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Just Rolled With It | RIPTIDE #115 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-12-23 01:06:34
Imported:
2026-06
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THE COUNCIL DISCUSSES EP 115 OF RIPTIDE.

Comments

Meapyboy1234567

wooooooo congrats on that final chapter Grizzly. It was one of the chapters of all time. Wow took them 7 minutes to talk about the episode

mimi

ok slay

Trintin Chick

Oh boy I'm just puckering to hear this Rolled

Mac

I stand with Condi, I cut my hand trying to open an orange with a plastic knife once

tidalwisp

the "what!" at like 8:10 or whatever is crazy

eepy

i do think that maybe the plant in lizzie's crew is a doppelganger,,,

tidalwisp

what if there wasn't a traitor and riptide didn't end and everything was fine

Slick

I think you guys should make some more Just Roll what if’s, they are some of my favorite one-offs and they would help fill the void left by Riptide.

Space

maybe im crazy but i think a member of lizzie's crew we dont really know being the traitor would be a good story beat. its been noted time and time again that this world is so expansive and the people in it arent just tied to our main cast and more or less have free will. it doesnt even need to be a big reveal but idk. maybe i just dont want caspian to be the traitor or i'll cry as for things to fill the hiatus void,,,, im someone who has binged each campaign and one-shot so ive just been rewatching content to fill the inbetween weeks void already and really just love whatever yall put out but i wont lie i personally just love the just rolleds because its like a debrief or straight up just shooting the shit for like 20 minutes lmao. idk have people make diary posts thatd be funny

Space

nvm i thought about in-character journal posts and got really attached please please please pl-

Fright Knight

To fill the gap, id just enjoy a regular podcast

tyrannicalTerror

Caspian is so definitely the mole. He's so insanely chill and cool and helpful with no expectation of anything in return. He's definitely gonna be the mole and I'm definitely gonna cry. Anyways, if Grizzly posts the rest of Dark Puckered Hole, I'm going to lovingly and careful print it out and bind it into an actual, physical, hardcover book with a nicely decorated leather cover. I am saying this to be funny, but I would not go as far as to say I'm joking because I will genuinely do this if I can get my hands on that fish smut.

Loaf Of Bread

Ever since we found out about the Navy plant on Lizzie's ship, I have thought it was Rudith. My reasoning for this is, in Joaldo Rudith would've known when alot of pirates were there and he worked at some kind of infirmary I believe. Which would be the best place to gather information on pirates. Having a plant already on Joaldo would be useful for navy because it wasn't Navy soil, so with an insider they could get info on what's happening so easily/quickly. Also why has Rudith stayed with Lizzie this long? He could easily have stayed at All-Port and gotten a job at some kind of hospital or infirmary. However he has stayed with Lizzie's crew for no apparent reason. We don't know anything about Rudith other than him being from Joaldo. I don't trust Rudith so therefore I think it's Rudith.

Nat

9th of February, 2021 “JUST ROLLED WITH IT: Discussing Resurgence One-Shot Ep. 1 and 2” Timestamp: 0:00 Charlie: “Hey everyone, welcome to the first episode of just rolled with it! Where we talk about the show, after the show!”

Nat

Charlie was the first to say it in the first official rolled therefore he obviously created it. Homework done do I get a sticker.

Ella Greenwood

Loved that ep and the rolled Here is some stuff I think would be chill to fill in the gap 1. Just a regular podcast 2. More just roll what if’s 3. Character journal entry’s could be fun (especially pretzel) 4. A murder mystery one-shot (I made one and it was so fun) 5. A mini series kinda like apotheosis where it’s supposed to end in a certain amount of episodes but still really entertaining and enjoyable 6. More funny music 🤷‍♀️ All of these would be really enjoyable but honestly whatever your team puts out will most likely be very entertaining anyway so just do what makes you happy 👍 Have a great hiatus everyone and happy holidays to all

Gallium

You could bring the council back, or any vids of just the four of you talking about random stuff. Sometimes I speedrun eps just to listen to the rolleds, because y’all are so funny when you’re talking about random stuff and stories.

