SDS9 – S3E22: "Explorers" (Audio + Transcript) (Patreon)

This episode was recorded on January 30, 2024.

In this episode, Sam and Scott discuss "Explorers," in which Benjamin Sisko builds a replica of an ancient Bajoran spacecraft and goes exploring with Jake.

Find seasons 1 and 2 on the Southpaw podcast stream. Find the rest of season 3 on Patreon.

You can also listen to this episode directly from your favorite podcast player by following these instructions: https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/212055866-Subscribe-to-your-Audio-RSS-link-on-the-Patreon-app

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Transcript

[Note: Transcripts are autogenerated and may contain errors.]

SAM

We are back with Southpaw Deep Space Nine Season 3.

If you don't know what SDS9 is, it's Southpaw's completest DS9 watch-along show where we watch every episode, recap it, and analyze it.

We are your hosts, Scott and Sam.

Scott is someone who's watched DS9 more than once, whereas I'm someone who's casually watched some episodes when it first aired, but this is my first time watching each episode in earnest and as an adult.

And after we watch each episode, we come together and talk about it with today's eyes, but also with a historical and political lens.

We are discussing Season 3, Episode 22, Explorers.

Scott, can you tell us about this episode?

SCOTT

Yeah, why not?

So Bashir is alone at Quark's when a Dabo girl, Lita, comes up to ask him questions.

Dabo girls are these people that work at Quark's bar and part of a game called Dabo.

It's never totally explained.

There's a vibe and they play an important part in the infrastructure of Quark.

There's some illusions that there might be some, not necessarily direct sexual impact, but they're sexy.

She's having a cough.

Bashir checks her out.

He believes that she has a cold.

He's like, I know how to help you out.

Why don't you come back to the infirmary?

So, you know, he's being kind of, you know, as Angel used to say, Dr. Horny.

SAM

It was starting out like a 70s porn.

SCOTT

Yeah.

Like, oh, I have just the right thing for you.

And I was like, oh, come on.

Jadzia shows up and he like sends her a text message sort of to scram but she tells him that the Lexington is docking soon and says they're coming they're coming shortly Bashir is pretending like he doesn't know what's going on there and but the person there's a person on Lexington Dr. Lenz who is valedictorian at Bashir's school and Bashir was second there's a word for it but I forgot it

And we're then met with the best father and son duo, Jake and Ben.

And this, for many people, is the moment that everything turns around because Ben has grown a beard.

Yes.

Yes.

Just take that in.

Ben has come back from a Bajoran mission and talks of an 800-year-old spaceship that used light and wind rudders and all types of sails to travel and is almost legendary.

Rumor is it that this ship made it all the way to Cardassian space.

And Ben is like, I'm going to build this style of ship and I'm going to try it out.

Ben finds an area in the station where he can build it, and he decides to use the tools and the skills used 800 years ago, the techniques that the Bajoran artisans used.

He's larping.

He's going to do it the way it was done.

Miles is very skeptical that an 800-year-old ship using this sort of technology would work, and there's no way that

A trip like this with this kind of ship would make it all the way to Cardassia.

And this brings into this sort of tech argument about proof of other civilizations on Earth that are usually not white traveling to faraway places and finding tools.

And then people saying, nah, that didn't happen because the Cardassians are always claiming that

This never happened.

They're like, there's no way.

This could never be.

But Ben builds and builds.

There's totally a montage.

And Ben explains that the hardest part would be to get through the Denarius Belt.

But if he could do it, the trip would prove that the Bajorians did make this trip 800 years ago.

And the ship will be ready in about a week, so Ben asks his son Jake to join.

Jake says, nah, my girlfriend's going to be here, and I just want to be there, and you know, just go.

You just go.

And Ben tries to not be too disappointed, though Jadzia notes that

Ben is actually really excited and he hasn't been this jazzed since Jadzia was Curzon and Ben was building Jake's crib.

And he laments, Ben laments that Jake is growing up and really wishes that he would come because a year ago they were thick as thieves and Jake would have definitely come, no questions asked.

Jake gets a video message from New Zealand.

He doesn't say what it is, but he makes a face, and then he decides to go on the trip with Dad.

At the bar, Jedzia asks Bashir, what's wrong?

You know, Bashir and his homie Dr. Lenz from school are both very successful.

They're doing their thing.

They have really wonderful jobs.

And Bashir says that they were very competitive and she reminds him that he's second best.

The Ciscos plan to leave when Ben gets a video call from Gol Dukat.

Ben, and then we get a nice little montage vibe of father and son, Ben and Jake, just having a great time exploring the space in an old school ship boat.

