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Supernatural - 15x20 "Carry On" Full Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2023-11-05 07:10:25
Imported:
2026-06
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Carry On - Full Version.mp4

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Comments

Luis Nov

First of all, congrats on finishing the show, with some ups and downs but you made it, and Im glad I was able to join your journey at some point, truly and experience 🫶🏻

NSTG_Eddie

Yes the Fandom was pissed over Deans Ending as was Jensen😭

rose mnor

Yeah, that happened ... I didn't like it either, Shelley. It was trash. I was so disappointed and was so despondent after this finale aired. For about a week, I teared up at certain moments and felt so numb, and quiet. I cried so hard after this episode aired, and it was not a sad-feeling-from-the outcome-of-the-story kinda sad, like when Cas died, those feelings were earned ... this, this was a frustrated and angry cry ... *sigh* I don't have much to write right now, maybe later ... Thanks so much for this show's reaction series, Shelley, I am so happy to have joined your channel, and I hope to rejoin you again when you start your re-watch next year. ETA: Full disclosure, I didn't fully watch your reaction here - only the intro, the middle when Dean died to see your reaction only (with my close caption box covering the scene), and your episode analysis portion. I haven't been able to watch Carry On since it aired, and am not going to do so now.

Purple Nurple

I think I'm too drunk/hungover to watch this now... but I feel like I have to watch it now...

NSTG_Eddie

Unfortunately due to Covid a lot of returns were not able to be done 😭

NSTG_Eddie

The lady was believed to be a hologram

Shona

😲 I fell behind in your reactions because I like to binge. I am currently on "the gambler" I am looking forward and not looking forward to completing this with you.

Laurel

Yeah this ending was garbage lol. I hadn't even watched Supernatural in years but looked up the ending out of curiosity and it was such a shock. THAT'S how they decide to end their show? By killing Dean a) at all, b) so young and c) in such a ridiculous way? Such bullshit. But now you've got all the context so you can go find some fix-it fic :)

Luis Nov

Isnt it crazy how the entire episode was they working on the bunker and Dean petting Miracle?

NSTG_Eddie

I agree Shelley Deans death was very rushed and bitter but if you ever wanna find out the original plan for the finale well basically everyone was gonna be there but yes agreed Covid was no excuse but Kansas was supposed to play Carry on at the roadhouse with everybody again Covid even August 2020 was no excuse we know the precautions to take so yes Shelley I agree only part for me that I’m content with is that they were together with everybody in absence the Dean Death was stupid and a bummer being I’m a big Dean Fan myself so it’s not your Dean Fanning we are were pissed over it but yes at the end of the day the journey which I was on the whole 15 years Live week to week was worth it and Thank You Shelley for the Journey I joined around the end of Season 1 I Believe so was a great Journey and I plan on rewatching your reactions over and over again until the end!🫶🏻

NSTG_Eddie

One time through indeed is not enough to gasp 100% of it So I look forward to it!🫶🏻

Gigi

I definitely sobbed watching this episode, I didn't hate it but i was left so incredibly disappointed. The way Dean died, Sam's party city wig, no Cas or Jack, no mention of Eileen just to name a few. Also even with covid restrictions they risked having Jim on set but not Misha!?!? It's great seeing Bobby again but that 100% should've been Cas welcoming Dean to heaven instead.

Kim Rigg

You handled that much better than I did! I don't hate the final but i certainly do not like it and it is not a episode that I am excited to rewatch. For 15 seasons Dean has been telling us that his life is the hunt and he will die on the job, so I knew the current writing team would go for the obvious (perhaps lazy) choice! I wanted subversion which in my view would have been much more satisfying. Saying that this episode was underwhelming for me, not from the performance point of view(which broke me) but from the storytelling point of view and truthfully even without the COVID restrictions I do not think they would have made me love this episode. The main points on this episode for me are: 1) In my mind episode 20 happened straight after 19, so Dean did not enjoy any time without God pushing the buttons. 2) I can accept that Dean died but the way he died was pathetic and yes I understand the removal of plot armour but they could have made it stronger more heroic death. 3) There is no way that other people (Kim, Garth, etc) would not have been at Dean's funeral. I know Covid would have been a factor but it took me out of the story because I did not believe it. 4) Not seeing Sam wife was stupid and I have not seen a argument yet that justifies it. 5) Not seeing more characters in Heaven was a big miss. To sum up I felt underwhelmed with the end. I enjoyed the first ten minutes, I enjoyed seeing our Bobby, I enjoyed the moment on the bridge and lastly I enjoyed the performance but I wanted more.

Alina Ivinson

The outfits they wore in the end were the same ones they wore in the pilot 😭

Kim Rigg

Thanks for all your hard work...I have been on this journey with you from the beginning and it has been quite a ride. Love your reactions and how open and honest you are. Your reaction helped me immensely through COVID and I am so sad this chapter has finished. Carry On!

BunkerGirl

First, I've loved going on this journey with you.🙂 Now, on to the episode..... ARGH!! This ending pissed me off. In the script it says this was I think 6 months after the last episode took place, but still. I don't think the episode really shows us that. It seems very sudden. Esp with the conversation they had at the pie festival. And Dean dying on a random hunt impaled on a freaking rebar?? He deserved so much more. It was originally written that he was down cradled in Sam's arms, but Jensen put his foot down and said if Dean has to go out like this, he's going out standing. I hate that we didn't get to see more people in heaven ..specifically Cas and Jack. I would have even been okay if they didn't want to bring Misha in due to COVID, if we just heard him say "Hello Dean" and we saw Dean turn and smile at him, without ever even showing Cas . Or use an old shot of Cas from the editing floor with him standing in the distance watching and smiling when Dean gets to heaven. I loved seeing Bobby, but I mean, they brought some random vampire back from s1, but not Cas? Ugh.😡 They've said they purposely left who Sam married ambiguous (lame IMHO.) There are tons of Easter eggs in this episode calling back to the pilot. The obvious being in Dean's dying speech, but also Babys original license plate in heaven, and the outfits the boys wear at the end on the bridge are almost identical to their pilot. I get that it started with the boys and they wanted to end it with the boys, but still.🙁 I've heard since Canada had such strict COVID restrictions they would have to pay for the actors to stay there 3 weeks minimum in quarantine and couldn't afford to do that. But the only script difference would have been they planned to have tons of characters at the Roadhouse in heaven with Kansas playing. COVID sucks. 😡 And that God awful wig of Sam's wtf?? Everybody laughed at it. It was sooo bad, it took us out of what should have been a touching scene. I also understand that if Sam was ever going to have a semblance of that normal life he always wanted, Dean had to die. Because I don't think Dean would ever stop hunting, it's who he is. But it doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't know if Sam totally got out of the game, we at least know he told his son about what's out there since his son had an anti possession tattoo. Jensen hated his death at least at first ..he told how he actually called Kripke and sent him the script and when Kripke read it he told Jensen he liked it and to try to look at it from a different perspective. But I loved the idea Jensen talked about at a con for what he would have loved for the shows ending--where he would be at a crossroads and hand Baby's keys off to a younger hunter pair of hunters, then Dean would get on a motorcycle and take off into the sunset. I think the writers were too set on the line 'there'll be peace when you are done' and felt they had to end with them in heaven. I can't wait to rewatch with you! And ohh .....💙💚 There are TONS of truly well written fan fictions out there where Cas and Dean get the ending they deserve. Plus now you can watch tons of amazing fan edits on YT. I highly recommend angeldove edits on there...they will squeeze your heartstrings to the limit!💙💚

Karen Gauck

I'm sure you'll hear all about the plans pre-COVID, but you have to remember this was shot in September of 2020. They were the first WB show to go back there were a lot of strick rules in place and most importantly Canada still had a 2 week quarantine. It would've been a lot to ask and honestly extremely expensive to pay for everyone to do that so Jim Beaver was the one.

Karen Gauck

Dean girl that's in camp I like the finale. I went into the season. Assuming everyone was fair game for death and I went into the finale trying not to have any expectations. I have a few quibbles. There are a few things they could've done to help. My headcanon is that quite a bit of time had passed. I think the opening shows that some time has passed. They have a routine now that they are free. They could've done a few more things to show that passage of time or straight up slated it. I also don't understand blurry wife. What was the point of Sam and Eileen all season if she wasn't Endgame? I disagree that Dean didn't have to die for Sam to have a normal life. I don't think either one would've left the other. The show also doesn't state if Sam fully left the life. His son dies have an anti-posession tattoo, but that would be smart regardless.

