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Tier 3: Black Widow and The Thunderbolts double feature (Patreon)

Published:
2025-07-11 16:41:30
Imported:
2026-06

Videos

Content

A few notes:

1) If you want to skip the Black Widow reaction, it ends around the 90 minute mark. (I have to put both reactions in one video because I'm also selling this double feature and you can't have two embedded videos in one post)

2) This counts as the regular Tier 3 movie of the month and an extra makeup movie for delayed movies of the past. (I still haven't been able to download Sinners and my two attempts so far to screen record it have been abject failures.)

Files

BWthunPat

Comments

Erik Christensen

glad you enjoyed thunderbolts. maybe my trailer request piqued your interest

Alice Flagg

The woman that USAgent/John Walker shot in the face was Antonia Dreykov/Taskmaster (played by Olga Kurylenko), one of the main antagonists in the Back Widow movie that you just saw. Originally the director for the Thunderbolts had an emotional subplot with Taskmaster but due to studio interference he was forced to cut that out of the movie. Don't know how far he got in development before that was cut, that may have been during the writing of the movie and not necessarily sometime into shooting the film. The reason why Taskmaster may have been cut was probably due to the reception of the character from the Black Widow movie. There was kind of an Iron Man 3/ Mandarin situation where the Taskmaster that we saw in the movie barely resembled the character outside of just the basic look and the powers. In the comics the character had a different identity, personality and backstory. Her character kind of reminds me of Slipknot from David Ayer's Suicide Squad (2016) where he wasn't as porminantly featured in the marketing and people guessed that he'd die early on in teh movie which tunred out to be the case. A lot of people correctly assumed the taskmaster would meet a similar fate in the Thunderbolts since her character didn't seem to interact with the other characters in the trailers. There were scenes where it was clear that Taskmaster was artificially inserted in the trailers to throw off the audience such as when the Thunderbolts confronted Valentina Allegra de Fontaine in Stark/Avengers tower.

ShadowDog Productions

Yeah my Godson told me about this after the fact. I'm kinda annoyed with myself for not clocking who she was because this was a very irritating decision I would have had a lot to say about during a reaction. What a waste of a good character. My Godson said the reason was the studio didn't like how many Black Widow characters had a ton of screen time in this movie so one of the three had to go and she was the obvious choice. Screw that, that reason sucks too. Fortunately they still ended up with a great movie

Alice Flagg

There was actually a huge mystery about who owned Avenger's tower since Spider-Man: Homecoming. Originally people thought that Reed Richards had bought the tower after the events of Age of Ultron and that tower would become the MCU's version of the Baxter Building since its implied that the avengers had moved out of the building after that had fought Ultron in the tower earlier in the movie and Spider-Man: Homecoming had confirmed that the tower had been sold. Another theory was that Norman Osborne/Goblin had bought the tower and that the MCU was going to do their own version of the Dark Reign event. In the comics there was an event/era of marvel comics known as Dark Reign where Norman Osbone had become the director of HAMMER (Basically a more villainous version of SHIELD) after Norman had killed the Skrull Queen during the Secret Invasion storyline. During his tenure as director of HAMMER he took control over the Avengers, replacing them with his own team of villains posing as heroes (Dark Avengers). At that point in the comics the avengers were fractured after the Avengers disassembled (2003) storyline where Scarlet Witch had massacred half the Avengers which resulted in half of the remaining members going underground and the other half working for the government. In the Thunderbolts there was a similar theory where this movie would be an origin story for the dark reign storyline where instead of Norman Osborn it would be Valentina Allegra de Fontaine who'd bought the tower and he was going to create her version of the Dark Avengers with the Thunderbolts team. That theory mostly panned out in the movie with the major exception being that they're the New Avengers instead of the Dark Avengers. Although it seems unlikely that they'll do the Dark Reign storyline since they're adapting the Secret Wars (2015) event from the comics which means they'll either use that as a soft reboot for the MCU or the events would be so impactful that they'd make people forget about the new avengers altogether. Similar storylines in the MCU have had a similar fate such as the fall of SHIELD in Winter Soldier practically being forgotten and the Sokovia Accords from Captain America: Civil War having no effect on characters in other films and being completely forgotten after the events of Infinity War.

ShadowDog Productions

I realized recently that in two years we'll be at the 20th anniversary of the MCU. That effectively means two things. 1) I feel really old. 2) its about time for the kind of "soft reboot" you're talking about

Alice Flagg

I really wish you'd produced a full reaction for bot films as well as an edited considering there was alot of cut content in these reaction vids. I didn't dawn on me that you'd cut out the scene with Yelena and the doctor at the start of the film until I watched your Youtube short.