You know, on some like Dungeons and Dragons, like, oh, we're just in a boat in space.

It's a pirate ship.

And Ben is the captain now.

And on the trip, Ben insists on doing everything old school.

They use bathrooms old school.

They drink old school.

They eat old school.

Everything that the ancient Bajorans would have done.

It's like the Paleo diet, but more awesome.

Then Ben is very excited to feel to be in an old school ship because they listen to the quietness.

There's no rumbling.

There's no purring.

Ben is so enamored by the simplicity and ingenuity of the ancient Bajorans.

And Ben just really thanks Jake for coming over and with him even though Jake didn't want to come.

And Jake, who as we know, has

On Deep Space Nine, Bashir is anxious.

Odo lets Bashir know that Dr. Lenz is at Quark's.

Bashir goes to Quark's and is being awkward and not saying hello.

There's even bets on what's going to happen between Bashir and Dr. Lenz, and most of the money is on Bashir dropping the ball and fumbling the bag.

She walks by him, pretending she doesn't know him.

Oof.

On the space boat, Ben finishes Jake's story.

Ben likes it, doesn't love it, but likes it.

He believes Jake has a lot of promise, but does question some of the story arcs and Jake's lived experience.

Jake really is disappointed that Ben doesn't think it's amazing, but Ben says,

It has promise, you're very talented, you're gonna make something amazing, but you need lived experience.

Jake reveals that

The video he got was a writing fellowship at a school in New Zealand.

Apparently Keiko, Miles' wife and former teacher on Deep Space Nine, had showed his writing to others and his work got submitted.

And just as they're about to talk about it more, something happens.

You think that the ship is not doing great, a sail is missing and they have to jettison a sprig.

Ben is worried that they're going to have to give up, but Jake points out that the Bajorans, using their paleo-scientist adventures, they dealt with the setbacks and they don't give up.

And the 90s computer effects go hard.

Miles and Bashir are drunk back on Deep Space Nine.

They're singing the hymn, Jerusalem.

Bashir wants to confront Dr. Lenz at Quarks, and Miles is like, you're drunk, man.

Why don't you not do that?

You know, maybe Dr. Lenz hates you, maybe Dr. Lenz loves you, but deal with it tomorrow.

Bashir agrees.

Back on the space boat, Ben and Jake are doing space boat things.

They break out some hammocks.

Ben congratulates Jake for getting into the writing program, and Jake reveals that he's going to take a year off and not go straight to school.

Ben tells Jake, you know, I get it.

My first year in Starfleet, I used to beam back to New Orleans, that's where his family's from, for dinner every night until I got used to it.

But Jake is also hesitant to go because he doesn't want his dad to be alone.

He wants his dad to date.

And Jake says he knows of a lady he'd like to set Ben up with.

And then Jake and Ben are very surprised because the ship just starts going into warp.

They're confused by the development.

The stales and the style of the ship did something with tachyons to science that made them go into warp, which is very abnormal for this type of ship.

They shouldn't be going into warp.

But when they get out of warp, they don't know where they are or where they're going.

because they didn't usually when these ships go warp they control it this was uncontrolled and Ben's like I give up I'm gonna send a distress signal to get saved

At Quarks, Bashir works up the courage to talk to Dr. Lenz.

It was all a miscommunication.

Dr. Lenz says that she always thought that Dr. Bashir was someone else.

She was pointed to somebody back in the day at school, and that's why.

She didn't try to avoid him.

She didn't know who he was.

They talk about their life and Dr. Lenz sort of expresses like she's not really enjoying what she's going through and is way more impressed with the work that Bashir has been doing on Bajor and the ship and Bashir offers to show Dr. Lenz his work and this causes Quark to win a bet.

On the boat, space boat ship, Jake starts worrying, but Ben assuages them.

Well, one of them starts worrying, and they get assuaged.

But Jake is going to bring a nice lady to meet Ben, and Ben agrees on stipulation that Jake goes to school.

But Jake explains that he is going to school, but as his dad pointed out,

Jake's like, I need to live some life, and there's no better place to live life than Deep Space Nine, but then I promise I'm going to go.

And then just as they're kind of getting ready to give up, they get a message and a video from Gul Dukat.

They are in Cardassian space.

They made it.

He reluctantly congratulates them and some ships show up to do some fireworks and announce that they actually now have proof that a certain crash site from 800 years ago was in fact a Bajoran ship.

And they're like, yay.

SAM

Now we're halfway to bald Cisco with a goatee.

