SDS9 – S3E17: "Visionary" (Audio + Transcript) (Patreon)

Note to Listeners:

Southpaw: Deep Space Nine is back from hiatus!

This episode was recorded months before the Hollywood Writer's Strike, which began in May 2023. But in solidarity with the writers, we stopped releasing new episodes of Southpaw: Deep Space Nine. However, since the increased genocide of Palestinians, Hollywood has lost all of the goodwill it garnered during the strikes. Palestine has been a lens we used for Deep Space Nine since episode one of our watch-along series, but now that it's in everyone's consciousness, it's a great time to bring this series back from hiatus and record new episodes with Palestine in mind. Keep thinking and talking about Palestine.

Episode Description:

In this episode of Southpaw: Deep Space Nine, Sam and Scott delve into "Visionary," where Miles O'Brien begins having visions of the future after an accident, while a delegation from the Romulan Empire visits the station.

Find seasons 1 and 2 on the Southpaw podcast stream. Find the rest of season 3 on Patreon.

You can also listen to this episode directly from your favorite podcast player by following these instructions: https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/212055866-Subscribe-to-your-Audio-RSS-link-on-the-Patreon-app

(Note: Many phone plans come with Paramount+ for free. It can also come with your cable package, credit card, or in a bundle, so make sure to double-check. There are also other ways to watch DS9 that we're sure you internet space explorers can figure out. Otherwise, since Scott does such an excellent job with the play-by-play, you don't have to watch the episodes to enjoy our breakdowns.)

Transcript

[Note: Transcripts are autogenerated and may contain errors.]

SAM

This is Southpaw Deep Space Nine Season 3, where we analyze Deep Space Nine and Star Trek from a political and historical lens, episode by episode.

I'm watching DS9 with fresh eyes, and Scott is our veteran Trek fan.

We are discussing Season 3 of DS9, Episode 17 – Visionary.

Mr. Scott, tell us about this episode.

SCOTT

Well, we have gotten to it.

We've gotten to some clinkers, some episodes, you know.

You would have thought we're back in Season 2 with these ones, but we're here and we're completists.

We're doing every episode, so we're going to do them.

SAM

We're going to do it.

SCOTT

We're going to do it.

So Miles wakes up to Bashir checking him out.

He had had slight radiation poisoning.

He is given medicine and told to do light duty even though there is delegation of Romulans on the way.

On the promenade, Sisko and Odo see some Klingons who are on the base as well.

Odo is told to keep an eye on any intoxicated Klingons.

Sisko and the team meet the Romulan delegate which is Ruan and his aide Karina and his team and they want to know Dominion intel.

They are just trying to get down to business

as soon as possible.

As you know, well, most people know they gave some of their tech for the Defiant and for, you know, to have cloaking tech for, to deal with the Dominion.

So they're trying to get back some information.

And that's sort of how the Romulans do their, they trade information, intelligence, tech, all that stuff.

Then we show Miles is showing Quark how to play darts, explaining that it's a great game.

But as he throws a dart, he sort of flashes to the future of some unknown time where he sees himself telling Quark to be mindful of the Klingon visitors.

And then Miles and other Miles lock eyes.

But then Miles comes to, shoots a dart and passes out.

Bashir says it's probably a side effect of the radiation poisoning.

The Romulans and Kira and Sisko are discussing matters.

The Romulans really wish, they want to know really everything that is going on and they are not satisfied with what they're being answered.

They think that Odo knows more than he leads on because he is a founder even though he, Odo is not really interested in being part of the Changeling world at this point.

Again, the Romulans are reminding, like, we gave you this cloaking tech, we need intel, you're not giving us a lot of intel.

Just, like, give us some juicy gossip now.

And then Miles goes to see Quark, and the exact situation that he saw earlier unfolds, and then Quark also sees the other Miles as well.

Miles goes to see Dax and Cisco who conclude that these little future visits probably, definitely happened and maybe the radiation has something to do with it.

Dax is explaining, when Dax is explaining this, Miles visits another future.

There's a bar fight at Quarks that he jumps in.

He passes out again after the travel.

Kira comes to see Cisco because the Romulans want access to the Defiant Logs and the personal logs of everybody and just, again, they really want a lot of information.

If you've ever tried to sign a lease, what the landlord asks is about as terrible as what these Romulan guys are looking for.

FICO score is just not enough.

Cisco allows

Liberation Martial Artist

Going through every single encounter, step by step by step, trying to understand what is going on.

Kira is so annoyed that she's ready to give the cloaking device back.

And they have questions about Odo and Kira being more than friends.

