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Shogun Ep 8 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-04-11 22:47:40
Edited:
2024-04-11 22:57:41
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

We dont even know if man is really sick or if this is another play lol

Comments

Mavereth

Nigga what you mean episode 3 😂?

Jappa

Dyslexia has entered the chat

Aries

Toranaga had to make his defeat look real that’s why when Hiromatsu saw the generals about to rebel against him he switched by saying this is between me and him , he knew he had to die in order to save the generals , his son and Toranaga even said it himself Hiromatsu knew his duty well, Toranaga’s son dying was just a coincidence that helped him have more time to live longer most of Toranaga’s plan go well but other people fuck it up. I felt bad for Buntaro this episode but he is still not forgiven for his other actions.

YaBoyRoshi

Yall leave me alone its been a long day 😭

Killjoy

Nigga roshi sent us to the sengoku era with that title😂😂

Joe Mens

😂😂all good

HIM

Lmao 🤣 yall are ruthless 🤣

Buu-Buu

Yabu's Death (ranking) note💀

Franklin wasn't getting away with 35mil scott free

This bitch Buntaro man. He takes his perceived end of his life (Toronaga's supposed defeat) to start ATTEMPTING to show his wife some grace, and kindness... after beating her ass not 1 week ago!? I DESPISE this man.

Zakai

are u guys gonna watch Dune part 2?

Ginger Dwarf

Please NEVER stop doing blackthorne / anjin impressions. I'm cracking up each time

bleach

Toranaga is on another level man 5-D chess

mason zeo

Yall seemed to think that the lady who died was Ochiba mom. She was the late Lords wife who "trained" Ochiba to have a kid. That's why she said tell OUR son. She's speaking of Ochiba's son but also her husband's only kid. So in that way he was hers too as the main wife.

naa

Couldn’t Toranaga just launch crimson sky from within Osaka? Like pretend to accept defeat then attack and seize power once he gets there? (Sorry if this is covered later on I haven’t finished the episode yet)

Magical Drinking

The Seppuku moment was one of the greatest scenes I've seen in any show ever. It's the culmination of all of the themes and ideas the show has been exploring. The writing, acting, directing, editing of it were all simply incredible. I can't remember the last time I was that on the edge of my seat. And then the reveal that Toranaga didn't want him to die but had to let him to truly sell his ruse as real to Osaka!

Magical Drinking

I think that is the idea and why Hiromatsu had to commit Seppuku. If he's willing to let his oldest friend and most trusted general kill himself then he must be truly beat and they will let their guard down.

Franklin wasn't getting away with 35mil scott free

Mariko needs to get off her high horse ngl. She's pretending like John is betraying Toronaga as if he should have undying loyalty to a man he met a couple of months ago, when his impression of Toronaga is of someone that has given up and is ready to condemn all his men to death. Then she refuses to implicitly explain to him 'Hey, Toronaga isn't giving up - he has something planned' acting like he should just read people's minds and speak fluent Japanese WHEN HE DOESN'T HAVE THE INSIDE INFORMATION.

Freeofgreed

Naw Lupa is right on the money. That nigga ain't sick 😂

Teyon Alexander

It’s like that priest in prison told John, you can’t play their game they’re too many levels deep for that.

A

I think Yabushige was in the dark but knew his friend well enough to know SOMETHING was at play. Toranaga said war is meaningless death so the emphasis on "So you DO believe in meaningless death" was to indicate Hiromatsu knew Toranaga is prepping for war.

