plot-line for furthering the Dean and Cas's relationship, a collective disappointment sigh was heard online among us, as THAT lack meant an indication of no possible arcs between them for the season ... but we did get some crumbs later half of the season, again via Metatron's shenanigans. ... but then WHOOPSIE AGAIN! They were renewed for s11 early and decided to keep making the show. This was also when they got word from the network that even future renewals were relatively “safe,” and “as long as they wanna keep making Supernatural, they’ll have a home at CW” or something to that effect. So the show went from “well we might only have one more season to wrap it all up” to an open-ended “until you’re ready to bring it to a close” storytelling. ... and every DeanCas fan worth their salt knew what the heck the widower's arc was about, hoo boy the vindications that were felt that we were not wrong about why the heck Dean's emotional arc was front and center for the first half of S13, when on November 21, 2020 after the series finale, we discovered via tumblr about THE THING! ... yeah The Market Research ...

Vel

Are you seriously pushing a theory that Carver was going to write a Dean/Cass ending for the show? The same Carver who wrote "there is nothing past or present I would put in front of you"...? I have NEVER heard that one before. Rose...I thought the finale conspiracies were out there. But this..? WOW.

Pntngbrn

Courage Shelley, we're almost there.

rose mnor

Vel please don't reply to my posts you are purposely ignoring my requests to you multiple times already to just ignore my comments if you don't agree, it is such a simple request why is it so difficult for you. I also put in my opinion the reason why I think what I think. It's what I THINK, I don't pull it out of thin air, can you understand that?!! English is my second language but you, you are being deliberately obtuse here to get a rise from me, don't think I don't know that ... you're certainly the pinnacle of the "suddenly I can't read" meme And no one here is disputing the love between Sam and Dean, it is a given. Point to me where their love is negated by anyone.

Adavan

So, I've debated a bunch whether to write anything here. But, what the hell. 😏 I'm writing this before watching the reaction because I want to just be able to enjoy it and not have these thoughts on my mind as I'm watching,. So... It's no secret to anyone who's read other comments I've made, that I do not ship Destiel. But I have never, nor will I ever, claim that if you do ship them, you're wrong. Yet, I hear time and again (and again! here in this very comment section for this episode) that NOT believing Cas' declaration was romantic is just WRONG. That I'm too dumb to understand the "complexities" of the moment. But, imo, the moment is far more complex than most folks talk about. 🤷‍♀️ Personally, I do believe that the declaration was romantic on Cas' side of things. I believe that Dean "can't reciprocate" because he's straight and can't love Cas back in that same way. *Just a note here to say that the amount of hate and name-calling I've received - not here - because I believe Dean is straight is pretty ridiculous. I've been called a homophobic b*tch. I've been told that I don't understand what bisexuality is - which was particularly interesting to hear as a bisexual woman. I've had some truly hateful comments telling me that saying Dean is straight is hateful. Go figure.* But, I digress. So, I don't think Dean could love Cas back the way Cas loved him. I believe Cas knows it too which is why he says, it's "the one thing I can never have." Also, as I said, I believe there are many layers in this declaration - giving us our beautiful, complex and multi-faceted characters, as always in SPN. Because what is romantic love to an angel? Does romantic love automatically translate to sexual feelings? A lot of people within the very diverse asexual spectrum would say no. Again, I'm not saying Cas ISN'T sexually attracted to Dean, merely that that is a valid interpretation, even if you believe his declaration is a romantic one. But personally, I think it was a romantic declaration, and that Cas is "attracted" to Dean. I've put that in quotes simply because of the further ambiguity of what attraction means to an angel, and in particular Cas. For me, the fact that I believe Dean can't love Cas back that way is partly why I don't ship Destiel. It is heartbreaking. Unrequited love always is. However, Dean does LOVE Cas tremendously. Their relationship is obviously very different to Dean and Sam's. I think that while a part of Dean will always feel like a parent to Sam, that's never been the case with Cas, of course, which makes their brotherhood different. In the end, though, I still believe Dean loves Cas in a similar way to how he loves Sam - as a brother and as a brother-in-arms. They've shared so much together and outside of Sam, no one has ever done more for Dean than Cas. So, this is how I see the situation. But the number of times I've been told I'm delusional, that I'm too stupid to see the truth, that I'm homophobic, that I simply don't understand Dean as a character - I've simply lost count. But those incredibly unpleasant encounters have made me very leery about the entire Destiel ship, and honestly a bit triggered by those who say they ship them. Is this going to be one of the lovely, reasonable shippers I've chatted with, who are more than happy to honor our separate interpretations? Or is more hate and name-calling coming my way? Btw, I also know for a fact that Destiel shippers have had their fair share of vitriol tossed their way too by others in the fandom. I've seen it. My point being that the animosity that exists within this fandom about Destiel is one of the ONLY things I dislike about it. I'm so grateful to those who just agree to disagree on differing interpretations of Cas and Dean's relationship. Finally, I'll end by saying, this entire episode is very aptly named. The amount of tears I've shed over the whole episode in general, and Cas' confession in particular, is unbelievable. Everything Cas says to Dean leading up to the ILY rips my heart out with how true and perceptive, and just BEAUTIFUL they are in regards to Dean. I love how clearly Cas can see him. The moment when Dean is sobbing on the floor, with Cas' handprint once again on his shoulder - chills, heartbreak and more heartbreak. I'm off to watch the reaction now. And I'm truly sorry for what you're about to go through, Shelley. Just take comfort that we were all there too. 😞 And, honestly still kind of are there. * Grabs tissues * Let's go.

