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What would a mother not do for her childWhat lengths would a mother not goThere’s a bond that exists between mother and childAh, but then againHow would you know?

Olivia Fischer has been a lifelong businesswoman, but when Perry is a young teenager, she gains some limited success as a singer. Liv has a beautiful singing voice and has dreamed of fame since childhood, so she becomes very volatile during this period. Her path to Broadway is still in its delicate fledgling days, and she not about to let anything jeopardize it, least of all her impudent, irritating, perpetually needy child. This is the part of Perry’s life when he learned his mother was so much more terrifying than he could have ever imagined. A fun fact about Liv is that she never uses pet names (sweetheart, darling, dear), unless she means you great suffering.

I imagine Liv’s singing voice sounds a lot like Christine Ebersole (White Diamond from Steven Universe). Following this scene she goes on stage and announces she’d like to dedicate her song to her precious daughter, who’s sitting in the audience nervously smiling under the spotlight. She then gives a performance of After All so tender and beautiful that Perry is left awestruck, blinking back tears. There are two sides to Liv- artistry and contempt- and Perry discovers he’d much rather stay on one side than the other.

EDIT: added another drawing. Here Liv is performing Hard To Say Goodbye. No matter how his feelings toward his mother change, Perry always gets emotional when he hears his mother sing, even as an adult.

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Comments

Harmony

Poor perry

Bigsmile

Holy shit...... Liv is kind of a jerk.... Why can't all parents be like Cupcake's? EDIT: How's Liv's singing career panning out?

Gleeman and Artist

Oof I really feel for Perry here. No wonder he drinks when his mom is around.

Melody Williamson

I feel like she'd enter her child into beauty pagents against their will

lopoddity

Ehh. Alas, she never gains success beyond small, local theatre. Something about her being “hard to work with”.

lopoddity

Oh, no, no, no. Missy is our cast’s crazy pageant mom. Liv finds child pageants low class, and wouldn’t bother entering her graceless oaf of a child in them anyway.

Rice_inthevoid

Wake up babe problematic milf is problematicing

Lammergayier

Okay legitimate question. Prefacing this with the disclaimer that I am by no means trying to victim-blame Perry as I am Also a transmasc person who has very complicated feelings towards their own mother, and as a result I relate very heavily to this post. But why hasn't Perry cut Liv out of his life entirely? He Is a full-grown adult with the ability to do so if he wanted. Does he still think that she's capable of change despite her really not showing any signs of doing so, or are there other reasons? I'm very intrigued by dynamics like these in fiction

Must Love Frogs

Naw, I get it though. The relationship between parent and child is the most primal psychic bond that exists. Even if it's pure poison, we often try to hang on.

lopoddity

By the time Perry is an adult and married to Tibbs, he has indeed reduced contact with Liv to an absolute minimum. But he can’t ever seem to shut the door on her entirely, because Liv is his mother. She is his only living parent, and close to the last piece of blood family he has. Despite everything, however stupidly, he still loves her. He wants her to be proud of him. He knows from experience that Liv at least has the CAPACITY to be loving (see the above scene where she is crooning at Perry- those sweet public serenades were not a one-time thing). Perry tries to see the best in people, he’s still holding out hope that Liv might somehow, miraculously shapeshift someday into the kind mother he’s always wanted. He’ll stand up for himself when he needs to, and he is absolutely 100% aware of Liv’s faults, but a part of him will always be that awestruck child listening to his mother’s song and feeling truly, genuinely loved by her for the very first time. Perry does not want that feeling to turn out to have been a lie. Tibbs hates Liv so, SO much, but remains supportive of whatever decision Perry makes (to an extent- it was him who first suggested Perry start distancing himself from Liv).

lopoddity

Exactly. :3 Have a horrible mom, or cut her out and have no mom at all? I’m reminded of that study, unethical as it was, where infant monkeys were offered the choice between fake mothers. One “mother” was made of cloth, but contained no food. The other was made of wire, but was fixed with a bottle where the baby could nurse. Would the monkey choose food, or comfort? The cloth mother consistently won, of course. We seek what is familiar and comforting, even if there’s no real sustenance there to be found. Even if we’ll starve waiting. Perry prefers Liv and her glaring faults over a life without her.