Wildcat Cinema

Just some insight here… Buntaro did actually love Mariko, and his order for her to live in his head was to offer her a new life alongside him. But, like him, she wanted to die with her father and to her he denied her that honor. He thought that she would be grateful but she returned only spite. And during their time together, he became who we see today. The Tea ceremony and his father’s denial, is his realization that he went about things in not just an awful way but didn’t understand what it is that she truly wanted. Now, he knows that his ‘good relationship’ was never really there

Leon

Yabushige the goat

A

They have to get to Osaka first. If there's ANY indication that Toranaga wants war, then the other armies will just sweep them and be done wit it. Honestly, this series does a great job at pointing out inefficiencies within the culture and their law that Toranaga uses to his advantage (the 5 elders, the 49 days or mourning, the honor of seppuku that he's owed) . But also remember, he can't be perceived as attacking the heir, only Ishido, so that also complicates things since the heir's mother is basically in charge of his army via controlling him

Guav

Second time watching and now i understand hirmatsus quote about pointless death, this show is so good

nicci

I think what's interesting though is that time and time again we are told that Toranaga sama thinks of everything and we all try to keep up with him but not one of us, the viewers or his subordinates think of how Toranaga is thinking of the future. First if man's blows up Osaka with guns and canons and uses force instead of loyalty to take the throne those Sumarai types their families and all their mothers will die fighting rather than submit to the treacherous vassal ...and then ultimately what will Toranaga have to rule over? Also didn't that messenger of Ishido's die saying something like killing other sumarai by way of cannons is disgraceful? If nigga wins like a barbarian I bet he will just be as hated as the last dude before the Taiko and some other Akechi Jinsai and Toranaga will risk it all to topple him. Lastly if he fights and takes over power all his "loyal and meritorious" vassals will likely also get a boost in status and no matter what they would all put their walls up high to make sure they appear loyal (I'm looking at you Yabushige lol) but now in this tough time by seeing who stands with him and who flakes he can sleep better at night knowing that of all his enemies at least he remained with the loyal ones and those that left can't now come back and say they were with him coz they left of their own accord. Nigga really be scheming what to do with his wins before he's even started fighting I bet.

nicci

I get what you're saying but then wouldn't it be selfish obsession instead of love to begin with anyway? Sheera had a point earlier on when she said that Buntaro was happy at the beginning but Mariko may never have been, if you love someone even when you don't agree with them or fully understand them you still honor their wishes. Buntaro didn't try to fight his dad when his dad said he was gonna commit sepuku, he didn't even beg him to not do it rather he asked to join him, why? Coz his love for his dad merits his honoring his wishes; so why is his selfishness seen as love when it comes to Mariko? My question at this point is that when he denied her that solace and protest of injustice what was it he thought she merited? Isn't it kinda arrogant in that case to think she would "grow" to realize he saved her and be thankful as if she was initially wrong and muddled when she chose to go by way of seppuku? I don't know in a weirdly unrelated example its like parents who force their kids to do like medicine or engineering and these kids honour their parents and do this thing they hate and graduate and put the certificates up and never take up that career again, like if only you listened to what your very much a full human kid was saying...

Lurkingposter
>>134950340

Read the subtext, it's clear that he was into her but she never liked him. So he initially treated her well but slowly got more bitter as she treated him with ice and asked to die every year. He doesn't want to divorce her because she will kill herself. That doesn't excuse how he was treated her but it's clear there is more going on here.

R.W.U.A

Lol at hard work

Biggie cheese

Once you guys get a free schedule slot you should watch fallout it’s gas🔥🔥

Lurkingposter

I can't believe ya'll thought Toranaga gave up. The brothel mistress knew he was making a play. His best friend knew it was play. As soon as he started coughing, I knew it was part of his ruse.

Ren

Its on the schedule buddy

John Smith

Buntaro and the No Good, Very Bad, Terrible Day. Yeah he a piece of shit but I doubt he had any opportunity to be better. A samurai as strong as Buntaro would always be in the thick of fighting, which means a shitton of PTSD. Then he comes back to a wife who never wanted to be with him in the first place and insists on dying every year. Then some foreigner picks up his wife and reaches his same social rank like it's nothing. If I were Buntaro I'd have ended it all years ago.