Vel

This was very emotional to read, Linda. Thank you for being so honest and eloquent. Some of what you have said here mirrors what J2 have said in their convention panels about different interpretations and different kinds of love. And we all saw the ugliness, including death threats that resulted from those discussions. I've even seen the ugliness in Shelley's discord - especially with Jared. I am sorry that you have been attacked. I have too. And yet we persist....just like Sam and Dean model for us.

Vel

I didn't start it... but Sare kindly asked that person to leave her alone.

AdoptDontShopPets

Thanks for mentioning Lisa! They even had to make a whole new wardrobe so it fit and camouflaged the baby bump. :)

rose mnor

@Karen ... thinking of what could have been ... we can cry together

ElysiaFields19

And then the fandom exploded....... As we worked our way through this final season, the overwhelming desire to shield you from your inevitable pain and shock physically hurt. Little things you would say were so ironic it had me catching my breath, shaking my head, hugging my "You changed me" pillow in a death grip. I feel like I can breathe normally because the big secret is out, but I remember how many hours I've cried over this and just want to give you the biggest hug ever. Now begins Misha's response to fandom's reactions. 💔❤️‍🩹

Adavan

Just finished the reaction. Heartbreaking as expected. But I actually really loved what you said at the end, Shelley. That you don't feel despair because Cas didn't, and about how happy he was to have given that gift to Dean. And that speech and confession were definitely a gift to him, there's no doubt there. I can't believe there are only two episodes left. What an incredible journey this has been. Loved this reaction.

Adavan

Yes, I've seen some of the hate and anger sent J2's way and it's gross too. Sorry you've had to deal with attacks too. It's awful to be that way regarding a show that is all about love and family, and accepting each other as we are.

Stormy River

I think that anyone who has followed your reactions for any length of time has been quietly waiting for this one...knowing it would break you brain and jour heart. You did not disappoint...and you are just too precious for this world. Sending you a long distance hug from Kentucky!

Purple Nurple

Well said. Social media was a dumpster fire of fighting about ships (and still is but it’s calmed down a tad - or maybe I’ve just blocked the right people lol)

Adavan

Sare - I love what you've written here! And aside from the part about Eileen and Sam (I ship those two like crazy! 😊) I agree with everything you've said. I'm sorry for the anger and insults you received here.

Purple Nurple

FYI - the fan content - I edited the singing one just in case you needed cheering up after this episode lol - and wanted to not think about the actual show!

