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New poll! "Billie Jean" vs. "When Doves Cry" (Patreon)

Published:
2025-02-13 17:05:43
Imported:
2026-06

Poll

New poll! "Billie Jean" vs. "When Doves Cry"

  • Billie Jean 337
  • When Doves Cry 430
  • 2025-02-13
  • 767 votes
{'title': 'New poll! "Billie Jean" vs. "When Doves Cry"', 'choices': [{'text': 'Billie Jean', 'votes': 337}, {'text': 'When Doves Cry', 'votes': 430}], 'closes_at': None, 'created_at': datetime.datetime(2025, 2, 13, 17, 2, 41, tzinfo=datetime.timezone.utc), 'description': None, 'allow_multiple': False, 'total_votes': 767}

Content

These are songs you may have heard of. We're finally doing an MJ vs. Prince episode and Christ who knows how this one is gonna go.

Well, don't read, vote.

Comments

Keirik

only one of these played for a few seconds in McG's 2000 opus Charlie's Angels and it wasn't Prince

Charli XXYYXX

Billie Jean is objectively the better song…but I’m from Minnesota so WHEN DOVES CRY ALL THE WAY!!!

KaiserBeamz

Voting for "Billie Jean" because it's one of my top tracks off of <i>Thriller</i> and because "When Doves Cry" might be my least favorite track off <i>Purple Rain</i>. Sorry it's true.

Steph

How could you not vote for Prince?

Brandon Hay

I hate that you sometimes have to admit that an evil person is also a once in a generation talent. Why can't bad people just stick to making bad music.

Eric

When Dove cries I find it the more interesting song and think there is more to find. Billie Jean is more important for the Culture.

Panther419

Okay but my mom didn't see Prince eleven times in concert for me to vote for MJ

TJ Guiney

When Doves Cry > Billie Jean > When Doves Cry (radio edit)

HRJ

It does not bode well when my first reaction is: "What the hell is When Doves Cry?" I guess i've heard it at some point, the melody is familiar but i'm definitely not a fan of Prince's singing here. He was clearly a talented musician, his live performances are great (Super Bowl and George Harrison tribute) but my feelings on his music can be summed up as "meh". Not a hard choice for me.

Dork Mode

Billie Jean is great because of its bassline, but When Doves Cry is greater because of its LACK of a bassline.

BuckTurner

Both of these are stone classic, and I'm happy to hear either one, but there's only one that I will pull up and play on purpose. Also, if you're thinking of cover versions, the Romeo + Juliet Baz Luhrman movie had a great one.

Connor Rankin

As much as I still love Michael Jackson, something about endorsing him in 2025 seems too precarious. But, again, lest we forget both men found themselves in relationships of questionable legality. Nowadays, it feels like asking to choose between songs by Lostprophets and Mindless Self Indulgence :/ Okay, maybe not to that extreme but you get what I mean

SpectralTime

Musically, I could go either way... but Billie Jean has more of a story to it than Yet Another Song about how the relationship sucks but the sex is great.

Dork Mode
>>164595629

So... you're saying When Doves Cry is better because it isn't associated with Charlie's Angels?

Tristan

Both are pretty much perfect pop songs but i guess When Doves Cry takes the edge cuz its the more interesting in its perfection, maybe its the radio overplay Billie Jean got post-MJ death but i feel Billie Jean is pretty boringly perfect, while being boring is something Prince would need a couple of decades to achieve

Kai

Only one of these songs I listened to while mowing down innocent pedestrians in a military tank, and it ain't the one about birds or whatever. PS, GTA Vice city is the best GTA game

Jacob Witmer

Speaking as a bass player, Prince doesn’t want me here

Amy Taylor

While I do really like Billie Jean, it always felt like a song he where he was singing someone elses story, not his own. When Doves Cry absolutely feels like its about Prince and some one he was involved with, and thats what makes it just a little more enjoyable for me

Nir revel

As a wise man once said "Prince outlived Mike Jack" and that's a good reason as any to vote for one over the other.