Baka7

I’m absolutely positive the mole is Rudith, and that’s only because iirc he was the one operating the hideout Lizzie and the crew stayed at back on Joaldo Island, an island that happened to get attacked by the Navy, and an attack Rudith just so happened to escape (on Lizzie’s ship.) The only other possibility I could see it being is John, and that’s not because I’d think he’s ever turn on Lizzie, but because I think it would make the most sense for a top secret black ops unit to be found deep inside The Block while Jayson is visiting, and I feel like whatever the doppelgängers are made of might have an easier time copying Navy personnel than anyone else. However the only hang-up I’ve got here is the fact I recall them only just barely passing the roll to spot him in the snow in the first place.

Bean_HAWK404

Tbh…. I thought it was a pen too…

JuggerNutts

I love to think of Dugan as just a monolithic sized Gyarados, I literally don't see him as anything else when you guys bring him up

Gunkymunkyspunk

I second this theory. Rudith is the person with the weakest bond to the crew (that we’ve met). He referred to himself as a “friend” of Lizzie (“Call it a favor for friends” - some episode I forgot which one) although the basis of their friendship was never established. He also seems to have the simplest ambitions: I believe his dream was to be a doctor for a small town/village, serving the community. To me, when he was first introduced, he seemed to just be strung along for the ride without any personal desire to be a pirate. Passion can be hard to fake, and Rudith seemed to have the least passion for pirating. I think it just makes to much sense to not consider the possibility that it’s him. It’s also hard to justify anybody else being a mole as Lizzie, John, and Caspian all have some conflicting evidence.

Gunkymunkyspunk

I like character journal entries, that’s a fun idea!

Dr. Coconut 1245

I really want to see a just roll what if? of the axolotl versions of everyone doing some sort of one shot, i have no idea what it could be about but it would be fun.

roman

I need grizzly to know that the 114 episode intro was the funniest shit I've ever heard, especially as I was waiting for the premier of this serious scary episode, worried that something fucked up is gonna happen to these characters I love, and the first thing I hear is fucking "shadow cleric yaoi gang"

Eelt

Okay, so from what I can tell, just like someone above me said, Charlie was the first to use the phrase "the show after the show" in the rolled for resurgence. BUT, Bizly was the first to use the full phrase "Welcome to just rolled with it, the show after the show where we talk about the show" so maybe Bizly made the full phrase and Charlie just invented "show after the show"

Bea

they already did a murder-mystery one shot not too long ago

Effie Trinket

not to jump onto everyone else's suggestions but I adored the council episodes and I go back to watch them all the time so i'd love it if during the break this became just a regular podcast where you guys talk about random shit

MSPaintWitch

Maybe we could get some just roll what ifs or some one shots during the 6 month break. Maybe a Riptide special that goes into one characters past like the one where Chip and Jay meet for the first time.

Ella Greenwood

Who’s to say they can’t do another one in six months?

Perseasis

you need a gold star

Ace Hutson

Some just rolls what if, I’m also very interested in what the time loop campaign condi was thinking about was gonna be.

Ace Hutson

Thus has nothing to do with your statement, but what does the ghost’s eyes on your pfp only glow white when the white stripe is behind it

Avundius Aaablya

so what im hearing is we're getting a Jay solo sesh!! in like 6 months!! hype

rynzii_jubilee

if caspian is the mole im genuinely never recovering

Bacchu!

Lesbians can just do that in case you don’t know

Bacchu!