Kit

yeah I think I remember that! I do genuinely think that Jensen’s opinion on destiel is now positive instead of negative (and there’s lots of proof) but I think he can’t properly speak on that because the wb have it in a contract agreement that he can’t speak on Dean’s sexuality to either confirm or deny

Adavan

😄 I think it is better, but there's a reason (well MANY reasons actually) why I avoid Twitter, or X, or - whatever the f*ck that a-hole is calling it today. WAY too much toxicity in the fandom there.

BunkerGirl

You and I have discussed our Destiel views on another post (maybe another reactor? I can't remember)... Anyway, thank you for your thoughtful comment. While I ship them to high heaven and always will, I also can see your viewpoint. ❤️

Adavan

Yes, it was over on Evie's reaction, I believe. Yes, you are DEFINITELY one of those lovely, reasonable shippers who are kind enough to ship and let ship that I was talking about. 😊😊

Adavan

And I'll say too, because I don't think I mentioned it in my 17 page ramble above, that I can also see the Destiel viewpoint. I for sure don't think it's crazy to ship them. I get it. I just don't. But I've never thought it was crazy. 😊

Josh Poulton

I loved that when Sam didn't get a response he looked over at Dean and without saying anything Dean knew and drove faster

Josh Poulton

Don't reach to far... it's just a really good friend love. You can try and make it out whatever you want but its not that.

Kristin Dorner

This comment is for everyone in this thread. You all need to stop, please. Shelley does not need this bullshit fighting in her comment section, ESPECIALLY when she is experiencing the last few episodes of the show for the first time. 1. If you don’t agree with someone’s comment, just scroll. If you want to voice your opinion, make your own comment. 2. If someone does post on your comment with an opposing view, either ignore it or comment back a simple “That is your interpretation and you’re welcome to it.” Please show some respect, if not for each other than at the very least for Shelley.

Kristin Dorner

See, this is the kind of respectful adult conversation that this type of media needs. I am a person (also a bisexual woman) who absolutely believes Dean could love Cas back the same way Cas loves him. However, I fully understand those with the same opinion as you. I so appreciate interactions with fans like you. Thank you for being open and willing to converse nicely.❤️

rose mnor

Yeah, I think Misha got a talking-to from the WB. He was so vocal about the romantic confession a few days after Despair aired in 2020, calling it Declaration of Love. Then he slowly backpedaled, on Sept 2021 we can see he could no longer speak as he had wanted anymore, unlike before: ... this was part of what he said, "Yes. And I will say one more thing. Which is there's certainly no interpretations of that that I'm going to say: Uh. .... It's like such a mine field. ... Uh (long pause) I don't know. I know what I- I know how I approached it. And I feel really good about it. .... And - I'll be honest with you. ... I kind of feel like that came across. Um. So. There you go. ... I gave you. I gave you the best I could." ... to this question: Fan: okay, thank you. Um. When - Cas's last scene. he says that - he says that there was something he knows that he wanted um, something he wanted but he knows he can't have. and I kind of felt like... he knows he has Dean's friendship. He knows that they're family and he knows that he's forgiven. So I was wondering what your interpretation - of what Cas's ultimate - what he wants that he can't have. This was CE Panel Denvercon 2021, Misha with Alex, where a CE volunteer was caught on camera trying to censor a fan's question about the confession. Via link at 11.00 min mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj9LkmiNh-4

Michelle Denny

Haven’t watched the reaction yet, but just wanted to say that this is the episode that made me really feel like the show was coming to an end. After the confession scene I could not stop crying and am tearing up as I write this now. After 15 years of going through highs and lows with this fandom and show it was really ending and Misha doing such a beautiful job acting in that scene really made me feel how special this ride truly was., and I just couldn’t stop thinking how I wasn’t going to be following the boys through anymore adventures once the final episodes were done. And then to have to wait so long for those final two episodes. Well I am going to watch your reaction and cry right along with you.