Jon Heiman

Similar to "Royals" last episode, "Billie Jean" gets dragged down by its basic and/or boring beat--though its pre-chorus is nice.

Zero

Billie Jean, the drums alone are iconic. The first five seconds of that song will perk up everybody in the room.

Robert Mischief

Billie Jean is not my song pick It’s just a jam that think it is the one But the Prince has got my vote

Edward Brewer

Ah the match-up we've all been waiting for. Iconic Bass Line vs. No Bass Line

Franco del Rosario

Ah yes, Billie Jean. The generation-defining pop masterpiece whose lyrics could have been directly lifted from an episode of Maury Povich. “The kid is NOT my son!”

Angela

Maybe I'm a weirdo but I like When Doves Cry way better. Though I REALLY don't want to dig the picture of me and William Shatner engaged in a kiss. Or the sweat of my body covering his. Ew.

Jonathan Baker

Todd said it best in the K.Dot v Drake video; Mike is the pop star. Prince is the artist.

Angela
>>164596079

I do like it, but it kinda also gives me "Evangelical congregation singing Like a Prayer at church" vibes XD

(William) Patrick Hodges

Almost any Prince hit washes any Micheal Jackson hit for me, though if it was PYT it’d be closer. Billie Jean is great, if overplayed, but When Doves Cry is a 1 of 1. Especially with the extended outro, it just hits higher heights as a song

undeednu

I've heard the Billie Jean cover by The Bates more often than both originals combined.

Nico Niconi

Ahh yes, the Song Vs Song 144th episode spectacular!

Steven C Boston

If you come at the king, you had best be engaged in a kiss

The Omega Geek

I don't think that anyone thinks the kid was MJ's son. Billie Jean had better taste than that.

Vince Whitacre
>>164596074

This needs to be the top comment, and the first read on the pod. Billie Jean is a fantastic song, a cornerstone of a classic album, by an historically great (if admittedly problematic) artist. But When Doves Cry? Nah, precious little music ever made stands at this level. It's a better song, on a better album, by a greater artist. And yes. The best part of BJ is that classic bassline; and while the lack of bass may not be the #1 best part of Doves, it is definitely what makes it stand out so starkly. Nobody but Prince would have made such an audacious decision... only to have it be exactly the right choice.

SpectralTime
>>164596130

I’m not gonna say Prince isn’t a better lyricist and musician than whichever songwriter produced whichever Maroon 5 song springs to mind, but underneath the craft it’s the same subject matter and I’m about as invested.

seedmunch

A friend once told me his bass player just could not figure out the bassline to When Doves Cry. Oh honey, how sweet.

Yurple

I hate Prince's music deeply. It has, and will never sound good to me in any significant way. But... ethically I have to vote for When Doves Cry. I just can't back Micheal Jackson with all that's happened

mfsbdb

This is the one I’ve been waiting for. Probably the two greatest pop singles of the 80s from pop’s greatest rivalry. Unfortunately it’s still a blow out though - Prince made ‘When Doves Cry’ by himself as a last minute addition to the soundtrack after the producers told him they needed a new song for a montage scene. Imagine presenting ‘When Doves Cry’ as your homework. I think it’s the single greatest achievement in music history - produced, arranged, written, composed and performed by one man (plus Susan Rogers helping as the engineer) in one night. It’s an absolute triumph for artistry and creative freedom. Oh and ‘Billie Jean’ is a 10/10 too.

Meg Galuardi

I immediately voted for When Doves Cry, but by the time I had scrolled to the bottom of the post Billie Jean was stuck in my head. Take that as you will.

Clay Peterson

This is a true battle of equals. I suspect Prince will take it because of *waves hands towards all of MJ’s life after 1991* but this is like the Godzilla vs Kong of pop music. When do both songs team up to battle “Party All the Time”? Anyway, I can’t even choose. Too close to call.

T. Ryder

I normally shoot from the hip when I'm voting on these things. And my heart says Prince, but I feel like I should do some homework first and analyze the songs.

Jonathan Baker
>>164598027

Prince quoting misinterpreted lyrics: "Dig if you will a picture, of you and Marvin Gaye and the kids."

