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Pluribus Ep 8 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-12-22 15:59:11
Imported:
2025-12
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Ernie

Waiting for the comments clapping themselves 😏

Jamaal Ellison

Requesting For All Mankind on Apple TV. In an alternate timeline in 1969, Soviet cosmonaut Alexei Leonov becomes the first human to land on the Moon. This outcome devastates morale at NASA but also catalyzes a U.S. effort to catch up. With the Soviet Union emphasizing equality by including a woman in subsequent landings, the United States is forced to match pace, equally training women and ethnic minorities (who historically were largely excluded from the initial decades of U.S. space exploration). Pushed by higher competition, the Soviet and other blocs favor more competent leaders, modernizing earlier and on more rational ground. With sustained investments in technology, a broad, sustained, and global technological race takes place, with a wide range of dramatic civilian effects, such as early civil rights, electric vehicles, civilian fusion power, controlled CO2 production, and no climate crisis. Each subsequent season takes place about a decade later, with season two taking place in the 1980s, season three taking place in the 1990s, and season four taking place in the 2000s. Ronald D. Moore explained how historical reality had been different from the series: "Sergei Korolev was the father of the Soviet space program; in our reality, he died during an operation in Moscow (in 1966) ... And after that point, their Moon program really never pulled together.... Our point of divergence was that Korolev lives, ... and he made their Moon landing happen."

jaahman

Very great episode. By far my favorite as of now with episode 7 behind it. Sad that we have one episode left.

KittensandMotorcycles

I see why Carol folded, Zosia is just too charming even though I KNOW she is being manipulative 😹

Kami

Obviously not unfortunately lol

Brax

Thank you for blessing me at work on this fine Monday morning!😂

Jamaal Ellison

"No um because see Diabaté was forcing them to." And "she came on to Carol, Zosia wanted to do that so um." 🤷

Driizzy

Yall already know the same energy isn't about to be kept so idk why yall are even expecting it😂😂 I seen this shit coming because I'm not dumb and this is why I love vince. Ppl just wanna be politically correct so the internet can tell them they are a good person as they proceed to go objective women all day in their room and beat the fuck outta their dick💀 I am being generous when I say this but a good 90% of men would do the same as buddy in this show. I can say this because I just like to be honest and transparent. Put a nigga in a world where a verison of rihanna wanna suck the skin off their penis and they are OVERLY GOING💀 Of course men aren't the only ones moving like this, we are just the first because we have this thing between our legs. When Carol started saying how hot shorty is a couple episodes ago I knew it was coming because I'm not dumb, I just wanted to see if NIGGAS WAS GOING TO KEEP THE SAME ENERGY. And it clearly wasn't a one time thing, it seems like Carol has been eating her coochie for weeks. There is no excuses you can make for her, especially when your argument is these ppl have no individuality nor free will to give consent. So lets see if the same energy is going to be kept or if niggas are scared of backlash from the online mob from THAT community 😂 Update I'm already seeing the goalpost being moved for Carol bro I LOVE THIS SHIT💀

Lamaree Jackson

Okay where all the Carol defenders at, I just wanna talk 😂😂😂😂

LaTesha

They should have played speed with the cards lol

Jamaal Ellison

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 People seek out human connection that's why Social media isn't going anywhere.

Jamaal Ellison

🤯💀 those comments aged like a poor white woman.

Gorrr

Yah misses it Roshi that train is carrying HDP lmao

Anon7524

I can't believe Vince actually said "It's Pluribin' Time" with no shame. Not on my 2025 bingo card😂

Ron H

Vince's actual point is that it isn't black and white - there's a world of nuance between Manousos' refusal to engage at all no matter the cost and Mr. Diabate's completely hedonistic, pleasure-seeking character. Carol is somewhere in the middle, where most people would reside - she hates what this has done to the planet, to her relationships, to individuality, and yet she is so alone and borderline suicidal that any physical human interaction will suffice, even if it's from the thing she hates. It's less hypocritical and more human nature.

Trey Milliner-Williams

theres always a small minority of weirdos in the comments. mf really typed a whole paragraph to explain why he thinks hes justified in being a creep. then tried to project his desires onto others. crazy work

Jamaal Ellison

That's the more mature way of putting it, but that point was made several episodes ago, and people got called out for being weirdos. You can hate Diabaté and call him whatever variation of a weird thing you need to, but I think he and Manousos are the two most realistic representations of how a human put in a situation would react. I think Carol is the fantastical, fictional version.

Jamaal Ellison

I think he's just being honest. 🤷

Seraphina

SHEERA WITH THE “so when we start scissoring…” IS FRYING ME YO I DIDNT EXPECT THAT💀💀

Trey Milliner-Williams

i think people who lack morality and if given the opportunity would enact atrocities on others often times try to project that as something most people would do, to feel better about being monsters themselves.

Batison

Sheera you crack me tf up 😭

Seraphina

Yuribus 🔛🔝

Jamaal Ellison

However, what are the implications in a society devoid of conventional social structures? Theft is considered morally reprehensible if one is apprehended and incarcerated. In Hiveworld, individuals frequently engage in theft—ranging from sustenance to vehicles, residences, and even aircraft. Such actions hold no significance for them; their necessity supersedes all else. What motivated Carol's actions?

Melon Lord

you're the kind of person that hates when men get generalized, but then you'll say dumb shit like "90% of men would do the same" ergo, are fucking freaks

baja

Same energy for what bro? I dont get your rant

baja

Slow burner

Jamaal Ellison

If you're talking about me, and I'm not sure if you are, I don't mean men. I'm talking about people of all different shapes and sizes. I always say people are always seeking human interaction. I never said men. If you're talking about me, and if you're not, then my bad.

Trey Milliner-Williams

because Carol is not a Morally sound character herself. Carol from the beginning was shown as egotistical, hard to please, and easily angered. At no point did the show try to paint her as a great person. in fact episode 1 and the flashbacks do the opposite.

Carlos

The Pluribussy was too much to resist.

Driizzy

Exactly, the replies already mad😂😂

Driizzy

Yes I am extremely honest, because there isn't good conversation without it. They're already moving the goalpost for carol

JoZé

Like i said i feel like everyone was a bit harsh on Mr Diabate, If yall recall back at the meeting of the english speakers he didn’t have any family/friends or anything of that sort as well as Carol. we know now(as it is inferred and referenced ) that Carols family wasn’t very accepting of her so she had to find her chosen family which was Helen. We don’t know why Diabate is alone but they’ve said that he is Mauritanian and his first name is a Women’s so it’s also inferred (hopefully soon, will be expanded on a bit) that’s he’s had a very harsh and lonely life. I promise you take ANY MAN (99.9% of men) from a situation like that and say you can have whatever you want, they’ll be living exactly like, maybe even worse, than bro

Xylo

I don’t think this show is meant to dig your feet in the sand on one side or the other on things. Carol is human so it makes sense she’d develop conflicting feelings between wanting to save the world, but also genuinely liking things about the hive. Circumstances are extreme so I feel it wouldn’t be just super easy to always see the hive as “bad” that’s why I think the “They Eat People” message was more of a reminder to herself as she felt herself slowly developing feelings. Could be wrong but I see it different that Carol’s pushes of individuality could actually affect Zosia and that they could both be affecting each other in a way. Zosia doing actions without being asked like kissing or speaking in depth on an individual memory leaves room for a natural independence forming from the hive. It could be as simple as just manipulation tactics but I feel it could be a little more complex than that

Jamaal Ellison

Yeah, she's a stubborn miserable person with a drinking problem. But what makes what she's doing with Zosia okay but not Diabaté? That's what I'm asking assuming Carol and Zosia will get more intimate with one another.

Driizzy

Nope, because I know the world works of generalization and I'm not delusional. Most men are dogs, society and religion just keeps us tamed. Most men do think with their dicks, but most can't get no hoes. Most ppl will say they will never spend 5000 dollars on a coat if they were a billionaire, because they know they will never be one.

Ernie

You see, we live in a society and...

Trey Milliner-Williams

see there goes that projecting thing again. I never said no one ever said the comments never said it was ok. You two came in here half cocked acting like you got one up on everyone. In which you are ignoring two key things. 1. CAROL is the one being manipulated. this isnt even close to the same scenario. and 2. NO ONE SAID IT WAS OK TO BEGIN WITH

Trey Milliner-Williams

there goes that projection again. "I a man would do this therefore all men would do the same" nah be a weirdo by yourself that is not the rest of us. also saying your morality is purely guided by society and religion is a huge self report lol. good luck in life hopefully you are able to control yourself to the end

Trey Milliner-Williams

the hive mind being able to utilize manipulation instead of straight forcing someone is crazy

Patsakorn Pariyapranee

Just let this Jamaal guy gets one, probably been waiting for a “W” since 3 Ls on the comments in the first 3 eps. This guy doesn’t reply to sound arguments anyway.

GrandNubian

Love how they make excuses for Carol bonding with Zosia but condemn all of the other individuals (including those with living relatives) for living in peace with the Others

Anon7524

A summation of this would be "Life, all life, is complicated". Everything that lives and exists is multifaceted, and is not as simple as seen on the surface. There is always a true purpose to the supposed madness we may find repulsive now🤷‍♂️

Jamaal Ellison

I called way back then so I'm savoring it Now this and my Penguin wants to fuck his mom comment that got shit on then confirmed in the finale. I take the "W's" when I can get em. Now sir If you'll have to excuse me, I have to find a sunset to walk off into.

Leopold

I have no real dog in the race, but don't you think the other survivors are also being manipulated by the hive mind. I don't see how Carol is the only one being manipulated.

Ayanda Mpofu

Still glad Carol was locked in for the first half of the ep. She acquired some pretty useful information.