Kristin Dorner

I just want to put out there something I don’t see talked about very much. A lot of people will use Jensen’s opinion and interpretations as the only valid ones for Dean (and the same for Misha about Cas). However, the actors had a very different SPN experience than the fans did. Yes they got to experience all the BTS stuff with the scripts and acting and directing, but most if not all of them have not watched the finished product of Supernatural. Jensen for example has admitted multiple times that he hasn’t watched the full show, only certain special episodes and the ones he’s directed himself of course. Now I’m not saying that their interpretations are invalid at all. They are no more or less valid than anyone else’s, fans included. What I’m saying is that their interpretations are based on their experiences, which does not include seeing the final product. When filming, they don’t do things chronologically, not the episodes nor the scenes within a specific episode. They don’t get to hear the music cues or see the Final Cut of the edited episode (if they’re not watching it when it airs). Anyone who has studied or researched filmmaking knows that everything within an episode communicates intentions and sets the emotional tone. Lighting, costumes, set design, music, editing, EVERYTHING. So you cannot point to things that any of the actors who haven’t watched the show have commented during panels as some kind of “gotcha” or as proof that someone else’s interpretation isn’t valid. Because they experienced a different Supernatural than we did. We got to see all the Jacting Joices, we got to see all the cuts to very specific people, we got to see all the parallels. How you choose to interpret those things is up to you. But your interpretations are not smarter or more correct or more valid than anyone else’s. So if you don’t agree with someone else’s interpretation of this episode or the show as a whole, that’s FINE. EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion as everyone comes into this show with different viewpoints and life experiences, but NO ONE’S interpretation is any more valid than anyone else’s. Not Jensen, not Jared, not Misha, not even Kripke himself. So please, let’s all just enjoy this and not be at each other’s throats. This is supposed to be fun, remember?!

Adavan

Thank you too! As I said, it's really wonderful to meet and talk with kind people, even when we disagree about something. There's absolutely no need for snarky-ness or rudeness on either side. Thanks so much for reading my rambling and taking the time to comment back. ❤️

Adavan

Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that moment - it's so real and telling about Sam and Dean's relationship. I love it. ❤️

Amye Sabin

There's not much else I could add. I've not seen your reaction yet, but the shipper in me has been waiting for this episode and dreading it at the same time. I'll watch it later, but probably not have anything to add. I hope you had tissues with you, tho.

Jenn

Reading some of the comments and anyway, that sure was a gay love confession written by a gay writer and performed by the actor as a gay character. Hope that clears all that up.

Klaara

Hell yeah cheers to that!

Jay

Shelley understood that, at least! I loved her reactions.

SKK

I'm glad your internal debate went the way it did and for all the respectful exchanges that followed. 💕

SKK

I'm always afraid to step on landmines bc I really don’t know what happened in the fandom (and, I think, around this topic, I don’t want to), but I'll just say this: I had to watch Cas's declaration a few times too. I thought it was beautiful and cathartic. I’d thought Cas had romantic feelings towards Dean for a long while, and I took the declaration that way. (Others can see it differently, and more power to them. I have no dog in this fight.) I’m a sucker for unrequited love, if it is that (again, no dog in this fight), too, so it was further heartrending for me on that level… I was a mess… but I was so, so glad Cas was free to say his piece and to let himself feel true happiness. 💕

AdoptDontShopPets

I will just say that regardless of how one might feel about Castiel’s confession, it was a wild night to be on social media. Tumblr exploded and went offline for a bit from the overload. On Twitter, Destiel trended above the US Presidential election, where we were still anxiously watching vote tallies in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and Pennsylvania from the election two days earlier. The trending was a mix of positive and negative impressions, so it was a wild time. I won’t go into more details as it may be in the fan content you’ll see after the finale. Just suffice to say it’s an event I will never forget. I include it in my list of “do you remember where you were when x happened.”