So that's some good news, but I might have to poo-poo this episode a little bit.

That's okay.

So there was too much expository in this episode for my liking.

And also, whenever Jake is around, I don't have any hindsight bias where I could take all the goodwill I have from all the episodes I've watched for the later seasons and then project that onto this.

It's the other way, right?

We're working away from like season one, two and three and it's getting better, but I'm only working with what I have so far.

So whenever Jake is around, the topic is about women and needing a partner to be whole or not dating means something is wrong with you.

And so that

Cliché is starting to get old.

It's kind of becoming like this.

Yeah, cliché about Jake.

Jake at this point in DS9 is still very one-dimensional.

There hasn't been any character growth yet.

So he's been neglected by writers in my opinion.

Everyone loves how close Jake and Cisco are, but that's about it.

And I don't even know if we're really at those episodes yet.

It's more like this reminds them of those later episodes, I think, for fans.

But right now, Jake is more like Cisco's pet or teddy bear.

He doesn't really have personhood yet as a character.

So again, this is just a time capsule.

This is where I think Jake is by season 3 episode 22.

So this is where he is now and we'll compare as he grows, if he grows.

But I did like the message of this episode of doing things for fun rather than just utility, which is very much in line with how I think about play-based exploratory learning for martial arts.

And it's also how I parent.

Doing things is an experience.

So do things for the experience.

Build that ship for the sake of building it.

Do it because it's fun.

So I like that premise.

SCOTT

Do things to do them.

SAM

Yeah.

SCOTT

I...

I don't always love episodes of the week, but I think one, this episode had some really interesting undertones, and two, I think it really is fun and important to teach people the importance of play and doing things for pleasure and doing things in a way that might be a challenge.

You could go glamping or you can go camping.

And there's different levels of camping, but it can be really freeing and liberatory to just do something for fun, for joy, and use your intuition and skill and just also allow yourself some challenges.

Because, you know, talking about martial arts, I don't know what it's like to parent, though I'm looking forward to it, but I do enjoy every once in a while

Subtitles by the Amara.org community

revolutionary in its own way.

I think play and vacation and time off and any sort of role-playing games or card games or anything where you can escape yourself is a form of liberation and is a form of revolution in itself.

It's why I always try to argue with ne'er-do-wells who are like,

You know, you shouldn't take vacation.

You should just work.

And I'm like, no, dummy.

This is part of it all.

Or when people complain, oh, why are people that don't have a lot of money or are in debt going on vacation or buying a PlayStation?

And I'm like, this is a very bad argument.

I don't know why you're kissing the boots so hard.

Why do you believe that working class people or people that don't have a lot of money shouldn't enjoy things just because they work all the time?

It's such a bad argument and I love dismantling it because that's an easy argument for me to dismantle.

I'm not sure that I'm super equipped to talk about this, but there's also a revolution and freedom that I understand from people that explain that are in the kink community.

There's a lot of liberation there, and I think that is connected to freedom.

But again, I'm not as equipped to deal with that because that's not my life.

SAM

Now, we also in this episode learned more about Bashir's past.

But I'm pretty sure I remember from previous episodes, not even that long ago where Bashir talked about how he purposely held himself back in school, not doing his full potential because he didn't want that pressure or expectations.

But this episode indicates otherwise.

SCOTT

Or does it?

SAM

When people watch episodes,

You're going to have two different reactions from the people where this is like the first time they're watching this episode and they worked their way chronologically from beginning to this point versus they finished the whole thing and then now they're working backwards, right?

It's a dynamical system, right?

Because each watch is going to build upon itself.

Except for me, I have nothing to build on because this is my first watch.

So a lot of it wasn't that enjoyable for me.

SCOTT

Yeah, so I don't think this episode is particularly good.

And it is an episode that just gets us more along in the story.

But I just thought it had some cool threads.

I thought

This notion that the Bajorans had this paleo-scientific technology from a long time ago just reminded me of when the show came out.

I was in high school and I would watch – well, no, when the show came out, I wasn't in high school, but towards the end of the show –

I was in high school and was having a hard time, and what I looked forward to every Sunday night was on the WB.

Whoa.

Oh, yeah.

On the WB Sunday night, there was a triple block.

It was Deep Space Nine, Earth Final Conflict, and Andromeda.

Now, Andromeda Sucks is starring Kevin Sorbo, who just really turned out to be a huge disappointment.

And it also wasn't a good show.

Earth Final Conflict was a weird show, but this was just something I looked forward to every Sunday night.

Because I had trouble going to sleep as a teenager, I was troubled.