Lammergayier

Augh yeah gotcha. That's about what I was expecting and it's ever so painfully relatable. But also comforting to see that I'm not the only one whose ever felt this way. ;v; thank you for all that you do Lop. I've been following your work for nearly a decade now and it's always made me feel understood and comforted

Bigsmile

Thats........ Good? 🤷‍♂️

Bigsmile

Ha! Eat shit shit eater 🖕No success for jerks allowed

Bigsmile

Holy shit, it's been nearing a decade for me too. Christ I'm old

lopoddity

Thank you so much! <3 I try really hard to tell stories that are important to me. I have troubled relationships with both my parents, and it’s really rare to find stories that explore how complicated and messy that can be. It means a lot that my stuff resonates with other people.

Jay Martinez

What was happening before this exact scene took place?

lopoddity

To Liv, this is potentially the most important night of her life- the night she finally gets discovered! To Perry, this is just his overdressed mom showing up to sing at a sparsely attended community theatre show. He’s not giving the event the importance and grandiosity Liv feels it deserves- whining to go home, dragging his feet putting on the sparkly dress Liv picked out for him, bringing her a lukewarm cup of coffee and generally not tripping over himself to wait on her hand and foot- Liv feels disrespected. Considering it’s Perry’s “fault” she had to put her singing dreams on hold to raise him and singlehandedly hold her joyless marriage together, she has a pretty low tolerance for disrespect tonight. Perry’s lucky they were interrupted, because Liv honestly might’ve slapped him across the face for being such an impudent, ungrateful brat on Mommy’s big night.

Corinne Stephenson

The fact that her claws are still sinking into Perry's arm when she's acting saccharine to someone else. God, I hate this woman.

LionPrideProductions

She's terrifying. my gosh. I totally understand where Perry is at though, terrified of his Mother, but still wanting the words of her son to be the truth. I feel it's a similar relationship to what Bojack horseman had to his mother. (Totally psychoanalyzing here) After distancing himself from such a toxic relationship, Perry most likely gets emotional when he hears her sing(Or hears songs associated with her) because he would like to believe that deep down his mother really does mean the things she sings, and that they are directed to how she truly feels about him. He just wanted to be loved. He didn't ask to be born into such a hostile environment. Poor kid.

Curio Blue

I have a genuine question! Does Liv feel any love towards Perry at all? Or did she simply tolerate him long enough for him to turn 18 and high-tail it out of the toxic environment he was born in to?

Dean

Okay this is totally unrelated to this but i just woke up and I had a dream that you lived in my microwave 😭

Scyllarus

Oof. I definitely relate to Perry's experience here, I don't have the best relationship with my mother either. I even ended up "successful" as far as my parents are concerned, but there's always something new to criticize or compete over - so in some ways I get not being able to let go because you're hoping they'll come around, but also, from experience they never come around. Very simply, you'll never be able to fix yourself up enough to meet their standards...because the problem isn't really you, it's them. You're just a safe target for all their frustrations with how their life turned out. That being said, now I'm curious about Perry's dad! I saw you mentioned that Liv is holding her loveless marriage together - where's Dad in this picture? Is he more supportive of his son, or is he also in denial about...well, everything? ...Was Perry an unwanted pregnancy or? It occurs to me that Liv seems to resent him for taking away her future, which isn't typical of planned pregnancies - but tbh, he simply might not have been the child she wanted.

Corinne Stephenson

I remember previously it was stated that Perry's father died when he was 10. So whatever dissatisfaction Liv had in the marriage probably only got worse after Felix's death. How dare he leave her behind to take care of his unruly and ungrateful brat!