Ernie

It's fitting that vince took a man and placed him in this "playboy/entitled" situation and people found him weirdl and then placed Carol a main character into a more forgiving and "understanding" situation and people fell for Carols instantly because she was a main character instead of actually thinking unbiased and wonder if it's okey. Vince did the same with Jessie and Walt. People really need to stop having bias opinion just because u follow a character, and start having questions about why character do certain things. I'm convinced vince could have written a main character who rapes someone and people would still find excuses.

YaBoyRoshi

Weird I actually didnt move any goalpost. I said I am NOT with it and acknowledged that this is a reverse situation where the Hive is manipulating Carol. While I can acknowledge Carols moment of weakness and she should have said no, there is actually a difference between Mr Dibiate fucking everyone after 24hours and Carol connecting with one hive member after 60days. Again, I AM NOT with it at all, shout out to Manousos!

Kami

God i cant believe carol would do that? She's a disgusting rapist and anyone who thinks different is a bad person. They are a hive mind and have no agency and cant say no to her and she's taking advantage of them! She's sleeping with every kid on the planet! Blah blah blah 🤣 people were real live calling you vile shit if you had any grace for the french guy.

Driizzy

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I VisiBomb I

I don't know about that... if the only way id have somewhat human physical connection is by "interacting" with every person in the world at once, like actually every huuman alive regardless of sex gender or age, I feel like either killing myself before it gets to that point might have been the way to go.

Kami

Amen, stand on business if you feel that way lmao I wouldn't do it either but im not gonna blame them either 🤷

Frederick

I’m just here for the comments because what the hell?

Jamaal Ellison

I couldn't wait and they did not disappoint. 😂

Esteban

No bro it’s not fine by his own, just saying 😂

Frederick

Like I understand that Carol and Mr. Diabaté situations are completely different but they still end up at the same finish line. Carol could’ve easily said no.

MrGuy3000

Yo these comments crazy 😂

ToastPlusThree

The one genuine thing about the hive that I think is shown here. They have nothing new to read. They know EVERYTHING. Yet here’s Carol - someone who’s able to give them something new. A new book to read. Carol is the one person here that’s actually able to give a being who knows everything - something they don’t know. In that sense, I think the hive was genuinely excited about wycaro

Mohd

so we gonna treat carol the same way we treated that loser right?..right????

Jay Craig

I'm mad the season ends this week, feels like they're finishing it right when they finally set up the conflict between Carol and Manousos (since he obviously isn't going to fuck with the way Carol has started vibing with the hive)

Whoc THE MAN

People in the comments mad as hell 😂

JavonR92

I actually think Manousos and Carol will eventually be at odds. Carol definitely still wants to save the world, but she is now willing to somewhat accept the Hive, while also trying to learn them to save them. She has even started a “relationship” with one of them. We’ve seen Manousos is willing to do whatever it takes in order to restore the world to how it was, even get violent if necessary. Ultimately, I think Carol will begin to disagree with his methods and that will cause them to be at odds. What if he threatened Zosia for example? Idk, this series is so interesting and has so many possibilities!

Fuji

damn throughout the whole episode i was being sucked into feeling emotionally invested just to be reminded they are just a hive mind yeah i woulda been cooked lmao

JavonR92

Nope. He and Carol are totally different. As Roshi and them said, she is being manipulated and is emotionally weak. Her moment of weakness is understandable

Jamaal Ellison

Big facts, she's almost a completely different person from who she was when she first sent Manousos those tapes.

LMR

LOL so real i actually felt like i was carol

Isaac Cobbinah

Thank god roshi is consistent and not going with sheera's bs excuses

Isaac Cobbinah

lol stop with the bs, even roshi said carol is aware of the manipulation, and still decided to go through with it

Isaac Cobbinah

lol hypocrisy all around, they're willing to come up bs to understand the nuances that's going on in this episode but not with the french guy

Freeofgreed

Yup. Came to say the same thing lol.

Jamaal Ellison

If I asked for Kingdom Hearts, 4 how long would it take for them to complete creating the game? Everyone's shares a hive mind with alternating shifts so the body could rest. No one needs to get paid. There's no unions, I would be able to get it in less than a year, right?

Driizzy

Just peeped the end Discussion, roshi my dawg, we understand there is nuance, any nigga saying there isn't is just a dumb nigga. But the end result is still the same. A good comparison of this is a nigga who was flooding the streets with crack because he seen it as a quick come up vs a nigga who was doing it because he felt as he had no choice because he had to just jump in and go and screaming the CIA set him up and manipulated him (Which they factually did back in the day) The point is there is always a choice. Such as buddy who completely said fuck the hive mind and stood on business vs Carol who yall wanna make excuses for because she CHOSE to scissor and eat the coochie of a woman who cannot give consent. (Weeks passed so we know Carol was having some fun with this woman) Both niggas who was flooding his community with crack are still getting 60 years in prison, the manipulation excuse and "Nuance" isn't going to work. Carol could've said no and rejected her urges to fuck this woman who has no free will.

Driizzy

Just peeped the end Discussion, roshi my dawg, we understand there is nuance, any nigga saying there isn't is just a dumb nigga. But the end result is still the same. A good comparison of this is a nigga who was flooding the streets with crack because he seen it as a quick come up vs a nigga who was doing it because he felt as he had no choice because he had to just jump in and go and screaming the CIA set him up and manipulated him (Which they factually did back in the day) The point is there is always a choice. Such as buddy who completely said fuck the hive mind and stood on business vs Carol who yall wanna make excuses for because she CHOSE to scissor and eat the coochie of a woman who cannot give consent. (Weeks passed so we know Carol was having some fun with this woman) Both niggas who was flooding his community with crack are still getting 60 years in prison, the manipulation excuse and "Nuance" isn't going to work. Carol could've said no and rejected her urges to fuck this woman who has no free will.

Jamaal Ellison

Does the sexual body count matter anymore in this universe. 😂

JOJO

This hive is an absolutely ingenious way to takeover planets. Since the hive is programed to ensure the happiness of anyone immune to it , I imagine the aliens who created them are immune themselves. The Kepler 22B aliens essentially enslaved a whole planet who now "love" them and will do anything to spread this virus across space enslaving other civilizations...all this without leaving their home planet.

PetersThimble

Carol is a victim. She spent the last month being isolated by the hive and had no knowledge that Manousos was coming to her, so in her mind, she has literally no one. They literally sent a woman who looks just like her book character that has all her wife’s memories inside her. Carol calls it out: it’s manipulation. The hive knew Carol wouldn’t be able to resist the intimacy out of everything, however, what I’m interested in is when Manousos comes through bc Carol will have to confront that and lock in fr

Grelk

Glad roshi understands what the hive is doing, an unbelievable amount of people though zosia “broke” from hive from scissoring? What???

PyroPhoenix

I see it a bit differently. They may have tried manipulating her for a bit before but I truly don’t think they are doing that right now. I have a feeling that Carol is affecting Zosia which is slowly making her independent from the hive. Carol is also starting to care for the hive because they truly are in danger. The hive is unable to kill which includes picking an apple for themselves meaning that they will eventually die without a fight and it makes Carol mad that they are so easily willing to just go out like that. In the end doe idk 🤷‍♂️I dont see the hive as bad or evil. They weren’t asked to be there, humanity’s curiosity of what was in the sky gave birth to the virus that brought them to life. The original urge of any living creature is to live and to procreate, they just did what is natural to any of us.

CentipedeKid

Realistically he's doing exactly what Carol is doing with them he just doesn't care about fixing the problem because it looks unfixable. I'd be just like him. Having fun with it instead of going insane.

Xemnas27

Carol really was eating out the Pluribussy 😭😭

Oni Legend

Man what in the Infinite Tsukiyomi. This is one of the most emotionally ickiest episodes I’ve seen since the sex episode in Severance season 2 with Dylan and the wife and the Marks with Helly. Like theres so many layers to the dynamics by this point and I think all of yall brought up some really good points. Sheera is right in that the Hive has to feel some genuine interest in Carol because they’re interacting with a seperate individual organism and unlike the Others, Carol(and Manusos by extension) can’t be pleased by focusing on one core trait like love, familiarity, or lust with the Others. So its this thing where the Hive has to INTENTIONALLY go out of their way to learn and find out more abour Carol(which in the regular world would typically lead to attraction) Roshi and Sheera are also right in that everything the Hive does is clear manipulation. But its not an evil malicious puppet master manipulation. Its the manipulation you see with a lot of chronic severe people pleasers where its all about keeping someone away from a certain range of emotions to better serve their own self interest or concern. Except in this case that certain range of emotions is Carol’s slipping grasp of individuality and being lonely

MrOuijaII

This was for sure one of my favorite episodes, Roshi and Lupa hit it on the head tbh, the manipulation is so strong it worked on the audience. This whole episode was me having a huge smile on my face and being happy for Carol and then simultaneously remembering the Hive and going 'oh fuck' back and forth, both sides were equally cunning this episode. I strongly think Manousos is going to put a stop to the toxic yuri by either becoming an enemy either from rejecting her or disposing of Zosia, I don't see how he could work with Carol while she is technically fraternizing with the enemy. Even though I doubt it is going to happen, I hope that somehow Zosia breaks 'free' and can become a 'good' character, I like her and Carol's dynamic. Was it the hive shuffling through Zosia's memories like the gang suggested or did Carol treating Zosia as an individual and growing a connection break the hive armor if only for a quick second? Who knows but i'm excited to see where it goes. On the Diabate vs Carol thing, I just hope this kind of deads the moral grandstanding some people have attached to this show and causes them to think just a bit more, world is not black and white and there is nuance to everything. For the record, I do not agree with how Diabate is moving with his harem, but I like that that kind of morally grey character is included in this apocalyptic scenario.