Stephanie

This finale was complete bs. It’s been 3 years and this is the first time I’ve rewatched this episode, even though I rewatched the series since. Dean deserves better and a lot of people hated this ending to so you’re not alone. To answer some of your questions the paper on Dean’s desk was a job application. And no unfortunately Sam didn’t marry Eileen, he married what the fandom has dubbed “blurry wife”. As for Cas, it really pisses me off he wasn’t there. They said Misha couldn’t be there bc of Covid, yet they used Cas to promote the finale, brought back Jenny the vampire who no one asked for, had a crowded pie festival scene and had the whole crew at the end on the bridge, maskless! As for is Cas in heaven, I like to believe he is and Jack got him out of the empty but a lot of people including Cas/Destiel fan says he’s not. To go back to Dean’s death scene, I hate the excuse that Sam couldn’t call an ambulance bc realistically it wouldn’t make it time. The show is called Supernatural! They literally met Scooby Doo! Now you wanna be realistic?! And normally I love when stories come full circle but this ending especially Dean’s long long loooong death scene just erased the found family and I hate that. I really hated this ending and I hope they (everyone) comes back for a sequel miniseries, just 8 or 10 episodes to get the bad taste of this episode out of our mouths. Jensen and Misha keep mentioning the sequel at cons so it seems pretty likely it’ll happen eventually since Jensen will never be done with Dean

Amye Sabin

I have trouble sleeping, and tonight/this morning I'm so glad that's the case. I hope you're doing okay. The ending may not have been what you wanted, but I hope you enjoyed the journey. I wish I could watch it again for the first time, not knowing everything to come. I have a lot to say, so please bear with me. The show began with the brothers and the only way to end it is with the brothers. All the producers were adamant about that. You have to get over the mindset of Jack & Cas appearing. They were not part of the original story, and they (esp Jack) should not be a focus of the Finale. Originally Jensen had a problem with the ending, but after talking to Kripke he realized this is how the story had to end. If you think back on it, Dean always knew and stated several times that he would die on a hunt. And saving two young brothers? The perfect ending for him - at least in the mortal world. Dean would never stop hunting and Sam wouldn't leave Dean alone hunting. "They'll be peace when you are done." Personally I liked the Finale for the most part. I would've changed Sam's wig in that one scene, eliminated the terrible Neoni version of 'Carry On'; it's a disgrace that was the last version heard. And I would've liked to seen more of Sam's life: who did he marry? did he keep hunting? did he tell Dean Jr? Showing Dean in Heaven right after dying lessens the impact. I would've had him & Bobby meet Sam at the end. Oh, the doggie is Miracle. That's what Dean named him last episode. There is an adorable missing scene with Dean being worried about kenneling Miracle while they're away. And Jennie is from the 1st season, the first vampire episode - Dead Man's Blood. And odd choice to bring back, but ok. .You have to take COVID into context for this episode. The masks (due to the tight fight sequence), the inability to have guest stars (they would have to quarantine for two weeks just for a cameo. Too expense, plus there were constictions on how many could be on a closed set at the time.) Originally there were to be many guest friends to greet Sam at the Heavenly Roadhouse, including the band Kansas. Jack did create Paradise, just not on Earth. He tore down Heaven's walls. And remember Jack said he would be hands off. if he makes an exception to his fathers, where does it stop? The outfits at the end are basically what they wore in the Pilot. Jared said that there was supposedly a 5-year time jump between last episode and this. However, with the way Sam talked about Jack and Cas at the beginning - that loss was still fresh. So in my mind, there was less than a year. And Jared said this is his favorite episode. He loves it, Jensen not as much.

Amye Sabin

No, the fandom wasn't. SOME were. And Jensen has repeatedly said over and over that once he got over his initial disappointment, he realized it was the way it had to end.

Vel

I really didn't have any expectations when this aired. But I screamed when Dean was impaled on the rebar and sobbed my way through the rest. By the time it was finished, decided I liked it. And now, after time has passed and I've listened to the different perspectives from the cast and crew, I love most of it (the vampire story was meh...and Jenny was unnecessary) I'm sure others will chime in with all the easter eggs that J2 came up with and changes in the script/blocking that they were allowed to have control of, so I won't add to that. But one of the highlights for me was using the "bloodlust" theme when Dean was talking to baby. It made me very nostalgic for all the bm moments from the first few seasons. I understand that some people were upset by Dean's death, but from a narrative perspective, it wasn't a shock for me. Dabb was the one who wrote "Trial and Error" where Dean gave Sam the speech about his "perfect ending" being Sam having a wife and kids and a life outside of hunting. So for him to bookend that with this made sense, regardless of how I feel about it. He was the co-showrunner, after all. As an aside, another reactor said, "welp, that's how this show is going to end" when they saw that scene...lol. I'll have to remind them when that time comes. There was also S10 when Sam had that beautiful heart to heart with Charlie where he admitted that as long as he was with Dean, he would hunt because that was his life and he loved it. There are other moments too - but those two stand out and really echo when I sit back and think about WHY they chose this route. For all the different readings and interpretations we have, the show itself never lied to us when it comes down to it. It had a formula and stuck to it. You could even see it play out in the different acts of every season. For that reason, I enjoyed the show for what it was...not what I wanted it or expected it to be. For me, that was the joy of watching the entire series the second, third and fourth time around.

NSTG_Eddie

I had not heard he came around to it thanks for letting me know!🫶🏻👍🏻

Purple Nurple

This finale split the fandom in terms of who thought it was good ending vs bad ending. I personally thought it was a decent ending. Was it happy? No, but a bit yes with the end scene. I went in expecting something worse, I knew they weren't going to make it out of this show alive, so I expected something So I think that's why I don't mind it as much as others. The wig - that was hilarious - another covid casualty - not being able to have the time to get it right... Jared talks about it at JIB which you'll see. Vampires took Dean out - yep, they don't have plot armour any more. Between ep 19 and 20 we don't know how much time passed. In my head years passed. I think the script said 6 months, but I think that's too short. Lots of things are left open to interpretation - Sam's wife, the length of time that passed, whether Sam stayed in the life at all.etc

NSTG_Eddie

To be fair Amye even being a Dean Guy and Disliking his death I was Content with the ending I didn’t hate it or think it was Trash

Stephanie

Oh a few more things this episode took place about 5-6 months after they defeated Chuck. That's all the free will Dean got. Also Jensen hated Dean dying and had to be talked into it. He eventually accepted it but when you watch more recent post series panels you'll see he definitely still has problems with it and will take shots at it.

Susan Stork

I am 100% a Dean girl. I happen to really like this finale. Other than Sam's wig😂 I have no problem with it. Great seeing Bobby again. I don't know if it's assumed that Sam stopped hunting, he still could have been. It's been a joy watching this show with you. Can't wait for the re-watch. Would I have liked to have seen all the characters from the past 15 years in the episode, yes. But, I do understand the covid restrictions. And also, I feel worse for the actors that they couldn't get the ending they deserved after all the time they spent with each other. So, I don't feel sorry for me, but for them.

Purple Nurple

I visited the heaven bridge about 8 weeks ago... it was amazing and quite emotional. Photos will be in the discord and if I can change my profile picture I'll do it. I also made a 'fix' to the ending with my funko pops. I'll pop it in a video somewhere...

Amye Sabin

He's mentioned it in several Cons. He said it had to sit with him, and he talked to Kripke. After Kripke thought about it a few days, he called Jensen back and explained why he (Kripke) thought it was the right ending and that Jensen was too close to the story to be objective. Jensen said that helped him to come around. ETA He doesn't like the bit about Dean driving around Heaven doing nothing, though.

Karen Gauck

The 6 months was in a version of the script, not on screen. Even the boys have chosen 5 years as the amount of time that passed.

Sare

Amye Sabin

I would've rather seen more of Sam's life than Dean driving around, or even meeting Bobby right away. That lessened the impact of Dean's death to me. I don't cry watching it anymore, but everytime Detective Douche is killed by Chuck, I sob my eyes out.

Amye Sabin

I know they've said that Karen, but watch Sam's face again when he's talking about missing Jack & Cas....it's obviously a fresh loss, still.

Karen Gauck

One of the main things I would've changed was to not tie in the pie festival with the case. They obviously wanted a mention of Cas and Jack in the finale so let them have that and the one festival fun, back to the bunker for an unknown period of time and then the hunt. Allow time to have obviously passed.

BunkerGirl

Because people don't agree with your view of the finale you huff off?? We ALL have every right to share how we feel about what happened in this episode. That's the whole point of these kind of forums. Theyre our opinions, so of course they are biased. We all bring something different to what we see in the show. Bye.

Kim Rigg

I think all the comments are mixed which is a true fandom reaction to this episode. I personally think the majority did not love or hate the end they just wanting something more and I have seen numerous reactors reflect on this exact point. Glad you loved it though.

Amye Sabin

No, I just don't like reading the hate and spewing. It makes me want to defend it over & over, and that's tiring.