Through part of this, my father was alive.

Through part of it, my father had passed away.

Star Trek was a way that I connected to my father.

So this was just something I looked forward to.

But also, on Monday morning in the last year of Deep Space Nine, after my father had passed away, I had a class.

I went to

A alternative high school in New York City.

I had a teacher who taught African Studies, which was not part of the regular historical curriculum, would now be called CRT or whatever.

We can talk about this sometime, about moral panics and wolf whistles and how it's just objectively not good to deprive people of history and allow people to think critically.

And I think this is pushed forward by both people on the moderate left and right, because if we look at the Overton window, that's basically the same at this point.

I said it.

I said it.

SAM

If you think of it as a range, right, then it is the same.

SCOTT

You know, I was talking to my mom, who's slowly being pushed to my beliefs.

And I pointed out to her, I was like, mom, you know, Joe Biden and Donald Trump have almost identical politics, except when it comes to guns and abortion and some moral laws.

And she was like, oh my God, you know, you have a point.

I have to think about it.

But anywho, I had this teacher who taught African studies, who was a pan-African gentleman, and his passion was history.

And this is 1999.

This is a long time ago.

And he was teaching us about archaeology and sociology and ethnography and showed proof about

African tools being found in the Americas, and not because of Pangea, because it was also near places where boats would come, and was like, look, what you were taught, what everyone was taught, is not

All the way there.

And there's, you know, before there were European kings, there were already several dynasties in Egypt.

And just talked about all this amazing ingenuity and all this contact and proof of contact between civilizations way before we were born.

And then this denial that that couldn't have happened because really Leif Erikson was the first person to figure it out.

But then you learn more about the Polynesian Islands and all this amazing travel way before.

So that really just made me

There is lots of proof that there were African Vikings and that everyone was traveling the world and taking in people's culture.

And it just frustrates me.

When people try to discount the ingenuity of people.

SAM

But at the same time, I'm also sick of seeing Viking shit, period.

So there's that level of it too.

I think that in itself is problematic, right?

To your point, we're not learning about traveling from other cultures.

It's always like Eurocentric, but it's like diverse Eurocentric.

See, we had some Africans or whatever.

It's like, ah, I don't like that either, right?

It's like, just give me the other stuff.

This is like my fifth rerun about Vikings.

Give me some other shit now.

SCOTT

Yeah, I would like to learn way more about

Subtitles by the Amara.org community

SAM

is nothing without context you always experience not in a vacuum but in the context of your environment and everything else that is happening to you emotionally physically in your world all of it together contextualizes experience experience is nothing without context

And that is what we learn.

That is our experience.

Our view is an experience and that is contextualized by everything else.

I think watching something streaming is a very different experience than watching something on TV, watching a bunch of other stuff, waiting, anticipating, waiting through commercials and whatever.

And then also having a certain kind of day.

And so you have to watch it on a weekday versus streaming where you can watch it whenever.

That all changes the experience, and I think that's an important topic to talk about here.

It's something I'm always writing about for the Liberation Martial Arts Pedagogy about how nothing exists in a vacuum.

Everything is ultimately an experience, and experience is always contextualized, so there is no such thing as objective.

I think that was something I wanted to explore with this too, just different views.

Not just as different people, but coming from different contexts of having watched it before, having not watched it before, having watched it before for the first time at whatever the age you were

In that experience of watching it on TV, having to wait for it, having gone through school and whatever, and then this is the highlight and watching some other stuff that might not have been fun.

But then now, here are my friends.

I've been waiting for these people, the people I'm used to.

I'm returning back to that world.

That all is important context.

And I think for writers, especially when they were writing live in the moment during that time, they have to think about that.

They have to think about their audience, which isn't

Streamers, years later, they're thinking about the audience they've been fostering that whole time and how to write specifically for them.

Because it's actually like dehumanizing to decontextualize experience from the human experience, right?

Because then what are you separating?

The human element, right?

The human experienced it.

So there's no shame in even that.

And literally our brain, how we even learn is nonlinear.

SCOTT

I agree.

They give this episode like three and a half stars.

I might even start giving episodes three stars.

It's an unremarkable episode.

SAM

You also said your ratings are contextualized to the season, right?

Yes.

So like a three for season, let's say five is still better than a three in like season two.

SCOTT

Oh, absolutely.

Yes, so I'm sort of rating it by season, and these are the least strong seasons.

So I'm giving this episode like a 3, 3.5 in the contextualization of this season.

And next episode is Family Business, so we get a Ferengi episode.

SAM

Until then…