Michael Gibler

Billie Jean is really only one of the few Michael Jackson songs i like. Whereas When Doves Cry is one of my least favorite Prince songs (still a solid 4/5 tho)

Cheeseburger_666

I just... can't with Michael Jackson anymore.

Birthe_bird

Have to say first version I heard of Billy Jean was a punk cover and the song is a fucking banger, so I cant help but give it my vote. Even if Prince is the better artist.

Dax

No matter which one you prefer, no one can deny that losing Billie Jean and the moonwalk would be worse than losing When Doves Cry.

Marius The Tactician

I'm sorry, the allegiance of Romanians lies with the one true King of Pop. Prince is too American to have a reach as wide as MJ.

Ri

Third party vote for Everything She Wants by Wham

ol bill

This was so hard. On the one hand, Billie Jean is my fave MJ song. On the other hand, as a bisexual man, I’ve been in my share of When Doves Cry level fights with a lover before. I’m going Prince for bisexual culture.

Fly, My Winged Monkeys!

I immediately went Doves because, well... Buuut, it's not the better song.... CURSE YOU FOR MAKING ME DO THIS, TODD!! Fuck the Doves, you are making ME cry!!!

sgeddegs
>>164598318

given todd’s predilections (*pop* song reviews), i still feel like he’ll take mike’s side (and i wanna see how he, or for that matter, both of em try to sidestep each artist’s controversies lmao)

Thomas Sturges-Allard

Is it weird that I have never heard of "When Doves Cry"? The post here, and discussion on the pod seems to imply this should be a really well know song? I don't think Prince broke through properly in the UK maybe?

Thomas Sturges-Allard
>>164612553

Went and listened to it. Maybe sounds vaguely familiar? But yeah defintely not the level of Billie Jean in popular conciousness surely?

Vaebeth

MJ and sexual scandals make me want to crawl into a dark corner, Prince makes me want to crawl toward the bathtub.

Deanna Banana

I already enjoy Prince more as an artist, then add in the Romeo and Juliet movie connection and it is no contest for me.

Tanner M.

Definitely not any uncomfortable topics that are gonna tip the scales for this one at all…

Steph

When Doves Cry is just such a singularly singular song

Albert Farkas

You may have jumped the shark a little bit with the last one.

NinjaTylerBlack

Maybe I'm just like my father because I'm going with prince on this one

HRJ
>>164612553

I had the same reaction to hearing that song name. Doing some digging I think Prince's popularity is just very limited to the US. For example the Purple Rain film, arguably the peak of Prince's popularity, grossed $68 million dollars in the US while making only $2 million internationally.

Lee Breezy

It’s Jackson and it’s not even close. I know it’s not gonna won but…dammit Todd

T. Ryder
>>164613139

If anyone asks me, I guess I'd have to compare the art. And the answer is still Prince.

Brett Brinkman

When Doves Cry is a fantastic, career defining song for Prince. Billie Jean was the first time we got to see The Moonwalk. Prince is gonna take the win but history was made during Billie Jean.

J.D. Laney

It’s hard to separate MJ’s allegations from this discussion. Honestly, I prefer Billie Jean if I completely separate art from artist, but When Doves Cry doesn’t make me cringe when I hear it.

Lanth

Even ignoring the artists, Billie Jean is a mediocre MJ song, and When Doves Cry is one of Prince's best. It's no contest.

Lanth
>>164596079

I love the vibe of "tone not matching the content" and I love that cover.

SpoopsForDays

Could Mike dunk on a bunch of dudes while wearing flats and a crushed velvet suit? I think not. Purple One for the win.

Tiffany

Both musical legends! But since Michael Jackson would still have Thriller, I am voting for "When Doves Cry." 🕊 😢

Uncle Jam

"Hey baby, I'm a straight male. Would you like to come back to my place and dance on the floor in the round?"

JazzySpF

Who will win, a song with one of the greatest bass lines of all time or a song with literally no bass line at all?

panpolypuff

I know MJ's lyrical approach prioritized flow and inflection above narrative coherence, but the vibe of Billie Jean is too self-serious for me to forgive how much time it spends saying basically nothing.

