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The Bronze Age Collapse - IV: Systems Collapse - Extra History (Patreon)

Published:
2017-07-14 17:00:00
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

It started with famine... and ended with four great civilizations' utter destruction. What can we learn from the Bronze Age Collapse?

Reminder: After this episode, Extra History will be taking a short medical leave. We'll be back starting on July 29!

Files

Previews only

The Bronze Age Collapse - IV: Systems Collapse - Extra History

It started with famine... and ended with four great civilizations' utter destruction. The Bronze Age Collapse is still a matter of scholarly debate, but our favorite theory rests on an understanding of Systems Collapse and how societies build themselves to survive disaster. Support us on Patreon! http://bit.ly/EHPatreon (--More below) Grab your Extra Credits gear at the store! http://bit.ly/ExtraStore Subscribe for new episodes every Saturday! http://bit.ly/SubToEC _________ Thanks for participating in this week's discussion! We want you to be aware of our community posting guidelines so that we can have high-quality conversations: https://goo.gl/HkzwQh Contribute community subtitles to Extra Credits: http://www.youtube.com/timedtext_cs_panel?c=UCCODtTcd5M1JavPCOr_Uydg&tab=2 ___________ Play games with us on Extra Play! http://bit.ly/WatchEXP Talk to us on Twitter (@ExtraCreditz): http://bit.ly/ECTweet Follow us on Facebook: http://bit.ly/ECFBPage Get our list of recommended games on Steam: http://bit.ly/ECCurator ____________ ♪ Get the intro music here! http://bit.ly/1EQA5N7 *Music by Demetori: http://bit.ly/1AaJG4H ♪ Get the outro music here! http://bit.ly/23isQfx *Music by Sean and Dean Kiner: http://bit.ly/1WdBhnm

Comments

Martin Verran

This was disappointingly Short for a First Forray into Middle Eastern History, methinks. Let's see what's next on the Schedule...hang on a Minute, the Great Northern War?...uh, oh...

Brian Rose

Great series guys! If I might make a suggestion -- since David is taking sick leave and you're looking for a replacement illustrator, why not, instead of taking next week off entirely, use it for James to do the Lies episode for this series?

SparkyDJM1

Listening to this and how civilisations collapse remind me of Richard Feynman's words when he was part of the investigation into the Space Shuttle Colombia's explosion: 'For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled' Hence, I am waiting nervously for the end result of Britain's political shenanigans thus far.

Connor Raikes

Great episode - really glad it came back around to drawing comparisons to the current day.

Jason Youngberg

"Killing each other for their next meal." I'm glad you had a picture of a guy with a sandwich otherwise things would have taken a REALLY dark turn. Do you have a bibliography of sources you used? It sounds like there are some really interesting books I'd like to read on this subject.

Ed

Awesome series, thanks for drawing attention to this fascinating piece. I wonder, in your research, did you encounter anything supporting a parallel between the Bronze Age Collapse and the later myths of a hostile sea power referred to as Atlantis in Plato's Timaeus dialog? The stories of ancient Greece and Egypt falling to the waves of invaders from the sea brought that to mind.

Justin M.

2:42 - Was that dark water from the cartoon?

Justin M.

My college history professor said this on the very first day of class and it stuck with me. "Civilizations rise, and civilizations fall. Their rise is never due to some moral superiority or genetic advantage, but more often than not mere chance and circumstance. Their fall is not some great lesson delivered from on high or the wrath of an angry divinity, but rather long term goals being sacrificed for short term gains."

Michael Jebbett

But where do zombies figure into all this? Surely zombies figure into all of this!

Sara Samaletdin
>>6158497

Great Northern War is the most promising series for a long time, it has everything that can make a great Extra History series. Speculation series like this when we have little facts are difficult.

Martin Verran
>>6158497

I Think we have had this Debate before and I beg to Differ. Precisely why so many People would Request the same Topic is beyond me, although I do admit that, as a Student of History, I am rather curious. My guess is we'll just have to wait and see when the Series starts.

Huw Rollinson

Another awesome series. I must admit to having been uninformed about the bronze-age collapse. Not anymore. Quite a baffling event even given James' compelling supposition. The famine theory is pertinent though. Consider this, of the five extinction events we know about, all but one was caused by climate change. Don't mess with Mother Earth or take her for granted!

Porcupine

Well I have a different theory - it was _totally_ subprime mortgages wot dunnit...

Sara Samaletdin
>>6158497

I am new here (I came during the last vote day for new series) so we could not have had this depate before. May I inquire why you feel this is not a good idea? Imo series that has multiple interesting characters form different sides (but not one main character which can result in positive protagonist bias), conflict that has some twist and impact is right what Extra History does best like with Opium War series (my favorite). And the region and era is not overdone. Russia has a series but rest of Northern Europe does not and the century only has South Sea Bubble if I recall correctly.

