SDS9 – S4E5: "Indiscretion" (Audio + Transcript) (Patreon)

This episode was recorded on April 16, 2024.

Sam and Scott discuss "Indiscretion," where Kira Nerys goes on a mission with Gul Dukat, the Cardassian former overseer of Bajor, to look for survivors of a destroyed ship.

SDS9 seasons 1, 2, and 3 can be found wherever you stream Southpaw. Season 4 is only available to paid subscribers.

You can also listen to this episode directly from your favorite podcast player by following these instructions: https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/212055866-Subscribe-to-your-Audio-RSS-link-on-the-Patreon-app

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Transcript

[Note: Transcripts are autogenerated and may contain errors.]

We are back with Southpaw Deep Space Nine, Season 4. If you don't know what SDS9 is, it's Southpaw's completest DS9 watch-along show. where we watch every episode, recap it, and analyze it. We are your hosts, Scott and Sam. Scott is someone who's watched DS9 more than once,

whereas I'm someone who's casually watched some episodes when it first aired. But this is my first time watching each episode in earnest, or watching each episode while paying attention. One of the cool things about this is that it also gives us different perspectives. After we watch each episode, we come together and talk about it.

Scott gives us the play-by-play along with his insights, while I analyze scenes that stuck out for me from a political perspective or a media studies perspective. But before we discuss today's episode, I want to bring the listener's attention to a YouTube video by Jesse Gender titled, When Your Favorite Creator Turns Out To Be Pro-Israel.

It talks a lot about DS9, its flaws, like its Americanism, which we've talked a lot about here, but also what makes it good. It's a personal video essay from a Trekkie about what the show has meant to this creator and their disappointment in Ira Stephen Baer for supporting Israel and denouncing Jonathan Glazer's milquetoast Oscar speech on Gaza,

which was really a very centrist message But even that was too much for some in Hollywood. I don't feel any sort of way about Bear's Zionism because he was never a hero of mine. But for longtime fans of DS9, this video will probably resonate. But since I have no emotional or childhood attachment to this show,

I definitely am not going to hold back when I see stuff I want to call out. I can't speak to Jesse Jender's body of work. I've only seen this video. So don't take this as an endorsement or even as me saying I love every part of the video. I would have gone way harder.

But it's all context since this is deeply personal to the creator. And they also have a large fan base, much larger than ours, which means all sorts of political alignments. So the message has to be crafted with that in mind. I'm just suggesting this video, especially for longtime fans.

In today's episode of Southpaw Deep Space Nine, we are discussing indiscretion. Scott, can you tell us about this episode?

Well, right now, I want to tell you about why Jonathan Glazer's movie Zone of Interest is kind of bullshit. And it was a super mid speech that people are losing their minds over. But yes. We will talk about indiscretion, even though I'm not very discreet. A person named Raska Karn comes to talk to Kira.

Raska has picked up a lead on the Ravanaq. He is in the Badlands, the no-man's DMZ during the peace run by the Maquis. We've seen it a few times in the past. The Ravanaq is a Cardassian warship that may still be around. warship prison ship well i'm sure we'll learn more about it later six years before

deep space nine the ravenok was a prisoner cardassian ship that went missing and debris has been found lord akram who was on the ship was kira's friend who disappeared and kira's talking to odo and we're presuming that odo is going to tell her not to do it but i was like good luck go off king cisco

asks that someone come with Kira to find the Ravnok, the new Cardassian civilian government, which we know was developed at the beginning of Season 4 due to the attack by the Klingons at the Cardassian space, thinking that the Cardassians are part of the Dominion. They have asked to cooperate. Sisko asks for diplomacy.

Kira agrees, but decides that the Cardassians have two days and a little change to come to the U.S.A. side for the mission. Dax and Cisco talk. Cassidy and Cisco are heating up. Cassidy was supposed to leave on a trip, but it looks that she might switch to working on a Bajoran freighter. She's like a freight captain.

That's her jam. Her and Cisco, Ben, have started dating a few episodes ago. And Jadzia invites Cassidy to live on these Space Niners. They have lots of space. And Jadzia knows that Cassidy and Sisko like each other. On Ops, Dukat beams on board for the mission.

On a runabout, Dukat and Kira have about six hours before they get to the Badlands. Kira is not happy about this. Dukat was a real, he's a war criminal. He's a bad person. Kira explains that on this ship, Dukat needs to heed her command. And Dukat says they're good.

Dukat was sent largely because the Rabanak was his ship that he sort of was in control of. Kira explains that she is hoping to find Akram, her friend. Akram was Kira's resistance leader who got her into the resistance and sort of helped create the freedom fighter who Kira is. And, um, you know, Cardassian, not Cardassian,

Ducat says Kira is a Bajoran born out of the ashes of the revolution, a Cardassian tempered steel warrior. And Kira's like, shut up. Dukat offers that Bajor is stronger due to the occupation, sort of occupation apologism. And while Cardassia may have been a little brutal, Dukat believes that Cardassia will be allies and one day friends with Bajor.