Karen Gauck

I disagree. It 100% had to be Bobby. He's the only character other than Sam & Dean that was in all 15 seasons. He was practically a father to them. If there could only be one, it should be Bobby.

Kim Rigg

You do not need to defend how you feel about the episode just like no one else does. People are not spewing they are expressing how they feel.

Gigi

Dean and Cas have no closure, Cas confessed then died and that was that. It also makes sense for an angel to welcome a soul to heaven so having Dean's best friend and third lead of the show welcome him makes more sense to me sorry.

BunkerGirl

But just because the boys say they like to think it was 5 years or so doesn't make it true, OR how it was written. The script says 6 months. I don't think Sam and Dean would have been having that conversation at the pie festival if it was 5 or 6 years. Sam saying about missing them and Dean saying how they have to keep moving forward or their sacrifice will have been for nothing. If they were already doing that, Dean wouldn't have to even say that

Karen Gauck

I get what you're saying, but grief is weird. I was crying on the floor one day 10 years after my mom died because I missed her. We can get hit with sadness about a loss at anytime and if it helps to headcanon 5 years instead of 6 months, I can go with it.

Karen Gauck

Whether people liked the finale or not, I think we all agreed Sam's wig was horrible. Watch for Robert Singer laughing in the background when Sam shoves the pie in Dean's face. I think you'll get even more out of the show on your rewatch. It's extremely rewatchable.

Simone

There are a lot of very good comments here already, and there's a number of great meta posts about all the problems of this finale out there. So I'll just say: Three years later and I'm still not okay.

BunkerGirl

I agree we what you've said here. But personally I've never understand those who say Cas isn't there and is still in the Empty. Bobby flat out said Cas helped. I don't think he could help from the Empty.

Vel

I think it's a shame that people miss out on what an excellent show this is on it's own merits without all the projections or wants. I'm just grateful it exists.

Vel

Agreed on these points. I would have enjoyed the roadhouse scene as well. You know, I'm not that into FF, but I've read a couple that had the opposite ending written based on what J2 have talked about would have been the result if Sam would have died first..and I think Dabb and Co made the right call. Watching Dean waste away without Sam would have been even more tragic. J2 really DID put their hearts and souls into that barn scene. And of course they LOVE to remind us all with how much they ham it up for the photo ops...lol.

BunkerGirl

I love your bridge photo.🙂

Stephanie

I agree with you. It’s just there are Cas fan who say he’s still in the empty because we didn’t see him. Personally I hated the ending but hearing Cas helped and implication that Cas is in heaven helping Jack is a bright spot

NSTG_Eddie

Makes Sense Thanks for the insight Amye🫶🏻

Purple Nurple

I usually just scroll past the posts I don’t want to read - there’s so many people on Twitter who hate the ending and I just have to scroll past. This place isn’t the only one where people didn’t like it. I will always defend most of this episode but I still respect others opinions on it even if I don’t agree with them.

ElysiaFields19

Originally the Roadhouse was supposed to be filled with characters from over the years - a big party in heaven. Kansas was going to be there as the band. In fact the group was at the airport when they got the call that there was no crossing the border. Covid eliminated all of that. Jensen called Kripke to get his perspective on Dean's death; it took him a while to settle for it, especially the manner of death. The script had Dean lying down but Jensen insisted Dean was going to be on his feet. I hated that they couldn't ride out the pandemic and then film the final two episodes. Overall Jared and Jensen have been supportive of the way the finale played out but there have been times at cons when a comment is tossed out about a piece of rebar taking Dean out. There have been plenty of fan comment about Sam's wig. I have no idea how the crew got that sloppy. I know it was very different filming eps. 19 and 20. I believe you could have no more than 5 people gathered together regardless of the task. The moment the scene was done, actors were hustled off the set. Actors came to set one way and left by another so there was no increased number of people passing by each other. It was strict. A lot of actors that were going to appear for the final scene in the Roadhouse would have been there for one day, then stay quarantined for 2 weeks and all the testing required on both sides of the border. I live just across the border in WA state and Canada's rules about crossing the border became tougher several times to the point people who normally crossed daily to work at the resort with me, ended up renting a room at a motel for weeks, separated from family because of the quarantine rules for both countries. It was rough. I've wanted to be able to prepare you for this final episode so damn bad but I guess now you have experienced what we all went through watching it. Sorry. .

charlie dreamalottie

With you on the all of this Shelley, and firstly can I just say it has been an utter joy following your SPN journey, all of your incredibly insightful comments and reactions, your love of the show and the characters. I'll never be ok with how they did Dean dirty here, and the lacklustre feel of the episode as a whole, but the great news is there is a WEALTH of fanfic at your fingertips and you just unlocked the biggest part of the AO3 map. ALSO it is November 5th, the original air date of 15x18 so if you hop on tumblr right now you get to experience the three year confession anniversary Destiel Day in full force. I can't wait to follow your reactions to The Winchesters and rewatches, and fingers crossed for any continuation Jensen and co pull off in the future. x

AdoptDontShopPets

How are Dean girls? Many of us are forever bitter about this ending. You are correct they didn’t have to do it this way. Your reaction is exactly as expected. Why make people sad after 15 years? I could write pages of what I disliked about this episode, but will refrain other than to answer a couple questions you had. Don’t bother scouring the pictures on the wall to try and figure out who is Sam’s wife. In the show where one of the themes was “family don’t end with blood,” they literally ended the show with Sam having nothing but blood family pictures on the wall, not even his partner. Jared instantly liked the ending and Jensen did not, though he was gaslit into now liking the ending apparently. Maybe I will read the other comments. Discussion of the finale tends to make me angry, so it’s a gamble.

Tara.

Fully agree with your thoughts about the finale, and I figured you would feel this way as well. I am glad you didn't take it even harder than this, cause honestly I was afraid you would. But I think your expectations for the ending changed with each passing episode, and that's probably for the best. I am excited for you to fully join the SPN fandom! I want to be able to follow you through your journey now that you can read fics haha, will you share your experiences with that please? Or maybe just drop your tumblr url if you decide to rejoin ;)

BunkerGirl

You can read mine, I'm right there with you. Lol

Vel

Someone once said that it didn't even look like Sam in that wig, it looked like someone who wanted to sign you up for a rally to demand free college and healthcare at your state capital

Vel

Thank you for the context on the challenges with the covid restrictions. It's easy for all of us to say (of the show) "they can afford it" but have not considered the personal cost for the actors to go through that for a 30 second scene.

CaputmortuUm

Hey Shelley, I wanted to thank you for sharing your SPN journey with us. Thanks for sharing your opinion with us, for being willing to explain your point of view on things, for staying true to your feelings and to what you think of the show even when people might disagree with you. Your reactions gave me a lot of confort especially after the show ended. I hated the final. I never knew the death of a fictional character could hurt me so much and I truly felt like I was in mourning after Dean’s death. When Dean was getting slapped in the face with that pie, I felt like this was a giant « FUCK YOU » to Jensen, to Misha and to « us » fans of the show. I don’t think episodes 19 and 20 were well written even after learning about their initial plan (pre-covid). They didn’t do justice to this story or to any of the characters we learned to love. It seemed like a careless way to end a story that took 15 years to evolve. The writers views of the show felt stuck to the first 3 seasons. What about found family? What about the people you met along the way and build a community with? What about changing your opinions on things, like not all monsters are bad? What about legacy and the idea of passing your knowledge to generations upon generations (like John did first with his journal to his sons, like Bobby did with his books, like the men of letters, etc.)? I am sorry for sounding so bitter, but even after these post-show-years Supernatural ending still feels like a waste of potential in a butchered kind of way. I have no idea how a good ending for this show would look like to me, but I have read enough fix-it fanfic about Supernatural to know that this fandom can do a better work than the writers of this show did.

Purple Nurple

Thanks. I was like 'oh the mini tripod's gone wonky' as it was on timer. I let it and it got a cool shot anyway lol

Purple Nurple

Agree. I worked in TV over covid and it was tricky. We had to use all local crew as we filmed in the USA (I'm UK based) instead of sending our own people as planned due to quarantine periods. Whilst I work in documentaries it was stripped back - we literally had 2 people on location - camera and sound, whilst our Producer/Director was on a zoom call conducting the interviews from across the pond! To get the end scene they wanted with everyone there, there would have to be no quarantine period. No one can justify 2 weeks quarantine for a day's filming where the person may get a few seconds of close ups and a few more seconds in the background. Bobby's role was more significant. All those people on the bridge and the extras - all Canadian except for the core production team. Could they have waited to film it? Perhaps, but no one had any idea how long lockdowns/quarantine would last. They saw an opportunity to go back filming and they took it. They also had other projects that they were going onto which wanted the channels wanted to get going asap as they were also delayed.

vita

AdoptDontShopPets

Yes! A full episode of Dean and Miracle was the perfect ending.