Real Nguyen
>>164612553

I don't think Purple Rain's success should be compared against the movie's sales, but rather its soundtrack's sales. And the soundtrack did seem to hit multi-platinum in the UK, though I'm not from there so I can't talk about Prince's cultural impact against those sales.

Kelley Runyon

I have great memories of my junior year (1984-85) at the roller skating rink where When Doves Cry (as well as I Would Die 4 U) were heavily featured. Prince always beat MJ for me.

Richard Angle

If you think Jacko was the first (alleged) pedo to be featured on this fine podcast, you’re naive as fuck.

Kynan Clarke-Chancellor

Prince is more talented, but Billie Jean is just undeniable to me. Maybe partially because someone (incorrectly) told me many years ago that it was about Diana Ross. I wish we lived in that universe.

Allan Olley

Another very close one for me. Hard to say but my gut is saying that When Doves Cry is the somewhat deeper well. Billie Jean is definitely brasher and more memorable.

Gal Hazor

Just wanted to note that although Michael Jackson definitely brings a gross baggage, even if you just read Sinéad O'Connor's memories of Prince you can tell this is not a battle of good vs. evil (that's not even taking into account whatever would've come out in that scrapped documentary). So I'm gonna have to put all of that aside and pick "When Doves Cry" cuz I like guitars

Ally M

I’d never deliberately listened to Prince until 15 minutes ago. And I feel like I have a better understanding of Powerline from A Goofy Movie now.

HAUNTER

Maybe I’m a weirdo but I’ve never been a huge MJ fan, even before knowing about any of the pedo stuff. Like I love pop music but I never got any of MJs music stuck in my head or wanted to clean my house to it or got psyched up by it. Prince on the other hand, I’ve been hearing from my parents since I was a toddler, and I’ve always liked his music, especially when the doves cry. It’s always been a song that enchanted me. I think there’s something rly special about it. I love walking into a bookstore and hearing it on the radio etc. one of life’s little treats.

Rich Kee

Todd is like some kind of morally ambiguous trickster god. Making Lina participate in a discussion about the song where Michael Jackson denies interest in a child. Making us all vote and debate and try not to go too far with the low-hanging "Pretty Young Thing" jokes while he laughs from his throne of shadows. Honestly, if it turned out Todd is currently possessed by the ghost of Prince it would explain a lot.

EvilImposterGeorge

Coincidentally the second Billie vs royalty episode in a row

Lucy Daughter of None

Broadly speaking I prefer Prince to MJ by a country mile but Billie Jean has the best bass line in pop history so

nic

I've never been a Prince fan, sorry. I've been specifically recommended him constantly and have never been able to get into him (I liked artists like Britney and Janet as well as Björk and Tori Amos as a kid, so Prince seemed like the obvious recommendation, I guess). I feel the same way about him that I feel about, like, Rocky Horror Picture Show: he's "weird" or "alt" in a mainstream way. MJ seemed to shake people's ground in a way (apart from the allegations, obviously) Prince never did. In a weird way, MJ comes across as the genuinely "weird" or "alt" one of the two. despite being the definition of a mainstream artist.

nic

I don't mean to state the obvious, but I'm not sure how to have a conversation about this without bringing up the MJ allegations. The whole conversation brings up the very difficult question of how to treat perpetrators of these kinds of crimes: like, a person who was sexualized and abused as a child and continually abused into his adulthood to horrifying, unimaginable extremes turned out to be pedophilic. This obviously doesn't condone pedophilia. . .this all brings to light serious questions about criminality and free will. I want to be sympathetic and talk about his musical genius without all of that but I don't want to be unsympathetic to all of the baggage it brings up to victims and the general public.