ProKnockz

The dedication is crazy

Lucius Reinhard

I think they were too caught up in their service and obligations to their various lords to worry too much about any personal matters (as seen when Toranaga handwaves the Uejirou incident as childish/a waste of time), plus Mariko might have just been feigning satisfaction and contentment for years and Buntaro took that at face value without actually making sure she was happy (that eightfold fence she mentioned)

Dabossman702

Lupa sitting like a kid who just got yelled at with his arms crossed during the seppuku has me in tears 💀💀💀

InfamousD

i thought he said no to that lady plans to build a red light district

Ethan Eggeman

Letting your best friend kill himself just to trick your enemies into thinking you're surrendering. Toranaga is COLD

PandaLeHey

Gave them property in his will ep 7. Best way to keep the church from setting up in his capitol.

Polygon

Buntaro's actor, Shinnosuke Abe needs WAAYYYYY more credit. His acting is so subtle but it HITS. It’s all in his eyes, the way he controls the muscles in his face to depict EVERYTHING Buntaro is feeling. He really makes Buntaro feel like a real guy, flaws and everything. From the softness when he tries to please Mariko during the tea ceremony, to the pleading "Father, please" when he seconds Hiromatsu. So good. Also, imagine getting absolutely roasted alive by your wife and then having to chop off your dad's head in what must be the span of a few days. Jesus, Buntaro needs a breather.

Anas Ghadfi

I think Sheera confused about who Dayoin is. Not anybody's mom. She's the first wife of the taiko and caretaker of Ochiba's son. I swear she just be talking for no reason sometimes good god 49:30 made no sense

em

equally as hard is gutting yourself bc you realize your best friend is cooking so you gotta let them cook

Sylisen E.

Roshi said that they'll have to clear an entire day of shows to watch it, so they are figuring it out ;)

kingBD

Me for most the episode: Toranaga not gonna surrender! Me when Hiromatsu does Seppuku: oh shit guess he is surrendering smh Like 5mins later: Damn nigga really playing Go not checkers

Mr. Every

Cowboy Bebop movie?

em

the softness is what got me, the fact that he performed a perfect tea ceremony for her (which takes years to learn and refine). you have this petty, violent brute that transforms into this gentle person that can act with grace and care in this one scene, and you realize, damn... he wasn't supposed to be the way he is.

Paul Reyes

Lol damn, why’s everyone been on Sheera’s head these past couple days?

PetersThimble

Old girl told her she’s been aligning herself with the wrong person and on her deathbed that Ishido “comes from nothing and is nothing” and she still went and submitted herself to him 🤦🏾‍♀️

em

yeah, bro was never sick. just yesterday he couldnt even walk on his own, HELL he couldnt even SIT UP on his own, he had that shoulder rest thing, now he's powerwalking out of his bedroom, visiting his son in FULL GEAR

Hey Hey Me

I think Mariko gave Yabushige orders to prepare an attack on Osaka. I mean, he has his own army, cannons, Blackthorn, and already he's sneaking out at night. It's the perfect surprise attack.

Adrian Locke

Toranaga be plotting like he playing Helldivers

Brennan Ireton

The acting in this episode is top notch. The facial expressions between Hiromatsu and Toranaga show so much. You can see the moment where Hiromatsu realizes that Toranaga truly is faking it, and also realizes that he must commit Seppuku to sell the lie. When he says that Toranaga does believe in pointless death, he's calling back to their conversation about Fuji's husband, who gave his life and his son's life in order to placate Ishido and buy time for Toranaga.

Lurkingposter

It's clear she's the one in charge in that relationship.

Gilthwixt

It amazes me that Toranaga continues to turn L's into W's and his enemy's W's into L's - Dead Gardner? "Dead Spy". Dead son? Bought time. Dead best friend? Use his death to control everyone else. Gave the Catholics a church? It's in the red light district 💀. There's just so many layers to this. Even the way Ochiba got pushed towards Ishido, because they surely had news that Hiromatsu offed himself and Toranaga was on the way to surrender - *that* sounds like Toranaga figuring he can take two enemies out at the same time. Never played Shogi but I did play a bit of Go, and watching this show makes me want to pick it up again, because I think there's a lot of good parallels to Go and the way Toranaga rolls. One is that good players frequently make sacrifice plays to set up massive turnarounds - make your enemy fight for pointless victories, then take the whole board from under their nose. The other is that moving first generally has better odds of winning and has a point handicap associated with it - so the fact that Toranaga *has never lost despite never moving first* is symbolic of his playstyle and a testament to how good he is.