Luis Nov

I vaguely remember reading some info about certain actors (cant remember which ones) saying that they were never contacted for them to be on the finale episode even before the pandemic and that the last ep shoot before everything went into lockdown was ep 18, so that would mean that they at least had to be planing and what not for the finale episode, so i dont know if it was an idea that never meant to be actually firmed/written for budget reasons or whatever. So idk, it does makes sense to me that they were not planning on actually include everyone on the finale. That being said, i feel like they could have at least included Cas and Jack on heaven (I mean, there was far more people at the pie festival) so I dont put everything into “it was because of covid”

Daniel Lewis

Jensen is on record saying he really didn't like the final ep and fought hard against it and he said this before it had even aired. I do think we have to be grateful for what they gave us considering COVID made it really difficult for them and they have said that because of COVID they were very limited.

Luis Nov

I was one of those people when I first watched the ep, and that was because someone distracted me on those seconds when Bobby said “Cas helped” which is sad that all mentioning of him was just two words but yeah, I now know that is the canon of the show that he is out of the empty (if you read between the lines I mean)

Amye Sabin

Jensen is also on reecord OVER and OVER saying he changed his mind after talking to Kripke! WHY can't people believe he overcame it He doe not however, like the part where he just drives Baby around in Heaven.

Rae

I probably won't be reading the other comments here so sorry if i repeat things. just wanted to say i haven't watched this episode since i watched it live. i also yelled "why rip off endgame?!?! hello??!!" at my tv. literally hated this episode with a fire of a thousand suns. almost every minute of it. it made me sad and angry and not in a good way, where the ep is so good. it was just deflating and frustrating on every level. not the way for our epic 15 year show to go out. just... bad feelings, bad memories. ♥️ on the other hand, doing a this rewatch with you has brought me so much joy. thank you. 😍🥰

Amye Sabin

Karen's right that the series needed to end with Bobby greeting Dean, but Gigi's also right that Dean & Cas have no closure...that we see. Cas wasn't there at the beginning, Bobby was. Cas was never even IN the beginning storyline, Bobby was. However, I think the episode would've benefited from less Bobby, more Sam. But that's MO.

Rae

so crazy! such fan service, but i'll take it.

Rae

the emotional highs and lows of 15x18-15x20 hit while i was in a rough semester getting my BSN and literally got my first grade that wasn't an A bc of the exams i took the week after this aired. jeez. 😅😂

Amye Sabin

I do know there were concerns about Jared's new role in Walker, which was going to be starting production soon (January, if I'm not mistaken), and they needed to get these final two SPN episodes done for that purpose alone.

Amye Sabin

sorry you didn't see the beauty, rushed or not, in it. (btw Jared was going to be starting a new role in a few months - they had to get the last two SPN episodes out)

Leticia

i joined the fandom November 5, 2021 when i found the show and i found your reactions on Youtube very soon after and have followed your journey since then! youre my favorite reactor! I personally took Deans death pretty hard too.. i literally cried for a long time after... cant wait to see your reactions to The Winchesters!!

BexFangirl

You finally met the most beloved ship Sam/blurry wife (jk obviously)

Rae

thank you - done

BexFangirl

As someone who hadn't watched this show and didn't know much about it, when this episode aired I had a very social media first impression. After the confessione scene trended so big I kept my eye on the spn fandom on tumblr and this trended pretty big too. So what I took from it that day was: pie fest, party city wig, the car gets into heaven and Dean dies of tetanus. Honestly the amount of tetanus jokes I've seen posted that day, I was completely in believe that's what he died of for longer than I'm proud to admit.

Daniel Lewis

That is also true he is on record saying speaking with Kripke helped him accept the ending.

AdoptDontShopPets

I enjoy Shelley’s reactions more than any I have seen.

Leticia

Me too!! She truly is the best! I've tried watching other reactors but hers is the best!

rose mnor

So what happened to the finale? During Vegascon March 2020, there was a report from an M&G, that I'm just gonna copy and paste below (please use your own discretion in consuming this info since there is no official source for M&G, this is only hearsay): I was at the con in Vegas last March, which took place March 5-8. At a m&g, a very well-respected cast member mentioned that (as of that week) the writers were still frantically writing the finale script. Another cast member was present and affirmed this with nodding, bemused laughter, etc. They both had a general attitude of “it’s kind of a shit show in the writers room” and also “Jesus I hope they get it together so the finale doesn’t suck.” Those words were not spoken, but that was the impression they gave ... ... that Friday was the end of filming of 15.18, that means that they only had one more ep to film, 8 days of filming, before they would be filming the finale. Seems hectic to me and also seems like they had to be re-writing, given that Jensen has made it clear the writers and execs knew how the show was supposed to end for well over a year prior. /end m&g ... and then Covid and quarantine happened. From the last interview that Andrew Dabb made before we quarantine, dated January 14, 2020: Q: The ending for the Winchesters’ story that Chuck wrote this season included a grave marked with their surname. How much of that moment was foreshadowing versus a red herring versus something in between? AD: Chuck’s ending, what he wrote in Becky’s house, will pay off completely. It’s not needless; it’s not fading foreshadowing. It’s something you will see pay off at some point during the season. It’s meant to create a little tension with the audience, but my guess is it kicks much more into gear later in the season than it does now. Q: This final season has had many callbacks to earlier days. Is there an element of bringing the story full circle at the end in regards to how Sam was on the road towards a normal life and Dean pulled him back in? AD: Not necessarily. The guys have changed, so it would be weird to have them still be holding onto the dreams they had 15 years ago — and that was their perfect life. Certainly we want to give people closure in a lot of different ways in this final season, but I don’t think we’re actively looking to beat-for-beat mirror, to end these guys where they started. To me, that invalidates the journey, in a way. via source: https://variety.com/2020/tv/features/supernatural-season-15-episode-9-trap-dean-purgatory-sam-eileen-chuck-ending-interview-1203463180/ So, again, what happened to the finale? What the hell happened to this fully formed ending that had shaped the writing of at least eighteen episodes? What happened between January and March, and what else changed during covid? [insert we.just.don't.know.gif]

rose mnor

Jared Jared liked the finale, he had said it was one of his favorite episodes. After the finale aired, Jared liked many tweets from cast, crew, and friends, congratulating him and Jensen on their acting performances in the finale. Jared said: - “It was a success story — it was Dean’s success story,” Padalecki reflects on the “Supernatural” series finale. “This guy gave his life for years and years and years and ultimately gave his life to have his No. 1 on the planet live as normal a life as possible.” - Padalecki confirms for Variety that there was no version he had read that revealed who Sam’s wife was in those flashes through his later years. In the episode, she is seen out of focus, from a long distance. - “I think it was very, very purposely ambiguous and strangely I agreed with that,” he says. “I feel like a lot of what Sam did after Dean died was almost in honor of what Dean would have wanted, and Dean would not have wanted his little brother to marry Eileen, Ruby, someone in the life.” https://variety.com/2021/tv/features/jared-padalecki-supernatural-walker-defining-deaths-1234852596/ Presumably (imo) because of the above-mentioned interview and Jared's seemingly deliberate obfuscation (again, imo) of episode S15.E8 Our Father, Who Aren't in Heaven of which Dean was canonically happy with Sam and Eileen's burgeoning relationship, plus the fans' reaction to both pros and cons to it, Shoshannah Stern walked back out from wanting Eileen to be seen as deaf representative, as she had thought previously Sam and Eileen’s relationship was important for the disabled community. She had previously said below: "Deaf or disabled people are usually the victim, not the one who rescues. The fact that she is such a viable love interest is not insignificant either. So many times people don’t see people with disabilities as feasible relationship material. Because of that they’re often desexualized and written off, especially in that particular sort of way, but it’s something that is so central to the human experience, and it’s something that people deserve to have if they’re so inclined. And so the fact that the main character of the show is interested in a deaf woman in that way is something that I believe is the opposite of reductive. It’s enhancing, not just for the a character, but for young people with disabilities in the audience. I hope they see themselves the way that Sam sees Eileen and realize that they can, should, and will be seen that way by people that are important to them and to the world, because that carries an inordinate amount of weight." via link from January 29, 2020: https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/supernatural-shoshannah-stern-this-close-eileen-sam-chuck-final-season-interview-1203474955/ ... she withdrew her previous standing, a year later on January 17, 2021, with the following statement: Thank you for the love! Really moving to see how much Eileen meant. Please know what I want is to build up representation on its own. So much of that is imperfect, but to tear anyone/anything else down just makes it seem like it's not strong enough to stand by itself. 🤟& only 🤟 via link: https://twitter.com/Shoshannah7/status/1350596467560308736

Jay

A few background facts you might find interesting: Misha (and I think Jensen and Jared too) were going to live tweet through the finale, and Misha sat down with his kids to watch it - then abruptly stopped part way through. Jensen and Danneel set up their production company and secured the rights to future SPN-related properties around this time (I think before the finale was filmed). It was registered under the name Free Will Productions before the name was changed to Chaos Machine. A little official SPN film went out on social media with cast and crew individually saying goodbye. Jensen and Misha are missing from the film for unknown reasons. Jensen posted a pic on Instagram of himself inspecting the rebar on set with a jokey caption asking for it to be taken away. That was (still is) the only thing he posted about the finale afterwards. In the outtakes, he clowns running out the door of the barn.

claudia.

had to hold back for years trying not to tell you to avoid this episode. I'm sorry you had to watch it. I knew you'd hate it. we're in this together. it was lackluster and weird. I'm so sorry. I felt empty and numb watching this live.💔 now onto fix it fanfic!!

