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Firstly, thank you so much everyone for your support and feedback on my newest project! :D Boy, it’s wild building a whole new story setting from the ground up, rather than using a pre-established world as a sandbox. I’ve been doing some pondering about how the world of Fuzzbutts should work, and I’ve been examining other animal-people stories like Beastars, Bojack Horseman, Zootopia, Aggretsuko, etc. Each of these stories has their own approach to the questions that inevitably arise from a world of talking animals. I’m less sure myself about how Fuzzbutts will operate, please, I’d love to hear your feedback to the following questions:

1.) I’ve already established that land mammals are sapient. Should other species be sapient? Birds, reptiles, insects, amphibians? At first I thought “mammals only”, but I love all animals. What if I get inspired to make some cool snake lady at 3am? But making ALL animals sapient leads into a problem-

2.) ...Where does meat come from? If non-mammals are just regular animals, then Sunny finding a protein source is as easy as buying a bucket of fried chicken. But if one of his neighbors is a talking sapient chicken, then things get weird. Beastars had a hen character that proudly had her own eggs cooked into sandwiches for her unknowing classmates and hoo boy did that give me the willies. Zootopia never addresses the meat question, while in Aggretsuko and Bojack, both carnivores and herbivores are seen eating things like hot dogs, fish, and steak. I guess carnivores in Fuzzbutts could eat bugs or some sort of fake protein slurry, but idk, that feels like kind of a cop-out? What do??

3.) Should there be pets? I kinda like the idea of pets, but it always kinda bugged me that Mickey Mouse has both a pet dog (Pluto) and a dog friend (Goofy). You’re not gonna see Sunny walking a pet poodle or anything, that’s weird. Then again, if there are things like pet lizards or birds, what happens if one eats a small citizen like a mouse or gerbil?

I see now why most animal-people stories just plain don’t address these questions. XD

Comments

AsTheJayFlies

funny to look back on this in 2023 when you legit have 20 dog characters (canine friends and family add up big time)

Princess H. Petals Blossom

Yeah and unless its part of the focus like in beastars i don't see the point in focusing on it, maybe just say anythink with 2 legs is sapient and everything else is not?

Gleeman and Artist

A lot of the Zootopia fanfics I've read just have the preditors eat bugs. There are like bug patties in place of hamburgers and bug cereal. I don't really think going the bug route would be a cop-out because it's something animals already do in the wild. I don't think you could have bugs characters if you did decide to go that route, though. Personally, I would probably do research on evolution/adaptation if I was trying to decide between making a world with just mammals or mammals and reptiles. Like just thinking about how nature sort of changed and evolved might help. I think it depends on how serious you want your word to be, too. I feel like Bojack Horseman and Aggretsuko can get away with stuff like that cause they're comedies.

Doglover502

Maybe the pets are like fantasy animals like dragons and stuff (unless fantasy animals like that together don't exist here either). Or maybe fish that serve as meat and pets, like how there are pets like goldfish but we still eat stuff like salmon. They have literal shark pups as pets being tugged on by the leash XD

Robo87

I'm for all animals! Why not? I think the world building from different animal cultures would be fascinating to see, as well as how those cultures come together in melting pot cities. As for pets and meat....have you considered maybe doing fantasy-ish/Last Airbender hybrid animals to fill in those gaps? Like maybe creatures like jackalopes that resemble animals a little bit (the rabbit-people), are considered to be favorable finds for pets, and then there are creatures that have been selectively bred to be farm critters, suppliers of products and food just like our chickens and cows and so forth are for. This would separate them pretty firmly from the "animals" and avoid the whole "is that cow eating a cow" thing

TheHaywaiianHorse

Gosh that's a toughy. I read a comic once called Better Days by Jay Naylor and it featured sentient/ bipedal animal characters and on occasion had "feral" animals like dogs and cats and fish. It also had carnivore and herbivore characters eating meat like chicken and steak. I don't know what I'm getting at my saying this but in my opinion, I think animals like chicken, pigs, cows and fish shouldn't be sentient in storylines because it causes "conflicts" such as these. Or if like Beastars, have them be sentient but have them know of the world they love in; that meat is eaten and is essential for some creatures. Idk that's just me though. The bugs is a good option. Maybe specific farmers grow genetically modified bugs to make them bigger to sell at markets and such.

Scyllarus

General shrug. I would agree with the opinions above: if it's not important to the story, then...eh? Like with Zootopia, it's part of the story - predators are concerning because they have a history of eating prey animals. Same sort of thing with Beastars. Aggretsuko doesn't address any weird animal shit - Retsuko is just...a human in a red panda suit. Since you mentioned in a response that prey/predator relationships are seen as...weird, that implies that they're aware of the history and power dynamic. Of course, you could always change that, but if we're going to continue down that path...I would say it would be most interesting to have non-sentient versions of animals, because it would allow for the most diverse opinions for the cast. Otherwise...I like the suggestion that there are very obviously non-real animal hybrids that are used for meat and such.

owlcoholik

I never understand this question about animal stories, unless the meat/predation aspect is part of the story why not assume every animal just has a non-sapient feral counterpart? We have apes/monkeys in our world and people pretty much treat them like any other animal, even eating them or keeping them as pets.

