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Brainstorming on the Weekend (Patreon)

Published:
2025-05-03 14:06:34
Edited:
2025-05-03 14:06:52
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

Content

#1: I need to figure out now what happens with class evolution @ lvl 50, before it sneaks up on me in 3 floors and I'm totally unprepared.Things I want: I want the levelling to slow down after 10th floor. 3 lvls per floor, diminishing to 1 and then every other floor and so on, until we hit lvl 100.I want some kind of Class Advancement options to present themselves @ lvl 50.I'm tinkering with the idea of gaining a 3rd Primary skill as part of the package deal with the new class name and description.What else can we do for class advancement that doesn't totally break everything but represents a decent amount of power growth and the opportunity to reassess your build?Should we require a Sacrifice? Or just have it be picked based on one of the sacrifices the user has already made?#2: Above 10th Floor, we can have Miasma in the environment become more of a factor. How can we make it a consideration? Have stuff spawn out of it whole cloth? Require some kind of artifact that pushes it away so Climbers don't get cancer?

Comments

Chris

I think the new primary skill should require a sacrifice. So people can use it to add a completely new direction to their class if they want to. Probably needs to have some kind of power limiter of some kind on it. But I think the a ability to add something completely new to a build would be cool. And it sort of makes sense that at that point people/parties could use it to fill some kind of gap that they have discovered in their setups

Dawson Haviland

Maybe have the sacrifice be able to swap with one of the main sacrifices for the class or have the sacrifice upgrade one of the main class sacrifices. I also think that if you want to do class advancement have the class be adapted to the climber.

Don

For class advancement maybe allow the ability of multiclassing to slow the leveling and do it kinda DND way in that it's basically the bare minimum of another class since will was talking about wishing he had cantrips could be a way to increase power laterally by splashing a bit of nuker or fighter or whatever in the mix also gives something to throw level ups to, but if your goin with 3rd primary could couple that in with the extra sacrifice and have that added to the overall 3 sacrifices you begin your class generation. Unless that's already what you meant by requiring a sacrifice then my bad

Chris

Also.. maybe if they can use the same sacrifices as before if they don't want to add anything completely new. Maybe make that option potentially more powerful at the cost of versatility

Dawson Haviland

For the miasma it would be cool if like monsters came out of the miasma whenever and wherever the miasma is.

Uroš

I think lvl 50 should let you "make up" for a past poor sacrifice. It's been mentioned multiple times that other people only have 2 or 3 upgrade slots for their main abilities and while it is possible to improve it, it's rare. So why not have lvl 50 require a sacrifice related to the originally used sacrifice, just higher quality, allowing the person to upgrade one of their primary abilities. Another thing that could be possible is to pivot the build, again requireing a sacrifice. Not a completely new direction, but perhaps a bit of course correction as the person realized more what they want over the past 50 levels.

ReadingObsessed

Hmmm. I'd think about it from the direction of the strongest lords. Do they need more versatility? Covering a weakness? A new ability generated from the current ones?

SunderGoldmane

You could make class advancement at level 50 be tied into aligning with the tower. What would a class advancement look like if the tower was trying to hire a specialist for its own goals? Maybe class advancement becomes more like an active dedication/contract to the tower in a way that is picked and the tower in return front loads alot of the cost needed to rework a dedicant’s (person who dedicates? Vocab?) class to a more tailored role. This would require more thinking about the tower and its goals but in general it could be specializations like monster hunting, bussing, raid boss prevention/elimination, economy boosting the floors below, infrastructure creation/upkeep. It can be combat or noncombat. It can be a front line pushing sort of specialization or a supportive role of maintenance on existing status quo. You could also showcase that the floors after like floor 20 are where the tower has almost no civilization supporting infrastructure and it offer level 50 rework as incentive to dedication for pushing civilization higher up the tower? Tl;dr make level 50 an incentive bonus offered by the tower in exchange for offering the tower a dedicated service. The tower front loads the class upgrade and the dedicant needs to keep their end of the deal to not be penalized.