Oni Legend

Now….the SEX….thats the ickiest part. Homeboy is 1000% weird for seeing a situation where people(women)’s individuality and consent or taken away/glossed over and just disregarding all prior wills so he can bust a nut 6x a day Carol is ALSO weird for going through with it because we all know that deep down she KNOWS its not okay because Zosia as a human being very likely had no idea who Carol was, probably would’ve had no attraction to Carol, and wouldn’t ever sleep with Carol as a result Like Roshi said tho, Carol’s case is only slightly different because her’s is more than just flat out lust and wish fulfillment, its the result of being virtually alone for a month straight and having a lot of pent up vulnerability from the whole situation so when she falls for it, its a severe moment of weakness. Still weird…..just more of a last resort thing Now the Hive is the interesting part. I agree that its manipulation thing at its core, playing to Carol’s desires(which is why they used Zosia in the first place) to placate her BUT i can also see that going back to what Sheera said, the Hive now have a genuine interest in Carol and in trying to get closer and know her deeper, they’ve chosen to forge that bond in a really weird fucked up way through physical intimacy

Oni Legend

Yeah bro its weird cuz like what Carol said, she’s gotta fix it even it means losing them even though she likes them So it’s like this thing where if the Hive could exist seperate from humanity and taking bodies, Carol would be all for it

Jamaal Ellison

Also is Zosia pregnant? Maybe with Carol's eggs they wouldn't have brought that point up for no reason. I saw that as a theory and I wondered if it may be true looking, at Zosia's body.

MrGuy3000

I say it’s More so like selling crack to one nigga and that nigga was keeping you hostage in order to get crack but yes at the end of the day it is a choice

MrOuijaII

Interesting in the context of the show because its also an AR game of 'Which one of us would succumb to the Hive'. The short answer is, a lot of us are cooked, me included cause after this episode I for sure started referring to Zosia by name and not the HIVE that they still are.

MrGuy3000

A lot of people in these comments don’t get that crew are saying yes the end result is the same for carol and all the other un-plurbed but diabate and the others gave into that shit day one no problem. Carol was tryna fix shit and was iced out of human interaction for 40 days because of it. Than was given someone specifically to pacify and attract her. And she is still tryna save humanity unlike the others even like she says if she ends up alone again although she might need a wake up call from manny

Jamaal Ellison

Okay, I honestly can't remember, so could you answer this question for me? I'm not trying to do a gotcha. I'm just asking cause I can't remember. Did Diabaté force the Hivemind to do what they did with him, or did they strike up a bond with him off-screen the same way Carol seems to have with Zosia? A few episodes ago, when Carol went to Vegas, they all seemed really close with heaven. So that's why I asked, maybe they also have a bond, it's just a little different. Either way there's no individuality, because they're part of the Hivemind.

John Fleming

I’m just happy to see two middle aged lesbians thriving

YaBoyRoshi

Lol everyone wants to have a “gotcha” moment but they not listening to what was said

Jamaal Ellison

This was my personal favorite episode, topped only by the pilot. I feel like a lot of lingering questions got answered in this episode. Apparently, if you sleep with one of them, you weren't sleeping with your cousins or your aunt or your mom, but they will know about it. So it's still weird.

quashhh

Roshi this is the next best thing next to severance

Solemnity

These comments are wild lmao... I thought they were a little harsh on the other guy, but it's clear to anyone with reason that his and Carol's actions regarding sex with 'them' are VERY different.

Darrell Johnson

This is like AI. It can't create anything new, just churn through what was already available. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Dark Shogun

Roshi, I have to disagree about them not having original thoughts. If that were the case they wouldn't discover how to turn the individual people left into them. They wouldn't discover anything. The hive has the knowledge of everyone that has been and is currently connected to it. They also have the brain power and experience of everyone that is connected. When you say "they" do this to manipulate Carol, what do you mean? The way it sounds to me is that you're saying aliens are using the hive to manipulate Carol. The thing is the hive is just humans. It's like if I connected you, Lupa, and Sheera together. I'm not in that small hive, it's just you three. So yes there is manipulation going on but not from an outside force. I personally think the manipulation is for two reasons. 1. To make Carol feel better about them because before she was totally tense and freaking out. 2. To try to get her off the subject of "curing" them. I really don't know how Manusos is going to feel about Carol interacting with "them", even if it is just one of "them". Also she gets things from them and has no problem doing it, while he doesn't want ANYTHING from them.

ChickenDinners

but humanity is already saved. One of us. One of us. Join the Hive and you'll never be alone.

Jamaal Ellison

The assertion that Zosia's behavior differs when interacting with Carol is a sophisticated narrative device employed by Vince Gilligan to influence audience perception. Given the extensive portrayal of Zosia and Carol's interactions within the series, it becomes challenging to accurately assess the nuances of the Hivemind's conduct with other individuals, as their engagements are less frequently depicted. While other characters are briefly introduced, their appearances are often fleeting, making it difficult to establish a comprehensive baseline for comparison. Therefore, how can one definitively conclude that this particular dynamic deviates significantly from others?

I VisiBomb I

I would blame them 100% for being creepy as fuck. Imagine you walk down the street and a bunch of children tell you "hello! good morning" and you know they know how sleeping with you feels like. kinda messed up ngl, it would mess with my head so much that I'd rather off myself. Its like that trope in anime where the young girl is actually 1000 year old demon lord, like, sure that may be the case, but does the fact that their psyche is of an adult change the fact that its still a child body? and some anime fans would tell you that as long as the age is legal then it doesn't matter, but is it really true? idk...

Derpin

The diner scene felt like something from The Truman Show.

Moon Man

This whole hive mind phenomena and their instinct is honestly reminding me of Cordyceps (lAST oF US UniVERSe!?!), some foreign body detects(/collects inadvertently) the parasite, they are completely hijacked/possessed by this parasite and programmed with their goal of propagating the parasite further, although a little less 'kill to survive and grow' and more 'we just have to, because peace and love'. From what we know now it seems likely that the original transmission, containing the DNA sequence in episode one, could've been the end of a cycle of the series of events we are currently seeing in the show on a distant alien planet. If we were to compare it to the Cordyceps parasite cycle, the show would currently be in the 'climb to higher ground to spread the parasite' phase after what we learn the hive is building.

SakuraBlossom

It's not hypocrisy. French guy started raping dozens of women from day one. Carol is being systematically mind fucked right now. They're both wrong as fuck for ever sexually touching any of the Plurbs, but raping and exploiting hundreds of women as base wish fulfillment within the first week of getting the opportunity is obviously more worse than having sex with a single Plurb who has been steadily manipulating and making a concerted effort to seduce Carol for over a month.

Joni

i got a boner bro

Joni

SakuraBlossom

People saying Roshi and the group are hypocrites but they're not. French guy started raping dozens of women from day one. Carol is essentially under psychological warfare right now. Don't get me wrong, they're both wrong as fuck for ever sexually touching any of the Plurbs and Carol definitely knows better so she's completely out of order. HOWEVER, raping and exploiting hundreds of women as base wish fulfillment within the first week of getting the opportunity is obviously worse than having sex with a single Plurb who has been steadily manipulating and making a concerted effort to seduce Carol for over a month. Both horrific, one is worse especially if we're talking pure numbers of effected people.

Magnis

that’s the part people arent getting either like solitary confinement can fuck your shit all the way up and the hive absolutely knew that isolating carol would break her down enough for her to give in and increasingly rely on them. vince gilligan needs his coochie ate

Magnis

i’ve seen enough. give vince gillian three trillion dollars

YungZeus

I just know Paul Bremer was in the hivemind saying “ladies and gentlemen, we got her”.

ellie greory

How do we even know if Zosia was lesbian before the hive mind? She could've had a whole husband and kids back home for all we know. What if you had just had sxx with someone who don't even swing that way. You know the hive sent her here to manipulate you and you still sleep with her? Carol lost me this episode Ian gon lie I'm only rooting for Manousos atp I hope this is a manipulation tactic from Carol but I doubt it.

SakuraBlossom

What's changed? The plurbs still have no agency. Diabate is a rapist and now unfortunately so is Carol.

Tae

They only condemned the freak tho? The mom not wanting to let go of her son is understandable and as sheera said before “shes grieving”. So the only person they’re being hard on is the rapist…for good reason.

SakuraBlossom

What's worse, "standing on business" and forcing your will on 1,000 bodies incapable of consenting to you as soon as you get the chance v.s. accepting sex from 1 who pursued you after isolating you for a month? That's essentially why Roshi said that there's nuance. All of it is shitty, because the mentality of the 1 who pursued is still like sex trafficking but one is objectively worse than the other if we're talking just number of effected individuals.

Ernie

So one is rape and other is rape with extra steps?

SakuraBlossom

It's better to mass rape hundreds of innocent women's bodies rather than "be a hypocrite"? Wild. Y'all are who they make rape laws for.

Isaac Cobbinah

exactly, and my issue is that they're ready to have this deep dive to make excuses for carol but dont do the same for the french who might also be manipulated

SakuraBlossom

Both are rape. One doesn't include the rape and exploitation of HUNDREDS of innocent women's bodies.

Kami

I already said episode 2 I would have a bunch of fun do whatever I wanted for a while and end it probably. Theres no standard to be held to anymore society is gone. If they dont have a problem with it go for it I guess but im not doing that lol

Kami

Oh, I was never taking up for the french dude but allot of people are now suddenly ok with it cause carol is doing it 💀 not roshi and them but people in these very comments were calling people crazy names for their opinion on the french dude. I agree, she's a massive hypocrite but thats intentional 🤷

SakuraBlossom

Roshi, a lot of your followers are fucking terrifying.