Adrian Locke

Also I’m just noticing that the actor for Blackthorne is the sniper guy from Peaky Blinders that gets killed in Season 5

faded

Toranaga needs some Lean for his cough

Chris De Kuristof

buntaro really killed his his dad, got cursed to live and his wife left him and bout to get clapped by ahjin again

Nate

John Cedar
>>134974910

I mean, it's about as certain as saying that Yabushige has been torturing and executing people for years. You can just tell that shit isn't new. What really confirmed it was how Mariko stood there and didn't move when her husband drunkenly fired an arrow right next to her face. That is the action of someone who knows what kind of punishment comes if they are defiant. Also, her and their son go silent whenever he enters a room, all laughter and joy leaves them. Also a sign they are reguarly beaten, as they cower and try not to anger him in any small way, all the time. Even with other dominant male heads of house in this show, you don't see their families constantly recoiling from them like Mariko and her son do from Buntaro.

MonarchXIII

Guy's a piece of shit but man I'm still rooting for him lmao

Nate

Sometimes ya gotta stop trying to predict what's gonna happen. And actually focus on what's happening in the now

Nate

Yeah and when the only thing he has, his fighting skill, was questioned he silenced the ahjin pretty good

Nate

John Cedar
>>134974910

We've seen other family dynamics yeah, there are plenty, in flashbacks and the present. Obviously other dudes acted like that, beating your wife and kids was extremely common back then, they were literally the man's property to do with as he pleases. Also, in real life, if you see or notice someone being physically abused, it's almost always not the first time, even if it's the first time you've noticed it. We don't need a montage of Buntaro beating on her throughout the years to know what's up. You can sympathize with Buntaro while also admitting he has done monstrous things and does not deserve his wife's affection, no matter how sad he is. It's ultra clear to me that he is a habitual abuser, from the subtext. If you disagree, that's fine, but I doubt you could convince me.

Yusuf

Can you please elaborate on your comparison to Helldivers? I am intrigued.

Adrian Locke

He throwing bodies at problems right now like these niggas can respawn 😭😭😭

A.

Did you forget that he beats her later that night?

Gwyn

Day 17 of my counter campaign for either Fargo or the expanse.

Dirty_Oldman

Mariko never wanted to marry Buntaro. She pretty much called him a worthless bum but did it out of respect for her father. When her father died she was done with it and wanted out. Buntaro loved her and wouldn’t let her die. It’s just sad because you can’t make someone love you. Which is the root of their marriage issues. Some many people trying to add extra shit that doesn’t exist. Everything is right there in the show.

Dirty_Oldman

His point was just because it happened once, doesn’t mean it’s a happened before. Doesn’t make it right, but doesn’t mean you can just assume things. There has to be facts to prove it.

Jordan

I think the key phrase that made me think it was all a play was hiromatsu telling buntaro “don’t give up on our lord when it APPEARS he’s given up on himself” I think was a slick line to say it may look like he’s given up on himself, but have faith that he hasn’t and stand by him. It could be taken multiple ways, but I took it as hiromatsu saying “there’s a plan in place, trust that I’m dying to ensure it comes to fruition, and I’m not actually going to die in vain”

Jordan

“He wasn’t supposed to be the way he is” goddamn that’s gotta be the deepest shit I’ve heard in a minute lmao

A.

"Yeah but we didn't see it once?"

A.