Arnon Parenti

I suggest having something that separates top climbers from the chaff, like a new sense for treasure/danger related directly to each class making them unique, and the reason the church calls their lvl 50s saints. It should be strictly utility but with a good application can become combative, every lvl 50 is fighting others by assuming they know what this particular piece of the build is. The Wyrd can Feel Pain, The Witch can Feel Pestilence, etc.. It let's them hone their attacks against other climbers by simply knowing how the victims are vulnerable to their build. Having said all that.. William OH can Feel Resources. Everyone assumes he can feel their relics because his main attack so far was stealing them. But our Boi goes way beyond that and he feels your Miasma, he knows your charge he intimately knows your Relics, he particularly sees your Skills before they manifest, you can't fight the future, and William OH has already been there and come back.

SunderGoldmane

Some name ideas -Bounty hunter(pvp, tower sanctioned climber hunts) -Terraformer -Gardener -Bus driver -Caravan Guardian(like a real caravan guard class supported by the tower as a level 50 class advancement and not just a “guard” Mapper (dedicates to bringing maps of new areas to civilization and society, or updates existing ones) -Sapper (traps existing monster areas in civilized areas or pushes past front line and traps inside monster infested floors)

LucasTheLost

Maybe the miasma is constantly fluctuating meaning you have to force it into stability in order to acclimate properly. Otherwise you constantly have borderline miasma sickness like you would from changing floors too fast.

SunderGoldmane

You could call the level 50 class asignment a “job”. So when climbers level up and get close to 50 it can be a common question and casual harassment to ask when they are going to get a job? Or if they’ve started looking for a job?

Arnon Parenti

Then at some point growing Phantom Hand to Steal Miasma, lowering other's levels, stats, breaking Relics, stealing and storing someone's skill and putting it direct in Sourdough William OH will break you, and when he makes you again you will be stronger, faster see colors that were not there before and so deep in his debt clawing your way back from hell will be the short part of the trip.

Ryan Naquin

Is miasma resistance not connected to level? If you only get one level every other floor then you wont have increased resistance to the higher miasma if you didnt get a level on the previous floor. Could be a design flaw of the tower, like it was never intended ty o get so tall. Will has to find a way to mitigate the damage of higher miasma till everyone can get their next level.

CoveringStorm

Maybe incorporate miasma into the weather, like the water cycle there could be a miasma cycle going on in the background, occasional miasma storms could manifest. Miasma eruptions where pressure builds (lots of monster death maybe) Miasma frontal systems that bring waves of monsters Wear on relics from lower floors or lower quality from exposure. Non relics Turing into monsters, low level climbers and other life turing into monsters 👀. Food even lol. Miasma meteorologist, a civilian class evolution of a meteorologist class that can predict or even modify how the miasma behaves. Or some other civilian type class that exists purely to deal with whatever form environmental miasma danger comes in.

bookwurm290

Miasma feels like it should get more targeted and purposeful as you get higher, the miasma starts actively trying to counter you, which is why Lord’s stop eventually. Wyrd ran into an environment that was too hostile without anything actively damaging him, Rotwitch ran into someplace without anything living. The monsters that attack you are tailored for your weakness, and just keeps escalating until you give up.

Ed Je

Lvl 50 could give class options based on relic usage instead of raw sacrifices which integrate your current relics into your build to a degree.

Ethan B.

I think making it so you have 2 options at lv 50 would be good, you can either choose to specialize or choose to add versatility to the class. On one hand with an aligning sacrifice you could make a qualitative upgrade to your primary or even secondary skill making it not only be stronger as it normally would but also having the tower give you options on what direction you would like it to specialize. On the other hand you could add an entire new ability to your build that isn't quite a primary but also isn't as weak as a tertiary, less upgrade slots then if it had been part of your original options but giving your class much more versatility or making up for a discovered weakness, however you would have to have this sacrifice come from an important source like a mutated monster or raid boss signaling that this is a more rare and harder to find feature of the tower maybe explaining why it wasn't talked about before.