BexFangirl

This had me going back and forth between laughing and crying. I actually made a post about that after watching this episode. I did cry more back then. This time for example I was mostly laughing during the barn scene because it felt so ridiculous that they were doing this. And only cried afterwards, but Jared's wig cracks me up every time.

claudia.

they had the opportunity to do something utterly fantastic and they did .... this. NONE of the characters had a good ending. dont blame this on frickin covid. fifteen years for this rushed pile of garbage with zero character development. I'm still angry three years later, lol

rose mnor

Jensen Jensen's reaction: earlier he very diplomatically said (before the finale) that mostly didn't like the ending saying maybe was too close to the character or maybe because the show was ending, then (after the finale) later said liked moments from the episode, i.e. the barn scene, but nowadays he is pretty vocal about it, about how he did not like the way Dean died. - He does not like (on Twitter) or otherwise interact with any social media posts about 15.19 or 15.20, including posts he was tagged in by cast, crew, and friends—including Misha and Jared. His last liked Tweets for several months after the finale were tweets from Misha Collins and Bobo Berens about 15.18, and he only subsequently then liked a birthday tweet to him from Kathryn Newton on March 1, 2021. - At NASHCON 2022, in response to a fan question asking if he had wanted the closure or death for Dean, Jensen says, “I didn’t want him to go out the way he did. I think that’s been documented.” - At Crossroads 6 in March 2023, Jensen reportedly says about the finale, “I don’t have to LIKE it but I’m proud of it” - he almost immediately formed Chaos Machine, previously named Freewill Entertainment. How fast? Well, 2 days after they filmed the last scene on the bridge, Sept 17, 2020, and subsequently changed name on Oct 12, 2020.

BexFangirl

It's funny to me that you said you're not here to give the people what they want in a people pleaser kinda way, because you're the one that gives me what I want (or hope for) most out of all the spn reactors I've watched XD This has been an amazing journey, even though I've only started watching spn myself two years ago (on the day actually) and have been here for ca. 1.5 years. Can't wait to see more of your fandom journey... the fan content, the studying in the rewatch, also the Winchesters etc. etc. I wish you a lot of fun with all the fanfiction out there. There are so many really good and legendary ones. PS: If you decide to make a tumblr I'd love to follow.

BexFangirl

Wrap Up Question: How do you think will the confession scene and your own journey in experiencing destiel all the way through change your view in the rewatch of the show?

Jay

Also, Bob Singer is in the background of the pie scene, laughing at Dean getting a pie in the face. I think the final scene would have been vastly improved if it had paid tribute to the French Mistake by having a real-life angel with a shotgun walk on to that damn bridge and shoot Singer.

rose mnor

And Shelley, I hope someone will brief you on the full backstory of the Market Research, which we found out right after the finale which aired on November 19, 2020. At least I hope it could give you some comfort and closure about the inconclusive ending of Dean and Cas's plot arc.

Lauran Mitchell

I've not watched the reaction yet, as I have not watched this episode since it aired. I thought it was the worst finale to a show I have ever seen, and that's saying a lot--I watched Game of Thrones, How I Met Your Mother, and Dexter! I pretty much pretend it doesn't exist. That said, looking forward to rewatching The Winchesters with you, and I'm sure a lot of us have some great "fix it" fanfic recommendations if you want them!

Adavan

I agree 100% with everything you've written here. 1000% Dean girl, and I really liked the finale. I bawled my eyes out for most of the episode, but in the end I was happy that the boys got "peace when they were done". I appreciate that Sam got to live a life. I also agree with you that they should have just shown Eileen, even if they just had to CGI her in there. Lol! They're definitely endgame in my book, and in my heart, blurry wife will always be Eileen. Their son even kind of looks like her! 😁 I will forever be heartbroken that Dean didn't get to have a fuller life (although I agree with your headcanon that time had past - The boys have said that's what they always believed as well. I think Jensen said he figured about 5 years, but I'd say a decade.) But being heartbroken about the fate of a character doesn't mean the story is bad. At least, imo. Wrapping up 15 seasons was always gonna be tough, and then having to do so in the middle of the pandemic - being the first WB show back, trying to be safe and set the standard so other shows and crews could get back to work - that was just a LOT on top of everything else, and over all I think they did a great job. I definitely would have preferred that original last scene Jensen's talked about though. But I won't say what it was, so I don't spoil them talking about it in a future Con.

Adavan

Agreed. That's what that line was telling us. In my mind Cas is up in heaven visiting with the boys regularly. 🥲

Jay

And now I've just watched the episode and I'm crying and I have to say Shelley is the best!

Josh Poulton

I was angry the first time watching but I watched a few times and I understood. Jensen said he wanted it that way lol.. also there's talk of season 16....

Purple Nurple

Walker actually started airing on 21st January so it was filmed way before that. It must have been very soon after the finale.

Adavan

I found my group! 😄 I am always in the minority when it comes to the finale. Lol! I agree with all of you. Agree that that Sam wig was atrocious (even Dean's hair in the bridge scene was a bit rough) I disagree about the Neoni version of Carry On, I really love that version. Although I agree with you that it would have been better to have the original play last. I agree completely with what you said about Jack telling them he wouldn't be hands on, so he couldn't have saved him. We wanted a hands off God, we wanted the boys (and EVERYONE) to have free will, to not have cosmic forces interfering with their lives. That's what we got. It was weird to just bring Jenny back - pretty random. But I guess the actress was local and didn't have to quarantine? 🤷‍♀️ @Karen I agree, I wish the conversation about Jack and Cas had happened somewhere else at a different time. To me, though, @Amye, I actually think the way the talk about them seems like the wounds from their loss are no longer fresh. That conversation is actually part of why I believe a fair amount of time has passed. Otherwise I think they'd be sadder, less able to just continue enjoying the day. But...definitely lots of room for interpretation. @Sare, yes Jensen has said that many times. Though he had a hard time with it in the beginning, he ended up very proud of everything they accomplished and that he's been in both camps of being unhappy with the finale and happy with the finale, so he sees both sides as valid. Which they are.

Adavan

Agreed with all words written here by both of you. Lol!

Purple Nurple

Wrap up question: Now that you've had some time to sit with the finale, how much time do YOU think/want to have passed since episode 19? Who do you want Sam's blurry wife to be? Also: what do you think Sam and Dean will get up to in heaven now and if they do a new season or limited series, do you want it to be 'heaven Sam and Dean' or flashbacks to the time between eps 19 and 20?

Adavan

Agreed Karen, my mom died over thirty years ago and there are still moments where her absence hits me and makes me sad.

Adavan

Yes, that photo is gorgeous. And I can only imagine how emotional being there would be. ❤️💔

Adavan

Agreed on all points. This is why I haven't bothered writing my own take. I'm just piling on to all of yours! 😄 I also don't believe that Sam could have led a normal life as long as Dean was still hunting. For exactly the reasons you've stated. Dean would NEVER stop hunting. There's no way (as he's shown a million times over the years) that he could just sit by and enjoy his life while there were people dying that he knew he could save. There's an inherent tragedy residing alongside his heroism that's part of why we all love Dean so much. And yes, as long as Dean was hunting, Sam was hunting.

Adavan

Agreed - Dean having to live on without Sam would have been so much more cruel to his character.

Adavan

But I love those ops and they always make me cry! 😁

Adavan

Yes, I think you're right. Also, all the people at the pie festival were likely a mix of crew people and local actors who wouldn't have to quarantine. Both boys have said that the last roadhouse scene was supposed to include "everyone they could get to come back."