Kira, at this point, I don't think is really aware of the feelings she may have for Odo, but we know that Odo does have feelings for Kira.

This has been set up a bunch of times in previous episodes.

How many different Miles are there?

How often do we just deal with different Miles?

This feels like a thing.

He goes to another future as this happens and sees another Miles gets laser blasted.

Blasted dead.

Another dead Miles.

The team go to the area that blasted Miles and try to fix it.

The panel, so far, has not been turned into a blaster yet, but every jump is about five hours or so, so in five hours there will be something there.

Dax has Miles come on up, she thinks she's figured out something.

Dax starts scanning bandwidths and finds a singularity that could create a time magnet that is pulling him into the future.

If they find the singularity they can stop the time jumps.

The Romulans are being moved to new quarters, that's where the blast was that killed future Miles.

So someone beamed the blaster, probably from within the station, to attack someone.

They probably wanted to attack the Romulan delegates, not Miles, but who can be so sure?

Odo is investigating everyone, including Cork.

Yes, he always investigates Cork, no matter what.

Miles is talking about the strangeness of cradling his own lifeless body.

Cork asks him to remember any good gambling tips, some dabo tips, and Miles gets upset, but then he jumps again.

and finds another dead Myles.

Future Bashir however is expecting this Myles and says the autopsy showed some issues and radiation.

Bashir tells Myles to go into the past and tell past Bashir to do a bacilar arterial scan.

Back to Odo and Sisko they have found the room that beamed the tech to

Different places, they turned the replicator into a transporter.

The device was made on Davlos which does work with the Klingons.

Odo spoke with some Klingon operatives who said the Klingons on the station are part of a high-level surveillance intelligence op and this is enough info to bring in the Klingons and sort of get them out of the picture.

They're upset but it is what it is.

Back to Miles, they have found the singularity.

It is orbiting the station and radiates wavelengths that cause the jumps.

This takes them to another jump.

where people are escaping this station that's blowing up.

Another timeline.

Each jump creates a different problem.

Miles can't parse what type of explosion it was.

They decide to send Miles into a smaller time shift, not 5 hours but a few hours, using isotopes in his system.

Miles has a letter for Keiko if all goes wrong.

which seems to be happening a lot.

Miles goes to the future a few hours.

Miles wakes up Miles.

I know it's confusing.

Bear with me.

Miles wakes up Miles to save the ship and go back in time.

The systems are going bad.

They are being attacked.

The singularity is the Romulans.

They are using it to protect the warp core.

They are cloaked there somewhere.

The main Miles that we know is dying from radiation and gives future Miles the data to go and warn the team of the Romulans.

So Miles kind of dies.

Back in the past Bashir realizes this is a new old Miles.

Sisko and team go meet the Romulans and accuse them of having a cloaked warbird and are ready to attack Deep Space Nine and collapse the wormhole.

Because this is the easiest way in their mind to stop the threat of the Dominion.

No wormhole, no Dominion.

Collateral damage.

Boom boom boom.

The Romulans feign ignorance, but Sisko points out that he has a bunch of torpedoes ready to blast if they want war.

The Romulans leave.

Miles and Bashir play darts, and Miles is getting used to being a slightly older Miles.

And no one's really pointing out the fact that Miles died, but whatever.

I mean, how many Miles have we seen die at this point?

And then Miles goes up to Quark and he whispers Dabo in Quark's ear to let him know that he does remember how some of the games of the future go.

SAM

Lighthearted ending for an episode that's actually not lighthearted if you actually think about it.

SCOTT

Not at all.

SAM

So let's start with a short minor scene that is the perfect allegory for police and state.

Cisco pulls Odo aside to keep an eye on a particular alien race, Klingons.

Odo agrees and takes the Klingon from Quarx to the holding cell.

Odo represents police who are in actuality just extensions of the state, represented by Cisco and Starfleet.

The police are the end product, not the root.

They're the master's tools, not the master.

The police are reflections of the system it represents.

So when I say state, I mean the root system the police represent.

If you study QAnon, which now there is a lot of research on, which builds on previous research about far-right ideologies,

All the experts say it's decentralized, which is what makes it so dangerous and hard to stop.

If QAnon had volunteers in charge of safety, it would become fascist police with a different name.

The Marine who killed Jordan Neely is a pig even though he's not deputized police.

Everyone involved in that and the people who just watched were police.

The history of US lynchings, they all acted as police.

It's not about the structure, but rather the culture the system reflects, the results, the consequences, the actions make the role.

To give another example, I've been in plenty of toxic martial arts gyms.

This is how Southpaw is able to analyze the martial arts world.