Emily Gurnavage

Level 50 ideas first: - increases (idk what they get atm) the stat points they get every level? Either the free ones or the sacrifice forced ones. This way they keep growing strong enough to handle the higher floors even as the leveling slows down. - maybe a hard choice tossed in? Like the option to reset all the "free" stat points and reuse them (for those who messed up or are majorly unhappy with their build) ORRRRR the option to remove a sacrifice added to a skill? No replacement given. Like Will could remove that metal slime he just added to his hand for example. Im sure Loth would like that. And others. Im sure many had to settle at lower floors and could now augment a skill with a better sacrifice. - Some sort of qualitative body change due to the (compared to the bottom) ridiculous miasma accumulation in their bodies? Like now every stat point is effectively 20% stronger? Idk if youd want a sudden burst though. Itd even out later, but later is later. - maybe the sacrifice removal thing but it also requires you to sacrifice a higher tier sacrifice in order to remove the one you want gone? Level 50 changes are a tough one to think of stuff that hasn't been done, will fit the story, and wont be too OP. . Miasma ideas next: - I like the cancer bit and it has me imagining some "Metro series" style floors or sections. Where they need masks, sealed clothes, sealed food/water/supplies, and need to srt up camps with some sort of short-range cleansing artifact that keeps like a small camps worth of space safe but it cant be moved while turned on. So they can unseal gear and drink water and such at camps but on the road everyone/thing stays sealed unless everyone stops and turns on the cleanser. Obviously combat is still a thing, so gear will be ripped and torn. They buy or make (Loths bugs special silk?) the sealed gear n its harder to rip or something idk. Rips wouldn't be instant death, especially for stronger climbers or with the right stats, but itd do bad things quickly and get worse from there. Maybe feelin woozy and iffy in just a handful of seconds? Then hallucinations within like just a minute or two of exposure? Light bleeding from pores begins after 5? Symptoms progress until death or resting and healing in a safe zone/cleanser zone while your body processes the miasma. - I dunno about things spawning wholecloth, that kinda feels against the vibe but then again the kaijus do that dont they? Hm. The basic idea of them spawning right there though has me thinking of the fog hags from the Witcher 3. So miasma hags/monsters that can be made of miasma at will and then recondense at will. They would rapidly flit around, claws suddenly solidifying right in your face, then vanishing again. Minor miasma manipulation, ex Mason blows it away to clear a space and the hags quickly draw it back in only giving a brief visual. If theres no miasma around like that and they werent able to move with it in time, theyd unwillingly solidify in that space. - Liquid miasma in reaaaaally concentrated spots? Maybe in some sort of ancient human ruin so its explainable with magic/tech concentrating the miasma in the area? Like acid sort of, but also worse. No idea what else to do with it. Raid boss hiding in it? Artifact they can sense is down there and desperately want? - Miasma snakes? Thin coils of the miasma itself that forms when too much is in the air. They slither around in the air and seem kinda like snakes but really theres no body, just the miasma. Can't be hurt, can't be killed, not even alive. Just a natural phenomenon like rain or lightning. Dispersing them gets rid of that one, but more will keep forming over time while in miasma dense areas. Nothing to be gained from them, just a nuisance. - Miasma rain on higher floors? . I gotta make some coffee now, ill be back if I think of more =) - ooh, the metro miasma floor could be a cave tunnels floor. Don't think we have had a cave or tunnel floor yet. No natural light, full of deadly miasma, monsters, rare ores in the walls, one central Haven of miners barely surviving.

The Arcane Emperor

Miasma in the environment could express itself by slowely breaking the laws of physik. I mean things like flying islands and sky river that flow through the air. For monsters it could be even more unatural forms. Elementals ( such as cloud elementals/ at higher floors perhaps even space or gravity elementals) or more draconic monsters ( wyvern, wyrm, lindwurm and drakes for example). Or it could also be treants, manticores or hellhounds, more swarm type monsters ( ants, termites etc.), a floor controlled by a hive mind species of monsters. Also tentacle monsters or brain eaters with psych/eidolon abilities( there could be a future sacrifice for Will). Another thing I can think of are humans/climbers that get overtaken by miasma and transform into monsters because of it. They could keep part of their intelligence and would make for more cunning enemies. Lastly the old but proven vampires, werwolves and undead like zombies or liches( up to elder lich or so on higher floors).