SmilesPerHour

1. I'd be happy to see all kinds of animals living in this world! It offers some great variety in designs and experiences with characters. 2. My usual go-to is the Madagascar route, where the carnivores eat fish instead of bovine or poultry. So the mammals, reptiles and avians are sapient, but not the fish. 3. I'd say go with what feels right on pets. not everyone has to have a pet, but I don't see why a few animals could have a less-sapient pet companion.

Scyllarus

I would like to add that like...now I wanna ask how dog breeds came about, given that that implies domestication??? Which is. Uh. Also kind of weird.

lopoddity

Now that’s an issue I’m soundly going to ignore. ;) I figure if Zootopia can have domestic pigs and sheep, then I can have 200 different domesticated dog breeds. I just like dogs. Gonna have to actually be careful not to have too many characters be dogs. XD

Colbyr

Joke opinion on meat: there's one day a year in Fuzzbutts that's essentially the purge, but for hunting. All prey dig a hole and hide and pray to the gods while the predators go fucking feral and stock up for a year.

Taleph

I have no idea why, but I kind of thought about mushrooms. Maybe in this world, they could have different properties than the real ones and could be substituted for meat in carnivores' diet. They could escape few steps in evolution and wouldn't turn out to be so small, but, rather big, since around 420~350 million years ago on Earth there possibly were mushrooms that resembled humans in their size. They could be as big as an Oak in your story, fiction is made for fun after all. But, to create some sort of conflict, I thought that some of these fungi could have poisonous properties, that due to their size and quantity (since the society began to produce them massively) heavily affected the environment and some of the fluffbutts' lives and health. Although around 2℅ of fungi are poisonous (and a dozen are deadly) it could be different in your story. There could be some beastmen (sorry, don't know how to call them) that are vegetarian, and resist to consume mushrooms due to them having quite a bad influence before being processed and packed in nice little wraps in the supermarket. Omnivores and Carnivores would have to substitute their diet with maybe, genetically produced and multiplied meat... Tho it still would cause controversy, since this meat had to be taken from an animal, a citizen, a part of their now-cultured society... Eventually go with the second option completely, without asking where did this meat came from, it's a story about bipedal fluffbutts after all. Sorry for poor english. Always love your ideas Lop.

MEllegoo

One thing that I’ve always wondered about with this sort of anthropomorphic universe is... what do different species couples do? Personally not a fan of the hybrids idea because... well it just doesn’t seem logical enough even in a fictional world. Would they just have to adopt? Or one partner carry the child if they are able to?

Calypso

The fish idea could defs work, because then they could be pets too

Scyllarus

Here are my demands: everyone is now a dog. No explanation, only dog. (More seriously, I just feel like the pets/meat dynamic is just gonna have to depend on the story.)

lopoddity

If I know my online audience well (and I like to think I do), then I know I’m gonna get a million questions about meat and pets. I’ve already gotten some questions of that nature already. I think maybe, maybe I’ll have that any sapient character can be any animal (save for insects or fish?), while in addition there exist non-sapient small animals that exist as wildlife, pets, and a source of protein. Farms have domestic pigs and chickens, there are fisheries, people own birds and lizards as pets, and the city has a feral population of pigeons and possums. Though I think there won’t be any pet cats or dogs, that’s still just too weird for me. Like maybe there’s a reason humans never really attempted domesticating primates as pets or selling them for meat on a mass scale. The uncanny factor is definitely a thing, most people find it unnerving to eat something that resembles them.

owlcoholik

Monkeys were actually popular pets until modern times, even sold at city pet stores in America, i think we mostly don’t keep them now because we know how cruel it is, so only rich assholes who can get away with it do. I see a lot of art from non-western artists portraying anthro animals next to feral counterparts, I wonder if it has to do with the fact there are monkeys people regularly encounter in that part of the world so it’s more normal. But when people ask about what anthro animals do or don’t eat I think it’s interesting to keep in mind they could eat a variety of things like humans, and that could vary from culture which could be influenced by species. If you limit the food by introducing too much lore around the production of it you can’t use food for other purposes without muddying the message, like how you felt weird about the eggs in Beastars after they went into that. Food can be an important storytelling tool!! Literally the only reason Bojack got away with how WEIRD that chicken farm plotline was is that everyone forgot about it as soon as it happened because it was so out of step with the rest of the story. But I didn’t forget and I was literally waiting for it to come up for the rest of the show

RagingRiptide

I think smaller non poultry animals like chickens and fowl would work good for food, as well as fish and bugs :) I’m also curious, humans are also animals, do they exist in this world sorta like how they do in Bojack horseman, or is it more animal only esque like Beastarz and Zootopia?