Hasnaa

Gotta preface this by saying that I had to block two people on Patreon so that I wouldn't have to suffer reading their inevitable passive agressive response to this episode or my comments on it, so they won't see this, otherwise I wouldn't have felt safe expressing my feelings in your comments anymore, I strongly suggest others to do the same if they have to, some people are just toxic and life is too short to spend on things you don't enjoy. I wish I could tell you that all the people who mocked you in the comments for shipping destiel or have been passive agressive about it and making you feel less and less safe to talk about it, were just making sure you would be shocked this episode and trying not to spoil the pleasant surprise for you, truly wish I could say this but no that's just how some people are and have been for so long that not even a kiss would've changed anything for them. Not gonna lie kinda want to have the words "human disorder incarnate" tattooed on me, speaking of tattoos now I can finally share my SPN tattoo idea for you, it's an angel blade with a rainbow feather and the word "for love" I saw it on someone's arm and it would match perfectly with your stake buffy tattoo, I will try to find a pic of it and send it to you. Not cas protecting dean's heart from Billie only to break it minutes later 😢. You're not the only one who thought they were gonna kiss when cas grabbed dean's shoulder! Wish we at least had a goodbye kiss or even a hug. Yes, they gave cas the angel curse from buffy, when angel had his moment of true happiness (aka his first time with buffy) is when we lose him, you compared dean and buffy a lot but this is by far the most glaring parallel. Nevermind CAS just reliving his worst nightmares over and over forever in the empty, buckleming I just wanna talk!! They really had to give us that stupid destiny child episode and have ruby tell us the empty was a fate worse than hell, a place where angels and demons relive their worst nightmares over and over knowing fully that cas would end up there!! Why!!!! Why retcon the empty from being a peaceful place to being a torturous place knowing cas would end up there, what was the reason?!! Shelley nothing you'll read in the comments can describe even a fraction of what it was like being in the fandom on the night this episode aired, it's just one of those "you had to be there" moments, I tried to convey some of the madness to you in future fan content video but you just had to be there, when I first watched this episode I cried like a baby and felt numb, I also felt so hyped for 2 weeks after it and couldn't eat or sleep for 2 days after it, it was like being on an acid trip for 2 weeks, I am not even being hyperbolic, my family was really concerned about me, it fucked me up and no we never recovered, we are changed forever, there's no moving on, there's just accepting your fate and surrendering to being an insane person for the rest of your life, as you said this episode had a glaring almost blinding parallel/theme of losing romantic partners, charlie losing Stevie (her girlfriend), Sam losing Eileen (his girlfriend), dean losing cas (his ........), The handprint and dean's sobs kill me everytime, I truly get it, being shocked and not knowing if it's real, it's the result of years of being gaslighted by the show and other fans, being called delusional for seeing what the writers obviously putting makes you question your own sanity, yes the shock is not that cas is in love with dean, that was always so obvious, the shock is that the show finally allowed him to speak it (on the condition of him dying right after of course because God forbid dean can have a minute to process and respond), but at least cas let it out after all these years of loving dean in silence, none of this would've been possible if diverse writers hadn't joined the writing room for this show, people like Robert berens, Meredith glynn, Steve yocky etc.. But also it would never have happened if it weren't for misha's support and input all of those years, what an outstanding performance by Misha, CAS never felt more alive!! Rewatching this show with the knowledge that cas was canonically in love with dean this whole time changes everything and also changes nothing because he always behaved how someone who's in love would, and exactly cas saying what he wants he can't have makes me wanna hug him and punch him in the face at the same time coz how do you know, cas? You never fucking asked, I 💯 believe dean has been in love with cas for years believing that he too can't have what he wants, either because he thought cas can't love him the same way coz he's an angel or because he believed he can never have normalcy and romantic love since he tried before and it never worked, or because he believed he doesn't deserve it and that he's unlovable and that no way a beautiful creature such as CAS could possibly love him like that, because he sees himself as broken goods and that people are better off away from him or more realistically a combination of all those reasons, the same reason why Sam was a bit hesitant to act on his feelings with Eileen but multiplied by a 💯, I hate seeing my favorite characters lose their loved ones here, as I said before destiel and saileen have been paralleled throughout this season but it's especially clear in this episode, give my boys their loves, give them their happy ending! Many have said this already but it bears repeating, destiel trended number 1 world wide for hours surpassing the most important US presidential election of Biden vs trump, it was insane, the fandom felt so alive, not without its infighting of course, lots of name calling and rudeness from all sides, lots of people using Jensen's words against others as usual but turned up to a 💯, it was like that gif of the person walking in on a room that's on fire, you only get to see a snippet of it in your comments but twitter is way worse, I can only speak from my experience though as I see others have spoken of theirs, of course you got hit by the people who were still calling us delusional, calling cas's declaration of love platonic somehow (they still do to this day but alas) and accusing us of ruining the show and of making it "about something that it's not" so we had to navigate that, like we always had to but it was turned up to a 💯, secondly we had to deal with people saying dean was somehow holding back a slur, we even had to deal with antis @ting the writer (bobo berens) directly on twitter demanding an explanation for this episode which he replied to with one iconic word "cope" 🤷🏻‍♀️, that was iconic, we also had to endure Ruthie (literally the sweetest person on the planet) getting bullied into deleting a destiel supportive tweet she posted, she was harassed into deleting it, lots of pro destiel writers "came out" (pun intended) that day (bobo berens, Meredith glynn, Megan Fitzgerald, etc...) The true heroes, Jensen even watched a couple of fan reactions to this episode and so did Misha, so many articles written, Tumblr came back from the dead like a zombie being resurrected, and to know that this has been the writers plan for a year!!!! And maybe even secretly longer since the empty deal plot started last year puts everything we witnessed between dean and cas this season into perspective. I can't wait for you to see all the fan content and to rewatch the show.