dragonsFire

Note: These suggestions are made with only knowledge from what is posted publicly on royal road. I am reading on royal road to match with a friend while I support here when I can. #1 For the advancement at level 50 I think some care has to be taken because Will has fought and interacted with a few level 50+ characters so far and this is not something that has ever come up. The option to select and consume one ability into another in return for a effect based on the ability consumed could be an option with both strong upsides and down sides. It also covers lack of info on the topic because such a thing would be a traumatic loss of an ability - a key part of the climbers experience - and they might not want to think on it ever again, let alone discuss it. #2 Miasma can be a factor with "Miasma Fronts" (will probably need a better name): Quick shifts in Miasma density like weather fronts causing near instantaneous quick spikes and drops in the density (2-3 floors worth) of Miasma and inflicting Miasma sickness until the party can find a way to deal with mitigate it. It can start with Loth mitigating it at the cost of some of her bugs, weakening her until the party finds another way to deal with the "Miasma Fronts". They will be better off than most parties who have to get their first relics (or other ways) to deal with it while dealing with the fronts and whatever other issues they bring. > Things I want: I want the leveling to slow down after 10th floor. 3 lvls per floor, diminishing to 1 and then every other floor and so on, until we hit lvl 100. You can also have the party level slightly more in the higher density Miasma but this is higher risk and is only an extra level or so. Its so dangerous its just not worth it... at least until it is like pushing to lvl 50 a floor early or knowledge that the next floor will SUCK and they want to move through it as fast as possible.

Ethan B.

As far as miasma being an environmental factor what if when climbers don't go through an area enough it would increase monster spawn rates and strength and if long enough even raid bosses, acting like mini key sites with the tower possibly even giving side quests to take care of them.

McIntosh Ewell

Considering higher levels of miasma are what cause normal creatures to become monsters, it might be interesting to have some physiological/psychological effects manifest on folks unless they have a means of healing/dispelling it. Climbers waking up with horns, tentacles, tails, extra eyes, wings, a craving for blood or flesh. That kinda thing. As for the advancement option, I think Climbers should be presented with a choice to focus more narrowly on one of their primaries, or broaden their options with another primary (maybe they can raise a secondary or tertiary to that level) Tradeoffs for the first is accelerated growth in the single main, decreased growth in the others. For the other, growth remains the same, so you have to split resources 3 ways instead of two.

austin kutz

Optional sacrifice, with 3 total options. 1. No sacrifice, your new primary is the same quality as the average of your others. This choice confirms your path and essentially locks it down to your current one. 2. You use a sacrifice and it adds a primary based on it without regard to your current primaries. This can change your path a bit, depending on what you use. 3. You use a sacrifice but it just improves the quality of the primary based on option 1.

Mariposa

Maybe the miasma can cause creatures to mutate? So above certain floors they can get unique sacrifices. And maybe to evolve their class they need to have 3 mutated sacrifices like they did for their first class?

Trathnonen

Hmm...as far as class advancement goes, maybe there's a secondary triad of sacrifices offered and a trial like there was for the initial class selection. Since Will gave up his left hand, maybe he can offer the rest of the arm for that. Or, class advancement locks your previous primary, secondary, and tertiary skills, forcing you to maximize them before the advancement, then provides a new set of primary skills, with a secondary skill at 55, with a tertiary later at 60, to slow the creep but put clear gains at these difficult to achieve thresholds. The old paladin was 65, so having two sets of primary, secondary, and tertiary skills, with one of them completely maxed, seems like a pretty big deal. For miasma, I vote for transhumanism. The high level climbers don't come down because they don't have any reason to, they don't have enough in common with the people outside the tower to even associate any longer. Also, it would make sense that, in addition to the acclimation period, the reason high level climbers don't descend is that they can't, their bodies are too reliant on the high miasma to survive, kind of how it worked for Chrysalis and the monsters needing a certain mana density to survive and only specific times when lower regions of the tower can have that kind of density (this big ending that's approaching).

Nicolas Symeou

Miasma may have fluctuations, as others have recommended, but those affect abilities, needing climbers to time their abilities with the fluctuations to empower (or twist them in random ways) them, or risk the ability weakening, fizzling or backfiring

Joshua Ellinger

It feels like lvl 50 is where you need to change the story arc from focusing on our racing the other climbers and becoming a lord into the overall nature of the tower and beating all the levels.

Melody Haren Anderson

I'm thinking it requires both a sacrifice and some sort of personal nature "focus", so every class 50+ is always perfectly unique because no one will form the exact same... and trying will actually hamper you. On Miasma, my thought is unnatural storms. Bone rain, as purple-black lightning fills the sky as one example. Gold (slimes) rain, and so on. Things freaky, but if prepared, can really pay your way. It'd explain why people who reach the upper floors basically have infinite wealth hack to the point that it doesn't matter, because if you're lucky, you WILL find something valuable you can send down.