SakuraBlossom

If the hive is so great, why does Diabate oppose joining it then?

lulama khoza

I wonder if they had caught that part where zosia says it's still her turn as opposed to their turn when her and carol were playing croquet, just a little thing that could possibly show her individuality coming through

MrOuijaII

Please learn to engage with conversations about fiction without attacking or making insinuations about people's real life character.

SakuraBlossom

I understand fiction is fictional, but the people commenting are very real people. All fiction is a thought experiment. If you're mentally putting yourself in the shoes of the characters and saying "yeah I'd just fuck all these women and idgaf about consent because no consequences" then that definitely speaks to your character. Die mad.

MrOuijaII

Your too susceptible to rage bait, but I think you may want to be outraged tbh. I don't agree with Diabate either but I can think of plenty of different reasons why someone like him may act like he is in a end of the world scenario and his potentially twisted view of 'consent' in this world with the hive. As a matter of fact, every excuse someone can make for Carol can also be applied to Diabate as well. That's kind of the cool thing about this shows apocalypse and its writing. Conversations about this show are too juicy to simplify things down to 'if you are not on this side you are a rapist psychopath'. Also, 'die mad' is wild, grow up dude lol

SakuraBlossom

"Living in peace" but they don't want to join them in the Hive LMAO the other individuals are the ones who are the true hypocrites.

Ernie

Sakura u not being honest, the extreme bias is troubling, u mention raping women from the diobate then u seddently switch to poor ole Carol being manipulated. This is coward take, just realise that diabate and Carol are bad and Vince is doing exactly what he intended. Stop having bias opinion, rape is rape. Period. Only person u can look up to and admire is Manousos.

Weyoun

I just find it interesting that they were even criticizing the Indian lady for choosing to live peacefully with her family but now all of a sudden the situation is "nuanced" and Carol is being taken advantage of 🤷‍♀️

SakuraBlossom

I'm not your "dude", first of all. Secondly, the same arguments about Carol can not be applied to Diabate considering he immediately decided to rape and pillage upon given the opportunity. No cajoling or manipulation necessary. And in any case, I've no issue "understanding" Diabate's motives (lustful mind with subzero care for consent). It's not the same as the commenters relating to him the strongest and saying they'd do the same if given the opportunity. People have the opinions they have because that's how they feel and what they want to do.

MrOuijaII

I think the Indian woman rubs people the wrong way because she is clearly delusional AND antagonistic to Carol on top of that. That's her kid, she is likely holding it together by a string because her child is the only anchor she has, also she did lose I think it was her father or grandfather during Carol's first outburst. Loneliness is a big theme and she clearly is fighting tooth and nail not to be so.

Jamaal Ellison

An argument could be made that that's also part of the manipulation. They could be trying not to upset carol with their preferred choice of pronouns.

SakuraBlossom

I'm being completely honest. One can be manipulated and still rape, Ernie. One can have dubious consent and still rape. One can be under psychological warfare and still do the clearly wrong thing and rape. How is my opinion biased when I literally just said that it's both rape and they're both wrong? The distinction I made is that HUNDREDS is a larger number than ONE obviously, so more people are harmed. What's not clicking for you?

Prune Chips

Carol has less responsibility than Diobate. They literally isolated her for over a month, then love bombed her and you guys are like "hmmm so its rape with extra steps???" The only rapist here in the Zosia - Carol situation is the hive. Diobate realized that they essentially can't say no him, and capitalized on it. Carol was purposely made vulnerable, which the hive capitalized on. They can't say no to Diobate or Carol, but they actually WANT to use sex to manipulate Carol. The real Zosia isn't getting a say, but the hive mind that engineered this entire is the one calling the shots. They're not submitting to Carol's desires (Like Diobate), they're preying on her loneliness. Loneliness they literally engineered.

andrew

Man, I was Wishing so hard for Carol, not to f*** her bro. But the moment of human weakness wins again.

Joni

Like roshi said, THEY approached Carol first and not the other way around. They r aware that Carol is feeling incredibly lonely cuz she wanted them to come back n they r taking advantage of her. And Carol who always found the french guy weird for fucking a hive mind has now done the same thing, but I think she will come back to her senses after meeting with Manuosos. She won't be lonely anymore after meeting someone like her.

Prune Chips

I agree 1000%. Although Carol was right to challenge Laxim about her child, she's speaking from the perspective of an outsider. We don't know what Laxim and Ravi's 1-1 interactions are like. From the beginning, Laxim insisted that she knows that Ravi is still himself. Hive members might display individuality when separated from the hive or reminded of their lives. In Ravi's case, he still lives in his house. While most hive members live in large auditoriums or gyms

Magnis

the hive setting up the damn FROM diner pissed me off

Ernie

I wonder what Zosia the actual person would feel if she became human again, would probably not think Carols "manipulation" of the hive as a viable excuse?

SakuraBlossom

I agree to an extent, but I believe that what Carol did was rape. You can have good intentions and still rape. You can be heavily manipulated and still rape. Her intent is obviously different that Diabate's and she has no intrinsic desire to stomp all over someone's consent, but they engineered the perfect scenario to break down her boundaries and morals until she became capable of it. Both her and the Hive have raped Zosia. And the Hive also raped Carol here too imo.

Ernie

I said it before, if we followed thenIndian women people would find her totally fair and not "bitchy" having lost family member and her clinging on to her son being delusional that her son is no longer her son, and then we have this Carol who ruins it. I wish we actually get a stand alone episode with her, actually showing her heartbreak and people eating their words up. It's sickening how people defend someone just because they follow/know more about them.

lulama khoza

That also makes sense which goes back to what some of the comments are saying about how we as an audience are also getting manipulated

YungZeus

Holy brain dead.

Jamaal Ellison

Okay, hold on. Carol wanted to be left alone so they gave her what she wanted. When she was starved enough for attention, she called them back and was more receptive to their advances because she'd already experienced the alternative of isolation and loneliness.

SakuraBlossom

You shouldn't talk about yourself like that.

Devaunta

They most definitely have original thoughts as they research stuff. If I were in the 12s position I’d probably except that this is just humanity now and accept them as legitimate people rather than seeing it as an active threat to be purged. I also theorize that being in a hive mind inherently makes you happy and most people would go back to it if it’s taken away from them. I understand how you can view having sex with them as rape but that depends on if u even believe these are legitimate beings and not some unnatural perversion, me personally if 8 billion people turned then they got the earth now I’m enjoying my 10 years. Gonna make whoever made the call to shutdown Anthem to rebuild that shit from SCRATCH.

Jamaal Ellison

They approached all of the uninfected. Carol was just one of the two last holdouts. The time-tested "she came on to me" excuses don't work for me. Countless men have been clapped using that as an excuse.

Disoma

Bravo vince now we have black straight rapist and white gay rapist. Truly masterful artwork. Sorry that I am being facetious but seriously I was hoping that she wouldn't be like Diabate.

Disoma

"Oh, its not like that your honor my client waited 30 days and only after the woman came on to her did she engage in sexual intercourse with the victim, Since my client waited and didn't initiate sex with the clearly drunk woman you cannot accuse her of rape" Sure Diabate is worse than Carol but what Carol did is extremely upsetting, and I hoped that she would have been better.

Disoma

Real

Disoma

Cool motive, Still rape.

YungZeus

I wish we got episodes of the other characters. Hopefully next season.

Disoma

This would not hold up in a court of law little bro.

MrOuijaII

"I'm not your dude" ... What a loser ass response to someone not even coming at you sideways. Even though I do not agree with Diabate and his actions, I think there is a bit more to his character, will the more justify his actions? Nah not really, but there could be something there, at the very least he is interesting and don't think he is just a throwaway 'villian' Either way, I think you just want to engage with the trolls so I ain't gonna stop you, have fun and take care, but I still agree on my original point of not judging people based on their opinions in fiction, remember Roshi siding with Eren in AOT and agreeing with Mass Genocide? Pretty insane but I'm not gonna call the man Hitler because of that opinion y'know, even though anyone calling for mass genocide in real life will surely be looked at as an extremist weirdo.

Disoma

Naw bro Carol is a menace in league with Diabate (though Diabate is worse). Hope Manousos will save us all.

Disoma

Cool Motive Joze, Still Rape.

SakuraBlossom

Literally! Like you have one black character and one gay character and made them both rapists? Vince, how sway???

MrOuijaII

That is actually a great episode idea, showing where all the other survivors were on 'joining day'. Would not be shocked if they have been keeping something like that in their pocket.

woahmikey

I have a theory that Pluribus, as a hive-mind virus spreading through radio signals, may not have originated on Kepler-22b at all. What if there was an even earlier planet that was fully infected and became a constant broadcast source, and Kepler-22b and Earth are just extensions of that same signal?

Gwyn

Not the from diner 🤣

Prune Chips

Diabate isn't black, he's Asian. Wait, NVM I misremembered where he was from Laxim and some of the others are asian, not DIabate

J Man

How is this show going to end? I'm hoping we get some UFO pulling up to Carol and Manousos... and Tuco Salamanca drops out of the UFO to join the Carol resistance

Mike A

The difference between Carol and Diabate is that the show intentionally frames Diabate as a creep taking advantage of the situation. With Carol we get to see her emotional journey from full on resistance to somewhat acceptance. That's why it's easier to sympathize with Carol than it is Diabate. As for the Hive, I don't find their intentions sinister in any way. They tell Carol they know she won't stop working to put things back, but that they'd prefer if she stop. I think they genuinely like Carol cause she's interesting to the Hive. I thought the excitement about the book was real.