I agree though I love The Council I relisten to that every few months or so

Yasha

WHAT WAS THE THIRD WISH?!?!?!? I DON'T NEED SLEEP I NEED ANSWERS

eebee

Not necessarily the mole or anything but just a thought and idk if anyone else has said this, but we haven’t heard from Edyn in a while. And there was triton skin in the stronghold…

Pandora

When they release the riptide dice they need to make the d4 more likely to a 2

Pandora

RIP Condi’s hand

azu

the council keeps talking about how the break is to get the rest of the campaign written for a satisfying ending does this mean riptide will be ending relatively shortly after the break ends if yes i will cry if no i am crying after riptide115 so im crying either way

Nothing

Bro I'm all here for the $100 tier smut fanfic

Effie Trinket

yeah dude it's part of my skill set. as a lesbian, my eyes glow white when I begin to power up

Krow

Genuinely theory: the mole is probably Caspian, but my gut tells me that it might be Edyn

Grrafe

Alrighty, theory time. The big thing I'm gonna say now, especially since it's been mentioned as a possibility, I'm gonna ignore the Black Ops. I think there's a chance they're involved in this, in some way, but frankly they bring in too much variability to get any solid theories going. So, to start off, Rudoth (is that how his name is spelled?). I don't think it's him. We have very little information regarding him, other than he is a medic of some kind. That being said, him working on an island full of pirates, who battle in a coliseum every year, with the guy running the coliseum being a sellout himself does not give him much credibility. But, frankly, from what we've seen, he's been very caring and attentative to his patients, and displays little care for anything outside of medicine. It's possible he actually spies in secrecy, but I find myself doubting it since we've had no hints towards him being anything other than a doctor. It also doesn't help he's only been brought up a couple of times in the campaign, so much so I didn't even realize he was still on the Midnight Rose. From my perspective, it wouldn't be satisfying narratively if he was the mole. He's just been so far away from the story for such a long time I really can't think it's him. And, tbh, I kinda vibe with the idea he's just a dude trying to help people in need. Next up, John. I think all of our minds immediately went to John upon hearing there was a spy on Lizzie's ship, which, frankly, is fair. John having previously been in the Navy puts him up there for being a mole. His previous role within it, while by all means a smaller role, still leaves him on the chopping block. Speaking of the chopping block, let's talk about the Block. I highly doubt with John being taken to the Block, he could be the mole, like Condi said. There was no way the Navy could've anticipated anyone could have saved him, especially since there shouldn't have been a way out in the first place. At the very least, John was a trap, not a spy. And frankly, no one would've ever approached that man about being a spy. Ever. Because; 1. The moment anyone made a joke about his past he'd immediately blow his cover. Dude cannot keep a lie. 2. He's an idiot. If not someone making fun of his past, he would accidentally say it himself. 3. Dude is the loudest mother fucker ever. There is zero way he could sneak away from the ship and not be noticed or be able to keep people from following him. All of this is to say he is not spy material. He was a great soilder, a great Marshal (maybe?), but he wasn't designed for undercover work. Now we get to Lizzie. First of all, nope. The biggest issue is that she started the crew. From what I can tell, the reason why these spies can't start their own crews is because it goes against what the Navy believes/is about, and because if a captain were to get their own crew captured, there could potentially arise some suspicion from other crews. Also, being the captain, while being a good source of information, also means you have to take action and that all eyes are on you. I don't imagine the Navy likes the idea of their own recruits being killed because of the orders of another recruit. It just doesn't make a ton of sense to make your spy a captain. Not to mention, out of everyone on that ship, Lizzie has the least reason to ever want to work with the Navy, considering they killed Ava. It also wouldn't make sense for her to go out of her way to be cautious of Jay earlier on, as that would potentially out another spy, which I imagine would go against policy. And this is cemented by the fact she went out of her way to threaten Jay when she was on her own during the bathroom scene during the Collesium arc. The last caught on the hook, is of course our dear Caspian. And oh God. Frankly, we don't know a whole lot about him. We know he's from the Undersea, he has a sister in the capital, he roamed around the sea as a nomad for a while, somehow ended up on Black Beard's ship alongside Lizzie, and somehow ended up with Destiny's Blade at one point. And with these ideas, there's no real way you can say he is the spy... is what I would say if I wasn't a