And about other husband/wife interactions, we see Toranaga with his wife and (adult) son, Fuji with her husband, Mariko and Ochiba with their fathers as children. Buntaro is the only one who elicits fear from his child, even though we know Ochiba's dad was evil/ruthless to others. Ochiba also seems to hate her "husband" the former Taiko, but all the other husband/wife relationships are more respectful, even when Fuji's husband gets her baby killed and refuses to let her die.

minami
>>134969094

Half of that moment you referred to didn't exist at all, because Hiromatsu knew his intentions the entire time. The look you are referring to is the look of him realizing he now has to die to keep up the ploy because of the outburst of the other generals to keep it together.

minami

What Hiromatsu did was actually kind of cruel in a poetic sense of essentially locking Toranaga into watching his old friend kill himself for the plan to be able to work while he could do nothing about it. Obviously he deemed it necessary, and it probably was, but i highly doubt toranaga specifically orchestrated that moment and it wouldn't have made any sense for him to tell anyone what his plan was. That was all Hiro trusting what he knows about toranaga, and banking on that

A. P.

Toranaga has turned my ankles into overcooked maruchan ramen noodles bro. This man is definitely a gemini lol RIP Yabushige, that shit was gut wrenching no pun intended

Jaelyn Mcgee

They get the accent and the inflection perfectly too, it's so great

Deonte Hall

i want them to react to mr. robot as well

Jose Nunez

Torunaga didn’t planned to kill Hiromatsu, he has never treated his close people as disposable. Torunaga needs to trick everyone into believing he’s weak and defeated, and Hiromatsu realized this after he offered to commit seppuku and questioned whether his lord believes in “pointless death” Torunaga couldn’t stop him without taking away the facade from his generals, and Hiromatsu committed seppuku so he doesn’t screw Torunaga over since then they all will be dead anyways. The tragic part is Hiromatsu realized what was going on too late which is why he told his son to believe in their lord, and apologized before killing himself, so that the situation can be believable and his lords plan can continue.

Lurkingposter

I knew it was a play as soon from the beginning. It's basic tactics, if you are weak, look strong. If you are strong, look weak.

Offw0rlder

Serving Toranaga's gotta lowkey suck so bad. On the surface he's good to his retainers, but when he's on bs timing they gotta go along with it and trust him. And he don't tell nobody shit!! After the price that was just paid, this current plot better be worth it I feel bad for Blackthorne, who's just at the mercy & whims of these power-hungry deathmongers who literally don't give af about him unless it serves their purposes. And when he questions like wtf, he gets attitude. Lmao F where ya came from & your culture you a Nippon G now. Senseless death? You mean duty bro! duty and honor! Big T-Naga played with his emotions over that ship. Lotta folks in this show I'd wanna punch, but I'd have to swing on Big Naga at least once if it wouldn't get me killed. I save your life more times than you saved mine, literally pulled your ass out of what would've been your grave. And right after you told me to F off too.

Offw0rlder

I hear you, and you're right. I'm highly impressed with his foresight and adaptability. That being said, I'm so mad at Big Naga right now T-T

Offw0rlder

You're smoking something I need to get my hands on, if you're trying to make a case for Buntaro not being an abuser. All the evidence is there, if you can't see it you're just not looking for it honestly. Especially if you can't pick up on their fear of him. He literally beat her in an episode, in John's house. Being a salty violent bitch isn't gonna make her love him, she was forced into the marriage. I could care less that she had sex with John, it's the only thing of her own free will she's done this whole season.

5Myllyon

Ily Lupa no diddy

5Myllyon

Y’all always drippy with the Tees y’all needa get a temu code or some shit for the free advertising you give

Fuji

the amount of faith you have to have in your plan to let your best friend die like that is crazy i wanna say fuck toranaga but i just cant. not yet at least.

Grelk
>>134950340

you're right, he should've kept on beating her, one note characters are the only ones i can stand

Tre

He beat him out of frustration, he been tryna get back to his crew for so long and begging for it but toranaga was bein a bitch he own crew mate questioned his loyalty without knowing what john had to deal with

Tre

Toranaga playing the lomg game in the grimiest way possible keeping everyone in the dark not letting nobody know his next move except seemingly mariko

Nah I’d win

I believe you guys didn’t realize that the old lady dying was not only the one telling Ochiba to partner up with Toranaga but also the wife of the Taiko that died. She was shown in the flashback drugging Ochiba so her husband the Taiko could rape her to get a male heir.