It comes from experience and years of analysis.

But the most toxic and violent schools I belong to or have been in were the schools with no leadership.

I've been in schools with toxic leadership, so don't get it twisted, but somehow people, by people I mean Westerners raised on George Orwell, have it in their heads that so long as there is no leader, things will be good.

Free market.

When in reality, that's not a solution to a problem.

is just another way to organize the same problem, Lord of the Flies, which is also a reflection of British culture.

So even without leadership, if it's the same culture, the same root, it'll replicate and adapt to whatever new conditions, like any invasive plant would, like some religions have, like conspiracies have,

I mean, white supremacy has no leader.

It's leaderless and decentralized, which is why it's so fucking scary and effective and so far unstoppable.

And because it adapts, it's also why it's a challenge to often recognize unless you stop looking at the symptoms and look at the root.

In this episode, to ensure law and order, Starfleet even brings along their own security guards.

Because they don't trust Odo.

Scott, did you have any thoughts on this topic of the chain of command and the police on this rewatch of DS9?

SCOTT

I think as I'm rethinking my thoughts about power and control and systems, that every rewatch of everything changes the way I unpack things.

Because yeah, there's literal cops and then there's

spiritual cops like de facto cops de facto cops you know i saw a tiktok that tried to suggest that the brothers in full metal alchemist brotherhood are cops you know and that's one of my favorite shows of all time and i was like wait are they i have to think about so there is this sort of

So to be able to adapt and see how some things are changing

SAM

What I suggest to people is look at the root, not at the role, but the actions, the consequences.

Because the names can change and the names too often fool people or they get too hung up on them.

And they're not that meaningful because names, words just exist in our head.

What actually matters is the things that are happening and the power dynamics that are playing out and the results.

The actual material conditions that are being formed.

and material consequences.

Now, what else is interesting in this episode?

They use their knowledge of the future to do policing today, which is something that existed already for a while with predictive policing.

And now with AI, it's going to get worse because they're working on using AI to read thoughts through brain scans.

But I'm sure they're also working on using algorithms to analyze behavior, especially online, to determine thoughts.

So here, what's being presented as a helpful tool, foresight, is also how it's presented today to get more funding and more development.

But we all know, especially in the hands of the U.S., nothing good will come of this.

Even in this episode, the Klingons are being blamed for a future crime they didn't commit.

It seems like we're in an accelerating period where a lot of old novel ideas and sci-fi are happening, like the horror movie Megan with an emotional support bot.

Well, that's already become a reality.

What do you think about predictive policing, mind reading, Boston Robotics police dogs that now incorporate chat GBT?

Scott, because I know this stuff scares you, but old sci-fi seems to keep describing our now.

SCOTT

Yeah, I mean, when we talk about these things, I sometimes have panic attacks after we record.

The fact that, I mean, it doesn't surprise me that they're starting to connect chat GPT to those police dogs.

But as smart as AI is, it's still very buggy, and very imperfect, and not who we want, arbitrating law.

SAM

It's the perfect cover, right?

Plausible deniability.

SCOTT

Plausible deniability.

And it's only a matter of time where before one of these police dogs does something bad and then they have to revisit everything.

So I don't think that what AI looks like now is going to be what AI is.

It's too early.

As far as reading minds and things of that nature, I'm sure that'll happen.

I'm sure there is a way that we'll be able to figure out how to use nanobots and AI to restore brain cells.

And I'm certain that we will be able to use AI and certain things to heal Alzheimer's in the future.

One day.

SAM

They use dreams, dream analysis, hidden memories, suppressed memories, all that as quote-unquote scientific ways to get to the truth.

And now we know all of that was bullshit, right?

So the same thing with mind reading.

It doesn't have to be real.

It just has to seem plausible that it's real.

And until it gets debunked, which might take a long, long, long, long time, they could do a lot of shit in that meantime.

SCOTT

Right.

And also, like, you never know what we're going to find out or what we don't find out, you know.

Did you ever read that book, Chaos?

Well, it's about the first Charlie Manson murders.

Well, the more famous one with Sharon Tate, you know.

And it posits with a lot of good evidence that

You know, Charles Manson was an op, was, was part of a program of, they were taking counterculture people and teaching them how to brainwash people through the use of acid.

SAM

Well, he was confirmed part of MKUltra.

Right.

That is true.

SCOTT

And this is just, it unpacks more and why he may have been able to do what he did without a lot of oversight, because of the idea of

what the government may or may not be doing with mind control.

So if it could be done with computers, it will be.

SAM

So to clarify for listeners, Scott is connecting the dots that the US government has been interested in mind control for a long time.