AdoptDontShopPets

Oh yes, that meme of walking into the room on fire in chaos…perfect for the fandom. Also, “cope” was so great. 🤣

BexFangirl

As a european who had really not had much contact with the spn fandom before that day, even I remember it as absolute insanity and I was a bystander/onlooker in all the ways basically. That truly shows how big of a thing it was.

BexFangirl

This episode also is the reason for a lot of people starting the show. The post confession scene spn crowd (obviously especially in the destiel community). Quite a couple of my tumblr mutuals came into the show because of and right after the episode. Some tried to get as many episodes watched as possible before the next ep came out etc etc. I personally started on the one year anniversary of this episode, since I thought it had a nice touch after observing the fandom for a year XD

Susan Stork

I love this episode and the next two as well. I am not a destiel shipper, and have no issues with those who are; but I do see Cas' declaration of love to Dean as romantic. But more than that, it was just a beautiful scene, beautifully acted and written. Misha did an incredible job and I will be forever grateful for having been able to watch him play Castiel. He was brilliant and will always be my second favorite character behind Dean. oh and RIP, Matthew Perry😢

Hasnaa

I also wanna add that I still don't know how you missed destiel going canon being on Tumblr you either have all of supernatural keywords blocked (but even then you couldn't escape it) or you just haven't been on Tumblr for years which is more likely

Hasnaa

Here goes CAS again, going off books, ruining Chuck's plans in order to save dean, the ultimate rebel, CAS is such a fascinating character even on a meta level because he defied his creators, he was supposed to only last for 3 episodes but he stayed for 12 years, the writers tried to kill him off permanently multiple times but he refused to stay dead and demanded for his love story to be told, I love that crack in his chassis where loves comes out pouring, CAS has always been a relatable character to the queer community and a queer coded character way before this episode, he came from the strictest religious family (literally heaven) and he rebelled against them for his love, he even was sent to conversion therapy to erase dean's love out of him, tourtured by Naomi in order to "fix him", his first act as godstiel was to kill a homophobic priest who spread hatred against the LGBTQ community and declared that he's indifferent to sexual orientation 😍 he will always be my all time favorite character in media 🏳️‍🌈. What other show has a 12 year slow burn queer romance?! SPN was really one of a kind that's why it will always have me in a chokehold , especially now with the age of streaming and short series this will never happen again. I also wanna address something that people seem to use to invalidate CAS's feelings for dean as romantic or sexual in nature, which is the fact that he's an angel, I don't get that at all, since we had the angel Gabriel star in porn, we had the angel Baltazar who had menage a trois, we had lucifer have sex with Kelly, we had the whole Hannah catching feelings for cas arc, we had gadreel who had an angel boyfriend, we had the whole lily sunder's episode about human/angel relationships and nephilims, we literally have nephilims who are a living proof that human/angel relationships has existed since the beginning of time, literally the beginning of time, since Adam and seraphina, dean literally had sex with an angel before (Anna), but CAS declares his love for dean and all of a sudden people be acting like angels are these mysteries creatures who never showed human emotions, so sus tbh, eye roll, definitely not bias.

