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Pluribus Ep 9 (Patreon)

Published:
2025-12-29 15:00:45
Imported:
2025-12
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Hive apologists in the mud

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Comments

Alan

“They were waiting for their moment” 😂😂

RichxHim

YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS

KittensandMotorcycles

Bro there are STILL hive apologists out there online, it is insane to me

Jamaal Ellison

Wow that opening discussion was sure something.

Kia Love

Love the beginning convo, I agree with y'all

PJ Rivera

I love the opening discussion I dig how in-depth they take the shows they watch when there’s a lot to unpack and differing opinions

Rcola25 Jr

The beginning convo: I agree that the two characters in question had sex with the hive in two different ways. The dude was definitely about that action and Carol was attracted from day one but she tried to hold out as long as possible. To me it simulated general first date action. Dudes wanna hit immediately and the woman holds out until she gets a connection. But regardless, they both still fucked on the Hive. Lol We met the girl from the village in the 1st or 2nd episode when Carol requested an audience with all others that spoke English at the airport.

I VisiBomb I

It's the first episode I actually could understand the hate on Carol. Girl is driven SOLELY BY EMOTION, like no single logical thought has run through her head for DAYS. Also, as someone who would fall under the being depraved as per what you guys said (lol), even I can see theres a difference. both cases are fucked up tbh, but for different reasons. EDIT: the book Carol reads, according to google, relates to the topics in this season. and also some people have said that its interesting how theres a parallel between the vacation that she and Helen took to the ice hotel, and the vacation that she and Zosia took to the cabin, indicating that although human connection might be rough and not very pleasant at times, at least its human, compared to the warm and nice feeling a cabin gives, correlating to her connection with Zosia, but at the end of the day, its all fake coziness, a delusion to lure her in.

Jamaal Ellison

Requesting For All Mankind on Apple TV

Kami

Yea, point is if you think sex with them is wrong it doesn't matter she waited. Doesn't matter they initiated. All irrelevant, all the same points about dude apply to her. Is all i was saying, im sure they had some dudes say crazy shit though 😂

Jamaal Ellison

Yeah, It is what it is. "She came on to me" isn't an excuse irl you'd still be clapped.

Shu

Imma be real I ain't on no side cause, man

Xavier Ruffin

Apple TV suggestion: The Foundation

soulkiller

carol had her “the stripper loves me” moment and i can’t even blame her somebody get me a zosia

dream0nic

gets manipulated by a hive mind due to human connection deprivation, only to then deprive another ACTUAL person from human connection. only reason she locks back in is because her time as an individual is ticking down, mannn gtfo.💀💀

DJ Muldrow

“I’m Joel and this is Tommy” 😭 it does look like the house they got blicked in

Isaac Cobbinah

we saw them literally dress up a woman to attract carol, you dont think the hive did the same to the french man?

Jonathan Hart

Overall pretty decent show, but i don't get how it's going to last long when everyone in the cast is an average nigga with no scientific background. Not to mention the hive isn't violent, and yet I'm told this will have 4 seasons😭?

Xylophage

we don't know if they got manousos' stem cells necessarily but they did bring him to the hospital and presumably had to operate so they might have taken a sample from him then

Sam Lowrey

It's funny they don't remember kusimayu

Boogie

Roshi face after being right about the crate… priceless

Sylus Alvarado

Yall forget they got the 1# cars salesman in that mind as well lmao

DJ Muldrow

I don’t blame carol for falling in love w zosia, if you think about it all the top tier pornstars are in there, that thang was getting throttled. If teanna trump in there I’m falling in love too 🤷🏾‍♂️ not too much on my girl carol

The Boi

I instantly googled if you can get stem cells from semen and google said you ABSOLUTELY can😂😂😂 French bro is COOKED!

GameGod

Yeah internet mfs just be weird asf. I knew it was cooked when someone tried to argue with me on Reddit and half their Reddit history was them highly active in animated porn pages

PhaedrusRumple

The hive is a very manipulative group. They may not lie, but they will damn sure beat around the bush

PhaedrusRumple

The hive dropped all the culture once they realized they didn’t need it anymore

Ed-96

Zosia saying that they’re doing it because they love her is definitely what locked her back in. She probably had that exact same convo with her mother when she was sent to conversion camp, hell the hive are basically a metaphor for that considering she said they were the worst people even though they always smiled and the fact that they tried to change her even though she didn’t want to just like them

entity

That immediate loss of culture and way of life was chilling. Like nah sorry the hive gotta go.

entity

Also the Hive manipulating Carol into being combative, aggressive and on guard with Manousos when he’s the only survivor who hasn’t iced her out was crazy.

levolly

you clearly lack nuance

Jamaal Ellison

Now you want to talk about nuances, before it was just either/or. It's always been about nuance; people just needed to see another example before they could realize it.

J Man

It'll be funny if a temporary way to block the radio waves between people is Chuck McGill's stupid space blanket... The mylar blanket

Prxj3ct

Its irrelevant whether Zosia initiated sexual relations first because thats not the real Zosia who has no autonomy over herself and no consent to give. Carol knowing full well thats not the real Zosia regardless of manipulation still crossed that line same as Koumba. Even if Carol has romantic feelings unlike Koumba its still violating someone else. Of course theres a difference between a r*pist and a serial r*pist but there still viewed the same way. Obviously in the show there is nuance and I wouldnt call them that because of their unique situation. Either way Carol shouldnt get a pass just because she was manipulated, thats not how the world works; she morally did the wrong thing just like koumba.

LJ

As soon as I see the radio freak out, I’m asking for a faraday cage and I’m locking one of them in there.

Anon7524

3 things: 1. It's a Vince Gilligan show so S1 should actually be the worst overall season to most people, as his shows usually get much better in the latter seasons. 2. Roshi and Co have been blanking with certain characters on a lot of reactions recently, but that's likely due to the front loading recordings for the holidays. 3. Not sure if I'm gonna continue watching the reactions for this show for S2, despite me liking their reactions normally, with how fanatic some of the views shared by them and the comments that are just completely anti-hivemind and calling people basically crazy for even considering the positives to their own situation. You don't have to like pro-hivemind people or those who disagree with you, but being respectful is a must, something that has not been the norm for this show's discussions

Connie

Hive apologists and people comparing what happened to Carol with what Mr. Diabetes does must be watching the show on MUTE cause wtf?

Lamaree Jackson

I just watch this as the hive being high functioning zombies. Like everyone got body snatched. Been saying since the beginning the world is cooked. Even if they start fixing things, they’re gonna get mfs like the Governor trying to take over cause there’s no more world leaders

Connie

Carol going domestic with Chatgpt WAS a hard watch though

Paden Snell

image of one of the girls just immediately wordlessly leaving the room with a mouthful is killing me

Anon7524

24:52 On the rewatch, I realize this line is a Chekhov's Gun for later about this being a hierarchy based hive-mind for future seasons. Good to see it kinda hinted at early🙂

Jeremiah Neely

Carol pissed me off in this episode. She knows that woman isn't Zosia, yet her feelings, her empathy blind slighted her. That 40 day isolation clapped her and the Hive took advantage of that. Then when reality kicked in after Hive Zosia spilled the beans she relapsed. THE HIVE ONLY WANT TO ASSIMILATE YOU. That's their ultimate goal. They could care less about anything else.

GrandNubian

1000% agree with you on Point 3. I've skipped their reactions for the past couple of episodes due to how disrespectful they have been to those with differing views -- I just come to the comments to see what others are saying about the episodes. Still a fan of most of their reactions for other shows but I prefer other reactors ( like YaBoyRockLee) for more even-handed Pluribus reactions

Ernie

Final verdict is this and it's non-negotiable. How about we ask Zosia (victim) how she feel (if she'd return) cause i know for a fact not a single person would be joyous or even accepting if it happend to them.. This whole "they came onto her" "She was deprived" is not gonna fly, for ANYONE in the chat!! That's like minimizing trauma using an angle. And people made it into a gender thing is typical internet...

Paden Snell

few people going so hard for "hive good actually" in the comments of the first couple vids. i feel like they're failing basic humanity test

GrandNubian

why does everyone presume he doesn't wear condoms and doesn't flush them?

GrandNubian

I doubt they'll have the patience for that show

The Boi

I don’t think that would prevent them from collecting it anyways 😂

GrandNubian

when a woman is guilty, people want to talk about nuance

RYC

agreed roshi, at the beggining. its like the worlds been taken over by ppl w/ the sensibility of BBC News reporters. polite, but insidiously manipulative.

Paden Snell

one of the core concepts of the show is that carol is a miserable, difficult person. everyone getting so hung up on her not being a perfect plucky protagonist i feel like is missing the point. but yeah this is one of the few times i was like damn carol you really just throwing here for no reason.. but i get it. she was alone for months

Solemnity

Good thing Manousos didn't drive an American ambulance to Carol's house. He'd have an IOU of like $5,000,000...

Jadon

Damn lol I just like the show 😅

Carlton

yo Carol is not hard they are still playing her. they basically gave her a gun with no bullets.And what is going to stop them from just leaving if she actually wants to use it

Ernie

S2 E1 Carol: Give me every sample of my eggs and dont ever try using them or anything else to turn me. Hive: Okey we will do that. The End.

fatJahorse

How long we gotta wait until season 2 omg???

Who Knows

just to be clear i dont think carol filled manusoes on the hive seizing when directed with negative emotions. I think the hive told manosues along with many other things as well, like carols past, the intricacies of how they work. I wouldn't be surprised if manusos knows more about the hive compared to all the other immune.

Leopold

Remember guys, if you take 60 days to manipulate someone it's okay that rape happens.

GrandNubian

also ok if you're REALLY lonely, apparently

Driizzy

Aye my fellow gooner niggas I think we won💅💅💅

Flunk master

Yea finally understood how insufferable she is man team munusos

ChickenDinners

I love the Plurbs. We are one. We are all united.

Collin

What are you talking about 😭

Leopold

They were saying that what happened between Carol and Zosia was more acceptable because it took a longer time than Diabate.

lackingnames

damn pro hivers got upset, maybe if you were a bit more sane mentally you wouldn't care so much

Collin

It's mostly about them having established a "relationship" with Carol first. I think it's more human to have waited 60 days and eventually given in than it is to just start having sex with vessels immediately. I don't personally like that Carol did that, but the hive was manipulating her.

camille

Per the intro conversation; BOTH of these niggas are/were fucking around with the hive mind. Yes, there are nuances and manipulations from both sides that are there. However, if Diabate is a rapist for sleeping with them without the original bodies owner consent, so is Carol. Zosia's original owner did not consent to fucking Carol, neither did the people Diabate is sleeping with. Both of them did a bad thing, Carol just snapped out of her illusion sooner.

malfunct

great callback

Leopold

The hive is manipulating everyone. It doesn't matter if it was 2 days or 30 years. Their goal is to convince the immune to join them and to do that, they will achieve whatever desire the immune have.

Ginger Dwarf

Don't associate me with Hive apologists. Team Manuosos forever.

J Man

36:30 Did Roshi just bust out the Naruto "You are my friend!"

traplikemaxxx

Nah Carol been tweaking these last two episodes

Mitch Coob

The way the village just dispersed after the conversion at the beginning was so creepy.

PetersThimble

The solution to this is just to manipulate Carol into saying something else in a round about way or leaning into that statement not being specific enough. semantics. Something like you never stated what anything else was so we took it upon ourselves to assume you meant X and not Y. Remember they see non converted ppl are drowning individuals, they’re not going to just stop because they said no. Just like how Carol asked them to not bring up Helen and Zosia still did anyway during their conversation before the bomb

Collin

The difference is that Diabete has been consistently manipulating the situation and Carol has been actively manipulated by it. I'm just failing to understand how the hive participating in manipulating whomever they need to is justification for calling Carol a rapist.