Jamaal Ellison

As I commented before, we haven't seen the hive minds interactions with other people very much. I treat Zosia's interactions with Carol like with escorts or a Callgirl. The Hivemind is Feigning interest because they have an objective to accomplish, that's how i see all the uninfected interactions it's flesh and blood chat GBT. Or flesh and blood google gemini.

Oni Legend

Thats an interesting thing to bring up because you’re correct. Perception is reality and the perception we’re given is that the Hivemind(Zosia’s) dynamic with Carol leads one to think they feel and act a certain way towards her. But because we have so little time spent with the Others to see how that interaction is, there’s no real guarantee that the Hive truly does act differently with Carol or if thats its way of satisfying all the immune by using human faces to simulate real human chemistry. The only real thing we can kinda speculate off of is that Diabate asked the hivemind “have i acted in a way that you felt is inappropriate or unwanted” which could be potentially taken as Diabate came on to the Hivemind at some point and the Hivemind not really caring because it’s satisfying him

Atlas Creation

What the hell fastest 40 mins of the life..

Mike A

You don't know that they're feigning interest, that's something you're projecting. The Hive can't lie and we've seen how they are when they have to skirt around the truth. And this episode Zosia states the Hive is excited at the prospect of something new to read.

Ben Ben Tennyson

I’ve seen a lot of people saying Pluribus is a commentary on AI and while I can see that I personally really think the hive mind is really just if we could subconsciously use twitter, we feel things individually and then make everyone aware of it by tweeting about it. All the hive does is take away the act of scrolling and typing. Hell this comment section is the hive mind with the carol and diabetic being wrong and the non hive 12 are the carol and diabetic being justified folks. I’m grateful to be alive to witness how different things touch different people

Atlas Creation

Why would the same energy be kept when it’s two different situations?

Jamaal Ellison

That's fair I'm assuming that compared to the interactions the Hive has with Diabaté they laugh and joke with him, just like they do, with Carol.

Atlas Creation

Carol is just disgusting as the guy who forces himself on hundreds; potentially thousands? The end result might be the same but his repeated behaviour is clearly an indicator of his morality

traplikemaxxx

Funny watching people try to powerscale rape in the comments. Rape is Rape bruh, both Carol and Diabate are wrong for it. Even if the hive initiated, the real Zosia was still violated.

ShaquanVirse

My first request - Give me all Playstation 2 games but make them Updated for the PS5 - Also always have 10K Humans on COD Multiplayer at any given time having fun, please and thank you

Jamaal Ellison

I'm getting house of the dragon and Game of Thrones remade And we're gonna throw in Aegon's conquest and Robert's Rebellion while we're at it.

DJ Muldrow

Insane show, top 10 shows of the year

RedSunCrusher!!!

It's been a minute since I've seen the comment section get this heated so it's my turn to churn the pot I just remembered a similar situation like this. And it was from the second wonder woman movie where Diana wished for Steve back but he was in someone else's body and they had sex with each other. With that random person's body they basically sexually assaulted this man without his consent nor with him ever knowing about it this same situation applies here too.

A.

The hive is manipulating Carol, but Carol is participating in the violation of Zosia. If this ever getz s reversed, how will Zosia feel? But at least Carol only needs to worry about a potential 1v1 and not a 1v10,000.

RedSunCrusher!!!

Even though Zosia was the one who initiated it that's still rape at the end of the day. Because the REAL Zosia didn't even consent to this and she may or may not ever know about this if they ever return back to their original selves. And what she's doing to Carol is just more mind manipulation in my point of view.

Atlas Creation

Some of the takes in these comments are so polarizing bru. Like.. diabate was clearly alone before the invasion and is overcompensating by forcing hundreds if not thousands to fulfill his sexual desires consistently. Is the hive mind manipulating him? Most definitely yes but his consistent behavior is reflective of his character. People gotta start realizing that explanations are different from excuses.Every survivor I believe displays unhealthy coping mechanisms and diabate’s happens to be the big bad so if people dislike him, they are so very valid. Carol was isolated then the hivemind essentially started lovebombing her as manipulation and they forced zosia ONTO carol. Carol could say no, but she didn’t(which is bad because zosia had no say in it, they were essentially both sa’d)—but at the same time she was made craven by isolation. It’s easy to say carol raped zosia because it was carol who had more power in the situation but there is a things such as coercion exists. When it comes to sa, power dynamic is an important determine factor(like location, substances, pressure, etc) but in this scenario there is a third party that has the most power and that is the hivemind. It is the hivemind who puppets zosia and it is the hivemind who actively manipulate the survivors because they have no way to physically manipulate them. There’s just so many layers that people seem to just throw away for the sake of their argument. Like you can take any person’s actions in isolation and deem them a ___ person but there can be many factors that led that. People can be upset with carol and/or diabate but let’s not pretend like they’re the same because they’re not and we don’t need to be throwing away nuance from either side just to make your sides of the argument sound good

RedSunCrusher!!!

At least Carol had the back bone to not except the current situation like she fought back for a while and she still is. Diabate probably started to do whatever he wanted in the first few days I think what he's doing is far worse to what Carol did.

Atlas Creation

I have already said the end result is still the same but the difference is in their consistency and personal morality. Diabate’s disposition makes him do this stuff a MULTITUDE of times.

WAY

nah Bear Jordan is tough.

Eric Stormbringer

It's so fascinating to me how people steadfastly refuse to view the Hive as anything but absolute evil. The Hive has to be secretly evil- look they eat people! (that whole episode and the conclusion of that plot point should have clued people in that this show will require much more layered thinking than that) This rigid thinking is preventing people from exploring the nuances this show is clearly presenting. I said it in an earlier episode and I'm happy to see it beautifully illustrated with Carol succumbing to her very human desires. She is no more of a monster than Koumba is- she is a human being who has complex morality just like Koumba. This doesn't preclude the Hive from being manipulative. Their prime directive remains to assimilate all people. The Hive following their prime directive does not mean they don't care about Carol as a person. I think this episode does a great job at showing us this too. 2 things can be true at once- yes they are trying to assimilate all the survivors AND yes they are a legitimately benevolent species in general. That being said- onto more theory crafting. I said in the last episode that the Hive is busy constructing an antenna and that ended up being true. However, the conversation about Kepler 22-b has led me to form a second theory. While the theory I had last episode was that the Hive was a weapon rather than the antagonist- a new theory I am coming up with is the Hive is not a deliberate weapon from the inhabitants of Kepler 22b but is an unintended consequence. Theres 2 directions im thinking for this new theory: 1)The Hive was an unintended creation and the aliens on Kepler 22-b were assimilated and now died out due to starvation. In this scenario the Hive is propogating itself like a true virus- infect the Host- use the host resources to reproduce (build and transmit the signal)- which then inevitably leads to the Hosts death. OR 2)The Hive is intentional and is indeed intended as a gift not a mechanism of conquest. This would only make sense if the organisms on Kepler 22-b are not predators. Perhaps they get their energy from photosynthesis or some other natural process that does not include consuming other lifeforms. Such a civilization would not understand how nature works for life on earth and other similar planets and as such would not consider that a pacifist Hive-mind could lead to the death of other lifeforms. In either of the 2 above scenarios or the invasion theory I had in a prior episode- the conclusion remains the same. Humanity will have to save the Hive rather than defeat it.

Leopold

How do you know Diabate isn't being manipulated? Literally all the survivors are being manipulated just in different ways.

Francesco

Everyone talking about rape I think is forgetting that the hive mind while being a mind on his own is also the collective minds of the others. I know there's no real consent from Zosia (or anyone else) but we CAN'T compare that to real rape because the hive *is* consenting to it. So, if it would be rape then it also should be slavery and coercion everytime carol asks for anything because she is forcing someone to do something without taking in consideration that that person can't say no. To me, talking about rape in this situation undermine every real discourse about it

Saki 🏴‍☠️✨❤️‍🔥

I was sooo disappointed when Carol hooked up with Zosia - especially considering that they literally just re-established the fact that talking to Zosia would be the same as her cousin coming and talking to her in the same episode...like I get you're lonely but how do you not think of that on top of everything else the whole time too? It does seem possible it could be part of the 'charm offensive' title of the episode from Carol's side as well (on initial watch I wondered if the shot of her looking towards Helen's grave was a sign of some guilt or not, but on second watch I wonder if it's also possibly reminding her of why she's doing this), but regardless sleeping with her (the hive, really) is just too far for the same issues as Diabate! Even if they initiated it with Carol, it remains dubious consent at very best :/// Also I hafta disagree with Sheera in the sense that I definitely don't think I would want the hive going about pretending to do their usual routine and being who they were before, nor would I want them saying 'I' when they really want to say 'we', because I think the false facade of it all would just drive me crazy faster lol

SakuraBlossom

Can't agree. If you were in a coma and the shady hospital director keeping your body alive "consents" to giving a buyer sex by pimping out your mouth and ass, is it rape? Your body belongs to you and you're in no position to consent so obviously the answer is yes. This is nearly the same thing but sci-fi.

Jamaal Ellison

The path may have been different, but the destination was the same for the both of them. That's why the same energy should be kept. Does Carol get Brownie points because she didn't give In right away like Diabaté? Because she asked questions and tried to fix things? But if You read through the comments. A lot of the people that was condemning Diabaté are now trivializing Carol doing the same thing by saying that Zosia came on to Carol first. It was manipulation. what's the rules when there are none? Where's the uncomfortable gray between the black and white.

