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Catherine the Great - VI: Succession - Extra History (Patreon)

Published:
2017-03-03 18:00:00
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

Being empress for so long had changed the once-idealistic Catherine. She did not even trust her own son and successor. 

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Catherine the Great - VI: Succession - Extra History

The optimism that marked Catherine the Great's early years turned on its head. She oversaw the partition and final dissolution of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. She also alienated her son in the same way her own mother once did, leaving him ill-equipped to succeed her. Support us on Patreon! http://bit.ly/EHPatreon (--More below) Grab your Extra Credits gear at the store! http://bit.ly/ExtraStore Subscribe for new episodes every Saturday! http://bit.ly/SubToEC Play games with us on Extra Play! http://bit.ly/WatchEXP Talk to us on Twitter (@ExtraCreditz): http://bit.ly/ECTweet Follow us on Facebook: http://bit.ly/ECFBPage Get our list of recommended games on Steam: http://bit.ly/ECCurator ____________ ♪ Get the intro music here! http://bit.ly/1EQA5N7 *Music by Demetori: http://bit.ly/1AaJG4H ♪ Get the outro music here! http://bit.ly/23isQfx *Music by Sean and Dean Kiner: http://bit.ly/1WdBhnm

Comments

Martin Verran

Three Times in a Row First Like and First Comment!!! I am off now to Contemplate how to attain the supreme and final Wisdom and turn myself into a Buddha.

Benjamin

I'm surprised you never mentioned the Pale of Settlement.

RMS Oceanic

The French Flag is not as much of l'anachronisme as you might think. The first version of the tricolour was adopted in 1790, thought it was Red-White-Blue rather than today's Blue-White-Red. BWR would be adopted in early 1794, so she lived to see it.

SparkyDJM1

I'm surprised that you haven't started saying, 'And so, like so many other our our wonderfully complex and pretty awesome Extra History protagonists...' It's always a shame to see some of the great historical figures reach such heights and yet, when they reach the last chapters of their life, things go horribly wrong or they are met with bad luck and misfortune for what they initially thought was for the best. I really feel for Catherine in particular because, just like her, recent world events have made me question some of the radical (for want of a better word) beliefs and ideas that I've often believed in. Acting against what you believe in for the greater good or because you've seen that it doesn't always work out in real life leaves you feeling terrible and you doubt everything about everything's you've done because it feels like you've wasted so much time and energy. Ruler or ruled, seeing those ideas abused or turn out for the worse is disheartening.

Mornathel

Dang, The ending of her reign is sad. It reminds me in part of Suleiman's reign in how he was so effective but in the end he killed those closest to him and just messed up.

Jim McGeehin

Paranoia on succession would dog even the most capable of rulers. Engage them fully in the affairs of state, and a ruler could find themselves deposed by their heir or a faction supporting them, too little, and the nation falls to pieces. Even the Five Good Emperors of Rome had to worry about capable rivals and other knotty succession concerns, and if you've ever played CK2, you know what it's like to fear factions supporting your pretenders. Catherine had favored her grandson Alexander, who would later be Alexander I, the man who was Emperor when Napoleon had his disastrous invasion of Russia. This was a man who was almost two separate people, pushing for increasing reforms in the first half of his reign before descending into paranoia in the latter half. As for no more 'great' rulers of Russia, the first two Alexanders might be thought of as good or fair, certainly better than Alexander III or poor Nicolas II. Alexander the Blessed is a great ruler if you just ignore the second half of his reign.

Martin Verran
>>4140103

If you made a Series called, "Extra Philosophy" which Episode would the aforementioned Indian Fellow probably have appeared in?

Pavel Yakushevich

Another thing for lies episode: what you call Poland wasn't 'Poland'. It was a union of Kingdom of Poland and Duchy of Lithuania called 'Rzhech Pospolita'.

Michael Jebbett

Seems like we blazed right through this one.

Michael Jebbett

Ironically, ol' Cathy was so successful as a ruler that her successors feared another woman stepping up as she did, and made it a rule that only MEN could be czar. She basically doomed any other woman's chance at ever holding power in Russia again, and it remains one of the countries (many) problems to this very day.

ExtraCredits
>>4140297

I can't resist the urge to reference this (very divisive) joke from our Bolivar series, though. ;)

ExtraCredits
>>4140754

As Harvey Dent said, you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. I don't think that's universally true, but there is definitely some attrition that occurs from being in the same leadership role for a long time, watching your own mistakes come back to haunt you and in some cases reacting against them.

ExtraCredits
>>4140757

Justinian, too, after he lost Theodora. Distrust settles in slowly, but it digs in deep.

ExtraCredits
>>4141314

I took the line about no more "great" rulers to refer literally to the title - you had Peter the Great and Catherine the Great in fairly short succession, and then no more the Greats.

ExtraCredits
>>4144605

I *think* that's in the Lies episode, but don't quote me on it at this point. I haven't seen James's notes but I believe he mentioned it to me at one point.

ExtraCredits
>>4147134

Maaaan. It feels like sometimes even when you win, you lose in ways you couldn't have predicted. :\

ExtraCredits
>>4140175

It may be in the Lies episode - I mentioned this elsewhere, but I haven't seen James's notes for this one yet - and I'll certainly mention it to him.

Jim McGeehin
>>4141314

Fair enough. Despite Peter and Catherine's flaws, they were a cut above most Tsars.

Tempestfury

Suleiman the Magnificent. Catherine the Great. Even Justin I... they show, that no matter how great, how magnificent, or how ambitious a king or queen might be... in the end, we are all human. All mortal, frail and flawed... and that it why no man, nor woman, should ever rule alone.

De
>>4147134

This backlash effect is pretty common. I think Malcolm Gladwell or someone made a whole podcast discussing it.

Joo-Hwan Jun

The tragedy of being a Great ruler, but a Crappy mother.

Bill Lemmond

Thank you, so much, for such a balanced portrayal, strengths and weaknesses. So much of this is helpfull for being a spouse, a parent, a friend. I guess it's like the old Greek tragedies, that included some lessons. :) And it really is great to see what still makes Catherine great. I just wish I could forget all about the 'horse thing.' :/