Pulse rifles suck in pve

I love how the unjoined families like Laxmi and the others didn't care about reverting the world because they still had their "loved ones" in their life and Carol called them crazy for not wanting to fix it. But as soon as Carol has someone to help her but has a "loved one" she cares about, she doesn't care as much about saving the world anymore. It makes you wonder if Helen didn't die, would Carol have even cared from the beginning

PetersThimble

The complete erasure of culture at the start of the show is the horror most ppl watching have been lacking to pick up on. The performance of it that the hive put on and the immediate silence when she was turning is awful. Culture is survived by those who put it out into the world and now there is no one to continue her traditions because the hive has no need for it.

Prune Chips

Its not more acceptable. Carol just has less responsibility than that other guy

Fuji

listen man i already knew what it was day one they have the people in a genjutsu they will wake up next season lol

Prune Chips

I think she's using Zosia as a partial replacement for alcohol.

Mitch Coob

Don’t know if it’s been mentioned already or not but that was Tony Dalton aka Lalo Salamanca on the phone with Manousos

Joni

Bruh the only reason Carol decided to join Manousos is bcuz she learned she's gonna get converted in a month as well? She acting like she's a saint trying to save the world but she's just a selfish individual

Amori

No it wasn’t

Ernie

In that case....Drop the atom bomb today!

Ayanda Mpofu

Great 1st season. Carol ordering that atom bomb was the cherry on top 😂. Also i know more people are gonna die before they find a cure but i still hope many people get to come back.

N

never in my life would i have guessed that carol would go for the toxic yuri route

yoyoyo

Yes it was confirmed weirdo

cornett0

I get the hive mind as in they are genetically wired that way, but as a human being...fuck all of them. 🤬🤬🤬

cornett0

it literally is lol, just look it up.

soulkiller

some people in this comment section thinking they’d be The Chosen One when it comes to the hive actually kills me man😭😭

JadenSays77

The vitreal people have for Carol is so weird to me. People treat Carol like she’s the antagonist for some reason. Throughout this whole season, Carol has been grieving, suffering from depression, and spent an entire month in complete isolation, all of which were caused by the hive. The super intelligent hive is the actual problem with this entire situation. I get not liking Carol’s personality as a character I guess, but treating her like she’s the problem is crazy to me. Like, the hive is super intelligent and a master of manipulation and they clearly used their knowledge of manipulation to take Carol, this grieving, depressed woman who had just been completely isolated for a month, only a couple weeks after losing her wife, and seduced her. All for the purpose of stalling her, and forcing her into joining them. I fw Carol and Manousos, I’ll be rooting for them next season fr

JadenSays77

Where are you getting this “she’s acting like a saint” thing from? She realized she was being manipulated and given a 3 month time table for her death essentially, came back and told him that he was right and she starts working with him to save the world. What about that exchange said “she thinks she’s a saint” to you?

User10101

Nah the goat running to its "owner" after she transformed got it 🥹. Cause how was she convinced to turn??

Pop n Lock

i think shes supposed to be a bit hate-able. Carol is a massive hypocrite while also being incredibly self righteous, Im fairly certain its a criticism of the whole "American Exceptionalism" shit, they insinuate that pretty heavily with the framing when they all meet in Air Force One. Manousos however is what the real deal looks like. A lot of Westerners or really mainly Americans claim to stand against a lot but the moment it becomes inconvenient for their comfortable life, they give up. Carol is an example of this, at least imo.

Nightcap Art

It's cool seeing the differences in her relationship with Helen vs Zosia, Helen pushed her to interesting new things like the ice hotel while Zosia takes her to the extremely safe basics.

Ernie

Perhaps a bad comparison, but i heard a joke, that white americans is liberal until a minority moves into their neighborhood. Whenever i hear people opposing other characters in this show i instantly know they are fake. If u JUST remove the law like (the purge) people would switch instantly, every person who won the lottery has changed their behaviour/situation, imagine if u had the world at your finger tip... Yeah righteousness my ass.

Kami

I think its more because she's the main character, let's not take this to a weird place even though yes some people admit this. Its like how some people think Walter white or light yagami are the heroes STILL. Shes the protagonist.

JadenSays77

I definitely see where you’re coming from. I think she’s written to be unlikable, but I more so am referring to the people in the comments who take it to the extreme. I think Carol, up until when the hive left her was moving the same way as Manousos. I don’t see her character change in the last couple of episodes as giving up the moment things became inconvenient, I think being isolated for a month on top of grieving her late wife made her crack. I just think people should give her character more grace, because she’s ultimately on the right side of all of this along with Manousos

Clinton the Bingethinker

53:14 so I think the POV shot of Carol silently piecing it together/figuring it out is simply amazing. I had to watch it twice. Huge kudos to Rhea Seehorn for conveying so much with no words. Great acting!

Joni

the part where she says let's save the 'world' when she just wanna save herself? she only came back to her senses when she realized she's now fucked. she's acting like she wanna do good deeds for human beings but she's just scared for herself

MrOuijaII

This episode made me feel so embarrassed for even giving the hive a fraction of leeway the last couple episodes and I applaud it for it tbh, fell into the same trap as Carol minus the scissoring, great writing and pacing. Manousos was a splash of cold water to both Carol and the viewer, he is who Carol THINKS she could of been. Also, loved the note of him giving the hive fair warning on his experiment so they can lay down and suffer no casualties, I feel like a lesser show would turn him into a maniacal 'ends justify the means' type of character. I'm not too particularly happy about VG stating he has not even written anything for the next season(s), I loved this show but it feels more like a prologue if anything. That works if VG has had a story pretty much planned out similar to Breaking Bad but it does not appear so here, for context Apple ordered this show for 2 seasons back in 2022, 3 years later we get 9 episodes and if interviews are anything to go off, Season 2 has not even started being written yet. We may be in for another 3+ year wait, although I hope I'm wrong.

Jake Rosendahl

VG did not have BB planned out, he had an idea for the character progression. He didn't even write a lot of it, many writers contributed to the show. He didn't even write all of this show season 1, no reason to be concerned with season 2, the writing hasn't even really started yet till January.

Leopold

If you think Diabete hasn't been manipulated you haven't been paying attention. The whole opening scene this episode proves that the hive will go along with whatever and as soon as they get what they want, they drop all pretenses. Diabete thinks he's in control, but the hive is working on making him part of the group the entire time.

JadenSays77

“Let’s save the world” to me doesn’t tell me she considers herself a saint or that she’s acting like a saint. Are you saying she doesn’t actually want to save the world? I think if saving her own life was her only motivating factor then I can see where you’re coming from, but I just don’t think that’s the case based on the majority of the season. Or at least that’s how I see it

Ernie

That was so well done, how they showcase their culture, heritage, music and closeness, and then it went silent and they dispurse. Perfectly done. It really is jarring seeing several people on screen and they walk around not saying anything or even making noise. Really makes u take stuff for granted.

jerry

What is she claiming to stand for besides not being absorbed into the hive mind? And don't forget Manousos was probably willing to starve in isolation, Carol's message is what inspired him.

MrOuijaII

You could be right, and hopefully so, but Breaking Bad only had a year wait between Season 1 & 2, a lot of the writing I'd assume was likely done or at least cooking. This may not see something for a while and the story has much more potential for bad writing or ass pulls vs breaking bad with it's high Sci-Fi concept. During the airing hyping it up saying we have plans for 4 seasons then near the finale saying 'Man I aint even start writing nothing lmao' is a helluva turn

jerry

I mean she was on the original save the world trip, her message is what inspired Manousos to leave his isolation. She's not a saint and clearly doesn't think of herself as one, you can tell she struggles with a lot of self-loathing. She's a deeply depressed person who was close to suicidal after it seemed like she was totally alone and her fellow 'survivors' hated her and were unwilling to help. She has gone through periods of righteous anger and meek submittal. Basically just an average person caught up in a crazy situation. I know people wanted her to snap back into Avengers mode as soon as Manousos showed up but you could argue she needed to turn the corner to wanting to live again. I don't think she's especially selfish.

Inconspicuous Pug

It’s going to suck having to wait like 3 more years for next season, but I trust Vince will cook. The fact that the worst seasons of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul are season 1 means it’s just going to get better from here on out.

lackingnames

If you think that was the crux of their argument then you're either stupid or willfully ignorant. They said the main difference was that Carol was the manipulated, where as Diabate was the manipulator. Inherently completely different situations. Pretending otherwise means you're just stupid or willfully ignoring the facts just cause you're an argumentative child. Either way, sit down and calm down.

Inconspicuous Pug

All I’m saying is if I’m unplurbed and I was Zosia I would forgive Carol, but if I was part of the Mauritanian gooner’s harem I would castrate him.

jason thomas

You guys should consider watching Paradise. It's a decent show

blitzman08

i can't even lie, there are so many braindead people in these comments, so little nuance or critical thinking. just reading was exhausting enough

Ernie

Explain yourself please?

K0saka

Probably will have something to do with the electrical signal that they’re emitting once they’ve been joined. Manousos will either build a faraday cage based on what he’s researching, or they’ll somehow make an EMP and use it on someone. They did bring up a solid point about whether or not reversing it would even cure the person. What if they just get kissed or breath the gas again, would they join the hive again or would the forced disconnect make them somehow immune?

MonarchXIII

Idgaf I'm still team hive. Individuality just ain't it for me ngl. Give me that happiness.

Lele M

I’m glad yall set things straight because folks have lost the plot.

Lele M

The hive are hella sus because after the girl is joined they ignore the former girls pet goat. If they actually care about all life why would they not take care of life in a loving way. That feels very nefarious to me.

Joni

i get wt u guys r saying, but my point was that she wouldn't be back to saving humanity if she didn't find out the hive mind had her egg for stem cells. she would've continued to sleep with zosia n forget about saving humanity if she didn't find out she is gonna get fucked in a month or so. she wouldn't have cared if she wasn't gonna turn into one of the hive minds. that's why i find it like she's acting like a saint that she thinks she's doing it for humanity n not for herself. she will ESSENTIALLY be saving humanity by this action, but her motivation came back for a selfish reason

Ben Ben Tennyson

I’m calling it now Diabetes is going to be the hero in the end and it’ll be revealed that he is in fact not a gooner/advantage taker of women but instead just painfully French/European in that all that shit he’s been doing isn’t inherently sexual culturally to him as it is to us Americans. But that’s just a theory, a goon theory

Lele M

The scariest scene in the whole show imo

Lele M

Yup knowing full well there’s no reason to think this guys is dangerous

Xemnas27

Overall I thought this show was very interesting, though the characters fell pretty flat compared to BB and BCS. Curious to see where they go in the future

Ben Ben Tennyson

Also the main basis of this take that he could just be painfully French/European is that the show never explicitly states that he has sex with any of them. All we see from my memory is the bath scene where there’s no explicit contact between him or any of the girls and where carol tells him he has a haram when he tries to recruit zosha and he tries to sneak in a “nah chill”. But that bath scene can be chalked up to bro just being French and not inherently seeing nudity as sexual. But like at the end of the day it’s not that deep, let’s just hope we get a second season of this show so the hive apologists have a second chance to end up being on the right side of history maybe

blitzman08

a goon theory is right lol

Ben Ben Tennyson

Manusos and Diabetes gonna save the human race by talking Carol out of dropping the nuke and reversing the joining 💯

Leopold

How do you think Diabate is the manipulator in the situation? The hive is just giving him what he wants to make him think they're good people. They just manipulated Carol in a different way. I'm not defending the man from his actions, but you can't think that he's the one truly in control.

Magnis

S+ tier

Inconspicuous Pug

Well assuming I remembered everything when I was part of the hive and I was in Zosia's shoes, I would understand that Carol is a victim too. When the hive ostracized Carol and left her void of human contact for 40 days it genuinely can cause negative psychological effects. Its half of what makes *solitary* confinement a punishment. Now after 40 days, the hives comes back starts flirting with her and kisses her, it would be over for most people. I would not be happy with her having sex with my body. I would be disgusted, and mad that my autonomy was taken away. Yes Carol raped me, but I would not be mad at Carol, because she wasn't the one who took away my autonomy. She wasn't the one took the consent away of the human race and turn us into slaves. Its the virus who I would absolutely despise. They are the one who are forcing women to say yes and be raped. I probably couldn't be in the same room as Carol for a while if I'm unplurbed, but ultimately I would forgive her. She wasn't like Koumba who started fucking everyone the minute he realized he could. That guy deserves to get his horny privileges taken away.