Adavan

Well said. 😊

Adavan

Agreed completely! Misha did an amazing job! And yes, RIP Matthew Perry. 😞

Adavan

Yes - I always appreciate that kind of conversation. ❤️

Hasnaa

Well, Billie did say to cas there will be cosmic consequences for him killing her and breaking her deal with dean back in 12x09, she wasn't kidding. I love how this show is able to pull things up from years of lore. I guess jack was put together in the empty after he exploded because the empty is the resting place/afterlife for angels, demons and by extension nephilims so where do angels go if they die in the empty? They just reappear, it's like when CAS asked in purgatory where do monsters go when they die in purgatory, I believe they just reappear which is why I will never believe that Benny is dead, if there's no body he's not dead, I don't care what a wanna be leviathan said to dean

Duck

Question for you Hasnaa since I know you do a lot of the fan content/behind the scenes stuff: are you planning to include anything about (I ran this next part through the rot13 cipher) Jneare Oebguref gelvat gb cerffher Zvfun vagb cergraqvat gb or ovfrkhny? Because that is maybe the wildest thing that came out of all this and I would love to see Shelley's reaction to that information.

rose mnor

Hi Shelley, don't know whether you will read this but if you do, a bit of clarification on the comments above about the responses of Jared and Jensen (since OP had expressed her wish not to be replied to anymore) - "Jared and Jensen have stated that this declaration does not have to be interpreted as romantic, and Jensen make some points that I think are relevant about the nature of angels. They are the leads of the show and know the overall theme is about platonic love, so they both have the right to comment." - the above from my understanding was via the Denvercon 2021 panel and is not to be confused with the Vancon 2021 panel, as OP had further clarified the latter separately. So, basically, referring to the Denvercon 2021 panel only and assuming I am at the right panel here (within the scope of OP's stated validation on J&J's veracity and understanding of the show with regards to the question), for me, Jared's response sounds like this - - Cas/angels are junkless - hence he's choosing to ignore Gabriel, Lucifer and Balthazar for male angels, and Anna and Seraphina for female angels, to name a few off on the top of my head - Not what the show is about - Having said that, hey, love is love, and love who you wanna while Jensen's sounds like this - - angels' love is so ... cannot be defined by humans - thus ignoring Akobel who loved and protected Lily Sunder, and Seraphina from episode Unity, who has loved Adam for centuries from the last episode. Seraphina and Adam cannot stop from climbing on top of each other. I took it that Jensen meant Dean when faced with the couple mooching on the counter and whatnot in Unity and their terms of endearment were just words, Dean doesn't comprehend the feelings that they have for each other and what those ancient beings were doing to each other. *roll my eyes* Yeah ... to justify their takeaways of the non-romanticism of Cas' love for Dean. *sigh* Jensen has grown so much since then, his answers are much more refined nowadays, and not hesitant to include from his perspective, Dean's affection for Cas in his answers imo, even if he stresses that we view art as how we wish and not to rely on the talents to guide us on how to read art, and I appreciate his growth and support nonetheless ... Oh yeah and the punch line was: THE QUESTION is to Jensen about Dean “... with Castiel, when did you know that the way he loved Dean was in a romantic, like, deep love, like when in the series did you, because we always kinda debate over, see this is when we - they're kinda dropping hints." ... LOL ... the question asker already viewed Cas' love as romantic & she was not up for debating it, and she's not asking their views on that particular love. via video link at 30 min mark. It was the last question. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFzXsFbPPAc&t=1771s via transcript tumblr if you don't wanna watch video https://www.tumblr.com/starsovermyhead/665350248050343936/alwaysanoriginal-alwaysanoriginal via Bob Wess's video if you want to watch his delightful and informative reaction to that question and how problematic that answers were, a reaction from an actual bisexual man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA3WcMZVCzM&t=21s

rose mnor

@Hasnaa thanks for all those details, it should be bear repeating that we won't be able to experience all those moments again, I don't think ... those 12 years slow burn love, no other TV show could emulate what our show had done, the good and the bad.