mad-lad at putting random ideas together. And, the combination I found myself with just last night, makes him the most likely candidate for being a spy in my eyes. I'm gonna start with the loosest ideas first. Caspian is 100% the kind of guy to be a secret spy. I mean, come on. Dude has got insane charisma, is incredibly smart, and has the abilities to back himself up (referring to him having magic). He could talk himself out of being suspected so easily, especially having been so close with Lizzie for as long as he has. But let me ask a simple question; what if the Midnight Rose isn't the first crew he's spied on? I'm dead serious. Let's put together some information we just received this episode. We just learned the artificial leviathan was being built under the sea for room reasons. Having it anywhere else would leave it easy to find by pirates/ordinary people. It also helps that people in the Undersea don't seem to leave their cities so easily due to safety concerns. It's the safest and most efficient way of building a death machine for them. But, we look back at Caspian. What was Caspian when he was younger? A nomad. Someone who wandered the sea, alongside a group of fellow nomads. Wherever the current took them, most likely. How likely is it that his group ran into the Navy building the artificial leviathan? How likely is it that he made contact with the Navy, in this idea? Much more likely than it should be. And, events could've played out several ways depending on how you look at it, so I'm not gonna get into anything specific for what happens here. But, since this is a top secret operation, he's also likely to run into someone higher up the chain of command. Someone who could recruit him, for one reason or another. And considering all the traits we've seen in him, I think it's definitely possible someone higher up took a chance on him (or there could be blackmail involved somehow), and recruited him to be a spy. And frankly, someone from the Undersea is the best person to have being your spy in this world. It makes sense both in the world and narratively. This is because of the fact the Undersea is not very well known by anyone not from it, it leaves a sense of mysterious-ness to both its culture and people. And that gives Caspian a perfect cover. He can lie about nearly anything and the odds of anyone being able to dispute it are very limited, considering how few ever venture to the surface. And since no one knows of the Navy making contact with the Undersea aside from the Riptide pirates (only because of Gillion btw), the odds of anyone in universe suspecting Caspian of being a spy are so incredibly low. And onto the narratively part, Gillion did a lot of damage to how we see the Undersea from early on. At least for me, when I was watching from the start, I assumed the Undersea was a place which held up honor, and took things very literally. Which. Was really only a Gillion thing, being raised in the castle. Gillion comes off as an idiot, and at the beginning, as completely unknowledgeable, which, for me, definitely rubbed off somewhat on Caspian. I recognized he was smart and all, but there's a little bit of Gillion that rubs off onto our perception of the Undersea and it's residents, which definitely alters our view on how we perceived characters/ideas from it. And this idea extends to the characters in the world as well. Gil basically represents all of the Undersea for a lot of people since he's the only person they've ever likely seen from it. And if Caspian lets Gil feed people the wrong information, it yet again creates another layer of protection for Caspian. And so, I think the first ship Caspian spied on was Black Beard's. And oh God, that would be terrifying. Because that would mean he was likely reporting everything about Lizzie and Ava to the Navy. Which. Yeah. Fucked up... and terrifying to think about. I think all of this being said, for how much I've made him seem like a mastermind, I think he does care for Lizzie and the people around him. He may be in a similar case to what Jay was in, where he loves these people and views them as friends, but also is a spy. But somehow, someway, he hasn't quit. The reason why is unsure. At this point, I'd like to say this is just a theory. I don't expect this to be right, but I know at the same time there's a chance it could be. Also, I'd like to address the idea that Edyn is the spy; probably not. I think she's her own entity entirely. The work she does is likely to ensure a better world for Gillion, and Gillion alone. I think she finds herself feeling responsible for him and keeping him safe since no one else in his life ever did. And I have a feeling she obsesses over that. So much so, she's likely put herself in a silent war to dismantle it from the inside. At least that's my theory. A GAME THEORY. This took like. Two hours to type out. I'm not making a conclusion paragraph. Fuck that shit I'm brain dead.

Grrafe

Dude reading this back I feel like I missed so many different points LMAO, but unless someone asks or points something out, I'm not gonna elaborate. But yeah, Caspian being the traitor would go fucking crazy.