Shruti M

Hi Shelley! Been watching your reactions for years now and it’s insane to think that the journey for supernatural is ending. This is a buzzfeed article that came out when the finale did and it’s an interesting read related to dean and Cas’ fate:

Adavan

Yes! I love that Bob was in the background laughing at the boys. Seems appropriate. The terribleness of Sam's wig is the one rallying cry the entire fandom will answer to - thanks for your unifying influence, terrible wig! 😁

Adavan

Yes, saying Jensen was gaslit into the way he feels, is incredibly insulting to Jensen's intelligence and autonomy as an actor.

Adavan

He's also said, over and over that he's been in both camps of liking and disliking Dean's ending, and that he feels both sides have validity. Which I agree with. I don't think it's crazy that people don't like Dean's ending, but I thought it was heartbreaking, appropriate and foreshadowed like CRAZY!

Sara L

With COVID they had to change the ending a bit. A lot of past cast members were suppose to come back for the final scene but it was not feasible with COVID to fly everyone for little work. I heard the true final scene was suppose to be the boys at the roadhouse with everyone and Kanas performing. A few trivia: the dialogue from Dean and Sam during the death scene mirrors the pilot. The clothing in the end scene also resembles their outfits in the pilot.

AdoptDontShopPets

Maybe gaslit is too strong a word. I can see the way I wrote it makes it sound like he was a pushover, but in no way have I ever thought being gaslit means that you are not smart. Gaslighting makes you second guess your gut feelings or what you know is true. That’s not a failure, it is power imbalance or emotional manipulation. I don’t want to go into details as I expect there is some of this in fan content Shelley will be seeing. I personally feel like so many people were telling him what they gave us is the best story, that he grew to accept it as truth even if it didn’t match his gut. As time has gone on, he seems to like it better now than when he first learned about it. Sometimes he flat out says he likes the ending and other times his words are more careful…saying something like that he enjoyed the experience of doing it, or the callbacks to S1 etc. So I believe his unhappiness with Dean’s ending was still there and something we can talk about more deeply another day.

Emme C.

I could have accepted Dean’s early death a lot easier if we had gotten all of the reunions in heaven. Would have softened the blow. Damn Covid. 😒

Kristin Dorner

DISCLAIMER: I LOATHED the finale for a lot of reasons, so anyone who liked/loved it please don’t read this. I’m genuinely happy that you found joy in it, but I most certainly did not. So…..the finale. I have watched this episode a total of one time, the night it aired. I even skipped through your reaction (sorry😬) because it hurts too much to watch, even years later. For me, I think that this episode kind of betrayed the point of the entire show. I do think that Sam and Dean (The Winchesters as a whole actually) are at the core of the show. At the beginning, they were raised so isolated from the world, even the Hunter world. They knew Bobby and Pastor Jim, but very little about the rest. They were kind of made to be codependent on each other. And throughout these 15 seasons, they both did a lot of growing and discovered so much meaning in found family. And the way that found family was almost entirely erased and the last shot was Sam and Dean alone at the end was so painful. Like, they defeated Chuck and now had total control over their lives and they were STILL just chilling in the bunker…hunting? That so goes against what both Sam and Dean wanted. What happened to toes in the sand?! Or Sam maybe wanting to go back to school or just quitting hunting?! From a story-telling, character development POV it is just so the opposite of the arcs that they had created. I hate when people say, “it started with the bros, so it should end with the bros”, like ok so we didn’t learn or grow or gain any kind of community? Awesome👌🏻 There is a really good podcast called The Fangirl Business that did such an amazing discussion episode about why it felt the way it did. They did reviews of all S15 episodes from the perspective of Crisha (who is a therapist who specializes in fandom and mental health) and Catherine (who has a masters degree in literary criticism and analysis) and all of their episodes are so good. There’s also a podcast called Monster Of The Week that’s more comedy based. The hosts are Chris and Jeremy and they are chaotic AF, but are so fun. They start off being kind of meh about Destiel, but eventually (starting most clearly in S8 surprise surprise) have some hilarious and really beautiful commentary on them. There are SOOOOOOOOOO many amazing fanfics to recommend!!! This is getting long, so I’ll put my faves in a reply comment🥰

Kristin Dorner

Not sure what you like in terms of themes or spice or anything like that, so I’ll try to be clear in my recs. All of these were 10/10 for me. 1.Four Little Words For Intercourse. It’s an AU where Dean is a mechanic who is going to school for a business degree. He is also starting to question his sexuality and he wants to test it out by calling a phone s*x operator. It is EXTREMELY spicy, but also so beautiful and emotional. 2. A Room of One’s Own. Set in the SPN world in like mid to late S8, sometime after they found the bunker. This one I want to say is like 75% spice, but it is so funny! There is also a conversation about guilt, very Purgatory-esque, that is really beautiful. 3. Talk Some Sense To Me (Kenopsia). Aka The Bunker Fic. This is my personal favorite “fix-it fic”. Trying not to go too much into it, but Cas and Eileen are brought back and all 4 of them go around to explore the decommissioned Men of Letters bunkers. The tension in this one is *chef’s kiss*. There are some more really famous ones in the Destiel fandom that I haven’t read yet, so I can’t blurb them for you but here’s the names of them: Ninety-One Whiskey (AU war fic), To Build A Home, Down To Agincourt (aka the million word count fic; all I know about this one is it’s supposed to start out set in the 5x04 The End AU), and So Says The Sword. Hope you have a blast! And if you do end up running out of SPN content to watch/react to a Destiel fanfic book club would be super fun😉

YazH

Karen and Linda, I'm with you both :) I am a DeanGirl through and through (though I love Sam, too) and although I just spent Shelley's reaction sobbing my eyes out (aGAIN!) ... I now have a Pavlovian reaction to 'Brothers in Arms' (!)..., I think that the ending for each brother made sense. Dean dying on the job (saving people, hunting things) and then waiting for his brother...and Sam grieving his brother. and then building a quieter life, with memories of Dean around him, honouring his brother. And then them both reuniting in Heaven and spending the rest of forever, together, at peace. The Brothers Winchester.

YazH

Completely agree! I love that the one thing all fans agree on about the family is the tragedy that was Sam's wig! And the fact that we had a global pandemic happening which affected not only the people Sam and Dean got to see in Heaven, but even prevented them from having a series wrap party :( I'm glad they all stayed healthy and safe, but emotionally not having a celebration at the end must have been really rough on the whole cast and crew.

Purple Nurple

Yes that story Jensen talks about will be in the JIB post s15 video

Shona

Well your feelings were exactly the same as mine. Thank you for the ride. Your reactions have been a staple for me for 3 years now. Looking forward to your thoughts on The Winchesters. Xx

AdoptDontShopPets

Greatly appreciate your comments. You are much more level headed and factual than my emotional comments 🧡

AdoptDontShopPets

Ooh, that’s creative! I will forever hate that his voice saying “Cut” is the last word spoken in ep 327.

AdoptDontShopPets

I feel the same. There was zero celebration of Dean and his life. He just died, drank a beer and drove Baby…stuff we saw every week. A party with friends at Harvelle’s would have been much more like the wake he described in 11x23.

AdoptDontShopPets

100% yes to your description of why the finale is disliked by so many.

Jenn

I am BEGGING someone to put together clips of them talking about the finale from the cons. Begging. I personally know i find it cathartic

Kyle Reese Popcorn Fan

It feels kinda sad that basically at the end of all this Dean just died bloody and early in life just like he thought. It's kinda nice that Sam went on to have a life like he wanted but for Dean it kinda feels like his arc and defeating Chuck didn't change anything for him, except i guess the afterlife.

Jay

Agree with all this on why the finale is awful! I used to follow Monster of the Week and found it great that those two straight men had no difficulty seeing Dean and Cas as a couple. I haven't listened to the Fangirl Business, thanks for the tip – I'll give it a try.

Kristin Dorner

I hope you enjoy it! I had a really hard time with understanding and connecting with S15, but the things they broke down in their episodes were so eye opening! Their Becky episode about Atomic Monster (15x04) was the first one I listened to and I loved it!

Kristin Dorner

There’s so much more, but for me that was the biggest thing. Plus as a writer myself the fact that they didn’t have Dean save Cas from the Empty was insane. It was an absolutely perfect example of literary symmetry (as Chuck likes to say) and they just left it there?!? And after the Shadow got posted at Jack for making the Empty loud?! UGH 😩 So much wasted potential!

Beeba Smith

It certainly does suck that Dean died so young. He deserved to retire ("fun" fact: when Sam is in Dean's room after the funeral, there's a form on the desk; it's a job application form, and fans have theorised he was applying to be a fireman since he said in one of the early seasons - might even have been season 1, can't remember - that he wanted to be a firefighter when he was a kid. He was going to retire and get a job. I'm sobbing), to have some kids - because we know that, even though he never really said so, he absolutely wanted kids, every time he interacts with kids on the show he's so good with them and enjoys their company, and we know he loved being Ben's stepdad. Toes in the sand with Sam and Cas at his side, like he said. He deserved the world. Even if he didn't get all of that, at the very LEAST he deserved to go out heroically, not because of a rusty nail.