Francesco

I'm not sure this is the same because the direction doesn't own my body and can not take decision for me, while the hive mind is described to e the opposite. Or at least, this is what we know. The hive is not just an outsider, it IS the conscense of all the others. Even the indian lady or the chinese one are having sex (or being intimate) with their loved ones even if they are parte of the hive, I assume, so by your definition it should also be rape that. They are not another mind, they are theirs and all of the others so the consent of the mind should be the consent of the single one. At least, this is how they talk about themselves

SakuraBlossom

The actor for Diabate said he received explicit instruction from Vince to not make Diabate a stereotypical creepy guy in his acting. They wanted the actions to speak for themselves. People find him creepy because his actions make him so.

Jamaal Ellison

They're both starving people he chose to gorge himself right away and she chose to satiate herself after holding out.

SakuraBlossom

Didn't he already have his harem by day 2? What, does he have the willpower of a toddler? If he had half a spine and was someone with core values regarding consent, he wouldn't have folded and started a rape-a-thon within 48hrs.

Francesco

Also, I did not say this but I too think that what Carol did is problematic. I'm just being pedantic about the use of the word rape

SakuraBlossom

The director owns your body in a similar way that the Hive does. It's an outside alien entity that has power over humanity and is subduing the individual while puppeteering their bodies for their own ends like fulfilling demands they admit that they can't really say no (unless the Hive is in mortal harm it seems.) Yes, any sexual contact with drones under these circumstances should be firmly off limits, married or otherwise. Just like no one should be bad-touching you while you're in a coma just because you're not conscious and the person who has custody of your brain dead body is accepting of it. And even if you believe that the individual is truly dead, necrophilia and sexually abusing corpses is also reprehensible.

Jamaal Ellison

I think People find him creepy because they're applying real world standards to this fictional situation. Look at how people behaved during the pandemic. When we were supposed to be social distancing, look at how many people still went to spring break. Look how many people went to concerts and movies. Isolation makes behaved people do disappointing shit.

Kevin

Y’all be in these comments dying to have a “Gotcha” moment. Anywho, down with the hive.

Jamaal Ellison

By the way I don't agree with what Diabaté is doing nor do I think what Carol did was okay. I just don't believe people who Judge them for their extremely nuanced human responses to an apocalypse wouldn't themselves give In to temptation when everything seems so bleak.

Francesco

As they explained it, it doesn't seem the Hive is an entity with power OVER the indidual mind, but (as I understood it) it looks like all the minds are in a conversation. As Zosia said in episode four while in the hospital, they know what it's like to be her, single and alone, and what it's like to be they, all together. If they truly cannot lie we have to take for good this description, and so it is not a puppetter/puppet situation but a lot more complex one. *This* is why I think rape is a bad term, is far too "if this / if that" of a situation. Anyway even if we want to use this term, I truly cannot see how can anyone be angry with Carol. After being cut off from the entire world and forced to live without human contact for forty days, she is clearly starved for affection and I don't blame her, even knowing that what she's doing is wrong I actually can't see how she could have resisted and I think anyone thinking the opposite is being a little hypocritical

Gilthwixt

The show can be a commentary on multiple things at once. Last episode felt more AI coded than this one, and we watched that BEFORE all the shit with Larian and the Clair Obscur devs came to light. It's actually insane how on point the writers were about how even the biggest opps will change their mind and start justifying it if it means getting what they want.

Klaven

I actually think Carol is onto something with treating Zosia like an individual. Maybe that will go along way in potentially separating Zosia from the hivemind.

SakuraBlossom

I just can't not judge a person who would go on a rape-spree of hundreds just 2 days into an apocalypse. No resistance, nothing. That's an integrity issue that existed prior to the event. Has to be.

Evan

People in the comments acting like the situation with Diabate and Carol are the same are wild. They are both wrong, but it's the equivalent of someone who was manipulated into killing one person vs a serial killer who's just murdering a bunch of people for fun. They are not getting the same prison sentences. Also, I think a lot of these commenters have been manipulated by the hive as well. We're cooked.

Yazeed

did anybody else got annoyed because they kept talking over the dialogue?

Jamaal Ellison

Okay I've been thinking on something I'd like you're opinion. Do you think Carol still actually thinks of the infected as people or has she written them off? Because they said she killed like a billion people or something like that, including the Indian lady's mom and I can't remember if she felt bad about it at all. If in fact i do remember her credit to kill more people if she didn't get what she wanted. Do you think she does if not do you find that acceptable. My reasoning behind that is, if she's not looking at the infected as people, then I doubt he is either.

Jamaal Ellison

But saying she was manipulated removes the personal responsibility for her actions and decisions. Like the Hivemind was reenacting casino royale with Diabaté. With Carol they went on several dates and played board games. In both instances, the Hivemind manipulated its algorithm to suit both their preferred tastes. It's like Peter and the symbiote it's trying to give them what it thinks they need to stay connected to them.

Eric Stormbringer

Curious on your perspective here. If Koumba is a rapist in your view is Carol also a mass murderer?

SakuraBlossom

I think she sees them as people who are mindfucked by this alien entity. When she found out about the 11 million drones she accidentally killed when she got upset the first time, she became physically ill. And she still actively stops herself from becoming combatant with the drones because she doesn't want them to die. I think she still recognizes them as fellow humans but sees them as severly compromised. They've been completely mentally hijacked by this entity and - as of getting somewhat confirmation that this is a thing that can be reversed - are in need of being saved by the remaining 12.

Jamaal Ellison

Okay I remember her throwing up. There are so many shows, it's hard to keep track of them all.

SakuraBlossom

My immediate conclusion is to say, yes. She is an (unintentional) mass murderer. However, I was interested in whether or not intent matters so I looked it up and apparently Merriam Webster and Oxford Dictionary seem to disagree with my kneejerk response: "Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse committed ***with the necessary intention***" and "the unlawful ***premeditated*** killing of one human being by another." It seems intent is a defining trait.

Eric Stormbringer

Thanks for answering- with that in mind do you think the Hive isolating her was a deliberate manipulation or a way to protect themself?

SakuraBlossom

I think the answer could be a bit of both. It could be that they saw her current state as too dangerous to be in proximity with and they also decided they were getting nowhere with their current manipulations and had to up the ante. This hive seems to be acting entirely on self preservation and both interpretations are logical for their continued survival.

Eric Stormbringer

I agree with you! That's why I think it's a lot more nuanced on whether Koumba or Carol should be judged for what they did. The Hive has shown that it can remove itself from the situation if it chooses so both Koumba and Carol definitely had the consent of the Hive. The question is how to define the consent of the individuals whose body the Hive is piloting. What is their mental state? Is it as Zosia said where they are still the same individuals just now connected with each other and thus have lost their individuality? Is it that they "died" upon assimilation and simply their memories remain? Is it that they are trapped in their own heads either in a sunken place kind of scenario where they are aware and have no control or simply unconscious? I think these questions have to be answered before we can make a definitive judgement.

Leopold

If it turns out Diabate had no friends, no family, was a loner all his life and then the hive starts offering all these things for him, then yeah he was manipulated by them. Doesn't make it right, but he along with every other survivor has been manipulated by the hive.

Samoan Thor

Fuck both of them. Frenchie is a rapist and so is white trash. Next caller....

SakuraBlossom

I would be more willing to believe it was similar for Koumba if he didn’t assemble a harem of warm bodies within 2 days. That doesn’t spell much manipulation. To manipulate assumes there’s resistance. He reads as someone who saw that he could have what he wanted so he grasped for it thoughtlessly without serious consideration for issues of consent. And choosing to not stop even when confronted with said issues. I’m sure he has a sad anime backstory, but nothing can really justify the level of harm he’s causing and continuing to cause knowingly. As for the question of individuality, the narrative seems to be hinting that they still exist since it’s implied that this connection can be broken. But they are also referred to in the past tense so they are possibly subdued in some way which would be absence of consent. If this Hive comes to decisions via consensus, then consent is not possible. The others cannot or rather *should not* decide on what occurs to an individual’s body.

vesra

Of note, the creator said the show wasn't made specifically to be a commentary on AI, but he's on the record for being against the use of AI anyways.

mercury_black17

dont even bother with him hes a man child cant even debate without being mad rude

SakuraBlossom

Even if one is manipulated they still have a choice. Just as Carol had a choice here and chose wrong. Idk where the writers are going with this but I hope they think of a better sad anime backstory for Koumba other than “loneliness” as an excuse for mass rape.

Jadon

Damn comments is HEATEDDD...im just like "shit, look out."

Ben Ben Tennyson

Yeah the way the show interacts with/mirrors the real world is amazing. Really a sign of some great art

moné

these comments bruh 😭😭 anyway excited to see how the finale goes and how it leads into s2

Daily Dose

Sexual assault is a strong description for this situation. i think everyone is forgetting that the HIVE mind isn't a new alien mind but a collective hence the HIVE part. that means Zosia's mind is still there it's just accompanied with billions more. By what they explained this episode it's not a sunken place type of deal where everyone if forced to participate in things but more so knowing what everyone else is doing. the bio-transmission talk shows that and the physical touch explains that as well. it's like having 7 billion roommates that always know what you're doing. Zero privacy. That part is where is weird because children still exist. From what I'm understanding from the ep, they don't feel it but know it happened. Realistically in great detail. That's the bad part. but I'm not sure if SA is the perfect term for the unique situation.

vesra

This whole situation is fucked up. To me there's not a clear line as to what constitutes rape in this case as the Hive initiated and Carol consented. It doesn't appear like she withdrew consent either as they've spent a few weeks together seemingly living in Carol's home (jumping from day 41 to day 60). On the other hand if we consider Zosia (the individual not the Hive), we have no idea what she would have wanted if put in this situation; we can only assume that if her consciousness even still exists she can't have consented (nor could the other 7 billion others who are part of the hive). They can't say no or otherwise do anything that might make the survivors upset and because they have a massive power imbalance and a vested interest in keeping the thirteen humans complacent, any relationship with the Hive is in my opinion inherently abusive. To add to this: Carol and the Hive have been displaying abusive behavior towards each other from jump so at best this is just a really messy lesbian situationship where all their dirty laundry is just public knowledge. At worst, somehow they have created a situation where they are both victim and perpetrator of sexual assault? Maybe idk. It's probably nowhere near that deep and not at all what Vince Gilligan wanted us to take away from the show but I think from a moral/philosophical level it's a really interesting conundrum.

vesra

On a much more serious note, I get Carol cuz I too fell for the White Woman Mind Control after a prolonged period of loneliness and grief. It happens to the best of us. 😔😔😔

Delinda Arts

carol for the streets!!! *Future voice*

Miguel NoName

Also no one seems to remember that Carol has killed millions of people... but my boy gets his dick wet and everyone looses their mind... smh...