PrincessMuffinArt

The thing about anthro stories for me is thst I don’t really think too hard about it because its all fictional and their world is different. Lots of anthro shows just basically do “animal over human body” which means they eat all the same foods because they don’t really treat them like thier animal counterparts. (Aggrestuko and Animal Crossing are great examples of it). I do that a lot when I make my animal characters (I also imply they don’t function the same way as normal animals).

Melody Williamson

I think they should just eat lab grown / cultured meat to sidestep having to go into huge sociopolitical issues involved with people eating each other. It would also make it less depressing (unless you want it to be sadder I guess lol) Also that way you can make any animal into a character. You can also just employee good ol' hand-wavium

Melody Williamson

Also they can have pets if you establish they are evolutionary cousins. The Goofy/Pluto dycodomy is like human/chimps. They're related but not on the same intelligence level. Since theres a sapient counterpart to like..everything in your world it wouldnt be as weird as irl with humans/chimps. Papermonkey on tumblr has a world of Raptor people who have smaller Raptor-dogs and raptor-cat pets and it's not weird because...raptors were everywhere in the cretaceous period.

PrincessMuffinArt

Gumball did a good idea and kind of did it like Pokemon where Nicole just had one of her babies be a blue cat, but with the father’s face shape, and the daughter be a bunny but with her mothers body type.

Emma the Bombastic CowboyClown

Have them eat fish and keep pet fish, they can eat bugs too. I think Beastars did that, had the carnivores eat fish and insects. I think one of the main characters even had a pet bug. It'd be like how we have: Tropical, inedible fish are often kept as pets. Sometimes people are insanely cool enough to keep edible fish (bass, bluegill, etc.) but still. I don't go eating my neocaridina shrimp but I will happily eat some cocktail shrimp I can't eat my isopods per say or feed them to my other animals but I am completely down to feed my frog some dubia roaches and superworms. Babies gotta eat, ya know? I'd say keep the birds and reptiles free to make characters from. Can you IMAGINE a Pandora based lizard character? Like a monitor lizard or something crazy?

lopoddity

I explained this on my last post with Bruce and the kangaroo, you can look there for a more detailed explanation. Basically any two animals can reproduce, so long as it's physically possible for them to mate/conceive (eg. a mouse can't hope to reproduce with a hippo). The offspring will always be the same species as one of the parents, never a hybrid, unless the parents happen to be animals that can create hybrid offspring. A dog/horse couple will produce either a pup or a foal. But a horse/donkey couple can produce a mule, a lion/tiger couple can produce a liger, and of course any two breeds of dog can produce a mixed-breed pup.

lopoddity

No humans, animals only. :) Honestly I might even avoid having great apes (especially chimpanzees), as they're too human-like.

lopoddity

Lab-grown meat is an interesting solution. :) I'd love to have lab-grown meat in real life and eliminate factory farming. I will definitely consider this option.

CutleNoodle

So this is something I've thought about because of a Discord server I'm in and the thing I always think is that there are sapient, bipedal versions of a species as well as feral versions. Like, let's say there's a cow anthro that's a farmer and they happen to tend to feral versions of cows that are meant to be killed for meat and milked for, well, milk. That's the way I always thought of it

cactus bastrop

i always go the bojack route with a twist--any animal can eat whatever, though for the sake of ~fun~ certain species may be more inclined diet-wise one way or another (ie; obligate carnivores eat more meat than herbivores, though both CAN eat whatever), and instead of bojack's terrifying "we also eat '''human''' chickens" route i just say there are feral animals too (shrug guy). granted, it seems your 'verse leans a littleeeee more into the "feral" category than my anthros usually do (like how you have size differences, bruce hops instead of walks, etc) so if that's not your thing i understand! also, regarding feral animal domestication, i am not 100% sure on this but i assume a large reason that humans didn't domesticate monkeys for meat production like we did cows/pigs etc is due to the disease transfer issues--we're more likely to have a monkey disease jump over to us than we are from a chicken or a goat, simply because we're more closely related. also, some animals are just "easier" to domesticate than others; there's a reason why we don't see a ton of obligate carnivores like cats being used as livestock for meat production--it's a helluva lot easier to fatten up your livestock by letting them graze endlessly and do their own thing than it is to continually supply an animal with meat. i'm sure there's also some biomechanical constraints in there (i imagine herbivores are able to put on weight quicker/more consistently than carnivores?) but i'd have to do some research on that. this is all a long way to say that we probably didn't domesticate monkeys as livestock due to disease and for whatever biological reason, they just "didn't work" for what early humans were looking for. i tend to think of my anthros as a completely different species from their feral counterparts because (handwaves) ~Reasons~, ie i don't want to think too hard about it because if i did i'd have to go sci-fi genetic modification route, and most of the time i just want my silly stories with talking animals. so for me, disease transfer from a pig furry eating pork isn't an issue, since they're totally different with just superficial similarities. most stories i see sidestep the uncanny valley squick of like, a cow rancher butchering feral cattle lol, by just.... not showing it and not addressing it. which works fine with me and is usually what i do lol