Kira says, maybe, but I hate you. Please shut up. And Dukat agrees to shut up. We see Cassidy and Cisco having a dinner date. Cisco makes food. That's sort of the thing that he does. His father is a chef in New Orleans. Cassidy was offered the job, and Cisco is being sheepish, nervous, aloof.

He's not being enthusiastic, according to Cassidy. He says something that's not very popular. Cassidy thinks Cisco is afraid of commitment and is upset. and feels Sisko doesn't want her. She leaves dinner. At the Badlands, Dukat and Tira scan the Debris. Dukat and Karm talk a lot of crap to each other.

The Maquis would like Dukat, and Dukat would like Karm. Karm reminds all that Dukat is pretty much a war criminal. The Debris was found on the Desarius system, where there is an M-class planet, or as they say, an M-ish class planet. Kira does not understand why the Ravnok is so far away. The planet is rough to land.

They go for a manual land on this hot, dry planet. As we know, Bajorans, for the most part, don't really like dry heat. The Cardassians do. The squad finds the Ravnok in pieces. Then we see Jadzier, Bashir, and Sisko have drinks and agree that Sisko fumbled the bag.

Jadzia thinks Cisco needs to explain that he is sorry, and Kort gives terrible advice. Cisco isn't sure how to feel. Jadzia and Bashir agree it's a big step, and that was the thing that Cisco said in response to Cassidy moving. He said, that's a big step. Back on the Ravnok, it appears there was a firefight.

They see 12 graves buried by rock. Dukat needs to survey the bodies, and for the spirituality of the Cardassians, it is important to handle bodies in a certain way, where Bajorans are like, your soul isn't in the bodies. You can do whatever you want, but Kira's like, let me know about the earrings,

because each family has a different earring, so she can sort of identify who's there. On the Ravana, Kira looks. Dukat finds the bodies. He's upset. Tora is the person that he finds. She was Dukat's friend and Bajoran mistress. Dukat says it was real love.

Kira is dubious, sort of points out the power dynamics involved in that sort of relationship and that In the ground, both Cardassians and Bajorans are buried, and her buddy is in the burials. And it's clear that two battleships must have blasted the Ravnok. But Kira is like, well,

all Bajorans that were rebels in the occupation had isotopes implanted in their bodies for them to be found if lost. So she can find him. Kira and Dukat go to look for them. They take a rest. Dukat sits on a spike. Comedy ensues. Kira gives him a skin regenerator. They laugh.

Kira asks about a Cardassian on a logbook, Zayal. Dukat is her father. He hopes she's not alive, as he will have to kill her. It's her existence as being a daughter outside of marriage. He's married with many kids, and she's half Bajoran. So he's like, I'm going to kill her. Kira says that's not going to happen.

And Kira says that she'll take care of Zayal. And Dukat believes that Dukat sent them on the ship to save them. But Dukat explains that And we've seen it a little bit before. Basically, Bajoran-Cardassian children aren't treated well by either groups. It's just not a good experience. And Keir's like, no.

On Deep Space Nine, Sisko sees his son, Jacob. Jacob ran into Cassidy. She tells him she's not going to take the job because Ben doesn't want her to take it. Ben says it's complicated. Jake says it's not. Ben feels pressure to make sure things are okay and worries if it doesn't work out, it's his fault.

And Jake's like, you have to try. It's okay. What's the worst that could happen? You have to take risks to live life. And all this was figured out with Nog's help, with much to Ben's chagrin. On the desert planet, they find the Breen. They're a race of aliens that have been talked, up to this point,

have been talked about, but have never been seen before. They wear these helmets. We don't know what's under the helmets. It's a dilithium mine, and they're using the survivors to get the resources out of the mines. And Zael is there and they have to rescue him. And Kira's like, I will kill you, Dukat, if you hurt her.

And Akram is revealed to have died. The prisoners are confused why Dukat is there. And Kira explains that the war is over and they're super hyped. They take over the Breen. Dukat finds Zayal and puts out his gun. And Zayal was told by the Cardassian prisoners that she would die at his hands and

is disappointed as all that kept her alive is her love for her father. And she accepts her fate and is like, look, if you're going to do it, you're going to do it. But Dukat can't do it. And he embraces her.

On Deep Space Nine, Cisco comes to Cassidy and asks her to take the job and wants her to take the job. Ben apologizes. He was very happy, but translated his excitement through being nervous. He hasn't been in a serious relationship in a lot of time and didn't expect such.

He thought he was going to be single for a while until he met Cassidy. And he doesn't want Cassidy to get hurt like his wife. He feels sort of responsible for the death of Cassidy. You know, Jake's mother. Cassie reveals that she already took the job. She wasn't going to give up the opportunity because of him.

That was her ambition. It's a good job. And he's an idiot. And they're going to be all right. And yeah, they just talk about making plans. Jadzia asks Kira about the trip when they see Dukat. Dukat thanks her. He's going to bring Zael back to Cardassia,

knowing full well that it'll mess up his reputation and he doesn't care.

So this is a very odd episode for me. I don't even know if I like it. There's an 80s movie called Enemy Mind. And this episode was basically that movie, including the rescue of a child in the mine.