SKK

I haven’t read everyone’s comments (yet), so please forgive me if I’m being repetitive. I’ve arrived at a very philosophical place with this finale… When I first saw it, I sobbed a whole bunch during the barn scene, rejoiced upon seeing ourBobby, and was unsettled when it was over; however, I realized then and can further acknowledge now that my lack of settle wasn’t because the finale didn’t make “sense,” per se, but rather because *I* didn’t “want” that for Dean. I wanted him to be rewarded after such a difficult life. (aka I wanted something for my imagination to look forward to.) But that’s on me. 🤷‍♀️ And I’ve always said that (for me) if I watch a show through the lens of what I *want,* then I’m not fully able to appreciate the show I’ve got… I’ve also always said I love this show, and I wouldn’t change it… So I guess I’ve really painted myself in a corner and have to stand by my principles 🙄 (or whatever). 😜 I can appreciate this finale. And I don’t have to watch it. 😉 Two things can be true. [end philosophical rant]

Beeba Smith

Also, "happy" 3 year anniversary to Despair! (It's officially the 6th now where I am, not the 5th, but I know it still is the 5th in USA)

Vel

THIS. People forget Dabb wrote "Trial and Error" where Dean disclosed what his perfect ending was. And Dabb went with it. The show did what the show does...follow the formula. How I feel about it is not the same thing. But I'm just parroting what my comment was yesterday...sorry. Just digressing. Sorry Linda - I hadn't read your responses to my comments before adding this. ;)

rose mnor

@Kristin Dorner Yes to the podcast The Fangirl Business. Because of them, it prodded me to answer an AITA Reddit, to the following question: AITA for telling my daughter that she needs to stop letting Supernatural control her life? Me: I recommend her to listen to podcasts about the series finale. There is one that talks about the episode itself (Deconstructing Carry On) and another that analyzes the episode (Carry On - Pain, Trauma and Processing), by The Fangirl Business. I will put the links at the end of this post. Both are very, very good and very cathartic to listen to, at least to me. Not a word of a lie, I wept together with the podcasters. They identify what is wrong with the episode and put a name to what we felt as trauma. For those of us that felt how wrong the ending was, it is very validating to hear that others felt the same and we don't feel stupid for feeling this way. Also, there is a youtube channel Media Buzzkill, The Fiction of Free Will video essay, which talks about where the series finale went wrong. There is another video essay if she prefers the relationship between Dean/Cas, The Evolution of Destiel. If she does not then this video is not for her. Both are very good. For me, even as an adult myself and a long-time fan (since the pilot aired), also a Dean fan, after I listened to both the podcasts and watched the videos, I felt some kind of healing starting inside me, and able to move forward. And hopefully, she can move on after that too. Podcast https://thefangirlbusiness.buzzsprout.com/619915 The Fiction of Freewill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHEitiHTBeQ&t=1486s The Evolution of Destiel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHbum2TBhqg

Vel

Jenn - you should join the discord and make your voice heard. That's where those discussions take place. Hopefully the people there will be helpful to you.

Vel

My comment from yesterday is the macro mirror of yours. Gotta love philosophy.

rose mnor

Thanks for reading Karen ... Jensen on Michael Rosenbaum's Inside of You podcast, imo, had eloquently articulated from which we can infer that he felt Supernatural had not stuck the landing for this finale. His subsequent actions after the last shooting days of SPN speak so loudly, and his carefully chosen words after the finale paint that picture clearly, which to me is not that hard to navigate in ascertaining his position on the matter ...

Vel

Luis - ElysiaFields19's comments and Sharon's replies give some further insight to what it was like from a professional standpoint. It was really helpful to understand more about what it was like at that time.

vita

wendy carmany

Jensen Hated it...And so did I. Dean girl at heart. 3 years and still miss "Dean" very much.

AdoptDontShopPets

Sharon has put together a fan content that includes it. Just not sure how fast Shelley will get to it since there are more fan contents waiting for her than slots on her schedule.

AdoptDontShopPets

100% true. He didn’t get toes in the sand or to start that job it seems like he was considering given that job description/contract on his desk.

AdoptDontShopPets

I am glad you will eventually binge TW with Shelley. Watching it ultimately helped me move past my anger about the finale just a little bit. Of course no one can tell that from my comments to these last episodes 🤣

BunkerGirl

omg this is amazing!!!

BunkerGirl

I had always (incorrectly!!) assumed fanfic was written by 16 year olds who thought writing naughty fics was cool, but they would read more like a junior high story. omg was I misguided! I finally decided to check it out and read 91Whiskey and was hooked!! Since then I've read sooooo many amazing well written fanfics. I'm actually a traditionally published young adult author and had interned for awhile in the submissions dept of a publishing house. And let me tell you...many (not all) of the fanfics I read could be regular published books. This fandom has some super talented writers.

BunkerGirl

Sharon said in the discord that this is in an upcoming fan edit for shelley. I loooove this edit so much and have watched it many times.

BunkerGirl

I also heard it was supposed to be Jimmy at the Roadhouse in heaven and not Cas...and I was like wtf??? I think that would have pissed me off even more than Cas not being there at all.

BunkerGirl

I agree with your last sentence, however... an actor can absolutely be gagged by a show or network on what they can say (and usually are). It is very common in the tv/film industry and to think otherwise is naive. It can actually blackball him from future projects (even with other networks) if he doesn't comply.

Kristin Dorner

100% agreed! So many would make incredible traditionally published books, tv series or even movies! I think Four Little Words would make an AMAZING mini series on HBO or something😍

AdoptDontShopPets

Ninety One Whiskey is my absolute favorite. I would die for the Dean in that story.

Kristin Dorner

Rose, I responded to that AITA post with a very similar thing!! I can’t imagine how hard it would be as a parent who maybe didn’t watch the show or love the show as much as your kid to understand how much the finale truly triggered and traumatized people, especially those with mental health issues and SI who related so much to Dean. I hope she was able to listen to it and that it helped her process.

Lefwyn

Hi Jay -- > A little official SPN film went out on social media with cast and crew individually saying goodbye I don't know if I ever got to see that... is it archived anywhere that you know? Thanks! :)

BunkerGirl

You listed some I haven't read yet, so thank you! <3

Pntngbrn

I really liked the finale. I don't think it could have gone any other way. Sam got the life he always wanted, and Dean was at peace. Given the character it makes sense. I chuckle to myself knowing too that there wouldn't have been this much outcry if it had happened the other way around, so forgive my cynicism. I know how many fans didn't like it, but I wouldn't want to watch a show they wrote anyway. Chuck said it best, "Fans are always gonna bitch." What a great series, what epic characters. I feel like they wrote it for me. I did not always like where it was going, but I sure did enjoy the ride.

Purple Nurple

Yes I've put together a compilation from 2021 cons - because that's when they talked about it most and it made it up an entire video. I also have a separate JIB one too. the 2021 one is in the first batch of videos, so hopefully it should be watched soonish - like December

Purple Nurple

I have a feeling Hasnaa might have used that in a video. There's definitely something similar if it's not that particular video. She can't get on patreon right now due to Egypt now allowing her to pay for international purchases until she can get a credit card!

Purple Nurple

We don't mind rants on here. It was more spoilers for Shelley really (she can read between the lines very well!). I don't agree with everyone's view on the finale, but I can appreciate others opinions on it.