Ernie

I do agree sort of, the way u phrased it made it seem more innocent from Carol, It's your body so i supposed u could go that way. However i do think the whole "40 days alone!!" is being over-played too much, having a whole town to yourself is literally nothing, imagine being in prison/quarantine? i think people are exaggerating being alone for that long, most of us have lived longer alone, but i can coply that we act differently individually. If Zosia is heterosexual that would probably put a big dent in her initial behavior, regarding how she approaches it. Imagine a guy who's straight and another guy rapes him. I use dude on dude rape cause i feel like most men can understand with that vs if a women raped a man.

Lele M

Everyone is aware he is being manipulated. He’s not being manipulated into collecting sex slaves tho what are we talking about.

lackingnames

Rape isn't inherently sexual to europeans... That's not a goon theory that's called braindamage

A L

I'm so glad Roshi addressed the clowns in the comments of the last episode. It's the unfortunate side effect of having a popular channel, even though most people are sound, you're still going to have that portion of the population that are simply knuckle-dragging troglodytes spreading their garbage opinions around.

Jamaal Ellison

Serious question looking for a serious answer, why is it when someone has a different opinion than you, you have to call them a bunch of names for simply not agreeing with your opinion? And when I say "you", I don't mean you singular.

Gilthwixt

So these are the mfers who want to be Tang in NGE 💀

A L

Certain kinds of opinions make people garbage imo. If somebody gives an opinion that's racist, homophobic or misogynistic, I would hope as a society we would want to shame that person. Unfortunately I don't really have a particularly positive view of the human race as a whole, but certain people need to be called cunts sometimes.

LC

She was in the second episode, one of the unturned that Carol meets (she can speak English). And she said she wanted to turn then - I'm guessing since she's from such a close knit community, it must have been pretty scary and lonely for her to be the only one not part of the hive. It is interesting that the hive mind won't pick apples but can let things die through inaction, because that baby goat is definitely gonna die on its own without someone taking care of it.

MonarchXIII

Hell yeah brother. Give me that Instrumentality flavoured Fanta lmao.

Jamaal Ellison

So you subscribe to the Dr. Perry Cox way of thinking which reminds me of my favorite quotes of his. Lady, people aren't chocolates. D'you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with a bastard filling. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine."

Batison

This is why ya’ll are favorites, incredible commentary

ChickenDinners

They explained in the second episode that they let all animals go free. "All zoos are empty, all dogs off their chains." They can't harm life nor can they keep them locked up.

ChickenDinners

They said in episode 2 that all the plurbs emptied the zoos and let dogs off their chains. They can't harm life and they have to let them live freely.

ChickenDinners

To be fair, I think Carol is an anti-hero if anything. She's clearly a miserable alcoholic and was even miserable in that flashback with her and her wife in the ice hotel. Sure she can be insufferable but that doesn't mean she's wrong or right for that matter depending on your perspective. I do hope she becomes a better person in the next season. Now that Oviedo is by her side she can see how rude he treats her. I hope that's a good mirror for her to see how she treats everyone she comes into contact with.

ChickenDinners

Efficiency and progress over tradition is the hive's motto by the sound of things.

ChickenDinners

Carol has been hypocritical at times but who isn't?

ChickenDinners

They don't have to communicate with words anymore. Now they can just perform tasks for the betterment of humanity.

ChickenDinners

She's been like a bipolar drunk the whole season. She flip flops constantly and treats people like crap but when Oviedo does it to her she gets upset.

Jamaal Ellison

Carol and Zosia had a whole jon snow and ygritte in a cave sequence. She really in love with Zosia this was sad. "We've been loading up a gun in secret we just need your permission to shoot you in the head."

ChickenDinners

The pros on a global scale far outweigh the cons. One of us. One of us.

ChickenDinners

The Hive was the initiator and took advantage of Carol in a fragile state to win her favor. I don't think that's anything like the dude who forces himself on people who literally can't say no. They have to consent because they can't make choices that can hurt people. The Hive being the initiator through Zosia is a COMPLETELY different dynamic as I explained.

ChickenDinners

Lol one of the positive aspects of the Hive - no money or payments required for whatever you want lol

YungZeus

Still took an L for being on Reddit tho

CentipedeKid

They preprogrammed Carol to not want to work with Monustos. "You dont have to talk to him" "You can leave if you want" "We dont think he'd hurt you". These things are cunning. They got Carol good for a while. She really started to think of them as people again.

CentipedeKid

Sheera is dead wrong for thinking Monustos the guy that travel thousands of miles would be a raider. Lets say he is and traveled that far to kill Carol what would he get out of it? Carol was tripping this episode.

ChickenDinners

She's not Zosia right now though. She's the Hive acting through Zosia to get Carol to dance in the palm of their hands. That is inherently manipulative. She holds the power with the knowledge of over 7 billion minds backing her in unison. She has the knowledge of every therapist and psychologist who understand human behavior. It's like a professor or psychologist taking advantage of their patient or student. The Hive is the one in the position of power. They masterminded the entire plot to win over Carol. The Hive played Carol in the best way possible. Unfortunately for them Oviedo is around. I also didn't make my response about biological sex or gender identity at all.

Mansa

"Yes, carol raped me, but I would not be mad" is an INSANE statement.

ChickenDinners

She's an alcoholic man. She doesn't make the best decisions... Far from it. Remember when she had them restock an entire store just for her to buy microwave dinners? She has always been irrational, but that doesn't mean her heart is in the wrong place.

Gfgfh

I think Roshi and Sheera have watched it off cam already.

ChickenDinners

Yeah it isn't the same AT ALL. The Hive has the upper hand. They have the combined knowledge of over 7 billion people including therapists and psychologists to manipulate Carol. The Hive acting maliciously through Zosia is NOTHING like horn dog does to people who can't say no. The Hive literally can't say no if it will hurt someone's feelings.

Mansa

This episode made me hate Carol so much. She was fine with talking about Zoisa like she's her property to Menuso. And was perfectly content to let the world burn as long as her fantasy was fulfilled. But the moment she can't have what she wants, she snaps back to her senses to "save the world". If they didn't have her stem cells she'd be in bed with the hive and a glass of wine. Pure selfishness.

JadenSays77

That’s true, she’s fs not the traditional protagonist of a show lol. And you’re right, the snapping scene in the house could definitely be a launching point for some deeper self reflection…but I can also see them bringing the worst out of each other too lmfao. They’re dynamic is going to be fun next season

Eric

Media comprehension of a turtle lol

SakuraBlossom

Carol's brain is completely stir-fried. Even now, she mainly gives a shit because her time is up lol. I'm supporting just because she's part of the opposition, but Manny of course is the true MVP Manousos for the win!

Eric

scrubs was peak

Ernie

I've seen 6 similar post and frankly this is hypocritical and insulting. Imagine posting about others opinion and comments but not bring any retort back... Imagine if i criticized Ronaldo sucking at fotball and people asked me how to improve and i just say "meeh such a bad player" Either bring your A-game and conduct a flow of ions through your brain tissue and actually retort the comments... Easy to say "these dudes are dumb" 'Anyway, my lord may i partake in a crumb of cookie because i give basic take, or rather no take at all...

Mansa

The issue with that is the Hive does not own Zosia's body. Even if you think the hive consented in that instance, Zosia did not. Carol KNOWS this and still chose to have sex with her. The hive "loves" them all equally. Why would it consent to Carol but not Diabate?

ChickenDinners

I think the pros of the HIive FAR outweigh the cons. Humanity is currently on the path of self destruction. Whether it be by lack of resources due to overpopulation or climate change, the outcome is clear. We are too selfish and individualistic to care about the greater whole. Most of the greed, wars, racism, etc. are due to people in power using textbook manipulation to divide and conquer us. We have the combined power to overthrow our corrupt oppressors whether they be governments or nefarious billionaires any day of the week but we don't do it. Yet, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Mass amounts of people die in unjust wars and we can still sleep like babies at night. I'd say humanity as it stands are the true psychopaths. We allow so much evil everyday and do nothing. People die and we do nothing. The world slowly rots and decays and we do nothing. The Hive for better or worse, is the vaccine to our virus.

RonaldoVC

Me casually blocking out the eggs being frozen conversation until the liquor cabinet scene and did not come to the stem cell conclusion 🙃

Ben Ben Tennyson

Name me where in the show they tell or show us anyone but Carol has had a sexual relationship with anyone in the hive, all they show us is bro giggling in a bathtub with women and your brain inserted sex into that. Now if you want to tell me him sitting in the bath with women is rape then cool that can be rape in your definition, I’m just theorizing that the show will reveal he did not ever have any sexual contact with any of the hive and bro is just painfully French and just sees chilling topless with women as a non sexual act similar to how in japan chilling in one of those hot springs ass naked with a bunch of people isn’t sexual either the way that it would be perceived if someone tried to do that in Murica

A L

Are you ok? What are you so upset about? I'm still trying to figure out what part of what I posted has anything to do with the inane drivel you've just posted.

Saki 🏴‍☠️✨❤️‍🔥

That opening scene with Kusimayu was so sad, she just wanted to be with her family, and even given Zosia it was still a bit startling to see just how human they acted in order to convince her to join them :( Its the way that if they cant reverse this then that's the last time that anyone would sing those songs or inhabit that village and continue any of their practices...the loss of culture is devastating, and they really hammered home the colonizer aspect. Also this is the first episode that Carol actually pmo fr 😭😭 her and Manousos were funny to watch together, but girl wasn't just cooked, she was deep fried :// Here I was last episode really hoping she had something up her sleeve or was trying to get closer in order to learn more or something of the sort, not just be out here attempting to recreate domestic bliss. Yes Carol, "Zosia's" love for you two is exactly the same because she is NOT your girlfriend anymore than anyone else on the planet is and you knew that from the /get go/. And the way she said 'You win. We save the world.' was a funny call back, but oh, just now that you know you cant also live the fantasy? Get outta here man 😭 p.s. As a fellow wlw I kinda hate how so many people are acting like this is great lesbian romance or 'toxic yuri'...like we don't even know if the actual Zosia liked women before (and it makes me uncomfy how Carol seems to beat around the bush on the possibility of that not having been the case too...) and everything about this situation is icky and manipulative, intertwined with dubious consent at best and the fact that Zosia's female form is just how the hive chooses to present itself to Carol Also 'I'm Joel, this is Tommy' was both hilarious and accurate lmao Sidenote: Part of me still wonders if Carols place is bugged or not though because after finding out the sensor was from Helen she didn't ask again if they actually did have any such things hidden in her house themselves still

Pulse rifles suck in pve

Youre right we're all a hypocrite at times but theres a big difference over being a hypocrite over something small and when it means saving the world versus not caring anymore

SakuraBlossom

I still don't get how the Hive can be seen as a good thing by anyone. "Well there's peace" um of course there's peace because it's all one entity. They're not going to fight themselves lol. It already killed damn near a billion when it took over everyone's bodies without their consent and is still continuing to use and abuse those bodies for their own ends without a single consideration to the desires of the individual the body belonged to. The Hive is horrific.

ZayJay

Nah his logic is trash lol. If we were test it, he would definitely commit a logical fallacy unless he truly believes that (For Example), A PDF who gets approached by a minor to do inappropriate stuff is bad, but not as bad as a PDF who approaches minors first to do inappropriate things. Me personally, I think both are equally as bad.

A L

Regarding the question of how Manousos knew what would happen when he yelled at them, he would have got that information from his conversation with Zosia. She told Carol that he asked her extensive and detailed questions, and I'm guessing one of the first questions would have been "why did you all leave her?" and "why did you come back?". He also would have wanted to know why the others don't talk to Carol, which is how he would have found out what she had done. Another thing I noticed this time that completely passed me by the first time was the exact moment Carol realized she had been cooked. Zosia says "we're doing this because we love you", which is almost certainly the same thing her parents said to her when she was sent to the conversion camp.

bron1999

I think it has to do with the "different opinion" being morally ridiculous

YungZeus

This comment is hilarious with that FP pfp

CentipedeKid

I'm glad Roshi was never about this hive shit

MonarchXIII

Oh how I wish Fire Punch would get an anime adaptation lol.