Nia

This one is really difficult for me. I really got into Prince a bit later but as a music lover him and MJ are in my blood. I’ll have to go with Billie Jean. I remember Todd saying once that music will never sound as good to you as when you were middle school age and that’s when I first heard Billie Jean in the summer of 2009 right after MJ died. But really evaluating with some distance and as a person who loves Prince and has listen to many of his deep cuts, as a person who loves sign o the times I still have to go with Billie Jean. There is a warmth and immediacy to it that I can’t quite explain. I love when doves cry but the Prince songs I come back to are I wanna be your lover, adore, little red corvette, I would die 4 u

Nia

MJ is FEELING that shit

Nia

I think there’s a part of me that appreciates and respects when doves cry more but my heart is with Billie Jean if that makes sense

Nia

Billie Jean also has the amazing early 80s video

Nia

Shit Prince is sooo good though. Okay I’ll stop rambling

Nia
>>164596749

True. But they both died in their 50s due to drug overdoses

Michael Murphy

I'll vote for MJ on this one, provided that at some point we do an episode on Will You Be There vs. I Believe I Can Fly. Then we'll really see where loyalties lie, and just how much our hosts will squirm.

Nia

Ignition remix vs what?

Nia

A lot of these comments feel very white to me if you know what I mean. Where’s the song v song POC squad at?

Noah Brown

Billie Jean has one of the greatest bass lines of all time. When Doves cry has no bass, so Billie Jean it is.

Eva42

If only Jackson wasn't a creep maybe he would win a poll

Mr Spaghett

When Doves Cry lacks a bassline... and yet it goes so unbelievably hard it's insane. Gotta give it to Prince here.

Sam Potts

Jackson was a very troubling and troubled individual, and the subject of serious and credible allegations. In the light of these accusations, the song itself takes on a creepier tone that it had when I first heard it in the 80's. What's more, When Doves Cry is associated with one of my favourite movies, Romeo+Juliet. And despite all this, I prefer Billie Jean by a mile.

theblackwingangel

After listening to both, original and fingerstyle i have to admit when doves cry is just such a banger. Game blouses.

Preston A. Rickwood

Jackson ad libbed so much it's become a go-to for impersonators. But Prince's ad lib on "When Doves Cry" so far outshines any of Jackson's efforts that it's not really a contest.

Kathleen

Gotta give it to the harpsichord. To me When Doves Cry is the Prince song.

Robert_boy_genius

As someone who has gone through ALL of princes albums. I love his work more but I love Michaels's songs more. Fun fact: I won the lottery for the chance to buy ticket to his ‘this is it’ tour. And was deciding if could persuade my parents to spend hundreds of pounds on them when he died. Saved me a load of trouble

Paul Anderson

I really shouldn't vote on "which epic song am I less bored with." Historically Billie Jean brought the moonwalk, a major step in MJ's song writing, and a modest step in music videos with a $50 budget. Purple Rain would be monumental with or without When Doves Cry Yet When Doves Cry is the one I still enjoy more every time I hear it. Maybe Todd and Lina can sort out why.

Shiny Skunk

I gotta stand in solidarity with a fellow purple guy.

Albert Farkas
>>164619233

What with the record number of votes for the Lorde vs Billie episode. The upcoming more „ancient“ episodes may feel like a comedown compared to that, regardless of the songs‘ historical significance.

TimeBombMan

I know this isn't artist vs. artist, but Michael Jackson bought the rights to the Beatles songs catalogue and yet he isn't the one who played an all-time great solo on a live rendition from "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" prompting an entire rollercoaster of appreciative reactions from Tom Petty. This Prince has trumped the King.

Austin F

i vote billie jean. you know how todd had that issue with doja cat where he couldn't fully get on board with her and couldn't articulate why, even though it would make sense for him to enjoy the music? that's always been me with prince's pop hits. i don't know what my problem is. they just all hit me wrong. i love I Feel For You and Nothing Compares 2 U, so it must be something about prince himself that puts me off. and i can't say it's because i don't like prince as a person, because we all know exactly the kind of person MJ is. maybe todd can analyze me because he's the pop music guy

P K

When Doves Cry is fantastic - until it loses all tightness in the last minute or so. I wish it had a stronger ending.