Alice Flagg

The only canges I see Secret Wars making is integrating of the new Fantastic Four, a new version of T'Challa if the leaked concept art is any indication and the inclusion X-Men without having to explain where they were. Outside of that I don't see them doing anything like aging down or resurrecting characters like Iron Man and Captain America considering that they're not exactly timeless like Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman. And they already have replacements such as Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes for Captain America and War Machine and Ironheart for Iron Man.

ShadowDog Productions

Something had to go, it was already 14 gigs as it was and I only get 20 a week. As for doing full reactions along side something like this, that's not really practical right now. I have begun saving up for a new computer though. A second computer will be a massive game changer allowing me to do all sorts of things I've been waiting to do. One of those would be adjacent full reactions to edited movies. Also, I don't think the cut stuff was very interesting which is why it got cut. For instance, in the doctor scene you mentioned, I talked about how Yelena was annoying me again the way she did in Hawkeye and the way she didn't do in the Black Widow movie. But then, after the doctor scene, she never annoyed me again so that was pointless. So you're not really missing anything.

Alice Flagg

The reason that they killed Taskmaster was much more complicated than "having too many characters from one film considering that de Fontaine, John Walker and Bucky Barnes had all originated from Falcon and Winter soldier and none of those characters had to die After the WGA strikes Schreier and the creatives were able to reexamine the script. They determined that there was no sense of "tension and unpredictability", and the film felt "bloodless" when there should be the tension of not knowing who would survive, given who these characters are. To solve this, they decided to rework Taskmaster's involvement in the film, killing the character "early and dry" in the film to have her death "resonate" and inform the fates of the other characters throughout the rest of the film. Having the death occur later in the film was also discussed, but Schreier said the sadness from it would "hang over" the rest of the film and distract from the intended storyline of forming a strong bond between Belova and Bob. In Pearson's original draft, Taskmaster survived until the end and had a subplot where she bonded with Ghost, as well as a recurring joke where she kept forgetting she had made friends with the other characters and was still trying to assassinate Walker because of her memory loss. Pearson understood why the decision was made to kill Taskmaster, also believing the memory loss assassination joke drifted too close to Bob's character arc as he also was dealing with memory loss. Before Sentry was added to the film, Walker was intended to be the main antagonist, with de Fontaine manipulating him into believing his super soldier serum was wearing off and giving him pills as a solution, making him into a "time bomb" that made him more unlikable and "the monster". Pearson said this version "didn't ever totally work", and Walker's actions felt too similar to the plot line of Thaddeus Ross becoming the Red Hulk in the MCU film Captain America: Brave New World (2025); Pearson had considered Red Hulk for the film's villain early in the process, which Marvel Studios declined because of their intended plans for Brave New World. Looking for a new antagonist that would not easily be beatable in a fight, Pearson remembered reading the Sentry miniseries years prior and felt Sentry and his alter ego the Void would work for "heroic ambition and self-esteem versus depression and self-loathing and loneliness and isolation"; he called Sentry "the entire journey for our heroes rolled into one entity" and his inclusion helped make the story cohesive. Pearson was glad he was able to incorporate many elements of the character's comics backstory to fit into the MCU. Said backstory, consisting of Sentry erasing himself from the world's memories to stop the Void, was avoided because it was similar to the plot of No Way Home, in which Peter Parker / Spider-Man also has himself erased from memory. Paul Jenkins, co-creator of Sentry, discussed the character with the creatives, with Schreier calling Sentry and the work Jenkins did with the character "a parable for mental health". Schreier explained that Lee felt mental health discussion was "not niche anymore" and it allowed them to "tell a story about that internality and still have a lot of comedy and action for something that feels big and universal".

ShadowDog Productions

That's a pretty valid reason actually. It raised the stakes for people who remembered who she was and gave the film a tone from that point forward that it needed. To accomplish this it has to be a character from a previous movie.

Alice Flagg

Pretty sure Dexter already has a Max account.

ShadowDog Productions

Oh I've been trying. I've already tried twice to screen record it. I'll try again on Tuesday when I leave the house. It's like the movie is cursed. Screen Record Teen Titans? NO PROBLEM. Try to Screen Record Sinners? *horror movie woman screaming*

Alice Flagg

I stand corrected, Ghost was the one who shot Taskmaster in the face, not US Agent. That actually mkaes sense since Ghost is the only one with powers that Taskmaster can't mimic. It's also morbidly comical when you consider that they were supposed to be friends in a previous draft of the script.