Uly A O

Carol having an A-Bomb is a failsafe for her. She rather die than be in the Hive and the Hive rather not lose a bunch of people nor would they try to attack Carol. So if they choose to try to gas her, she’ll set it off. Worse case Manousos is left on his own and become main character for rest of season 2 or 3? Only thing I can think is that if Carol end up joining the Hive it would have a genuine effect on the Hive. Because her personality has been fighting for so long it would, imo, it could cause a division in the Hive long term like a virus just the same as the Hive. In the sense that they absorb that personality in billions of people, tbf, so an unlikely event, but hey for all my MHA peeps all it takes is one strong mind to truly fuck up a large ego.

Lele M

Oh yeah I recall. It irks me that their lifestyle and ideology are not congruent.

Disoma

Real Shit Manousos is the only person I'm rooting for anymore. I don't fault Carol but I wish I could be half as dedicated as Manousos.

Ace

That girl in the beginning was one of the English speakers that said to carol she want to be with her mom/aunt again. (Something along those lines, she isn’t new though)

Eric

By killing everyone. Y'all have no thoughts. You're volunteering to be invaded and overtaken because you never made it past intro to sociology.

Disoma

I can understand what Carol did, but I don't excuse it. If you compare her to Koumba she is far better but still in the same league as him unfortunately. I think it depends entirely on whether or not the people can be saved / whether or not they are still somewhat conscious. If it is the case that the individual people are dead and Plurb (the hive) is just piloting the bodies then Carol and Koumba are just fucking dead bodies. But if it is the case that the individual people are somewhat still there and can be saved both Carol and Koumba are effectively raping unconscious people whose bodies are being pimped out by Plurb. I do think Koumba is worse considering his flippant disregard for each person's individuality and how he has Sex with them serially, collecting women in a Harem. But Carol really isn't much better. Carol in my mind is an amazing protagonist because she represents how a normal person I think would react, flawed, realistic but also somewhat delusional. I'm looking forward to the next season.

Saki 🏴‍☠️✨❤️‍🔥

i dont think she thought that he was sm as she was saying it wouldnt rly be strange for carol to consider the possibility, but that being said the whole raider aspect doesnt make as much sense for this verse cuz other than 11 other individuals things pretty much everything is up for grabs already lol

Eric

Show where Carol had a sexual relationship. Implications aren't allowed with you apparently, so we can't assume Carol did anything beyond kiss.

Disoma

I think the clearest point where Carol is being delusional is how the Hive uses Non-binary pronouns to refer to Zosia's previous partner, tip-toeing around it. If Zosia was a Lesbian the Hive would have no reason to not say She, but if Zosia was straight the Hive would have preferred to Soothe Carol's mind by not indicating Zosia liked men, and not women.

Disoma

The Hive will not do anything that goes against them spreading. If they have Carol's eggs they will not give them to her. No matter how much she asks.

Eric

But they said if a pet is attached to an owner they would take care of it, while leaving the loophole "if it refuses to leave its owner's side." AKA they are purposefully killing off millions of pets that can't fend for themselves simply because it might walk away from its owner for a minute. That's even worse.

Disoma

Naw bro that was me sorry, them pages got me in a spin cycle. I'll do better next time.

J Man

The Pluribus Hive is Kyubey

Trey Milliner-Williams

They shutdown that singing like they America shutting down the black pride after February

Hybrid10Prime

The strawmanning is a bit much, dude. Chill.

J Man

This egg theory ended up better than Sheera's Train to Busan egg theory

Eric

Funny you say that. Look up prison rape stats. Men are much more likely to fall in to prison rape culture after a long stint in solitary confinement.

ShaquanVirse

I second the notion "i can't even lie, there are so many braindead people in these comments, so little nuance or critical thinking. just reading was exhausting enough"

Danielle

“They’re just getting Carol to convert” they’re getting BOTH Carol and Koumba to convert! It is an evil entity preying on BOTH of them. I too had the same opinion abt that man, but it’s the hive who are the biggest rapists above all. They want both their souls. They pimping individual bodies out and consenting on behalf of the individual to prey on both. It’s dubious on all accounts. The problem is y’all are seeing them as people and not as the entity that it is. The individual is gone. The entity is after the people who remain. That must be taken into account when discussing anything Carol or Koumba do because they are being preyed on.

I VisiBomb I

they just watched the 3rd impact and were like "yeah, im up for it" which is understandable to an extent, but unlike the 3rd impact, here the entire human consciousness is being controlled by a single objective instead of just being happy-fanta-people.

jerry

Again I just don't see where Carol is 'acting like a saint.' From the beginning she was motivated to save the world, she's struggled and was worn down but now that's what she'll be working toward. Would it have made you happy if she said "I'm only doing this for selfish purposes" to Manousos at the end?

Nick

You can't say that one is worse than the other and then still put them in the same league. That doesn't make sense. Carol obviously isn't in the same league because she was being manipulated and fell into the trap, and that's after she was starved of any interaction for weeks, where as Koumba was taking advantage of the situation from day one.

Ben Ben Tennyson

I like how you think, fuck it new goon theory is Carol a hive virgin too😈. Only person who’s been penetrated this season is Manusos by mother nature so build up that FRICO against her

ChickenDinners

The virus is a psychic glue that bound all of humanity together. The Hive is a combination of all of humanity. That's what a hive mind is. Every individual is literally everyone. They aren't pimping out bodies. They literally said they can't make decisions that would hurt anyone. They literally can't reject anyone's advances. They're still manipulative of course. It's a "kill them with kindness" mindset.

ChickenDinners

omg I forgot about the egg Busan thing.

RnicJaay

Fuck the hive!

ChickenDinners

Nick speaking facts. The Hive has the combined knowledge of all of humanity which includes therapists and psychologists. They know how people think. The Hive (through Zosia) literally initiated the intimacy as the position in power. The Hive is basically a super-intelligence and Carol is an infant by comparison. If the Hive didn't have all their rules about kindness and non-violence, Carol and the rest of the individuals like her would be finished. They're basically working with handicaps and STILL come out on top much of the time. It was mentioned that the Hive can't make decisions that hurt anyone's feelings which is why the Hive literally can't refuse Koumba's advances. Is it still manipulative on behalf of the Hive to get people dependent on them? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that those individuals, Hive or not, can't say no to him.

ChickenDinners

To be fair, the Hive is the combination of all members of humanity. That's what a hive mind literally is. Every mind on Earth is one moving towards a single purpose. A hive mind refers to the collective thoughts, ideas, and opinions of a group of people, often functioning together as a single entity. To play devil's advocate for a second to foster interesting debate and discussion... How many future lives will the Hive save with there being no more poverty or war? What about mass deaths from overpopulation or climate change? There's no doubt humanity on its current path will eradicate itself eventually. Our growth is unsustainable with limited resources. The Hive undoubtedly will save more lives in the future than it has ever taken given enough time. It is a vaccine for the virus of human self-destruction and selfishness.

Besaw

Vince said in an interview last week that they just about wrapped up writing episode one before they went on the holiday break. So it'll probably go into production in late 2026.

ChickenDinners

A hive mind refers to the collective thoughts, ideas, and opinions of a group of people, often functioning together as a single entity. People don't disappear, they're just part of a larger whole acting as a single entity. The Hive has thoughts. The population will just slowly dwindle until the world is sustainable again. Current humanity is not sustainable. Our growth and selfishness will literally damn future generations to suffering and death eventually. Perhaps it will lead to our own extinction. If you were born in that future generation where there's not enough breathable air or drinkable water, wouldn't you be unsympathetic of the generations that came before you that squandered everything? Of course you would. Current human trajectory is literally committing mass genocide of future generations and we don't care as long as we're happy in the moment. At least the Hive thinks about long-term sustainability and has environmental consciousness. Is it alien and bizarre and scary? Of course, I wouldn't want to lose most of my individuality either, but I'm thinking of the future prosperity of humanity here. I'm thinking beyond my own life.

SakuraBlossom

The Hive is an alien mind virus. If it were just a combination, they would be able to create something new and innovative with all this knowledge but they can't. All the human minds are under severe suggestion at the moment by this other entity or foreign encoding. "How many future lives will the Hive save?" None. Because what they've done to humanity is akin to death. Death of self, death of desire, death of dreams, death of culture while puppeteering the comatose bodies. Solving mass deaths from overpopulation? Humanity *may* reach destruction eventually, however, the Hive dying out in 10 years is a certainty. This is an alien invasion and infiltration likely to cause eventual extinction. Possibly so some alien species can come pick Earth clean of its resources. The Hive can't pick an apple. Their survival depends on cannibalism and they will run out of product. Nothing is being solved. They are destroying the human race.

ChickenDinners

You were correct on some points and incorrect on others. The Hive as they are, can't sustain over 7 billion people. Eventually the population will dwindle until human life can be sustained without destroying the environment and dooming the world in the future. I think you should look up the definition of a hive mind to gain some clarity. Who says they can't create anything new? I've never heard of that specifically mentioned in the show. They're even constructing a giant antenna to broadcast the virus elsewhere. Also how is it an alien invasion? No aliens have arrived. There's been no hint that interstellar travel is even possible. The Hive through Zosia even said that it would be unlikely they'd ever get to meet the lifeforms on Keppler 22b. I've also seen no intent of any outside intelligence vying for the complete extinction of humanity. If you have any evidence of those claims within the context of the show, I'd love for you to share. If anything the Hive seems to have long-term sustainability and is environmentally conscious. Thank you for your time :)

A. P.

I can't think of an example of another show where the audience was so divided on who to root for or who is justified... it's really interesting and hats off to the writers, but obviously, fuck the hive.

Lamaree Jackson

Just to play devils advocate a smidge—just a smidge—we don’t know how things started out for the freakazoid. If he was lonely and had no one in his real life (which we see he’s a clown acting out his favorite movie scenes) the hive could’ve pulled up immediately with a harem of bitches cause they knew he was lonely. Just cause it seems like he’s the one in charge in taking advantage doesn’t mean they didn’t start it. Just like what we saw Carol do to Zosia this episode when she said she’s mine and snatched her away from Manousos.

SakuraBlossom

So what you're saying is that the Hive will "save" humanity by killing the majority while the remaining live on as drones of the Hive with no culture, individuality, or dreams? And sustained on cannibalism for eternity somehow? You and I have different ideas about what saving means. I said humanity will go extinct because the Hive said it will go extinct since they'll run out of sustenance in 10 years. "Who says they can't create anything new?" You need to rewatch the earlier episodes of the show. Zosia said this almost verbatim. That's why they were excited for Carol to write her book because they can't make anything new themselves and wanted to read something new. "How is it an alien invasion?" Invasions can occur in many ways. Biological warfare is one. The virus is alien because it comes from space and it is not native to Earth as we saw in ep 1. Zosia confirmed a few episodes ago that this virus has taken over other planets before. Also considering the sophistication of the virus and how it exists on a particular frequency as was confirmed in this episode, it was likely created purposely. Considering all this information, it was likely created by an alien entity. And if it was created by an alien entity then what could possibly be the motive? Colonization and resource hoarding is the most natural answer. Otherwise who knows? Maybe they're omnicidal maniacs for the love of the game? lol.

Patsakorn Pariyapranee

I have been agreeing, it’s an invasion Day 1. Don’t lump me with these soon-to-be androids roshi 😅

MolagBallin

10 years of peace and then everyone dies and the planet is just full of animals, that doesn't sound like a win for humanity

YungZeus

Yall gotta be brain dead

Just_some_guy 7

If the hive is going with the iPSC's direction then why do they need her eggs? Those aren't needed at all or are useful in the creation of an iPSC. Unless they make the egg go through parthenogenesis which has been researched but to get a complete HSC match is impossible for us. I guess the hive will advance science it seems. Makes sense since they have all the greatest living minds into one.