Vyrion-157

I think John isn’t the Mole because we read his diary, and there was presumably nothing suspicious. I feel like if he was a plant, there might’ve been a clue

Grrafe

I JUST REMEMBERED A POINT I MISSED; Putting someone like Caspian as a spy on Black Beard's ship is like, the best move. Being from the Undersea, no one would ever suspect him of being a spy. Of course, this idea has some faults, mainly due to the fact we don't know a lot about Caspian or the circumstances of how he got onto that ship in the first place. But anyhow. I'm going to bed. Shit is melting my brain the longer I think about it.

Grrafe

Genuinely so real, this shit is so entertaining.

Grrafe

You see, the idea that he's connected pretty weakly to the crew is what makes me think he isn't the mole. If he was the mole, it would make more sense to get himself more involved in the business of the crew, to get more friendly with them. That would mean they'd likely have a harder time calling him out on being a mole and would make collecting information way easier compared to what he does normally; stay cooped up trying to help out the sick. Like, if he was, it'd be so easy to call out. We've seen Jay's method of protecting her status, and that worked so well. Wouldn't make sense to give yourself a weak defense if there ever was a suspected mole.

Grrafe

Dude, genuinely, if John psyched people out of reading the log book by putting cringy poems in the first and last pages of the books just to keep people from thinking it contains anything important then he wins. Like. I'll never recover.

Grrafe

No, it won't. Keep in mind Grizz has been saying for a while now he wants to take this campaign to level 20, which on it's own means there will be a lot more. We have a lot of areas that haven't been explored yet (literally an entire sea hasn't been even touched), we have a lot of plots that haven't been resolved (goo man that makes people like better or some shit), and Grizz has remarked (something along these lines) that the Hole/Black Sea is where Chip's arc really begins/hits it off. The reason they're going on break is to make Riptide's story, sessions, and arcs better quality, more fleshed out, and for Grizz to give himself an easier time planning sessions. We've got a ton of time left with our favorite pirates :D

Vestite

hoping for some more just roll what ifs in the break lmao

Faith's Eden

I think it’s Caspian and I have more reasoning than just meta knowledge. One, Caspian is from the Undersea. This is not common. We have learned that people in the sea usually stay in the sea. So this is automatically odd. But we have seen a place where it’s been hinted that there have been multiple undersea residents. And it was very recent. In the previous episode, they went to the navy base and Grizzly said it looked like it had been used recently. Like it wasn’t actually abandoned. And the only other humanoids we saw in there were a triton prisoner and dopplegilly. Do you see where I’m going with this? Caspian was cloned. The Navy have kidnapped multiple tritons and cloned them as either plants or just to get a leg up in the upcoming war which was always going to happen. We already know they’ve been hunting leviathans. You really think the tritons would leave them unprotected or not try to fight against the slaughter of their gods? We already know Edyn doesn’t trust them. Caught in the crossfire, tritons were kidnapped while they, somehow, killed leviathans. And maybe they’re also using tritons to help power their artificial god? That’s less plausible in my mind tho. Anyway, Caspian’s a clone, probably recently though I’m not sure how recently. I’ll have to look back at past episodes. Im also not sure how they would have kidnapped him? Though it’s not impossible. Maybe it happened during the big fight in episode 100. I hope he’s not dead, he’s so chill…

Faith's Eden

I specifically think it’s a DoppleCaspian because the only humanoids they saw in the navy base were tritons and triton skin

Grrafe

This works really well with my theory that Caspian and the nomads he was traveling with stumbled on construction of a part of the artificial leviathan. Instead of my original idea of them coercing him or some shit, they took him and made him and potentially everyone else with him into Black Ops. Which would go fucking crazy.

Lucky7s

i actually think the "its lizzie" argument holds some water charlie!!! youre not crazy.. it being lizzie would subvert expectations.. and could explain why she is so gung ho to attack the navy. just sayin!