Moth

A sort of beastars route would be interesting. Carnivors used to be on top while herbivores were treated poorly / eaten until a sort of utopia formed in which they started getting more rights for herbivores, looking into meat alternatives / substitutes that carnivors could still thrive on.

FloweryFruitFangs

Ah yes, the "how weird/moral is it that we eat meat?" issue, lol. I feel your pain. I also agree with your sentiment about the whole anthro animals owning feral animals that look like their friends and neighbors thing, it's never NOT weird. I see that it's been mentioned earlier in this thread, but personally I'm also a fan of the idea of making the wildlife, livestock, and pets into entirely made up or mishmashed hybrids/species, so like basically going either a fantasy route or a sci-fi (maybe as far as speculative evolution?) route. I know you mentioned this setting was modern though, so when I use the word "fantasy" I mean more so, I dunno, like mixing a hippopotamus with a shoebill stork and simply showcasing that such a weird creature exists in this world, and then moving on lol. ATLA rules basically, except there are no dragons or unicorns. (I mean, unless you want to? Its your story and setting after all, I just figured that wasn't what you had in mind) (Oh, and apologies for editing/adding to this several hours later, I really shouldn't write down my thoughts when I'm half asleep and about to pass out lmao)

Non-Euclidean Cat

For meat, how about just fish and sea food. As for pets, perhaps something along the line a primitive version of the sapient races. Like in MLP where ponies have pets that are clearly sapient, but are non-verbal.

Volchara

Predators can buy meat on the black market.Or consume a lot of special food, the taste of which is similar to meat. The concept of pets is quite strange. A dog on two legs walks an ordinary stupid dog. Just imagine that a human walks a human who walks on all fours. This is strange. At the same time, I can't imagine a world without stupid animals. I think it isnt necessary to endow all animals with intelligence.

Lappazol

You could go the khajiit route and just have anthro animals and feral animals existing side by side, but sometimes the feral ones are sapient and like being pampered and/or causing apex predator problems

Melody Williamson

Thanks! And I agree I wish the technology was ready for the public and common - hopefully soon. If you choose the route I and many other people mentioned where theres feral/human versions of every animal you could have the original cells for the lab meat gathered from feral animals and not the people ones so it's not weird.

DragonCookies

I'm with the folks who think sapient and non-sapient animals could exist in the same universe. I don't think I'd personally go with stuff like anthro cows raising feral cows for meat, but I could see things like birds, fish and insects being primary protein sources. Like for birds, maybe non-sapient domesticated chickens or turkeys are used as food, while only wild species of birds are the anthro ones. The possibility of pets is a tricky one too, especially since we're assuming small rodent mammals will also be sapient, which means a lot of meat-eating birds and reptiles could be out of the question. I do like the idea of bugs and fishing being pets though, both are very cool critters and could make for good pets

Lex

There could be regular non-sapient animals living alongside sapient people-animals. Like, there are anthro chickens who talk and have jobs and stuff, and regular "less evolved" chickens who are kept and raised as livestock, maybe? And they would be to the anthro animals what monkeys and apes are to humans. Related, but not on the same "level".

Lory

Beastars has all animals as sapient, even insects to a certain degree, but they’ve outlawed the consumption of meat entirely, and instead eat protein substitutes. There are also eggs (sapient chickens lay and sell them), which feed carnivore students. This definitely gives you the most freedom with animals you can use. ^^ The only pets I’ve seen in Beastars we’re insects. It could also be like Bojack or Tuca abd Bertie where the rules aren’t consistent and there are sometimes just sapient and non-sapient animals. Could definitely combine the two. I could see sentient animals raising “lesser” forms like pet dogs and cats. Only one strain evolved to be sapient, while other species stayed animals. Not at all different from humans and their relationship with animals.

Vio_dacreator

For Zootopia I remember them mentioning insects. Maynlbe they have large ass overgrown domesticated instects for pets and food

Doglover502

I know this is like super in the past, but I just got an idea related to this (though admittedly, kinda...a lot fucked up) What if there were like a family of predators that sold dead animals to other predators on the downlow? Like they have a front as a crematorium but they're actually giving the families random ashes and selling/freezing the dead bodies as fresh meat? And it is absolutely extremely seedy and illegal, but it is a fresh cut. Cause it technically isn't killing a citizen if they're already dead