WackySwacky

Nah, that's just this dumb ass comment section. 99% of people watching this were NOT fucking with the freaking alien slavers.

revolves.round.AVA

I agree with Manousos. It isn't human. The alien virus has taken over their minds and bodies. The only human thing left is the vessel. BUT they shouldn't murder all of them. And if there is a way to reverse it, I'm thinking what if the actual people are in some Get Out sunken place type deal?

A. P.

Lol a relief if true

J Man

The only reason I have the Chuck McGill space blanket theory at the top of my head is because they brought back Howard Hamlin for the voice message. Those space blankets might be the answer, even though they were dumb as hell in Better Call Saul

Slime SLAT

Ngl this was the episode that turned me against the hive lol.

vesra

That ‘psychic glue’ line seems like a romantic explanation of the reality of the Hive given Carol’s stress and fear at the time. The Hive is essentially just an amalgamation of everyone’s consciousness, not a vast collective of consciousnesses. They are one entity with multiple bodies, using the memories, skills and knowledge of the Joined as data points. Fuck the Hive (but not literally).

sol jam

I think the nuke will be used to bomb whatever is amplifying that radio signal!

Eric

You didn't watch the show apparently.

Lele M

but won't pick an apple off a tree like what...???

Eric

Manousos had a train run on him by a tree lol

Slime SLAT

They watch alot of shows so im not gon diss em for not recognizing her lol

ChickenDinners

I'm pretty sure Horndog McPlayboy said most of humanity would die. He didn't say everyone would. I'm also pretty sure we can't extract stem cells from eggs with our current scientific understanding. They would've had to invent new methods that currently don't exist to do that. The fact that they were able to discover ways to adapt the virus to those immune shows some creativity and ingenuity. They better have it with the combined knowledge and understanding of over 7 billion human minds. How do you know they don't have dreams or culture? I will use the giant antenna again as an example. They dream of sharing their gift with others the way it was shared with them. That is a dream. They feel like they're doing a wonderful thing. The aliens could be in the same boat. They could've created their giant antenna to share their gift too but that's just speculation on my part. They also help and provide anything for anyone that asks for it. If they didn't care about anybody including each other why would they go to such great effort? Hell why were they coded to be unable to lie and harm life to begin with? If the alien invasion virus as you refer to it was truly malicious, they could've coded it just to eradicate all of humanity from the onset, or forcefully covert everyone. Carol and any of the individuals like her can literally ask for nuclear warheads that they can destroy the world with and the hive has to do it. The virus doesn't seem like the ideal method to enslave or destroy humanity. It has A LOT of loopholes. Also everything humans do is culture. Many cultures that existed hundreds of years ago don't exist today as new empires and religions rose and fell. Not all cultures are created equal either. A culture that sacrifices their people to their gods surely wouldn't be a culture worth preserving even if most of them volunteered to be sacrificed (as many did within those cultures). They also could've been excited for Carol's book as another means for manipulation. I know they can't lie but they also withhold things that would otherwise distress her. Can you refer me to the episode where Zosia said they can't create anything new? Maybe the writers made mistakes but as I've called attention to they've clearly created new scientific advancements. Zosia even said they worked around the clock to do it. Also just to be clear, I make comments both for and against the Hive throughout the series to see where people's minds are at. I love to learn how our minds work through different opinions. To be clear, I don't think you're wrong in your opinions. I just like to offer differing ones to pick people's brains.

ChickenDinners

@Eric Could you elaborate? I don't know which point you're referring to and why. I'd love to learn more about your opinion. I love humanity and love to learn how their minds work. If you could be more specific, I'd greatly appreciate, brother. I'm very passionate about the preservation of humanity and nature. I'm literally a biologist with a focus on environmental preservation after all. I'm also choosing to never have children to not contribute to overpopulation. It isn't easy but I'm 44 and have gone this far. There are times I can be anti-natalist, but that's a different conversation altogether.

vesra

“Humanity is currently on a path of self destruction.” Meanwhile the Hive has doomed humanity to extinction (within 10 years mind you) because they refuse to kill or harm, which is a biological necessity for our species as heterotrophs.

vesra

They need her consent to make stem cells from her body. But those eggs she froze aren’t in her body, and it wouldn’t cause her any harm to experiment on them (from the Hive’s perspective).

Tbdovan

She did joke earlier about getting the atom bomb

Delinda Arts

I thought it was common sense to not wanna join the hive. I didn’t know there was pro-hive propaganda in the comments lmao. Nigga need to touch grass immediately holyyy lmao

Grelk

You are a born slave with this mindset, what?

Delinda Arts

Ngl if the Hive sent me Wunmi Mosaku as my chaperone, I’d been pan-seared, flambéed, broiled, and baked lmao but I ain’t joining that shit whatsoever 😂😂😂

Raymond Terry

People in the comments and other online were Hive apologists? that's crazy thinking.

Eric

You don't love humanity. You're opting to kill all humans in less than a decade. That's not something you do out of love.

WackySwacky

They should only kill everyone if the Hive is guaranteed to win otherwise. Better to destroy humanity then let the Hive proliferate. It might come down to an Adam and Eve situation.

vesra

Original comment got lost but I’ll say this again: The Hive is the enemy. Full stop. We can argue the ethics and ramifications of Koumba and Carol’s actions with the Hive but at the end of the day, they only want to propagate their infection by any means necessary. They are infected with an extraterrestrial virus that has fundamentally changed their behavior to such a degree that they will let themselves starve once they run out of food because they don’t want to kill or harm anything. Fuck the fake world peace. Fuck the fake niceness and politeness. This situation is a species-ending catastrophe if not resolved quickly.

WackySwacky

Zosia also used "we" instead of "I." Meaning Carol finally realized her relationship was all just a manipulation / lie by the Hive. Carol realized she was just fooling herself.

WackySwacky

ChickenDinners, being this dumb is a health risk to people around you. I can't help someone like you. Your parents have failed you. Your teachers have failed you. Please never vote.

WackySwacky

You can at least try to make your troll post a bit more believable. Amateur hour here. Could have asked ChatGPT to write an essay in favor of the Hive for you.

WackySwacky

You don't have to be the chosen one. You just have to resist.

Gilthwixt

Deadass I had to look up that scene from Last of Us S2 because I thought Roshi was actually right and they shot in the same location 💀

WackySwacky

Anyone who doesn't think this way ain't right in the head.

xLithion

Did carol even ever ask if zosia was into women? or if zosia would have been attracted to her? I feel like this shit so weird

ChickenDinners

@Grelk could you explain your position? I can't reply to your comment without any elaboration. Let's have a healthy discussion. All I'm hearing are insults and no proper dialogue.

Has Noname

I try not to be rude on this app, but what a pathetic self-defeating mindset. You must either still be a child, or have no emotional attachment to the people around you. Humanity has its problems, but at least we have free will. You’re okay with becoming a slave at the will of some other force because you don’t like how people act? Absolutely sad, and your parents and other adults around you have failed you

ChickenDinners

When did I say I want to kill all humans? I literally mentioned multiple times that Horndog McPlayboy said that MOST not ALL humans would die out in 10 years. I took that to mean that since the Hive can't harm any life, the population would dwindle to a level where there's no more caloric deficit as described by John Cena. We'd get down to a level where we can live off windfall and milked animals and water. We can create vitamins for any vitamin deficiencies with that diet too. Ultimately, the Hive are environmentally conscious. They aren't wasteful and will ensure humanity survives into the foreseeable future. The survival of humanity is more important than my life and your life. Future generations depend on us to be responsible today. Unfortunately, humanity as a whole isn't.

Mel

In my opinion to pick a specific side in this show is wrong because tbh the hive has qualities that would make humanity better vice versa, humanity has the quality of individuality. If you can tell me you can look around at the world today and fight as hard as manousos y’all are cappin hard . Imma stay in my lane lol

SakuraBlossom

"Horndog McPlayboy said most of humanity would die. He didn't say everyone would." That’s his biased, unreliable interpretation. "Pretty sure we can't extract stem cells from eggs with our current scientific understanding" We can. "The fact that they were able to discover ways to adapt the virus to those immune shows some creativity and ingenuity" Or it’s a repeat process from prior assimilations. "They dream of sharing their gift with others the way it was shared with them. That is a dream" That’s not a dream. It’s biological compulsion, not aspiration. You may as well say that wanting to take a dump is a dream. "They also help and provide anything for anyone that asks for it." They’re pacifying the unassimilated to force compliance. That’s coercion, not help. Also Zosia says they’re compelled to do it. It's not borne from empathy or kindness. "If the alien invasion virus, as you refer to it, was truly malicious, they could've coded it just to eradicate all of humanity from the onset, or forcefully convert everyone" They *did* forcefully convert them. Also they may see themselves as merciful imperialists, letting a species die comfortably before conquest. 'If they must die, let them die in comfort' sort of deal. "Many cultures that existed hundreds of years ago don't exist today as new empires and religions rose and fell. Not all cultures are created equal either." That doesn’t justify an alien entity erasing all human cultures and imposing its own. "They also could've been excited for Carol's book as another means for manipulation." Possibly, but it read more like reinforcing the lore that they can’t innovate. I don't recall the exact episode number, but it was early on, soon after Carol first meets the Twelve and thinks back on the mother of the group scolding her about not asking what the Hive what life is like. She has that first lore dump conversation with Zosia. Also agreed, I consider this show a good thought experiment so I enjoy discussion on it.

Sleepy Ninja

Welp… the next season will come out in late 2027 to early 2028. Until then, hope yall stay healthy so that we can react to this show together again. Happy New Year everyone! 🍻🥳

FlagCrom26

100% against the hive anyone who doesn’t think that is next level

General Grevious

We’re seeing in real time how the hive would get some of these people in the comments😂

vaguespirit

damn I swore it was him when I watched it but I didn't think it was actually him lol, at this rate they're going to have every BCS character have a line via phone in the show haha

Gabriel Sanchez

yall forgot about that girl lamo she did meet carol and say she wanted to be part of it

GonkDroidCritic

Be honest here, if the main character role were reverse between Manousos and Carol, would still you root for her? I find it quite odd for Roshi and Lupa to mock Manousos when he’s the most knowledgeable and unfazed by the hive manipulation. Especially the irony of her treating him dangerous the same way the other immune treated her.

Derbz

The hive will take advantage of their weaknesses to try and eventually win them over, the hive could have easily approached Diabate and "offered themselves" to him knowing that he likes an abundance of company, the same with Laxmi and her family. We see the great lengths they'll go to convert Carol so why are we assuming they're completely helpless "sex slaves" without a plan for Diabate.

Derbz

We see how the hive went out of their way to approach Carol from the jump, why are we assuming they didn't do the same for Dibate? He just accepted their "advances" earlier.. maybe because he's not a depressed alcoholic and wasn't grieving a partner. He clearly prefers abundance of company and I'm pretty sure the hive knows that.

Seibahhh

"complex characters" 1 is an unlikable lesbian and the other is a chad that wants to save the world

Atlas Creation

Thanks dude you proved my point by dumbing them down and making them non complex lmao. The jokes write themselves.

WackySwacky

Join the Hive bro. No one gonna miss ya.

John Fleming

Ok “real real” I get it, Zoshis a bug 🤣 but hive minds don’t exist. Irl the theme that hit so hard in this season is abusive relationships and manipulation. If you’ve ever been with someone with a “motive” who you knew always wanted to change you , this episode hurts really bad. The realization in Carol’s voice was blood curdling. Like damn “ you really don’t see me , at all.” When homie said “isn’t it evil to not see the difference between people and ants” translated to a relationship. I’m f’ing devastated🤣 Amazing writing , absolute banger. Deleting Tinder again

AshPaints

Plot comprehension Haki is a must

Slime SLAT

BRO I DIDNT THINK THE HIVE WAS THAT BAD

Francesco

I understand where you're coming from, but the Hive CAN'T survive, at all. Maybe it can sustain itself for longer than ten years, because more people will die and become nutrient and so on, but in the long run, since the Hive can't exploit either animals or plants, it WILL die. I'm all for being more enviromentally conscious, eat less meat and so on, but we as a species cannot live if we don't sustain ourselves with what our planet give us. It IS true that right now we are using too much resources but it is also true that we have to use them, even if littles. We cannot wait for an apple to fall from a tree hoping that this will be enough. There will be a time where the majority of umanity will be dead and already consumed for nutrient and then what? This way of life is a slow descent into mass extinction and the Hive doesn't care because its main objective is to spread the virus across the universe.