KonkeyDong

If the spy is Lizzy then it would make sense because she would probably be rounding up pirates to send them into a trap

Nicol

Game Theory I don't think the mole is Martial John, they read his diary and saw his doubts about the navy and the John on their ship is the one from the block that was frozen so they wouldn't really have the chance to replace him with a clone. It could be the medic on the crew but I feel like it would be a lot more impactful if it was Caspian because of how he as been with Lizzy the whole time even with shadow beard. He could've been a clone back then and that could be the reason why the navy knew about the island instead of Jay's sister betraying Lizzy's trust and could also be connected to the person who chose to fire on shadow beard and her. I also think that chip might be a distant relative of the sorcerers in the flashback that the tree gave Gillian because there were four groups; the dragon who I don't think is directly related to any of the captains, the tritons with the leviathans who are connected to Gillian, the fiery haired Olympian looking people who are connected to Jay, and then the sorcerers who with chip starting to develop magical capabilities could be related to him. I think the black egg is similar to the purpose and function of the temple of the black egg in hollow knight, where it is sealing a corrupting entity away. I would like to believe this entity could have similar properties to the radiance from hollow knight as well because that would be very cool and fit very well.

azu

ok that’s what i thought but the wording of the announcement had me confused

henners

Gill is a child of the moon, jay is a child of the sun. What if Chip is a decendant of whatever eldritch being is locked away...

Vyrion-157

The Mole on Lizzy’s ship is seperate from the black ops replace everyone with clones plots.

Cherrie Moon

I'm pretty sure though it was mentioned that Caspian isn't a triton he's a water genasi which are two completely different races

Grrafe

Yes, they're two seperate programs, but they can still overlap. Grizz implied as much this Rolled. What he probably means is that the people overseeing each of these programs are completely seperate, and don't make decisions based on one another's programs. Odds are, the people who recruit the spies have absolutely no clue about Black Ops. If they managed to bring someone on who is Black Ops, that just goes to show how well these silent soilders are integrated into society. Even the Navy's own staff wouldn't have the slightest clue that anything was wrong. Which is really fun to think about.

Tayze Benson

I would love to see more paradise chronicles one shots. Tizen is such a creative dm and it's so fun to see the 4 boys play together

G H

The one with Chip and Jay meeting for the first time has already happened, there's a video on YouTube about it

scrimmyjim

i think it’s caspian because that would hurt lizzie the most.

kokonator

Will the break be for all jrwi content after the suckining

Makenzie Daugherty

Other than the dark, hmm, elephant in the room. This episode is possibly my favorite i’ve heard from riptide. I like to imagine that their goodbye’s weren’t their last, and that the next time we see our heroes we’ll all be alright. But if not, I’m glad they got to say they love each other. I hope the moon and sun gods can see them in that dark pit of hell.

Zasne

No. There is going to be a small break from all uploads until the 13th, then the suckening will come back, but Riptide will be for hopefully only 6 months

Piltover’s Finest

Caspian gave Gillion the Golden Lotus to gain the trust of Gillion, just because he was nice doesn’t mean he’s not a TRAITOR!

Kobra

Yo I love Queen but they might be a black ops agent, only going off they can’t remember his past

Firn

Golden lotus (which transformed into destiny's blade) could always shape shift. Who's to say it couldn't talk before maybe it just didn't till grand reveal and it's actually a spy without caspian ever even knowing about it (or maybe they were both in on it)

Patrick Rowe

I'M GOING TO MISS THIS AHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Ethananous512

Can we get more Just Roll What If’s to fill the gap? Ive been in the Apotheosis alternate ending waiting room for so long now

Zythe

PD is gonna stay on hiatus, but bizly said he’s been cooking something up

Mephobia Man

I also thought the pin was a pen bizzly is not alone

Thunder Smoke

i think caspian is the mole, cuz the sword he gave gillian has been trying to get gil to defy destiny the entire time, and gil's whole destiny is to save the black sea or whatevs, so like raft would want the black sea to remain??? question mark???