Jay

thank you for finding that, I didn’t know where it was

Hasnaa

Finally I am able to re sub and comment, it's been so tough. This finale feels like it was written after season 8, in the way how much it disregard character growth, the writers also didn't wanna commit to anything while also insist on closing the story instead of having an open ending, for example: did Sam get out of the hunting life or stayed? It's up for interpretation, who did Sam marry? It's up for interpretation, how much time passed between 15x19 and 15x20? It's up for interpretation (the script says 6 months but they didn't display any text on the screen to say that even though it was really easy to do) so that if you want to believe dean got to live extra 5 years between the two episodes I guess you can, does dean love CAS back romantically? It's up for interpretation, does CAS get out of the empty and that's how "CAS helped" or did he "help" by saving both jack and dean and getting them to this point where they defeated chuck and by teaching jack about humanity which enabled him to rebuild heaven in a way they will prefer? It's up for interpretation. So if you're leaving almost everyone's ending up for interpretation, why have an epilogue in the first place? You could've just left at the boys driving into the sunset at the last of 15x19 and everyone would've made their own ending in their minds anyway!!! They wanted to have their cake and eat it too, It feels so dumb to have an epilogue with the sole purpose of just killing dean off for angst 🤦🏻‍♀️. Oh I was so disappointed and baffled by this ending, so mediocre and left me with so many unanswered questions: 1) who's the fuck is Genny and more importantly why Genny??? She's just a random victim who turned vampire in our first vamp episode in season 1 that (get this..) dean didn't even meet in that episode, it was Sam who talked to her, she literally was on the screen for less than 5 mins in one episode in season 1, if you want to have a monster from the past to kill dean why not have the son of that kitsune childhood friend of Sam who literally vowed to kill him someday, at least then it would've not only made sense and tied up loose ends but also dean would've had it coming and made that episode in season 7 even more gut wrenching. 2) how the fuck does being a vamp mime work? And how can you bite or feed while wearing a clown mask??!! That's so stupid, can't believe that's what takes out dean freaking Winchester and for anyone who will inevitably going to try to explain to me in a reply how dumb I am and that it was to show that without Chuck's protection the boys can die at any random case now, I get it, I know what they wanted to convey I just don't like it, for the same reasons I didn't like the hero's journey which was also written by dabb and also implied that without chuck the boys have no skills. 3) who's that blurry wife and where the fuck is Eileen??? They really didn't give a shit about sam's partner they just needed a womb for dean junior? Sam's wife is not even in any of the photographs in his house, neither is cas or jack, only blood family is there plus bobby, I don't know how Sam could've ever had that promotional photo of him, dean, john and Mary from Lebanon because who could've taken it? Jack wasn't in that episode and cas didn't meet john so it's literally impossible to have that photo but sure have all the photos of john and fuck cas and jack I guess. 4) why the fuck would they have dean say that they have to live and keep going otherwise CAS's sacrifice would've been for nothing only to have dean die 5 mins later?????? Is the message that cas's sacrifice was for nothing? He sacrificed his life and eternal peace just so dean could live only for dean to die six months later (according to the script)???!! You telling me dean had multiple breakdowns trying to be free only to have 6 months of freedom that we didn't even see!! Hello? And they really had Sam be the one to remember cas and jack and have dean reply with "don't be an Eeyore"?? Really? The man who was sobbing on the floor after losing CAS and got so drunk last episode that he blacked out? Even in this episode there were lots of empty beer bottles around dean's room and him hugging miracle in bed in the morning felt like he really needed support and comfortable but sure Sam, don't be an Eeyore who even is this dean? I don't recognize him this entire episode, it's almost like a caricature of himself, like when bobby asked him in heaven what he would like to do if he can do anything they really had the answer be go for a drive to nowhere? Like he literally was driving not half an hour ago before he died, they really reduced dean to beer and muscle car which is very shortsighted and honestly sad. 5) why the fuck did the show confirm dean's low self esteem and dark intrusive thoughts about himself and his future to be true? Dean has always thought of himself as a grunt, that Sam is the smart one, the brave one, the one who deserves to live, he always thought that there's no light at the end of the tunnel for him, that he will die young bloody on a case, that it was always gonna end up like this for him, and here the writers confirmed all of dean's insecurities instead of subverting them for what??? To traumatize us? Lots of people always say that dean got the ending he always wanted, which is simply not true, he got the ending he always thought he would get not what he wanted, he wanted to retire and go to the beach with Sam and cas, to make things even worse you know that piece of paper on dean's drawer in his room that you kept asking what is that? That they kept showing, that's a job application, dean was applying to a normal job, he was planning on retiring like he always wanted while Sam wasn't even thinking about retiring, most importantly they confirmed that the only way Sam could live the life he wanted was if dean dies, tainting the entire show for me, so dean was just an obstacle in sam's path to true happiness this whole time? What Sam has been a prisoner? That the only way to break the cycle of violence is if dean dies?? Confirming dean's belief that he's a burden to the people around him??! This ignores years of character development for both Sam and dean. Dean deserved better, telling your suicidal character that he can only find peace in death is such a shitty message that I just don't have enough words to express how fucked up it is. This character who tried so hard to live freely doesn't get to. In dean's dying speech to Sam he tells Sam "it's okay, that's good" how the fuck is him dying good??? They really couldn't give us a happy ending for dean without CAS so they just killed him. 6) why did the show end with only dean and Sam? I know this is controversial but dropping all other characters with no explanation just to have a "full circle" and play on nostalgia is cheap af and doesn't work for me. And I am sorry I don't buy the covid excuse because if you can get mark p., Jake Abel, jim beaver and fucking Genny to quarantine you can get Misha Collins, what about jack what's the excuse for jack not being there, Alex already quarantined and was there for episode 19, what we got is 98% of what they wanted and it's not good. This show was 🤏 close to having a revolutionary ending but unfortunately settled for mediocrity. 7) what the fuck is that party city wig that "old Sam" has got on 8) what the fuck was the whole plot about CAS losing his powers, where did it go? What was the point?? I wanted so badly to tell you to spare yourself the trauma and not watch this episode because as mediocre as last episode was at least it wasn't traumatizing and I liked the open ending of the boys driving baby to the sunset, but of course I couldn't spoil you. I thought I would like this episode more with time or even come to accept it but here we are, 3 years from it and it still just upsets me like the first time I watched it Needless to say that finale divided the fandom even more, people who loved it and people who hated it were at each other's throats, even in the discord we had to create two separate channels, one for finale positive talk and one for finale negative talk so people can mute whichever channel they want, it's wild!!!

Hasnaa

Hey, I am finally able to re sub to Shelley's Patreon and reading the comments I have missed and yes this edit is indeed in an upcoming fan edit

Hasnaa

What Jared chose to believe is also not on the screen so 🤷🏻‍♀️, you put more importance on an actor's headcanon and other fans put more weight on the written script but ultimately since no five years timestamp was on screen it's just a headcanon

Abigail

I know I'm late on this, but hopefully you are still reading older comments. To be honest I put off watching these last few episodes with you because I didn't want it to be done. COVID definitely screwed with their ending in terms of who wasn't there, and I assume you will watch some con footage where Jensen describes how the ending was supposed to go with a lot more people being involved. That said, COVID didn't cause them to write Dean's death, and I agree that he shouldn't have died like that. I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd actually be okay with them both dying since that's how Dean always said they'd go, but I would want it to be for something more. Like at least keep those two little boys in the room to remind us of what the sacrifice is for. I absolutely don't like that Sam had to live a whole life without his brother. I think they developed enough emotionally throughout the series that they could have had separate lives without the other being dead. That all said, for the ending we got my headcannon is that Sam worked as a professor at a college, married Eileen, and stayed a correspondent for the hunter world. His son had the anti-possession tattoo so we can interpret that as him being a hunter or him at least being aware of the world they live in. I like to think he's a hunter, against Sam's wishes, and maybe there will be a reboot 20 years from now exploring that dynamic. One final thought: the lack of Cas in this episode is the only unrequited part of this finale for me. I've seen it several times now, and I truly think that if Cas had been there I could have forgiven everything else. Thank you for actually reacting to all the episodes Shelley, I don't know if anyone else has actually done that. I am looking forward to the reactions to the rewatch, and just know we all appreciate the time and effort that goes into making these videos happen.

CrystalDeth

While I can understand this and that, restrictions, etc. it will never not feel so hollow to me. Character regression is a joke for a show that's been on this long with such a limited cast that relies on a brother relationship so I didn't care that they made jokes or emotionally empty montages. Dean being the sloppy guy who can't cook, loves pie, has an affinity for hybrid monster names, loves weird weapons, aggravating his little bro while also putting him above his own grief by saying moving forward is what they sacrificed for. This is essentially making Castiel a plot device that gave way to beating a villain via Jack who was already a plot device after 14. Then butcher the mainstay song playing it twice with a cover that makes me want to vomit and glossing over losing the only person outside of his brother that he loved truly (romantic/brotherly/whatever). Cas and Dean built a relationship when they both had such doubts shaken in their family, beliefs, helped each other emotionally and challenged each other. So they wasted all this time showing us goofy sides and then barely a reference to this person who sacrificed not only his angel status, heavenly family, his life too many times to count, as well as his son Jack when the world is evaporating all for just for a chance that Dean could see what he saw, believe in that and get every extra chance to live...to unimaginable darkness pissed me off. Yeah, season one...woohoo...dying bloody plan just so Sam can revert back to his college days or no...blurry wife, son he named Dean and just waiting to die to see his brother again is painfully throwing the past 15 years of this show in our faces. Party city wig, the world's weirdest impossible Winchester family photo and Dean's watch pointedly shown numerous times as he dies or whatever because Sam's current family isn't important enough HURTS everyone.

CrystalDeth

One of the saddest parts of this episode is thinking about how Dean's dog has no idea what happened to him. He's just gone one day and the dog has no idea why. It's devastating!