Miguel NoName

Also no one seems to remember that Carol has killed millions of people... but my boy gets his dick wet and everyone looses their mind... smh...

Jeremiah Neely

Damn. You know a show is good when the comments get toxic. lol.

cornett0

Lol I think people underestimate how crazy it is to be by yourself for so long. The world is literally ending and everything is at your disposal now. I'm not sure if I blame Carol tbh. You litterally have to be impossibly stubborn to deal with this. But I think homeboy coming will bring her back to her senses. Just to be clear , it doesn't make any of it okay but people aren't built for that type of environment.

Inconspicuous Pug

Vince absolutely cooked with this show, I’ve haven’t seen this many paragraphs in the comments since Pantheon’s series finale.

K0saka

You can’t hate on Koumba and then not on Carol, the fact is that the individual the hive is controlling cannot consent and it doesn’t matter whether sex happened immediately or after a month and some dates.

Inconspicuous Pug

Everybody acting like they’re Manousos when yall would be Carol. This reminds me of that smash tournament scandal where a 15 year old minor forced himself on above 18 players. Carol’s situation is nuanced, not the clear black and white that is the Mauritanian goonmaxxer with a higher body count than Dexter and Manouso. If you can’t get that then 🤷 Can’t wait to see this flame war in the comments section happen in the finale when Manouso finds out about the scissoring. Bravo Vince 👏

Solarsauce

I think maybe the hive can gain some individuality given certain circumstances. Zosia appears more human than everyone and when they kiss carol, they not only initiate it but also caress them like a person who is truly in love with someone, then again it could always be the knowledge of everyone on the planet. 🤷

jaahman

You can because there is a difference between the two. You can say carol is wrong but to act like both situations are the same is wrong.

Trist9n

This is a reaction channel, you want them to be silent the whole episode? Just watch on your own then lol

Kami

Oh poor carol 😢 she was manipulated and is so lonely what was she supposed to do?? where's all the "she's sleeping with children and her family members"? From episode 2? They cant consent, they are puppeteering that woman's body. French dude is worse but rape is rape if thats how you feel stand on it lmao

Kami

100% this. The virus connected everyone mentally. They are not being controlled by aliens. They have the will to subsume every other human but that seems to be pretty much it. The hive is making the decision to do it. Saying its rape is immediately shutting down all nuanced and interesting points the show can make. Its intellectually very lazy to nuke the conversation with the big R tbh its not that simple.

John sekiro

But you could tell zosia wanted to kiss carol the hive fucks koumba because they can’t say no

Evan

No one said "poor Carol." My point was they're both wrong, but one is clearly worse. It's called nuance. The whole point of this plot is to show Carol being broken down and foregoing her values she had early on due to the situation and world she's in.

john segun doe

I mean for the ppl who didn't see signs of Zosia and Carol doin tings in future eps coming from like ep 2, just haven't watched enough shows. Like you can tell that shit was finna happen from tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimeeee!!!!! But yh PPL better keep that same "Consent of host body" energy is all im sayin tho

Fred

New Births bring a question too are they infecting the babies out the womb? Or are they waiting for them to consent?

john segun doe

Absolutely spot on. Me and friend of mine who watch this together were also asking the same question with births

Nick

Pretty sure babies would automatically be infected. Seeing as how the virus was quickly transferred through just saliva in the beginning. Also, the hive mind doesn't wait for consent to infect people. They see that as the number 1 priority. They require consent from those immune to the virus since I guess the procedure involves some level of harm to the individual. Though if a baby is born immune to the virus, who knows what happens then. A baby can't consent, and it would take longer than the 10 years that they have before the baby grows up enough in order to do so.

Hybrid10Prime

They could say no but they don't want to say no, same way as they could pluck apples from trees but would rather not pick apples

Yazeed

That’s not what i meant. They kept talking over the dialogue and making jokes.. how is that reacting? Focus on what’s being said in the show and then discuss as much as you want but don’t continue to talk over it lol

Mansa

Ya'll are such fake virtue signalers. The number of people being slept with is not the issue. The very act is the issue. I knew the excuses were going to come the moment it was Carol's turn to take advantage. But-But-...........

levolly

thats such a black n white thing of viewing things, the actions are similar but you cannot say the intention or situation is

levolly

Diabate asked for that casino reenactment tho? Carol didnt ask for any of that, it was clear they were trying to manipulate her whereas he was using the hive for his own sick pleasures

Mansa

Credit to everyone who is keeping the same energy for Carol and Diabate. I wish I could say I was shocked that so many moral grandstanders would drop those morals and start making excuses for her, but I'm not. I wanted this scene to happen just to sate my own confirmation bias about the fake outrage. You either believe the hive can consent or they cannot. If you're flip-flopping based on the person involved, you never actually cared about consent, and that is disgusting.

chris

Ohhh how the tables have turned

N

manosous is gonna b pissed tf off with carol

john segun doe

“Well, well, well how the turntables…..”

lackingnames

Youre on the wrong reaction channel if you want to watch someone sit in silence and take notes and shit. This is how they are, and imo its what makes them better than any other reactors.

Yazeed

No i agree! I like them and i think they’re better than most reactors out there but in this video specifically i got a little bit annoyed because its seems like they talked a lot i guess.. that’s it

xLithion

What doesn't make sense to me is they are not even allowed to design robots that will be used by the intact individual humans to push a button and harvest crops because it still counts as them helping cause harm...yet they knew spraying the world with their virus would kill a billion people... and now they want to emit a signal that will transform whole worlds into them and also kill billions more. ALSO they know transforming worlds into them will make that whole world die in like ten years... so they are just constantly killing whole worlds like it is nothing but wont pic an apple. Stupid logic lol

Carlton

Wait !! so they can operate but they cant take an apple from a tree

Śtórmí X

This show is soo interesting Funtime watching it and Funtime reading the comments and threads about it.

Jett33

Technically humans are not the "world". Kind of a similar situation to Dr. Stone where the rest of the world will thrive as one species dies off each time this thing is born on a new planet.

john segun doe

The Hive cannot pick apples from a tree because their guiding principles prohibit them from harming, killing, or interfering with any form of life. Crazy work!! Lol the way I understood it is I the hive, in a sense, are not intentionally harmful unless for survival reason whereas their biological imperative kicks in in which THEY HAVE TO DO WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO to survive….. and guess what….. that’s us as humans too, makes one think and reflect on the parallels.

Jamaal Ellison

Stop that. In both instances The Hivemind was trying to make them happy. Carol asked for them to come back because she was lonely. When they returned, she immediately put them to work. Cleaning up the houses clean up the street, taking her out on dates. She wanted companionship, so that's what the Hivemind gave her.

Beetleborg

Having killed millions at the start of the session and now indulging in some plur1bussy; Carol you are on the naughty list this Christmas

Archangel Nathanael

What i find interesting is when the hive is reading chapter 1 of Carols new book. To me they seemed genuinely excited to experience something unknown to me. Though they believe joining them would make Carol happy but they seemed so thrilled to read and enjoy an "individuals" creation. The hive doesnt realize or understand where Carol is coming from, at least not yet, that they only got to experience reading that chapter because she's not apart of the hive. Im curious if thats gonna develop into something or im reaching and they are still acting to play Carol up.

Saki 🏴‍☠️✨❤️‍🔥

I also interpreted it as them being genuinely excited for those reasons! Idk if that will affect their whole 'biological imperative' thing or not, but it is ironic

Phroug

This episode is probably one of the scariest ones, it shows that the Hive really understands it now. They now have complete understanding of how Carol thinks, and they figured out that Carol responds far better to banter and shit talk than she does positivity. They knew trash talking her and actually beating her in the games they played instead of holding back would better gain her trust. They locked in during that time that they left her alone

WackySwacky

Carol didn't kill anyone. Every death is the fault of the aliens that sent the virus, no one else.

A L

wtf are you talking about? Zosia initiated with Carol after manipulating her into catching feelings. Diabate is going around sticking his dick in whoever he pleases. It says a lot about you that you think those two things are even remotely the same.

Carlton

Agreed but that logic is not being used cause they said their starving

RnicJaay

Humanity is cooked

Just_some_guy 7

Humans are very social beings. Loneliness will seriously do a number on a person psyche in one way or another. In Carol’s case, she broke down and became vulnerable allowing the hive to take advantage of the situation.

Just_some_guy 7

Literally. As a viewer it’s so easy to say “ohh that’s wrong” “ohh why would she do that” “I never would have done that” blah blah blah. This is a situation where it’s near impossible to stay sane and rational. She’s literally losing her mind

Just_some_guy 7

I understand what you’re saying. It’s super annoying when they joke or yap over dialogue, then they’re confused after, then they make theories and conclusions that dont make sense bc they didn’t pay attention.