DeeDeDeeDee

I legit think it’s Caspian because of his connection to Eden and bc he was incredibly vauge when giving his backstory. Like even if he hadn’t spoken to his sister in years there’s no fucking way he doesn’t know she’s one of the elders of the undersea. Eden is working with the Navy and has expressed how much she hates the Elders. She has every reason to plot for the takedown of the Undersea. You mean to tell me Caspian just knew her and knew she was related to Gillion? Like yeah they look alike but it’s suspicious. Him giving Gillion the sword was weird but at the same time he did loan it to him and when he did it was a different form. It was to gain Gillion’s trust specially. It could have been a fluke on his part but DB does keep insisting that Gillion sever the strings of fate which could be a good or bad thing. He just seems like the most likely to be a mole bc he’s literally like way too chill and likable.

Grrafe

Looking back on this, it's totally a crack theory and I love it for that lmao.

N.R.Kie

personal theory of mine that the military is raising child soldiers that are from the undersea. The only undersea characters that are above sea and are of high importance that we can trust are gillion(banished by undersea) and peepaw(one of the undersea's greatest schollars). We know of gillion's sister who was talking to Grandma ferin and Caspeian who was originally part of black beards crew (we dont know his full backstory as to why he is there, we only know he is from a small unknown part of the under sea.) We also know the undersea were having conversations with the military. Pepaw and gillion have good reason to be out of the undersea, but we have no clue how Caspeian and gillion's sister left(we know undersea people dont leave because of how people reacted to seeing gillion in allport). Caspeian could also have been the reason the navy managed to find black beard and kill him. This also means lizzy has been blaming herself for nothing and that the true person to blame was the person who was next to her(also, caspeian is way too good at magic and fighting when compared to gillion who trained from birth in the undersea so he could be millitary trained.)this also gives lizzy's backstory and her bad relationship with Jay to be fixed even a little bit more We could also argue that gillion's sister may be a tool used by the military to control gillion who is the apparent chosen hero of the world. We could also say they are clones using the technology from the old navy base Or mind control because grizzly briefly mentioned a machine that made gillion feel like he wanted use any frustration he had to swear loyalty with the military(which might mean gillion could also betray chip and Jay like some kind of sleeper agent.) Also it doesn't make much sense how caspeian knew about edyn and introduced her almost out of nowhere. *Sorry for any Grammer and spelling mistake I don't speak English fluently and auto correct will kill me*

Goonglab

No the shadow wizard money gang shit was fire

Michael

dude just likes hollow knight

Michael

the thing about lizzie though, if she was the spy she would be busting a lot more pirates than only the crew she put together; she could be planning to wipe out most pirates in one swoop by luring them into the waiting arms of the navy

Grrafe

There's credibility to that idea, but the issue is she has no time timeline wise to become a part of the Navy's spies. You could argue she could've had time with Ava to do it, but she also watched the Navy gun down Ava. I feel like after losing her lover, she would've defined turned away from it. Resented them. Out of all the crew for the Cresent Moon, we know the most about her and we have more solid proof of timeline, since we had the two-shot beforehand. It's hard to actually pin it to her, both with her timeline and personality. She's the least likely to be the spy, for that and the above listed reasons. Of course, there could be Black OPs at play, bit I doubt it. I feel like with what's been established, what relationship she held with Ava, etc... there's not a clean way to bring that twist in.

InsomniaDraws

Shadow cleric yaoi gang was great, but I've said it once and I'll say it again: two yaois don't make a yuright Grizz 😭