Don't you dare try to compare that to Enemy Mine. Enemy Mine is a classic. Enemy Mine is an awesome 80s film that I have always wished they would remake into a short series. It is awesome.

This is a rip-off. This is a bad rip-off.

I don't even see it. I don't think so. You're allowed to have that opinion. I disagree. But I'm glad you talked about that movie.

So even the high concept That was interesting. I had seen before, but the execution wasn't all that great, though I did like the acting quite a bit, especially by Ducat and Kira. You have Ducat early on saying colonialism was good, actually, which you still hear today.

Even if you don't hear that explicitly, that's the foundation of the West. Their pride in themselves comes from believing colonialism is ultimately good and made the modern world and the world westernized. This is the underlying argument for every western government and the basis for why they are our moral authorities.

They became moral authorities as colonizers and that never changed. But western liberals who can write this stuff or even point out this contradiction lack the self-awareness to apply it to themselves. Even if they think they're calling out the U.S. or the West, it lacks any conviction or any depth because they don't really think about what

that really means. Or if you really meant it, what should be the logical consequence or conclusion of that belief? They call out stuff about conservatives without any self-awareness that the stuff they are saying also applies to them. This plays into this episode where you have a colonizer and colonized becoming the odd couple. Lots of oddness, right?

Then you add in some Romeo and Juliet with Ducat and one of his enslaved prisoners. It's like a political writing salad only liberals can conjure, but it plays to that liberal message that we should all get along. White supremacists and the people they victimize. I can't even call this childish because it insults children,

but it's non-materialist and completely gaslights and ignores harm and damage. So going back to Glazer's speech and the response to that speech, Glazer is saying both sides have done wrong and he needs to stop. And the people denouncing him are saying the press should have just gotten along like the odd couple rather than resist.

This episode plays into all of that, all the different variations of centrism. The line between centrism and fascism is none, which goes to Ducat's actions and bears seemingly resembling Ducat without the redemption arc at the end of this episode. We go from the odd couple and just the difference in opinions, centrism,

to Ducat wanting to kill his own daughter. Just odd writing. Centrism and fascism, it's all a blur. It's as mystifying from a writing perspective as Baer supporting Israel. I guess it made sense to Baer. Then he, Dukat, quickly changed his mind to save his daughter. It was forced. They had plot points they had to hit.

And rather than take us there with writing, they just shoehorned those points in. But I guess it needed that happy ending, which is more a feature of Hollywood than real life or Hollywood people in real life. The episode felt like liberal propaganda. There was the making of a conversation about how capitalism makes parents put career over kids.

But that conversation never really materialized. But I'll just make that point. Capitalism turns lots of parents into little ducats with their children. capitalism subsumes all our behaviors and doesn't make any positive contribution to people being more humane to each other. Full stop. I like to think I'm a good parent,

but I can guarantee I'd be an even better parent without capitalism, without the time constraints, without the worry of money. I do a lot of gentle parenting, but based on time constraints is really hard because a lot of it is about being patient, but capitalism doesn't allow for patience. One of my friends calls it villain time,

where you're always on the villain's time schedule and that villain being capitalism. Full stop, that's it. What I did like about this episode was the acting and I am a sucker for mushy moments. So I guess for me, this episode lacks substance

But it did have some feels and I definitely had some feels that might be a flaw of mine. Scott, what did you think and how did you rate this?

So this episode is important because it introduces us to Zayal. She is important in the story. I don't know if I can. I mean, she she this isn't a one and done for her. she shows up, and she's an incredible character, and I don't want to say too much aside from that the episode's cool,

because we're introduced to Zayel, and we finally see the Breen, and there's some very good acting, but Trying to have Kira and Dukat be buddy-buddy doesn't really work for me. It did not work. I do see how people might be friendly with each other or courteous on a ship, but I just don't really see it.

And you can't get me to think that Dukat is a good guy. And I wonder, so let me ask you a question. What do you think of Ducat right now after this episode?

Well, here's the thing, right? Intellectually, he's evil and I shouldn't like him, right? But this is also media. So a lot of how I feel, a lot of people, how viewers feel is manipulated. They're manipulating it with writing and there's been moments where especially in this episode, but he had a lot of moments also with Cisco,

where it's just like kind of friendly, like we hate each other, but we don't, we respect each other, kind of like banter that's meant to be funny and kind of like charming. So yeah, I do feel manipulated to somewhat liking him, right? Especially in this episode,

it's not even that he felt more three-dimensional because he always felt three-dimensional, but it felt like you know, in pro wrestling terms, right? He was written like a face. And there's been other times where he's been kind of written like a face, you know, like almost like a stone cold, like heelish face kind of character, right?

Where it's like the baddish guy that you're supposed to sort of like the bad boy kind of thing. But this episode, definitely he was written like a face. So if I think about it, I don't like him, but you know, while watching it were there moments i liked them of course i think that's what

they wanted remember that but i give the episode like a three uh it really it really does it really didn't do it for me i really upset me i didn't enjoy watching it i i think about giving it more just because of mythology, but I just think it's not that great of an episode.

Scott, can you tell us about the next episode?

Let's just say that Jadzia gets a blast from the past.

Until then...