lopoddity

I’m so glad you asked this question. Love is a very nebulous, subjective idea, so I didn’t know how to answer. You’ve prompted me to do some reading! :3 First, it’s important for us to define what love is. I’m fond of bell hooks’ musings on the subject. Her definition of love is to be ultimately invested in the spiritual or inner growth of someone's soul, not just to care about them physically or feel strong emotions about them (cathexis). Love by her definition, cannot coexist with or permit abuse. So. Liv would certainly argue that she loves Perry and wants what’s best for him. She feels very, very strongly about him. She invested a lot of time into keeping him alive, fed, clothed, and reasonably comfortable. Though she’d never admit it aloud, Perry is the strongest, most meaningful relationship in her life. Is this love? No. Liv does not love Perry because she doesn't know what love is. She has never experienced real love herself, and does not know how to extend it to others. She “loves” to the best of her ability, but her version of love is actually abuse. Liv thinks that a child’s role is to have no will of their own, no boundaries, no autonomy- to simply exist as an extension of their parent’s ego. In her eyes, parents exist as the ultimate authority in a child’s life, a sort of “god”, and it is the child’s job to earn their parent’s love through rigid obedience and conformity. Liv’s “love” for Perry is controlling, jealous, possessive, coercive, and demanding of his respect (fear). Liv is a narcissistic abuser, but her actions are not abuse in her eyes. She views her child as defiant and disrespectful (because he is his own person), and thus sees it as her duty to “correct” him (through yelling, insults, humiliation, shaming, and sometimes physical abuse). So no, Liv does not love Perry, not truly. She does not feel warmth or compassion toward him, she does not delight in him, she is not invested in his growth as a person. Much of this is owed to the fact that Liv never really wanted to be a mother and only became one because she felt it was expected of her, so she resents Perry for stealing her freedom and youth. But the main thing is that Liv was raised by parents exactly as controlling and monstrous as she herself is, so love is simply a foreign idea to her. She can simulate what she believes love to be, but it’s not real. She doesn’t love Perry because she doesn’t know how to. Liv does not even know how to love herself.

lopoddity

I mean with the cost of living going up every day I just might end up in living in a microwave

lopoddity

I haven’t gotten into Perry’s dad yet, but I hope when you meet him it’ll shed a little light on why Liv is…the way that she is. Perry’s father is dead, he died when Perry was 10. His name was Felix, and he was an accomplished poet and playwright. Despite his success, Felix struggled throughout his life with depression and substance abuse, as well as being a closeted queer man. He put off getting married for quite a long time, but ultimately settled down with Olivia, a well-mannered, talented, high society girl around 14 years his junior. He does this because he feels it’s expected of him. Olivia is deeply infatuated with Felix’s work, and with Felix himself- handsome, brooding, mysterious man that he is. While Liv quite likes the idea of being a wealthy poet’s wife, she’s ambivalent about motherhood. The idea makes her feel trapped. Still, she knows it’s expected of her, and maybe a part of her believed it would bring her closer to her husband, who had already begun to grow distant and cold since their wedding. So she gives birth to Perry, a warm, precious ball of fuzz. She doesn’t….feel the way she thought she would. There is no instant, instinctual connection to her child. In fact, her baby, while fun enough to dress up like a doll and show off to her friends, is mostly a messy, horribly needy thing that won’t stop demanding her time and energy. Felix pulls away from her and spends most of his time in his study. He says he needs quiet to work, and that means he must stay well away from Liv and their screeching infant. He says her body has changed now, his attraction to her has waned. Liv is crushed. She’s alone. And she begins to grow resentful. Liv and Felix begin to fight. The pretense of being a loving couple falls away, soon they only have contempt for each other, viewing both their marriage and their child as a cage they’ve unwittingly built around themselves. Felix retreats further into his work to escape his family, and Liv hates him for it. Hates that he has the option, while she’s stuck with this child she never wanted, forced to out her own dreams on hold. Felix avoids Perry, partly out of resentment, partly out of shame. Felix’s relationship with masculinity is marred by shame and self-loathing, he feels he cannot ever truly be a good man, a good husband, and a good father. So he doesn’t try. To Perry, his father was always an elusive ghost hiding deep in the bowels of their home. Perry felt curiosity toward him, but also unease, and a bit of fear. As an adult, the most he can recall about his father is his indifferent stare, and a creeping sense of sorrow- a stern voice telling him to “run along now”, a hand reaching out to stiffly adjust his flower headband before Liv’s big dinner party. He dies of an overdose when Perry is 10, and Perry doesn’t know what he’s supposed to feel.

Bigsmile

Holy shit...... That's a lot..... I'm gonna remember that definition for sure, christ that's grim.

Gleeman and Artist

Man you always manage to make me feel bad for characters like Liv or Honey. Not that I'm excusing their behavior. You're just really good at writing characters.

thatbaldartist

God, the one claw left dug into Perry's arm as he talks to Claudette speaks so loudly. Such a small yet powerful detail. Your art never fails to amaze and inspire me :))

AsTheJayFlies

RIGHT lops characters are all so well rounded and complex, they really feel like. people. fuzzy as they may be, they are all incredibly painfully human

Marion

The way you describe Liv's vision of "love" and the grudge she holds again Perry for just being born, being a disappointment and being is own person sounds scarily similar to Beatrice Horseman resentment towards her son Bojack from Bojack Horseman. Thankfully, Perry is a much better person than Bojack.