Michael

it’s totally lizzie

zeebz

Okay some crazy thoughts about the traitor stuff - but what if Caspian having been on the crew with Lizzie before the massacre is what makes him the traitor instead of what makes him innocent? Someone had to be a traitor with the Shadowbeard situation - and while it could have been Ava with a long con, it could have also been Caspian - who was also there, and also one of the sole survivors. There's also this connection with Edyn that is very convenient, and not entirely explained. It could definitely be a coincidence, but with as much shit Edyn Tidestrider is involved in directly with the Admiral herself, it can't just be ignored. Second just absolutely insane thought, not quite Grandberry Pirate traitor but about the black ops clone sorta thing - what if Ava was replaced by a clone before having seemingly led the navy to their island hideout. While there is little really known about Ava, Jay loved her, and Lizzie trusted her. And while I absolutely think the Admiral Ferin would have given the order to shoot down her own granddaughter if necessary and blame the pirates for her death, it could also be a double to cover the tracks of the black op replacement. The replacement would have had the trust of Lizzie, could have done the difficult job of the betrayal, and then could be expendable afterwards, all for the sake of destroying Shadowbeard and pirate reputation in general. Third thought, even crazier, what if Caspian is a black ops clone and the original Caspian is on a hook in that crazy ass nightmare doom stronghold. All that being said - John just may be the obvious choice. Since the beginning his one goal after leaving the Navy has been to join the Grandberry Pirates specifically. Not any crew, Lizzie's specifically. The BLOCK can be explained by the fact that nobody but the spy and the Admiral know about their role. To every other Navy officer, Marshal John was a traitor and a pirate. They wouldn't have any idea if he was a spy before tossing him into the tundra room and letting him turn into an ice decoration. Who knows, evidence and conclusions can be drawn for either Caspian or John. I just don't want it to be Caspian man. He's chill like that

Adrianne Weaver

I didn't think it was Caspian being the mole then Charlie says "he gave me destiny blade" and I was like where he get that

Vyrion-157

One thing that might prove John’s innocence is the fact that we’ve seen his personal logbook. Which contained incredible poetry and little else.

Vyrion-157

I think Gillion’s the mole. His sister is in the Navy, and she’s been a bit sus lately.

Louie Rodeghiero

I just realised that now Gillian the one who has to fulfill his promise to Niklaus is only with chip the one who can’t stop Gillian from doing his favour. FUCK

The Case Man

Theory that’s gonna come up when the next episode comes out. Arlen Is in chips mind, that’s the reason why when they went into chips mind to beat Kubas curse in liquidous he talked to him in his mind. This is also the reason that Chip got the map on his back instead of Arlen. While rewatching the show Grizzly had dropped a couple hints to point to this that I’m blanking on

Nathan

Does this imply that dougon made a deal with Niklaus

chaoticgaygremlin

If John is the traitor I will cry. I will pause the episode, and cry. I do feel like it's more likely that the traitor is Rudith, though. Think about it- Rudith appeared out of nowhere during the Joaldo Arc and just so happened to be completely fine with a crew of loud, boisterous pirates under the room where a bunch of fuckin sick people were trying to rest? No good medic would do that without an ulterior motive. I listened to the episode for the third time yesterday, and I can't find any dialogue where Rudith states why the actual fuck he's letting the Grandberry pirates & the Albatrio hang out under his hospital shack. And NO, this is NOT me being in denial about it potentially being Caspian or John and not wanting a Doug repeat.

Three Moths in a Trenchcoat

Insane thought and correct me if I misunderstood, but the log Jay got mentioned her dad receiving some sorta treatment and what if he got a clone

Three Moths in a Trenchcoat

Caspian is Hella sus but the mole could also be rudith because evil music kept playing when they popped up idk how to explain

Gekerd blep

I can't wait for this to come back there is so much that could happen So excited to see what happens with jay and how that goses Cant wait to see what crazy mess chip and gill will have Wonder how because of the machine making Gillion a better soldier will affect him as well as just can't wait to see the undersea and whatever happens with that Can't wait to see whatever the fuck happens with chip and his dead living body and how that affects him more And so much with the trader and just eveyone ahh so excited So i wait patiently and excitedly for whatever they have in store (Dark puckered hole is a sinful masterpiece and i would pay top dollar for the actual book XD old man yaoi hits crazy in jrwi dnd)

Storocrat

The shark that gillion is now wearing is totally a cum shark

Eggyneer

it's almost been 1 whole year....

Imnothere

Goobleck is the imposter

Krow

Gonna make “THE HELM JUG MAN THE HELM” my alarm

gooner

Engorged dewgon ✌️🤤