rose mnor

Yeah, all those angels, I also put in my additional post, debunking the Cas is junkless remark and angels' love is hard to define by humans, by certain talents.

rose mnor

Andrew Dabb did say "... the cosmic consequences are starting to unfold," during SDCC 2017 at the end of S12 when Cas died and he just left it at that. So he basically was playing the long game. We thought Cas's dying was the consequence, which showed how little we know. via link source at the 6.30 min mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biuv6DHgFsg

Luis Nov

Serious question, what do you think he meant by “the one thing I want is something I know I cant have”?

rose mnor

... and took your advice about blocking, good to know, wasn't aware that we could do that here ...

rose mnor

@Duck I deciphered your rot13, haha yeah agreed that one was wild ... but I think Shelley knew about it already, if I am not mistaken RGN: fbeel V zvfernq - Furyyrl xarj nobhg gur ovfrkhny guvat ohg jurgure fur xarj nobhg gung JO rkrp gung bar V'z abg fher.

Hasnaa

@duck she does now about it, I refer you to her new Jersey 2023 part 1 video where she learn and react to that info

Hasnaa

@rose I literally mentioned the blocking people part especially for you coz I felt like you wanted to do that to someone but didn't know that you can lol, I blocked the same someone

Amye Sabin

Misha always wanted for Cas to sacrifice himself for Dean. This was the most beautiful way of doing so. Humans have no control over the Empty, even getting there. Remember the Empty kicked Cas out in S13 because he was annoying the Shadow. Nobody saved Cas from the Empty. It seems like Chuck has taken everyone. Every single person in the world. That's cause for despair. Losing Stevie, Eileen, Cas - like you said significant others - that's despair. Jack feels lost, he's in despair. BTW Jack DOESN'T have his powers. We don't know what the killing of the plant means. Is he the knew Death? Does he have some kind of killing capabilities? But his normal powers were lost when he exploded.

Adavan

Yes! Exactly this. I have no problem with anyone shipping whomever they choose - that's part of the fun of fandom. But unfortunately I've been on the receiving end of a lot of proselytizing about Destiel and it's not fun. Nor would it be fun, I imagine, to have people stomp all over your enjoyment of your ship just because they don't see it the same way. We just need to let each other enjoy the show, and see the show for what it means to us. ❤️

Klaara

This episode is the best and the worst thing that has ever happened to me. The confession scene changed me as a person. That scene made us Destiel shippers collectively experience lovesickness for like a week. Many people said they couldn’t eat or sleep and were only thinking about Destiel. We were basically high on love lol. It’s so insane that an old show like Supernatural was able to do this scene. Misha has said that he was genuinely surprised that they were able to do it. I think he also said at some point that they were worried that the scene would end up being cut so they definitely had to fight to get that scene into the show.

Hasnaa

Humans don't have power over the empty but we saw nick open up a portal to the empty using jack's blood in order to resurrect lucifer so it is possible

Jay

aaah, I too didn't know you could block people and have now taken advantage of it - thank you so much!

Duck

Ah ok thanks!!! I must've missed that one. :)

Alex Jo

DESPAIR is what I'm feeling this fine afternoon. Happy 5th y'all.

BunkerGirl

How in the world did I miss this comment of yours before. I LOVE everything you said here and would REALLY LOVE to hear the response of those trying to claim that BS to seeing it perfectly laid out to where it is plain that argument makes ZERO sense. <3

BunkerGirl

Ohhhhhh I just read a fan fic that adds a bit to some earlier episodes and in it, it includes Cas and Dean in purgatory. You would like it I think

Hasnaa

🥰😘

Hasnaa

Yeah absolutely, share it in the discord if you can find it, I love purgatory fics

BexFangirl

Had to rewatch this for the anniversary of this episode today. =D