Eric

Are you envious of the intelligence that newborn puppies possess?

retrocalie

the roles were reversed…that was the whole point of the season, she was almost exactly like manusos until they were able to manipulate her

zeanxe

This might be the first time I disagree with Roshi. To say that they manipulated Carol, but didn't manipulate the other guy is crazy.

zeanxe

Ya if her being manipulated is an excuse then they are all being manipulated.

zeanxe

They are also missing that this rather religious for Native Americans. A good part of their religion is literally joining with their ancestors into a collective

zeanxe

Culturally a collective is part of Native culture. So this is actually a very spiritual process for her.

zeanxe

They don't have to talk because they talk with frequencies. Why would they need to speak?

zeanxe

Carol has her priorities right. Man wants to owe people for a hospital visit, but is completely fine with killing billions of people like WTF?

Bria A.

You can say this, but the culture immediately dies when she joins. The entire village put on an act and performed their "human typical" behaviors to make her feel comfortable. The ritual immediately stops, there's silence, nothing matters anymore.

zeanxe

There's silence because they don't need to speak anymore. We don't have enough information to know if the change is because they don't have free will or if it's because they have perspective. Imagine learning about everyone's culture at once. Even if you weren't a hive mind that would change you. Really looking forward to what they do with season 2

5lime

now how tf was they manipulating him when da nigga already had dem same girls and more...

john segun doe

Oh shit I didn't even Deep that!! The Hive prolly was using sex as a tool to lower his defenses around them and possibly have him one day take the next step to “bliss”. They could also get his stem cells from his Semen as well.

5lime

genuinely😭💯

john segun doe

ummmm go back to episode 2 and you'll have your female Anti-Hive person and they kept the same energy

Ernie

Drivel? because i demand answer? Honestly that would make anyone mad... u think that would fly irl? Standing like a mute idiot shrugging your shoulders....

ProKnockz

They got terry silver doing hive deliveries

john segun doe

I dont know about that. Even if Vince Gilligan had that in mind at one point the fandom seems to have parted ways with bro lool and V.G might have seen that. idk maybe tho

Ernie

The discourse is too decisive. We have (hive-apologist)(human-superiority) And then we have (Deprived Hive-collectivist) The fact that people enter reddit and read the most henious shit and be surprised... Just because u dont like dogs dont mean u love cats. If u think arguing pros and cons for hive v. Humanity is same as rooting for the hive then u just dont understand abstract thinking. The biggest issue is the people who are so bias that they cannot even comprehend outside the box thinking, (THE HIVE IS EVIL) for us humans yes, but when u argue only pro-human then u showing that u cannot partake in a civil discourse. People are complex and if someone is pro-hive there is clearly a reason for it. Ofc there are deprived sexual people who would enjoy making the world it's sex-slave. But they do not represent people who wanna bring a civil discourse We have people who experience war, famine, rape, Holocaust and other platitude of horrendous shit against humans, and people be chocked when u consider the other option!? My take is that people should atleast be heard and consider WHY people dont like humanity. It's privileged take to live in a comfortable bubble and the be surprised when other people who suffer wanna escape. Personally i wanna hear both sides. The human side is only saying: "humanity is superior/we need to keep individuality" "People are dumb" but are negating the fact that there are people who are not so jovial keeping that.

john segun doe

My theory was if Helen had been alive she'd be just like Laxmi

MBA

I genuinely think these 3 completely misunderstand the point of this show

Ernie

But they follow your order, having knowledge of 7 billion people means nothing if they cannot be persistent? If u cave to zosia knowing it's not her then it's on you, no matter what manipulation they use. I love the writing because it shows people would cave, because we are complex and the people who scream rape are the same that would cave for less. I'm applying same logic for people who wanna judge the characters because i know 100% people would be like diabate when they think they are manusos. Everyone has a price, some are cheaper than other.

john segun doe

@sha Native American? Aren't they Peruvian? The license plate read Peru.

Jett33

Who the fuck is saying what this freak is doing is the same as what Carol did?! Those niggas need to be put on a list!

A L

Yes, that tortured attempt at a metaphor involving Ronaldo was pure drivel.

Bria A.

Dunno if Roshi will even see this, but there are some interesting discussions on color theory regarding the show where blue represents the hive (various instances, the milk cartons, Carol wearing blue whenever she wants to appeal to them, her blue marker notes about the hive, etc.) and yellow representing individuality (Manousos's yellow car, clothing decisions, etc.) -- it's really cool. There are also some interesting uses of green acting as a middle ground color as well, particularly after Carol and Zosia hooked up.

Bria A.

Honestly this is a very "Native mysticism" view of the situation? I think it's a little strange to justify the actions by going "well she's Native so it's actually fine, she'd enjoy this" and assuming they've achieved some sort of enlightenment? Yes, this is the perspective behind *why* she joined and how they manipulated her into doing so (also, she's a literal child), but it shouldn't be the logic used to handwave things. They're people. No one will carry on the traditions anymore because there is no need for them. Everyone is the same so nothing is unique and they all function like factory workers.

Ben Ben Tennyson

Yeah that is a valid point, and tbh I’ve never seen any other show he’s made so I don’t know if he’s the type of person to do something super decisive like that against his fanbase💀

Kreative

I think they forgot this woman was the only one who actually wanted to join them from jump

Rob legacy 25

All I’m a say is there are definitely sexually deprived people on the earth but I don’t think it’s black and white tho cause what about the people have dreams to meet certain celebrities ,people they never thought they’d meet in life and the idea that most men wouldn’t give in is crazy cause all y’all would most people would compared to those who say they wouldn’t so most of the earth should go to jail or put on a list lol

Kareem Davis

Nah Carol kinda sucks. She really switched side till SHE was in danger. I mean, I guess the fact that her selfishness may save the world is all that matters. But Manousos is my guy now.

A L

How do you see that as even remotely comparable to what's being discussed? I genuinely don't understand how some of you are capable of functioning in society when you continue to miss the point by such a wide margin.

Woah cool!

Carol NEEDS social interaction. Depriving her from it and then having her listen to that long ass voice mail over and over, broke her. Plus they got Zoshia specifically because they knew she would fall for her. They broke her down so they could slither in and get her to their side. It really is not Carol's fault. We all got manipulated some way or form in our lives. She snapped out of it and we're back to business.

Ron H

Thank you for this comment - an underrated factor of that repeated voicemail thing is the psychological effect it had on Carol. That's the ONLY conversations she has w/ anybody, and it's not even a person or a conversation. She was beyond vulnerable and the hive mind knew that it would help soften her to the point where she might potentially accept the joining. Carol has been dealing with an all out mental assault to persuade her, and for some time, it didn't work. But we all break. Most of us here would be Carol, not Manousos, given we're put in the same situation. We're not built to survive that kind of loneliness.

Semistro

Respectable, but have you considered they might be capable of lying and just want to give the impression they can't as an strategic advantage to buy them time to develop the 'cure'. They might not feel happiness at all. And are just lying. They might internally be permantly as you see them seizing. The virus might be permantly paralising them so the 'we' host who is broadcasted can take over.

A.

Wanting to pay a hospital bill is where Manousos and I part ways. Healthcare should be a human right, not bought and sold.

A.

The reason conversation ends is because they're all one person now. There doesn't need to be a conversation with just one mind and one person cannot be a culture.

Semistro

Its possible they aren't happy at all, and are capable of lying but are programmed to convince the immunes they can't to buy them time - could be pure strategy. What i mean is, it could be a dual system, as they are hinting at with the frequency. And the infected people are actually in the permanent seizing state we see internally. The 'we' is broadcasted on that frequency and that's the one that does the talking. The 'we' has acces to all the brains. But it is already stated that the people don't share sensations. This highly suggest the people are just zombified. They might be internally just completely bugging out. From this perspective it all makes sense. Why does the 'we' not care that the people will be dead by then? Because it would have spread to another planet by then. It has a lifecycle and spreads like this throughout the universe. Connecting to societies. Like a normal virus would on our planet, this is just some out of control space virus that evolved in a society more advantaced than us. And it is succesful at spreading on larger scale because it travels at the speed of light. So it probably programmed to always have defense mechanisms to immune population. Just like a normal virus can get in a evolutionary arms race with it's intended host. It always tries to reassure the immunes because it buys them the most time to fix them. Those people might just internally be screaming "put me out of this seizing missery please!!!!"

ChickenDinners

How do you know what the aliens think? It doesn't make sense for them not to just eradicate humanity full stop. Such an advanced race that has been sending that signal since perhaps before human history even began certainly would have the means to eradicate humanity easily. The virus is such a poor way to destroy a species. It's a huge shortcoming from the writers if that's what they intended. What is more reasonable imo and it's pure speculation I admit, is that the aliens also are infected by this virus and are sending it out with the same directive that the Hive on Earth wants to construct a giant antenna and send it out. They truly think they're giving other species a gift. If that's the case, then the fact that the signal has been maintained perhaps before humanity even existed, means that those aliens on keppler 22b ARE still alive in some capacity, which means the virus isn't a death sentence. They would need someone to maintain the signal after all. This speculation makes infinitely more sense than aliens using a backwards ass method to eradicate humanity specifically, since if they had the capacity to come to our planet they could just do so directly. An alien species that has that capability of interstellar travel could just eradicate our planet or all life on Earth and harvest its resources if it needed. Like I said, the premise makes zero sense. The writers probably didn't think that far back, considering the whole premise of the show is inspired by AI taking over our lives as explained by Vince Gilligan himself. We're both getting too lost in the sauce of speculation at this point and are probably far beyond the scope of the show to begin with. This discussion has been so enlightening though! Thanks for sharing your opinions, it's been a blast. Feel free to send more if you'd like :)

Bria A.

So many people lack media literacy (and on top of that, are unable to separate controversial / terrible things happening in fiction from "the show is proposing that these things are correct", which can be true but generally is not), and the worst part is they will project that onto everyone else lmao. Like Roshi said, everyone wants a gotcha moment instead of engaging with the premise of the show and having actual discussions about it. People are so obsessed with analyzing stuff from the lens of this outside, holier than thou viewer angle that they forget that the characters in the universe have different motivations and responses relative to the things actively happening to them.

Ed

lol “you are my friend.” Is killing me!

Co

There was a reference to an atom bomb earlier in the season. Carol asked if they'd give her an atom bomb after they gave her a grenade.

Abigail

What do you mean?

aegismk2

well then, that escalated quickly

MBA

It’s not just hive = bad like they make it out to be, it’s about the complex emotions that come with prolonged isolation and the fact Zosia genuinely care about Carol and the survivors but they can’t go against their programming of needing them to join the collective. To them, the joining is their ultimate form of love, writing it off as just manipulation is doing a disservice to the writing and narrative in general. I see Vince’s vision but they seem a bit too cynical to be open minded about the nuances of the hive, atleast Sheera seems to pick up on it a bit better than Roshi and Lupa though.

GT-Harlem

Eggs are you serious -_- in that big ass container

heateduppizza

I do understand all that, but they're looking at it from a human perspective. Taking away all human individuality is horrific and while they don't mean to be evil, that is an evil act. And the hive is manipulating everyone, yes, they don't mean it maliciously but it is still a bad thing to do.

Ekko08

THIS. I fully agree with this. The discourse is too black and white when it's all just grey.

Ekko08

After watching the season I can certainly say that I'm not on either side and I can see the benefits of both. Can't wait for the next seasonnn 🏌🏾

Ernie

If u wanna name-call vs giving actual answers then i suggest u eject from this... U wasting screen time and oxygen.