Michael Waisfeld

Reminds me of that moment in Shogun 2 Total War (And any of the newer ones really) when u have to destroy production buildings that cause unhappiness because u can't afford the garrisons but now you don't make enough money to pay for the extra troops that you need for a war that another faction just declared on you. In the best of scenarios you manage to scrape together enough money and military might to expand enough to get sufficient extra resources to get back on your feet. In the worst case you start losing cities, and thus resources, and enter a downward spiral from which there is no return but to press "quit to main menu"

Alec Barns-Graham

Hello! Please please please include a bibliography for your videos!

Martin Verran
>>6158497

Well never Mind in that Case, Sara. I too can Think of Plenty of Places whose History is understudied so I was very happy when Khosrow I Won the last Vote. I was going to say "Belated Welcome to our little Patreon Community" but that doesn't make sense now because there's 4,074 of us so I'm going to throw in a Sheep Joke and say, "BAAAAAAAAHlated Welcome to our 4,074 strong and Increasing Patreon Community."

ExtraCredits
>>6158497

Great Northern War is indeed up next! We try to travel around as much as we can when finding possible series topics so we'll be back to the Middle East - with Khosrow forstarters, but certainly we'll come back for more than that as well. I hope you both enjoy the Great Northern War series!

ExtraCredits
>>6158609

Would that it were so simple! Neither James nor I could reschedule for that. Lies will be after the one-off episodes come out.

ExtraCredits
>>6158897

Happily I do think we're a bit more stable than we were in the Bronze Age, so a few shakes probably won't take us down. At least we have that!

ExtraCredits
>>6159267

It is David (the artist) but I'll pass on the well wishes! Last I heard he was resting up well, which is exactly what we want him to be able to do.

ExtraCredits
>>6159699

James draws those parallels really well, I gotta say. As someone who's been trying to learn the writing style, this is still an approach I'm not very good at, so it makes me all the more impressed when I see James doing it so well! -Soraya

ExtraCredits
>>6159928

James did the work on this series but I'll flag it for him and see if it's something he wants to mention in Lies!

ExtraCredits
>>6165421

That's chilling. I think it's correct, but it's a chilling reminder of how conscientious we need to be about safeguarding our own future.

ExtraCredits
>>6177169

I kind of enjoy how many civilization strategy games have kinda nailed this connected infrastructure concept, where so often the collapse of multiple pillars of the society you're building has ripple effects that reach into your other systems as well.

ExtraCredits
>>6179391

Glad you enjoyed it! Adding bibliographies is an ongoing discussion for us; it's not happening this time around but if you're interested in a book I (Soraya) have been reading so I'll be prepared to discuss the subject with James (who wrote this series) during Lies, I recommend this one: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/1177-B-C-Year-Civilization-Collapsed/dp/1491581433" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/1177-B-C-Year-Civilization-Collapsed/dp/1491581433</a>

Michael Waisfeld
>>6177169

The thing is the best solution to these situations is to cut your losses and try to adjust your system to your now shrinked resources, something that no one likes to do as it means someone (if we're talking about the real world) would be screwed as the burden of this adjustment will not be equally shared. And if we're talking about the game we have a complete aversion to this moment where we have to stop advancing and take a step back.

Tobias Gross

A bibliography would be great!

Martin Verran
>>6158497

Well, we will just have to wait and see. I Remember feeling annoyed that Attila the Hun lost to Ned Kelly, but the Ned Kelly Series Turned out to be One of the best of the Bunch in my Opinion. Please tell the Kiner Brothers I still listen Regularly to the Ned Kelly Music Video, and David that I like his style of Art.

Bumble

Looking at this, I think it is great that you guys get involved with the people who support you, that's important. I may have grievances here or there. ((Ahem....d-day ep2)). But you guys do amazing work, and it makes me happy to see someone take history seriously, instead of brushing it off and stuff that just happened. Keep up the great work, you defently have earned my financial support.

ExtraCredits
>>6216492

Thanks so much! We expect disagreements - nobody's perfect, especially not us, and we try to own up to that as best as we can during Lies. But we also try our best to provide a well-reasoned perspective and we hope you enjoy joining us here in the Patreon community!

Bill Lemmond

Thank you for "the lesson for today." You neatly refuted the Luddite path, and pointed out how much better off we are today. But you warn that we shoudn't get complacent. I have a thought. A couple decades ago, on NPR, I heard that Lloyd's of London, hard-headed, no -nonsense business people, had paid out on an insurance policy that had been written to cover crops against loss from global warming. That sould be proof enough for anyone, The remaining honest arguments are over how much warming will there be, when, why, and maybe what to do.