Nah I’d win

Because she be yapping too much and convincing herself of things that never happened. It’s annoying that she’s always trying to have a theory or be right about something

Tha Hoeless one

Bro if you make me behead my dad for a plan and it doesn't work. It is smoke forever nigga.

Calem

She wasn't raped. It was her choice to become the heir's mother. Why would you be grateful to a woman complicent in your rape?

Nah I’d win

My bad I thought the medicine that was ground up was some kind of drug

Jun Zheng

This episode should've been called Buntaro taking Ls

Bobby Robinson

Bro this some fucked up shit I’m not letting my homie die for a plan

MochanAmazing

I still can't understand why Hiromatsu needed to die.

Itanna

Na you’re kind of right but I think she gave her the drug so that she wouldn’t have to think about the situation

John Cedar
>>135066126

News of Toranaga's most trusted friend and ally committing seppuku will be the ultimate proof to Ishido and the council that Toranaga is indeed surrendering, and their guard will be down. Everyone still suspected Toranaga to be planning something, both his enemies and allies, but if even a large portion of his own council doubts him, and his closest friend commits seppuku, then Yabushige and John's attack will be much less anticipated. There are certainly other layers to Toranaga's plan as well that we don't know yet.

McKee Drain

GIVE ME MY TEARS BACK 🥲

David King

how do i join this campaign?

Mack

Toranaga was definitely not sick. It was all a mirage, to make it look like he was weak, near the end and had given up. He wants that message to be sent out to Osaka, so that Ishido and them wont be prepared for his attack when it comes. Hiromatsu essentially showed ultimate loyalty by sacrificing himself for a greater cause. They knew that the message must be sent out to Osaka that he is for sure giving up if his top lieutenant committed Seppuku in protest. Hiromatsu in the homeboy hall of fame. Spectacular episode

Mack

😭😭😭😭😭

Dyastro123

They passed me off too

Dyastro123

Lot's of people here don't get any bitches it seems like.

Fini Reus

I mean I'm ngl Caleb she literally had no choice, it was produce an heir or presumably die. I'd classify that as a complex rape of sorts.

TheDroppedFry
>>134950340

When you literally cannot understand the complexity of humans and why they can do terrible and amazing things in the same breath. You write like this. It's not excuses for his actions, it's asking you to take off your horse blinders and look at a character with more depth than "wife beater".

Anthony Stark

That’s crazy, Toranaga became physically ill because he found out his son went out like a clown. RIP though

BigAL96_

When Roshi is crying you know it's bad...

Joydan Bri’an

they had me in the first half but that don’t mean i’m not pissed. writing and acting is phenomenal. wish more people would check it out cause it deserves all the praise

Shaquille_Oatmeal

That staredown scene was amazing. What great actors! Sad to see ojiisan Hiromatsu go like this. Just tragic characters all over. And i feel bad for Blackthorne cause he is stuck in the middle of all this insanity. He came here playing Solitaire while they were doing 8D shogi. It's crazy.

Maleny

That new church's confessional booth gonna have a four hour Disneyland queue, lmao.

Jamaal Ellison

Man when Mariko said that shit to Buntaro @29:17 I swore up and down to myself this nigga's about to crash out.

Arsean Wilbon

lmao Sheera trying to make that comeback at the end after her ankles got broke through that whole seppuku scene.

Thurman

Join my Black Sails campaign. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

Kay

I pledge myself to the campaign for Mr. Robot reaction. It's a roller coaster of a story.

Kay

Real talk, I felt horrible for Buntaro. His wife solidified that she despises him, his dad committed seppuku for seemingly NOTHING, and he had to decapitate his pops. He was always committed to duty, and even he wants to give up. Imagine life going so horribly you ache for the peace of death, but duty and your father's last command binds you to life. Tragic.

The Dude

God damn Lupa’s hair looks time consuming af

dani lizano

True but he still was a piece of shit of a husband

SavageDiplomat

There is a lot of cause and effect involved. His wife made it clear that she didnt want to be with him from the beginning with her icy behavior which in turn caused him to be resentful. His resentment led to a toxic relationship. He should have just divorced her but he was in love with her. I would say that his behavior towards her isnt acceptable but i understand it. Literally this entire relationship is based on negative emotions from both sides. It could never work.