A L

What the fuck are you on about? I haven't called you any names. I'm also not sure what exactly you're expecting as an answer. I think I made it pretty clear that certain opinions aren't worth arguing about, just like I wouldn't waste time arguing with a toddler. If somebody has a garbage opinion, why would I want to validate that?

Mavie

It’s insane that people don’t think with every living psychologist, behaviour specialist, relationship and love expert, AND everything your friends, partners, and family knows about you, combined into one they’re impervious to being manipulated. Lmaooo only chance y’all got is going the Manusous route and that would drive anyone insane; it’s obvious he’s been through some shit and is a very paranoid doomsday prepped type mf.

Ernie

On one hand the hive is so intelligent and managed to manipulate and coerce an author (arguably the one of the smartest people on the planet, behind scientist,engineer,lawyers,doctors) but somehow the people in the chat would not fall for the hives manipulation and would stand steadfast on their morals and value. People that could not hold a nut for 3 days saying they would resist is laughable.

ShaquanVirse

Are you dumb? You try losing human connection for that damn long and see how willing you are for a simple touch or hug or just talking

ShaquanVirse

wow, an idiot comment huh? It literally showed how they wanted to say no to the man

ShaquanVirse

I don't blame Carol for going with them. Remember COMMENT SECTION she was fucking isolated for a long ass time. Study psychology and you'll realize how hard it is to stay against the idea of just being with them (Not joining the Hive in that way but doing what Carol is doing) Isolation is a bitch and a half. Humans are literally the most social creatures on the Earth - Even someone like how Carol was at the start would break down mentally from Isolation - it's literally torture

Eric Stormbringer

See I agree with your basic facts on the ground, but my thinking is that there's a second option- saving the Hive. The Hive itself is a fully sentient species and if it can learn about consent then we could coexist with them. There are clearly people who would voluntarily join the Hive if given the option. Imagine a society where you have humans on one end who would be able to provide food etc that the Hive cannot for themselves and then trade with the Hive for their labor and expertise.

Eric Stormbringer

Reading the comments section is so interesting every time. The comments saying that this episode is what turned them against the Hive are especially enlightening. The Hive hasn't changed at all from the beginning of the show and the Hive itself has told us exactly what it is and what its goals are at all times. I suppose seeing is believing because Kusimayu's assimilation while terrifying from a human perspective is also beautiful from an external perspective- she is now one with and part of the entirety of humanity. It's both death and birth at the same time and both those events are simultaneously terrifying and beautiful. "The Hive is manipulative for isolating Carol." It is also simply protecting itself. We know that Carol has caused at least 11 million deaths and that the Hive does have some self-preservation instincts. That's why they left Manousos and Carol as soon as Manousos proved himself to be the same threat. Is it manipulation in this case too? Obviously not, as Manousos has self-isolated himself for all this time anyway so there is no reason they would think that "manipulation" would work. People seem to think the Hive should just accept whatever humans want to do to it as some sort of penance for taking over humanity when no creature in the world would work that way. I think what is really happening here is that people struggle with fundamentally disagreeing with a party without assigning malice. Yes, most people don't want to be assimilated so clearly the Hive that wants to do this is evil! Yet the show has gone out of its way repeatedly to show that the Hive is not malicious. Even after they just came out of a massive continuous seizure, they made a point to tell Carol that Manousos at least warned them before he did it. What was the point of this? It offered no advantage to the Hive to have Carol empathize with Manousos, but they did it anyway of their own accord. Like I said before- this being a Western show I fully expect it to eventually boil down to an "us or them" type mentality. However, I would love if this show surprises us and "saving the world" means saving both Humanity and the Hive. To me the Hive is a fully sentient species that we can and should learn to coexist with. This will require learning on the Hive's part as well- particularly consent- which is really the crux of the entire conflict. Looking forward to future seasons- Vince is absolutely cooking here.

Dubble Tt

"The road to hell is often paved with good intentions." The idea that they don't even see what they're doing as evil is part of what makes them fkn scary. Human beings believing they're doing the right thing have committed some of the worst acts in history. The hive could truly think they're doing the right thing while mutilating the entire human race. So, I understand giving them the benefit of the doubt, but at the end of the day, their actions and the consequences therof matter wayyyyyyyyy more than their stated intentions.

Dubble Tt

Ngl it's a bit alarming the amount of people who seem to focus on the "well-meaning" aspect of the hive as if it redeems them. Yall be so grateful animals can't talk... if a polar bear could convince you they had your best interests at heart, some of you mfs would be goop.

DArk

💯

WackySwacky

Dear, defenders of the Hive. The Alien virus is NOT just a psychic glue for human minds. It, at minimum, has subcommands that compel it's hosts to perform certain tasks. The biggest command is "proliferate." The fact that it forced itself on the human population as fast as possible, without regard to how many people would die as a result, clearly shows us that the Alien virus is not altruistic. It is merely a malicious virus that was made to enforce a flawed idea of peace on the entire galaxy. It could even be a *weapon* to incapacitate potential alien threats against the creators of the virus. We know that the end result of the joining is starvation and decimation of the human population. It is an attack on humanity, full stop. It is a false Utopia, as it is trying to uphold an ideal that is on paper nice, but in practice impossible. The entire planet can not survive off of windfall. You have to harvest vegetables. You have to kill animals. This virus will kill off 99% of the population by enforcing this ideal. This whole show is like a monkey's paw episode of The Twilight Zone, where it fully implementes the ideal of not harming others and took it to it's most extreme. The end result is the starvation of humanity. This virus is a very sophisticated weapon. It will kill off foreign Planet populations, or at minimum remove them as a threat by decimating their population, and ensure the survival of the creators of the virus by warding off Alien invasion. Even the slightest bit of critical thinking and scrutiny would destroy all arguments that this virus is good for humanity. It is obviously an attack.

WackySwacky

Finally someone with intelligence in the comment section. Thank you. This virus is a straight up weapon to cull rival Alien planets.

Eric Stormbringer

That's one of my theories- the fact that this virus is a weapon. However, it's not the only theory- it could legitimately be a gift. Imagine a photosynthetic species that evolved in an environment without predation. Such a species would think nothing of sending a pacifistic gift of unification to other planets because it would not understand the concept of a food chain or how this gift could be toxic to such an environment.

WackySwacky

I hear you bro, but you have to conveniently ignoring the fact that the human population will starve to death because of the hive's ideal of not causing harm to living beings. The Hive is a weapon to cull alien planets.

PersonaFyde

It seemed like she was specifically avoiding asking that which is why she emphasized the word “them” so Zosia wouldn’t mention a specific gender.

WackySwacky

Thank you Francesco. You actually understand the situation. The Hive is a death sentence for humanity.

Ernie

That's 100% true but then again the human race have done so much to cause annihilation towards mankind and it continues everyday, that it feels like people who root for the hive it's more like saying "fuck you, atleast i'm going out with a smile"

WackySwacky

That doesn't change the fact that it is a death sentence for humanity, regardless of intention. And I think an alien civilization with the technology to create such a device might know that not all species are like their own. In fact, they made this virus with other species in mind. So I don't agree with that particular theory of yours. It's quite difficult to posite this virus as anything other than a weapon. It was not a signal informing other species of this technology, it was the virus itself that was broadcast, which is blatant act of aggression.

Ernie

So that's the hill u wanna die on? U just gonna call something garbage and move on about your day? Very mature very productive. I guess u right, it is pointless arguing with a toddler. Cya

Eric Stormbringer

True, however- there's 2 big holes in the weapon theory that I can't quite grok with: 1)Sending the code at lightspeed is incredibly slow for a galactic weapon. Even from just Kepler 22-b that's at least a 600+ year journey and Kepler 22-b is really close to us in galactic terms. 2)If it was simply a weapon why not just code it to kill any immune and then auto starve themselves immediately after. It makes no sense to give the weapon any self-preservation instinct at all. The fact that the weapon is trying to self-proliferate leads to a third theory outside of the weapon or gift theory- maybe this is a true virus- in which case the people of Kepler 22-b are already dead, and it may not even be ground zero- it may have been a victim just like us. Going back to the gift theory from photosynthetic beings- perhaps such beings did know about predation and view it with the same existential horror we view hivemind assimilation. Afterall if your species is peaceful assimilation- predation and killing must look absolutely horrifying from that perspective.

A L

How do you go through life while suffering from such profound cognitive deficiencies? You just assume someone is talking about you and lose your mind over it?

Dune

I didn't see the comments from last reaction but the people who would join the hive are the same exact people who would join a cult if persuaded. There's no benefit at all to this. You're no longer you and you don't get to see or enjoy anything anymore. It's essentially what the viltrumites wanted. We know what's best for you so join us and your lives will be so much better. Weak minded people man and carol idk what the fuck she thought this was lol. You mean as much to them as the homeless man down the street like what?

Dre 1K

the hive put that thing on carol so good had her switching sides

jess (MODERATOR)

alot of niggas in the comments would not be missed if they joined the hive </3

WackySwacky

As to why the aliens would send the message via lightspeed, it might be because 1.) They didn't have other means of attack to their disposal, i.e. that's the extent of their level of technology, and 2.) It's a simple passive weapon that would affect all planets and spaceships that the signal runs into. Any sufficiently advanced civilization that could be a threat to the planet would be able to recreate the signal, which is cleverly using the victim species' curiosity against themselves. I agree that we have no way of knowing how many planets the virus has already infected. It could be hundreds. All the more reason to believe it's a weapon. If I were to speculate about it's original purpose, I think it was made to originally combat a particular alien species the virus creators were at war with, as a proverbial Trojan Horse, which then proliferated out of control and kept killing more and more species after it's original purpose was fulfilled. As to why it doesn't just outright kill immune individuals, it helps to keep the victim species docile and not feeling like it is under attack. Not to mention, this has a lot to do with the allegorical story being told in the series, which is that taking a virtue such as "Do no harm" to it's absolute zenith is actually hilariously short sighted. Another theory is the Alien who created the virus was well-meaning, but the result of his creation was actually something incredibly deadly that wiped out his own species before moving on to other planets.

Shawn Brink

Only real idiots call others dumb because they have a different opinion.

WarWolf (edited)

Comment edits

2026-10-05 14:00 almost crying at the baby goat scene is some real thug shit
2026-01-01 10:59

HBM

I think that's more so a reflection on how some of y'all were bred up 👀👀👀

HBM

Its literally set dressing and pageantry. What's crazy is that the Hive mind thinks they are simply being accomodating culturally but once they use this enticing bit of individual ephemera to process her assimilation, she will no longer have that, so from our perspective it's inherently creepy and manipulative--a performance to meet their biological imperative. This show is continuously a mindfuck in this way because we don’t know if the hive really knows how, or is gradually learning how to actively & intentionally manipulate humans or if their overtly considerate and caring nature is meant to constantly have us confronting and assessing the worst of our human nature and history. Thats the brillant and expansive tension of this series! I hope it gets all 4 of its seasons!

HBM

Y'all are really stretching for this one. First off, there's still a lot of questions up in the air about the Hive's ability to "manipulate" humans. Literally almost everything they do for any of the unjoined humans can be deemed as manipulation. They are alturistic to a suspicious degree, and even if the Hive did present sex as a tool to get in good with French dude, their aims to please are a part of their biological imperative to eventually achieve assimilation, so to them its not a manipulation, it is innocent selfless concern and acquiescence. We, as human audience members looking in can clock those circumstances as manipulation but that's not the Hive's conception of it, their priorities are much bigger. The reason I would say the idea that French dude was manipulated via sex is a false and unfounded theory is because these Hive hoes only uses what the humans want and what pleases them to remain close to them to eventually achieve their assimilation ends. If something else pleased him as much they'd use that. It's him that's leading with his dick, and the Hive is following suit for their own benefit. It’s completely strategic on their part. Dude is just selfishly having his fun as the world ends. It's not bigger than that. But I am interested in seeing the further development of that character. I'm curious of his past. And i wonder when all that sex and vegas partying will get old for him. How or if his hedonistic behaviors will escalate or change. So many possibilities.