That goes way back to the Korean War.

And it was like in conjunction with German warfare.

So it was all part of biological terrorism, biological warfare, because you're

Trying to mess with the biology and control the biology to mess with the psyche of people that you want to oppress or harm, right?

So even biological weapons, it's meant to terrify and terrorize and affect the psyche.

They did this in Vietnam as well.

Not with biological weapons, but they used other social means, social engineering.

They even like

did the awful like hate crime slash war crime of using pretend voices of dead ancestors to fuck with the Vietnamese people.

They did this in the Philippines.

So this is all part of like a long history of them trying to get to mind control and it's something they've never stopped.

There's no evidence.

There's no declaration.

There was no congressional thing that said, hey, we're going to stop now.

The thing is, is information in this country

Now going back to time travel, mirror universes, and doppelgangers.

This episode, to your point, was another mindfuck because here we find out explicitly that the real O'Brien died and has been replaced by a different O'Brien from an alternate timeline.

But no one even mourns the death of the real O'Brien.

The real O'Brien thinks somebody's going to hand that letter to his wife, Keiko, and she's never going to get it.

and uh he's thinking oh people are gonna mourn me they're gonna give that letter i'm gonna get a good send off i died and i will be remembered and it was all for a good cause when now nobody's gonna know he died and he died for nothing and they're just gonna pretend he didn't die uh they just did the old switcheroo

I remember in a previous Doppelganger episode, I said there was a possibility the real O'Brien could have been killed because they are identical in every way, but we don't know for sure, whereas here we do know.

But it was handled so nonchalantly, so comically, like they really don't give a fuck about O'Brien.

They don't.

But also from now on, the real O'Brien is dead and it's the alternate timeline O'Brien who has taken over.

So as far as canon or when speaking about DS9, there's actually two O'Briens.

Original Timeline and Alternate Timeline.

It's like how you talk about Cisco before he shaves his head, after he shaves his head, Riker before the beard, after the beard.

This is like O'Brien, Timeline 1 or Timeline 2.

And I guess Timeline 2

O'Brien is when DS9 really starts to get good.

They just had to kill the original O'Brien to do it.

SCOTT

And it's like, even in the next few episodes, you got some interesting O'Brien coming up.

There's a lot of O'Brien.

SAM

Okay.

Now the philosophical question is, can a really accurate copy of you be you?

Like, should we treat identical twins as the same person?

No, they're still different people.

And just because it's an O'Brien doesn't mean it's the same O'Brien.

It's a different person who happens to have the same name.

But the O'Brien we as fans have grown to know and love has died and metaphorically his twin brother has taken his place.

Like Thomas Riker replacing Riker.

Scott, what did you think about this weird storyline that they just kind of put in here for really no reason it seems like other than shits and giggles?

SCOTT

It was, it really upset me and annoyed me.

I disliked this episode.

This episode gets two and a half out of five stars.

There's nothing I like about this episode.

SAM

That part really pissed me off because it was also pointless.

They didn't need to do that.

And then they treated it like it didn't happen.

So then it really had no point.

SCOTT

It was a very meaningless way to do something very meaningful.

You know, it was also mean and cruel, right?

Because because like you're you killed O'Brien again, because O'Brien dies all the time on this show.

SAM

They put a really important part of the canon in a joke episode that doesn't even matter.

And people won't even remember this part of the canon because nobody gives a shit about this episode.

SCOTT

Most people don't watch this episode.

I haven't watched this episode in 25 years.

I bet you even if you googled Miles O'Brien dead, they're not going to bring this up.

They're not even going to consider it because it's like, it's just Miles O'Brien.

It's like a two hours older Miles O'Brien.

SAM

It reminds me of that Simpsons episode where his co-worker dies and then nobody gives a fuck and it's like the whole joke is that the next episode they're just gonna reset and nobody's gonna remember this guy.

Now, episodes about O'Brien suffering, him having doubles, time travel, it's all recurring themes.

We just had time travel episodes with past tense not long ago.

So revisiting this theme again, you have to make it interesting.

And it sounds like you didn't think it was that interesting.

And as far as mythology, it's like, yes, it was mythological, right?

But then it wasn't because nobody counts it because they put it into a non-mythology episode.

It's just kind of a mess.

It's kind of like one of those episodes you should just remove from the series because it's just makes the series more confusing and weird.

So yeah, we almost have to pretend we didn't see this episode.

That's what I'm going to do.

Scott, can you tell us about the next episode?

SCOTT

Distant Voices.

Bashir is going through some things.

SAM

Until then.