Dani

I feel like y'all need to know that Tavis Smiley went on DJ Vlad and spoke about MJ's insomnia. When asked about why he doesn't like to sleep, he said "If I sleep for too long, god will give all the good ideas to Prince."

Dani

what were michael jackson's pronouns? hee/hee!

Ben Cook-Feltz

Billie Jean is nothing without that bass line. When Doves Cry doesn't even have a bass line. Bass is overrated. Prince wins.

Beau Dure

The drums on When Doves Cry are a direct precursor to the St. Anger snare. Billie Jean all the way.

Jakob Eyjólfsson

Michael Jackson was a very good singer and dancer. Prince was an even better singer and a truly otherworldly guitarist. I don’t give a shit about dancing. Prince it is.

Hannah C

I love Prince as an artist, but Billie Jean really does just get you moving

StuTheShoe

Prince fucked up when he took the bass out of "When Doves Cry." The track sounds downright flimsy and hollow without it. The fact they added bass when playing the song live is tantamount to a smoking gun admission of said fuck up. "Billie Jean" all the way.

Staghorn

Prince has the rain episode on lock, we can give this one to MJ

trainboy

Prince was the better artist and the better person but Billie Jean is the better song. Prince needed to let The Dove fly to Ireland to let the song soar.

David Fisher

I'm voting for Billie Jean just for the emotional Hee Hee Hee at the end. That's how you know Michael Jackson is adamant of this being a false paternity

Maxine - RaccoonRevolution

I guess this is where I admit I think both of these songs are kind of overrated. I don't say that just to be a contrarian, both of them are good tunes, but each has some key production factor (the drum machine on When Doves Cry and the full minute and a half that you could cut from the end of Billie Jean, respectively) that I think holds them back. In the end I gave it to Prince just cuz I like his outfits in the music video better than Michael's.

JF

Great to see Song vs Song pitting members of the royal pop family against each other. (Smirk)

Joe Jennings

I am a sucker for a good guitar riff. Sorry, not sorry.

Hilja

Bats shall dance over the moonwalk, as the gods of old intended

Dan Hogg
>>164635699

Seven Nation Army vs. Mr. Brightside is gonna be a hell of a 200th episode.

Franco del Rosario

Let’s no pretend that the third-party vote could be anything other than Tarzan Boy.

Sophie Biehl

I have to throw my vote to Billie Jean...if Daryl Hall, notorious asshole, was reportedly okay with Michael Jackson ripping off the bassline to I Can't Go For That (No Can Do), then I guess I can be too.

David P

The winner of this will finally determine who would've sang "Your butt is mine" in the Bad duet.

Katie Utke

As a Minnesotan, I am legally obligated to vote for Prince, lest I anger the old gods and need to be purified in the waters of Lake Minnetonka for the sake of my soul.

Lanth
>>164619233

FWIW, you're thinking of the word "peaked"; "jumped the shark" specifically means "went off the rails doing wacky things for the views", with a strong hint of "and was much worse as a result". I think we can all agree that Lorde vs Billie was extremely on the rails for this podcast.

Jayden Egan

I can’t choose I’m a Minnesotan but fell in love with music when I heard MJ It could only get worse if Todd real wanted to milk Prince vs MJ Wanna Be Startin Something Vs Let’s go Crazy Dirty Diana Vs Darling Nicki Take Me With U Vs Baby Be Mine Ffs you could make a whole Purple Rain Vs Thriller album vs album discussion since both are 9 songs and equal levels of quality and importance

The Other Greg

Both of these songs are good songs. As pieces of art, they're well crafted and performed by people at (or near) the top of their game. But in the current environment, Billie Jean's premise reads like a conservative "Me Too" horror movie while When Doves Cry is about someone wrestling with their bad choices, trying to decide if it's a trauma response, bad decision making, or a combination of both. If that isn't relatable, I don't know what is. Also, When Doves Cry still sounds like a pure melodic sex, so I gotta give it up for Prince.

shermanmi

“I found Prince!” “Nonono FINGER prints.” … “I don’t think so.”

Sladen377

Anything Prince is better than anything else ever. Game, blouses.