Just_some_guy 7

I think people underestimate what loneliness, stress, and helplessness, does to a persons mind. Carol is literally going insane. No one would be able to stay completely sane or rational in this situation, especially when you have a hive mind of 7+billion people slowly trying to break you down. Everyone has a breaking point and Carol is about to completely shatter.

Neptune

I totally wasnt watching all the cars driving by waiting to find where the "loop" started.

john segun doe

I get where you are coming from there. I guess it's more so exhaust all other means first. All starving doesn't mean immediate death and thus maybe the priority to "take life" isn't on high just yet and they can still find other means without doing so. idk tho

john segun doe

My only concern is they have not brought up this "consent of host body" concept once in the show. Even with carol having sex with Zosia there was no pause or reflection after the fact or any sign of "oh this is wrong, imma do it anyway". This aspect of is not being addressed at all whether it was from Diabate or Carol who did it, and is truly a discussion within the fandom, which is odd. I'm basically saying my assumption going forward is that Carol will continue prolly engaging with Zosia as if she didn't just use another human's body without for her satisfaction without consent as diabate did and the show will not even comment on it in the slightest or even hint at it being wrong FROM A "CONSENT" POV, cuz my assessment is that the show runners mistakenly forgot to make "consent" apart of the larger narrative when dealing with stuff like hive/human takeover. And thus the "consent" discussion will fully be and stay within the fandom, which is weird from a directorial pov, like how'd you miss that point.

Drake Rage

Speaking of Carol Supporter's NUANCES (only when its convenient for them.. aka continued bias) to defend her sexual act.. You could say that Carol is worse than Frenchie since the rest of them said they are trying to find a solution to the food shortage to save the Hive.. They don't believe they can find a cure.. so.. since Carol is the one that wants to find a cure and bring back individuality... her crime is worse since she had a sexual encounter with the Hive.. and not the individual. Committing a crime against the individual. To Highlight and spell out the logic, If the rest of them think there will be no cure/no Individuality.. then Hive consent is what would matter for the rest of them. So Carol is the one committing a crime using HER OWN beliefs and goals and logic.

Kami

OK, maybe the first time. How could she have known but your gonna sit here and say she's completely blameless for ALL the deaths? Wild

Conk

didnt expect to get hard this episode

Dre 1K

you full of bs Zosia but i love you babygirl

Luiz Neckel

The hive is perfect for the Nostalgia addicted people we have nowadays.

Troy Deans

A good way to fix this is to ask them to be who they are supposed to be individually as a person that request would have to come with add ons of course they could force themselves to be who what ever person they are inhabiting

Spearbearer Josh

Its weird because they said the communication is unconscious like breathing. That suggests theyre a collective consciousness, rather than a singular hive mind inhabiting all humans. This is further shown by the fact that there continues to be accidental deaths. However the hive act like theyre all mind controlled and pupeteered, and no longer have any form of creative thought. Its seems like the writers dont know which one they want, or we dont have enough info yet

ChickenDinners

Yeah I get that sense too. Also all the people of the Hive that Carol has talked to have had their own little personality quirks. There was the tall dude who kept saying everything was wonderful, the DHL employee who talked to Carol after Zosia went to the hospital who was very timid and socially awkward. They certainly aren't perfect carbon copies of each other.

ZayJay

The double standards are crazy. If what the other guy did was SA then Carol committed SA. The other guy asked for consent to have s3x and the hive said yes; So, if you think its SA because the individual women didn't consent, then Carol did it too because the actual Zosia didn't consent, only the hive did.

ZayJay

He literally asks consent first. You act like he's going around holding down random hive women and graping them.

ZayJay

Also, it would be really messed up if we find out Zosia is not even lesbian or bi. Zosia is just a person that looks like the character Carol described in her book.

Squaler

How do we know this Zosia woman was into chicks? For all we know she was straight. You gimps in the comments are sheep. You either call what homeboy did rape and stick to it and you also call what Carol ended up doing (using a body to fuck) rape as well because the host of the body didn’t have a say, the hivemind did. This topic about rape is wild. These comments are the only place I’ve see it discuss this much. Get a hobby people.

A L

Dude. It's been established that they literally can't say no if he asks. That's not consent. Let me guess, you think a drunk girl can also give consent?

A L

How are you this dumb? He's getting his dick wet from day 1 from whoever he wants. Carol is isolated from all human contact for 40 days, and it's several more days after that before they take advantage of a moment of weakness and put the moves on Carol, who has been manipulated into believing that Zosia cares about her. If you can't see the difference between the two, then I worry about every woman that's ever alone with you.

zeanxe

I don't think it's bad writing. We just don't have enough information yet.

zeanxe

I think the only way we can tell if this is positive or negative is for someone to leave the collective, and give more information

GrandNubian

Interesting that Carol's response to loneliness was to beg the Hive to come back rather than try to make amends with the survivors -- she was able to mellow out and be civil to Zosia but not the remaining humans

GrandNubian

Interesting that Carol's response to loneliness was to beg the Hive to come back rather than try to make amends with the survivors -- she was able to mellow out and be civil to Zosia but not the remaining humans

GrandNubian

then how will the Hive discover how to Join the immune? that requires creating a new approach

GrandNubian

it might -- SA committed by women is typically treated more leniently by the courts

General Grevious

I like Carol but I gotta keep the same energy, I get she was lonely and everything but that’s still a collective consciousness and not a person so it’s still weird that she’s forming an actual relationship with “Zosia”. They have figured out how to subdue Carol in a more effective way😂

naa

im not even gonna engage with the freaks completely defending diabate. Just say you can see urself sexually assaulting people like he has and keep it pushing. And before someone says it, yes I think carol sleeping w Zosia was ALSO bad! But these diabete defenders need to go

Saki 🏴‍☠️✨❤️‍🔥

@Just I don't underestimate it, I just don't think partial explanations are equivalent to excuses. She herself has questioned the hives ability to actually consent in the past and knows its dubious at best, yet made her choice regardless

Saki 🏴‍☠️✨❤️‍🔥

@GrandNubian Its not especially surprising to me, trying to reconnect with the survivors runs the risk of further rejection when she's already feeling vulnerable, whereas she knows the hive is much more likely to return and cater to her

Kareem Davis

Probably because with Zosia she understands it's a biological imperative to take over people so she can kinda look past it. But with other normal people she can't stand how they're content with just going extinct. Just my guess though.

Bria A.

I'm not a fan of Stursia because I somehow hypocritically think it's any "better" than what Diabate does -- but I do think it's more nuanced re: intent -- I'm into Stursia because it's fucked up and compelling (mutual codependency is great when it's fictional) and I'm into toxic yuri lmao. It's weird that people are out here white knighting for the man. However, I heard someone refer to this as Carol's "I think the stripper is actually in love with me" moment and that's so funny. My sister in Christ, this is her job! (I will say a lot of my opinion can shift depending on whether pre-Hive Zosia was attracted to women or not.)

Dane

I would definitely use the hive mind powers to develop true sequels to Breath of Fire, good Final Fantasy's and Earthbound 3.

Adio Sebastian

Manousos is hardcore; his ethics and will are iron but it almost cost him his life trying to traverse the deep jungle - I wonder what his motivation is for being so adamantly against receiving any help from the hive, even if it was to further his goals, like Carol has done. His inflexibility concerns me because I doubt he'll look favourably upon Carol capitulating to the hive, however subtle, with her need to have the Zosia drone around for comfort/company. No one has willingly physically harmed the hive, yet, but I wonder if the hive will remove "Zosia" when Manousos arrives for its safety, and what sort of fiction that could create between him and Carol.

Raider

35:24 I’m with you Roshi

Kylian

Carol got lost in tht Zosia sauce Most people r folding not everyone is built like the Paraguayan dude .

Sasha

I'm like constantly uncomfortable and nervous watching this show

jim shields

this is my fav episode. the manipulation by both is crazy. Zoisa is definitely channeling Helen. Her tortured writer sarcasm was pure Helen. Also that diner is in BCS and BB. Same one. That booth and the rip in the seat is canon.

Nathan Hale

Now what. Both Carol and Koumba are sleeping with them.

Kaya

To be fair they are quite literally purposely using the body of Zoisa to appeal to carol, taking advantage of her loneliness and desperation, the resemblance to her book character AND her wife. It’s so obvious carol sees Helen in Zoisa and they know this lol they kissed Carol and initiated it as an attempt to keep her attached. Also important to note, all the time Carol spent with this individuals body and the way they made sure to imitate a relationship in order to keep her distracted. It’s manipulation, it’s intentional. Now I do still think sex of any form with these bodies is non consensual and morally incorrect but it’s important to understand the distinction between Carols sexuall relations and Koumbas. Context is important intention is important. He wasted no time getting in the pants of random women whom he had no emotional connection towards nor was he (as far as we know) coerced in anyway. I think this says a lot about his character. Not to mention how long Carol did not do anything to Zoisa even though she felt attraction (bare minimum tbh) because she knows it’s morally incorrect and she has a moral obligation to respect these individuals bodies and bodily autonomy even though they aren’t themselves anymore. Koumba didn’t feel he had this obligation. You could argue they manipulated Koumba but he didn’t even wait two weeks it was the first thing on his mind lmfao they also had no reason to due so cuz he never showed any real resistance towards them and their invasion. That’s just my take on it though idk I felt weird when carol gave in and fucked Zoisa but again! Her and Koumba are not the same to me maybe I’m not looking at it from the right angle but I’m seeing lots of nuance and complexities

Nate

yeah its still an a.i representation, the more time you spend with one specific a.i the more its catered to you specifically, but the conversations all gaslighting

hyakimaru dono

I suggest u go watch the tea video on consent and maybe read up on it becaud this was disgusting to read