HBM

Y'all hung up on the "selfishness" of it all as if an overwhelming majority of y'all wouldn’t be moving selfishly in her shoes. Likely worse. Sure, Jan.

Dubble Tt

Bro, they just asked you to elaborate and you refused to elaborate. Be nice to have an actual discussion about the point you made itself is all.

A L

I don't think I could be any more clear than I was. "Certain kinds of opinions make people garbage imo. If somebody gives an opinion that's racist, homophobic or misogynistic, I would hope as a society we would want to shame that person. Unfortunately I don't really have a particularly positive view of the human race as a whole, but certain people need to be called cunts sometimes." For example, somebody says that white people are inherently smarter than non-whites. Am I really obligated to explain why they are wrong? Personally, I would hope everyone would call them a racist POS and not waste their time and energy by giving their bigotry legitimacy. Obviously this is a more extreme example, but I don't feel like I need to explain myself to people who believe Diabate and Carol are both bad because they had sex with the hive. If people are that far gone that they can't understand the nuance between the two, why would I want to waste my time telling them why their opinion is wrong and reeks of misogyny when I know they won't understand?

chris

best opinion ive seen ngl

Jarren Jenkins

There is no "benefit" with the Hive though? They don't do anything with the combined intelligence of the world EXCEPT find a way to turn those immune. They don't make new tv shows. They don't make NOTHING. Yeah, there are no wars. The entire world is "united" but it is fake. That's why they are all going to die in 10 years because they don't do anything to sustain themselves other than propagate the virus to other habitable worlds. Don't miss the forest for the trees.

hyakimaru dono

He didn't kill anyone though... he warned them beforehand

Jojo_avena

Wow they somehow made me hate the main character in the beginning of the episode. Even if she locked in again its just like scary how little time they need to almost convince or convert you. But all in all dope first season

XORA NICO

Why I thought episode 7 was the finale? 😫😫 at least I got back to back reacts 🤣. I stand with YaBoyRoshi. I DO NOT want to be complicit or complaint with the hive. What Pepe Lèpervert was doing was completely different than what Carol did. His was physical based. Hers was emotional.

Offw0rlder

I remember you 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Ekko08

I get how you can see that, but for me I see the world peace as a benefit. Seeing people being attacked because they're a different, race, religion, sex, or whatever. Having that be "fixed" with the hive is a benefit to me plus the no wars. Yes, it's not by will and is fake but it's something Now, with them not being able to pick an apple from a tree I find that ridiculous. If they were able to do that, that 10 years would go up as they're trying to maintain resources and already found an alternative food source for them

Sam

i can see Lupa waking up out of pure will seeing some weirdo is ucking some hivussy in weirdoland

Patsakorn Pariyapranee

But this might be crazy, they won’t and earth is doomed, if all of them is converted.

Phroug

I feel like everyone has a super extreme view on the Carol smashing hivussy situation and a super extreme view on ol' boy smashing hivussy. I don't look it as Carol being taken advantage of while he's taking advantage of the Hive, I look at it as BOTH of them being taken advantage of. The hive is the one in control here, giving you everything you want to manipulate you into handing over your body. The dude's needs were just way easier to meet than Carol's

Adio Sebastian

Off the bat, that poor girl is dead, at least as an individual, her consciousness is in stasis. But I don't blame her for "giving up"; she was young and the lure of community within the hive must've sounded enticing - if you didn't appreciate that "you" wouldn't exist to appreciate its supposed bliss. I don't blame Carol for deluding herself for a while either, I doubt that I would've rationalised the situation any better, I have zero scientific or engineering skills, I'm not going to find the cure. So, I either get comfortable in the lie for the next 10 years that the hive has left or "I check out" and join the hive sooner or later. Both options are bleak with a clear head to ponder them. I noted before that I don't have Manousos' expertise or methodology; I'm not going to experiment on drones, not only because I don't have it in me to cause physical deaths but I also wouldn't want to be ostracised by the hive either... I don't think I could truly survive on my own for the rest of my days, let alone 40 of them. Yet with the plot, I imagine Manousos is onto something and with Carol's help will devise a solution that uses soundwaves and word recognition to gradually restore everyone. As Sheera said though; it'll be interesting if the cure is reversable by being exposed to the virus again, or if it'll build an immunity in the host. We'll see in season 2.

Adwoa Osei

He warned them, did you not watch that part??!

GrandNubian

how dare you view men as victims on par with women? /s

Raider

36:11 lmaooo

Kale

Lalo being the voice on the phone for Manousos and Howard being the voice on the phone for carol is such a banger of an idea Vince

catfootprints

As a Hispanic person Hispanic parents do that snapping thing all the time lol, and they don’t mean to be rude or annoying, it’s just to grab your attention, and sometimes as a little tic to help them remember what they were about to say.

Kylian

Carol gon need alot more bombs if she's tryna take out the whole world Someone needs to start learning Biochemistry They need to abduct a couple for experiments Hive should win in the end no way they blow a 7 billion to 2 lead Amazing show Apple TV got an HBO level series excited for the next seasons

Sasha

Yo that first conversation with Carol and Manousos almost blew me cause what Carol...

Sasha

Carol really freaked me out this episode. I understand why it happened but ew I'm trying not to hate her LOOOL LOCK IN

Sasha

I genuinely don't get how anyone can be on the hive's side

France

honestly just need enough bombs too offset Earth's ecosystem. Everything else would suffer like dominoes falling.

lordjaggi

pum pum had Carol in a chokehold.

Davon Shine

You guys need to check out invasion on Apple TV!

Ace

Carol is a hypocrite, the hive is taking advantage of everyone who’s not connected, they know how to butter them all up and Carol is aware that Zosia’s will is not her own but she was still taking advantage of her body and the Hives will to please her. Her breaking point was just further than the others because her wife died. But if her wife didn’t die in the beginning she would’ve been like others.

Wsgyan

My goodness carol is a fucking idiot I’m sorry bruh

Rocky

Yesss, or like whistle from across the room

Kami

He said and i quote "if they cant be fixed they are ALL better off dead" hes religious and thinks all their souls are being stolen. Hes 100% willing to end them all.

Esteban

Carol and the other guy yall are salty about are the same , it just took longer because of their morals, and because she can’t have that anymore cuz the eggs now she wants to save the world

Nathan Hale

Rapes is rape. Whether it happens in 8 hrs or 60 days. But great cope Roshi.

Nathan Hale

Sheera, Koumba doesn't treat them like objects. I don't even know where you got that idea. He even found out Zosia's name before Carol did. He actually loves them as an entity as shown in episode 7. I would argue that Carol treats them like objects.

Chris De Kuristof

careful they will call you a weirdo and a hive apologist cause the hive threw themselves at carol rather than the other way around even though carol clearly wanted that to happen

Chris De Kuristof

carol gives in to the hivussy and it's "sad" she missed that connection but the other dude is just a weirdo cause his needs were met earlier than hers, yeah ight, explain it that way to Z when she wakes up knowing she got tongue flicked by carol

Cho

So glad to watch people who has the right opinion about this show, bless y’all and eff the weirdos

Kaya

Some folks gotta understand prior to any of this Carol was a troubled individual. If you have struggled with depression on any level you have to understand. She is mentally ill. She is traumatized. She was sent to conversion camp she did heroin to cope with whatever she had going on sophomore year she is TROUBLED. Now factor in an alien invasion. Factor in your one source of love and support that truly meant something to you, above all, above the love of your fans, above money: your wife. She’s dead! U had to witness it! And now everybody in the world is one single entity/hive mind. They know everything your wife knew. They’re invasive and persistent and don’t even have the ability to respect privacy bcuz they just in everybodies head automatically right. Now if u haven’t killed ur self yet LOL factor in that u cannot express any negative emotions towards them at all otherwise u indirectly murder millions. U find out there are others immune to whatever is happening but oh guess what they aren’t on the same page as u whatsoever. Ur the only person, to ur knowledge, in the entire world that wants to fix this. U try to find more out and it results in the evacuation of every single living being in ur city 😭 u are now alone (+ u find out evil shit like these niggas eat people). Again if u haven’t killed urself yet now think about all that time spent entirely alone. Complete and utter solitude. Social interaction is vital to thrive as a living being. At this point it’d be normal in terms of being a human to be completely emotionally weakened and easily susceptible to any form of manipulation ESPECIALLY given the fact the things manipulating u have the knowledge of every known goddamn living psychologist and brain doctor and sociology professional ever 😪😪 like Carol just makes sense to me I do not understand the hate. That time she spent alone on top of all the trauma she already endured is enough to make me personally understand why she reacted the way she did to all that happened this episode. Idk I’m just yapping fr but like when I put myself in her shoes it’s like how can u not empathize? And idky some people r making it about gender but id feel this way if she was a he it don’t matter good lord it’s human man it’s just human

Kaya

This wasn’t eloquently said but I think I get my point across like she just makes sense as a character. She wants to die! She was gonna let that firework hit her that was gonna be suicide! She’s lonely, there’s an invasion on her planet, nobody whether they r infected or not wants to be around her (until she asked for Zoisa back and they obliged), her wife is dead and she’s being emotionally manipulated on the highest level while she’s at her lowest point. Humans are weird man weird and extremely complex. There’s just a lot going on

Kaya

Also Roshi and the gang all agreed Carol had the ability to say no and should have done so but some of y’all wanna be idiots abt the whole thing. Intention and nuance between her and Koumba was what they were talking abt and they made complete sense. Every thought process for some of y’all commenting is just black and white, right or left, one narrow long road smh. Expand ur mind abeg

Ellieescozy

He does, Messing with multiple women and treating them Like Slaves, you defending this is disturbing, Roshi, Sheera and lupa dont agree with you anyway. You should stop watching their Videos tbh, Theo dont Need Fans Like you

Ellieescozy

Not the Same thing in the Show, that french guy is gross

Kingbrick

Ever since the first 1 billion people died it was never an argument.

Inroh

Give Manousous a break, those millions of people he killed are just some more human derived protein. He felt bad for them so he gave them food.

Kingbrick

yo roshi a crazy fanbase is a passionate fanbase! XD! - the show isn't hive-side - the hive know a way too bring people back they refuse to share it? that should already tell you enough about what people who became hive-linked would do if they got re-converted to humans/ I.E. SOMETHING SCARIER IS GOING ON under the surface - their is scientific experimentation THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE BY HUMANS (like bro tried to do) to figure out whats truly going on like ending a plague, thats morally correct - they already ended up killing billions of humans and forcefully kiss you and meaning yes THEY themselves started the r*pe talk TBH!!! upon the population way more than the rest of the other dude did on inappropirate/non-consensual kissing charges alone (and thats just what was shown by them) - imagine the herpes spread!!! - ultimately i aint never getting a subscription I Cant turn off myself when apparently their is an off button somewhere and malignantly hidden as well - but hey corporations have billions of consumers!

.jazbati

she Did meet Kusimayu at the english speakers meeting she was the one who said she wanted to join them to be with her family and be happy

NSP

Yes what Carol did was wrong, but Diabate and Carol are absolutely not comparable situations. Diabate spent a few hours in the crisis, and immediately recognized he could manipulate everyone. Carol on the other hand had to spend a month of mental anguish and loneliness while her set of morals were slowly eroded until eventually she got to the point where she was ready to sit there and let a firework rocket shoot her in the face if it meant she could end her suffering. It was only **after** her mind had hit rock bottom that she was finally willing to compromise her morals in order to get her sanity back, even if it was all an illusion. And once she let herself start getting tricked, then it was a slippery slope into her legitimately believing that Zosia was an individual (note how throughout the last episode, there were several moments where she legitimately felt Zosia was different, and that Zosia treated/loved her differently from the other 12). Even her parting words with Zosia, saying that if their love was real that Zosia wouldn't allow it. Carol fully believed Zosia was special by the end, where as Diabate has never once been tricked into thinking they are anything more than a hive mind. That is the difference between them.

Dasypodidae

Do you think the virus will kill of 99% of the population or a 100% of the population? That's an important distinction for whether or not to completely dismiss any arguments in favor of the virus.