L Jeans

This exactly, he was paid in kind for his actions against his wife. All things in life are connected.

Squaler
>>135667240

Sure he was but Mariko literally hated him and was on a permanent suicide campaign. Imagine your wife asking you every day for suicide. That’s torture.

HIM

Damn... left my boy with nothing but ice in his Tea... I started to believe Mariko really was the one who held the initial resentment, and she pushed our Boy to being the POS husband we've seen to this point... Thanks reddit for this comment, as I couldn't explain it better myself: (On whether or not Buntaro actually loved Mariko or not) He loves her and wants her to love him back, but she won't because he hates him for not giving her honor of dying with her family. Every year she asked her husband permission to kill herself, but he refuses, because he wants to keep her alive as his wife. But she can't love someone who won't let her fulfill her duty, so she'll never love him back. He gets angry at her "insubordination" and abuses her, but he doesn't want her to die either. It's a pure love/hate relationship and not as clear-cut as it appears to be on the surface. It's worth to note that at the time, women called their husband "go-shujin-sama", or Master/Owner. Wife is expected to obey the husband 100%, more like a glorified maid. Mariko refused to offer her husband love and affection as a form of protest, and he absolutely hated her for that, but he can't let her die either when he could easily have done so and get another wife.

AkhiTarzan

predator ahh haircut

rayman
>>136506400

ya every single character in this show is grey, no one is totally black or white

rayman

and then the fact that this dirty man from another land comes in and Buntaro can tell they have a forbidden connection when he only wanted that connection with Mariko and never will. His character really is tragic and is what caused him to become such an asshole.

Renard Jefferson
>>134950340

It's not rlly that complex. Buntaro does what he wants whenever he wants. When he realizes that he's gonna die, he wants to treat his wife a little better because he wants to die with her. When his life isn't on the line, he doesn't give a fuck what happens to her because he has forbidden her to die and it's not like she can leave him. The sho is subtly beating him over the head with his previous actions tho so it seems like he'll be at least a little redeemable later on.

Leo

Bro Salamon really said nah😭 he was not with it at all he got one taste of the Japanese honeypot and he ain't looking back also I believe what he said to John was valid John might wanna be Gol D. Roger but that doesn't mean I want to. Buntaro situation had me feeling a little bad for him but ultimately he did it to himself I know he loves lady Mariko but his love turned to resentment and abuse for it not being reciprocated he should've either went with her wishes or kill em with kindness route eventually she might've folded and cared for him some. I believe Toranaga made a mistake in letting his right hand man do that while it may have furthered his plans and convinced Osaka and Ishido he lost one Hella of an retainer I'd rather have skilled people next to me over losing them to deception. I also believe sheera thought that was lady ochiba's mother but it wasn't it was the former emperor's wife who couldn't bear children so she did that f'd up stuff to her that's why she said our son . I think lady Ochiba still hated her deep down that's probably why she ignored her advice and went to Ishido to spite her and to bring down Toranaga of course. No words for the sepukku scene my reaction was the same as the trio.

JotaroDrake

Nigga dating a whore but mad she a whore. I have no sympathy for this nigga at all

chao_2x (ABZ💙)

super late but The show doesn't go into detail to explain this but it's to buy time for him and sort've "excuse" his slow progress to Osaka. Mariko's mission itself is time sensitive because she has to either die or get out before Toranaga arrives where he'd be forced to commit seppuku at the order of the council. More time is passing than is obvious because of the pace the show is proceeding at. If Toranaga is just out in the field dicking around and taking his time for no reason then they'd just label him openly rebellious and crush him before he ever even arrives at Osaka. By Hiromatsu dying now he's just a weary loser trudging to his end. The perception of his situation is everything, not just to the people we see in the show but how the other regional warlords and realm as a whole view what is going on.

chao_2x (ABZ💙)

they all hoes buddy 💀 ain’t no girl was free back then they all got ran thru 😂 unless u got them when they was underage