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in retrospect, idk why i always felt I needed to shy away from the whole Beastars-style “carnivores struggling with predatory urges in a literal way but also the cannibalism is a metaphor for sex” thing, cuz it kinda rules? A predator not understanding their overwhelming desire to consume and merge with the bodies of their “prey”? Katie wanting to eat Brooke, but maybe also EAT Brooke? Brooke maybe wanting to let her? Idk, it seems like an idea worth playing around with. >:3

Anyway, Katie gets exponentially scarier when she is physically or psychologically aroused, be it hungry or focused or horny or excited

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Madeleine McCoy

Oh thank god you came to this conclusion because yes Beastats fucks

acoraxia

I always thought of cannibalism as a form of obsession which, in turn, can be confused for love or be blurred between the lines of love. One might even say that... it's grotesque! Anyways, that IS a fun idea to play around with because then dynamics and the worldbuilding get a lot more interesting. Can't wait to see what you come up with 👀! also Katie you're scaring me and i don't know how to swim

Emily Lemur

One reason anyone may hesitate to lean into that concept is because it reinforces “this group of people are correct to hate/be afraid of another group of people”. But when it’s in such a multifaceted setting it can make for some really great story telling! I’m really excited at the idea that you’ve considered exploring it- especially the way we’re seeing it with Katie!

Gleeman and Artist

It's definitely an interesting idea and I love seeing animal worlds play around with it. Also Brooke and I can definitely handshake meme over that one.

lopoddity

Yes, I think I was worried about ending up with a bungled metaphor for racism, like Zootopia did. Then again, Beastars seems to have escaped this problem, possibly by making the predator metaphor way too vague to be interpreted in any single particular way (is it about racism? Sexism? Homophobia? Gender identity? Neurodivergence? Beastars can be about all that and more). Animals-as-people can be tricky because, as you said, fear of a carnivorous predatory is logical, but fear of a minority is illogical, so when mixed together it can have the unfortunate implication that there is a valid reason to fear minorities. Definitely something to stay mindful of as I play around with the idea.

Alex

Shit. That is so cool. Perfect dramatic facial change. Definitely, Beastars dynamic totally works 👌👌👌👌

Alight

That will definitely lend towards some interesting, gory, or morbid concepts right in time for the spook-fest, I personally see the eye difference as visually interesting but diagetically (however you spell that word) lackluster. We already know she has white sclera and giant irises, is my issue. I guess my other problem is that it seems her pupils constrict when, realistically, they should be dilating in excitement— but that wouldn’t grant the same fun aesthetics. Responding to the contemplation at your past adversity about it, I think it was to avoid granting tangible justification to sociopolitical rifts between predator and prey, so the racism was more blatantly just racism. Either makes for good stories, personally, and I imagine you’d do it well. I wonder if Casey’s brother’s crime-ex of a hyena might have some change in characterization from this. (I’m also now having some funny mental imagery of Perry chomping at his husband’s arm.) That having been said…. I’m curious if the implementation of cannibalistic impulses will be unilateral. Rabbits and rats eat their young, after all, and chickens are absolutely ravenous. No one talks about it, because horses are cutesy and “””herbivores”””, but I know for a fact that they eat raccoons when granted the opportunity (she said as someone whose job used to be cleaning up their messes). It also begs the question, since cannibalism would inevitably occur with some frequency when such impulses are so common, for diseases like Mad Cow disease exist given how seemingly genetically similar the fuzzbuts all are.

Robo87

*Everyone having a philosophical discussion on the sensuality of cannibalism* Me: IF SHES HUNGRY SHE CAN EAT ME PLZ!!!!!!!

lopoddity

Fair criticism. But personally, I feel I've been focused on "realism" for so long, it's made my work a bit stale. I've decided to experiment with Beastars-inspired "rule of cool" bullshit. In Beastar's, the predator character Riz abruptly spawns a completely different eye style when angry or aggressive, switching from cutesy teddy bear dot eyes to more humanoid ones. It's a pretty jarring change. Is it realistic, or even remotely anatomically plausible? Nope. Does it look cool and get you hyped for his fight with Legoshi? Yep! Katie's eyes SHOULD dilate, but that felt a bit too ah, Finding Nemo for me. Dramatically changing her eye style opens the door to more unnerving, humanoid expressions, which are pretty fun to draw. :3

Royce and Royce

I know I don’t need to worry about your care in portraying the conflicting ideals of “carnivores being actually dangerous to their prey” and “minorities are not evil and different” — it’s definitely a concern from things like Zootopia, as you mentioned, but you put SO much effort into making your world and characters realistic and nuanced. Besides Katie I’m definitely interested in seeing how this impacts characters like Lune and Victoria, since they were raised in essentially a deer cult; I bet they have some interesting perspectives based on that alone. Same with more carnivorous/omnivorous animal religious beliefs, like the church Merry runs!

Robo87

And honestly I’ve never watched Beastars (idk the animation freaks me out for some reason and drives the characters into uncanny valley territory for me lol) but I’ve heard a lot about it from a friend who loves it, and I’ve seen this dynamic played out in other media I think the predator/prey concept is interesting to a point, but I’ll be honest…sometimes I feel like it’s a slippery slope that can sometimes feel like a SA metaphor. “I didn’t mean to maul the bunny, my predatory instincts were just too strong”.

lopoddity

Actually! 🤓 Beastars consistently criticizes it's characters who insist their "urges" are to blame for their offenses. In season 2, a carnivore character kills and eats their herbivore friend, and doggedly pretends that he is a slave to his instincts, that there can be no rising above them, that predation is the only relationship possible between carnivores and herbivores. This belief is aggressively challenged by protagonist Legoshi, a wolf who fights and defeats the carnivore killer, shattering his delusion and forcing him to admit that the devouring was his own fault. Legoshi continues to defy his instincts by kicking the asses of other carnivores, and coming to love and protect Haru, the tiny female rabbit he was originally tempted to eat. I'm not saying Beastars is a flawless work, but I do think the main theme of it is that people are NOT defined by their instincts, and that it's our choices that make us who we are.

Robo87

Oh I like that a lot actually 😁

TheTabbyBadger

I'll be intrigued to see what you play with going forward with this! I bet a few dynamics might have some shaking up, like Sunny and Virgil may have a new dynamic (or not, but seems plausible). Or more issues for Cupcake and her very bite-sized parents. Beastars was fascinating and to me it was a little all over but it did have a lot of interesting ideas. I can see where the concern and hesitation would come from, but I love your characters and writing so I'm excited! ^_^

lopoddity

Aw thanks! It's so weird, cuz on one hand, I'm aware of the danger of presenting a valid reason for people to fear The Other (such as depicting minorities as carnivores among herbivores). On the other hand, I fucks heavily with media that use monsters to depict The Other, usually through an empathetic, humanizing lens (see: Shrek, Legoshi, Hellboy, etc). Idk, I just think it's neat, considering minorities across all spectrums are so often made to feel inhuman and freakish, so to depict The Other as a literal monster, then flip the script by revealing just how human the monster is- it makes for very compelling stories. Not sure if I'm making any sense? Anyway, I think the key thing is to exercise sensitivity and preserve the "monster's" humanity.

Lammergayier

Two Katie posts in a row oh I am Feasting

SmilesPerHour

I’m deathly afraid of sharks, but I’d still trust Katie in a pool/ocean. Even preds deserve friends. Btw, is Katie the personality type who is attracted to splashing and screaming, or would she approach other creatures in the water regardless?