Pseudo

Here me out: Sacrificing one of your abilities for class advancement. Yep. That’s it. Do what you will with that idea.

Pseudo

If that doesn’t scream sacrifice, I don’t know what will.

JK Atula

Maybe some kind of Soul-Binding? Maybe Will's ability to sacrifice equipment is a little less unique, there's a standard method for ensuring you always have the effect of one piece of kit? Maybe for Miasma you have an elemental type deal, where with enough infection anything could start generating more of itself, with violent tendencies. Hair Clippings clumping into golems, having to bargain with old lakes for drinking water, etc

Jk

I like the idea of gaining a guaranteed meta-ability, that affects all the other abilities the climber has. Or a permanent boost to all future sacrifices to put them more in line with someone’s build

RedInkQuill

Probably up the regen rate the higher the climbers go because of the miasma density.

JACOB HEBERT

I think that lvl 50 shouldn't only be input->output, but become a kind of bottleneck that must be overcome to progress. Maybe the Tower gives a special trial they need to pass, and different passing grades affect the outcome? That's easy to integrate with other ideas I think.

Robert Nolan

I like the idea of a new primary, but rather than it being based on a sacrifice(or just a sacrifice), have them choose a Primary Stat and have it partially based on that stat and how they have been applying it. This way they can lean into whichever way they want there build to go. For example if Will chose Resistance he might get a skill that foundationally helps him survive in even harsher environment, if he chose Focus he might get a skill that helps him process more information and multitask. For the miasma issue, I like the idea that it fluxuates more. Maybe have waves of dense miasma come through and mutate things that aren't strong enough to resist. Start out with is only effecting mundain objects, but as the floors get higher it eventually it effects weaker artifacts and mudane creatures until eventually lower level climbers are at risk. Maybe some waves are strong enough to effect level appropriate climbers.

JACOB HEBERT

And having excess Miasma in the environment seems to mean mutating the land and environment itself (further). Like, maybe Miasma permeates a land feature and generates a "monster made from land (i.e., a Dungeon)," rather than just throwing monsters around. The number of dungeons, their size and scope (fixed or variable?), the idea of different Dungeons drawing settlers by having different "specialities" and acting like hostile natural resources (like, a Mountain Dungeon that has ore inside, or a River Dungeon that has fish/water/river plants). It wouldn't need to be "normal" land either, and would possibly make it so that rather than floors having one single biome, they become more fleshed out the higher you go?

Federico

#1 A classic would be a fight against a copy of yourself made of miasma. #2 Maybe the reality of floors could gradually become more fluid and adaptable to the clibers in it, offering unique and unpredictable challenges.

God

For the first one, I think there should be a new primary based on a new sacrifice. I think this will help keep other charaters (who had bad initial sacrifices) relavent on the higher floors. It also explains how high level climbers can exist, since they would fill out their upgrade slots at some point (if they picked bad sacrifices).

Chris Gast

Level 50 options should be influenced by the sacrifices made in the past. Evolution is based on the foundation that came before, after all. An option for the level 50 evolution could be the opportunity to swap the tier of abilities. To switch a secondary and a primary, as an example. In case someone decided their path relied more on an ability they had previously undervalued. One of the gains would be that, although they might lose something from their old primary, their new one could be tailored to more closely match their goals for it with new sacrifices. Miasma - At higher levels, some of the monsters should have great influence over the surrounding miasma, creating domain effects, giving them a home field advantage. Some would use it to create reinforcements, some would use it to create dangerous local effects or alter the terrain. At the highest levels, fighting a monster with power over the local miasma might naturally create a mini-dungeon, a pocket world based on that monsters control and use of the miasmic domain. This would be especially appropriate with the apparent link between Ouroboros, tower, and monsters. Powerful monsters would be mini-ouroboros descendants. Anyway, good luck however it turns out.

Notcreepycreeper

I don't like miasma that requires protective equipment. Instead I think it should just get progressively more difficult to ascend/descend fast. And require a certain level to even survive on a floor.

Notcreepycreeper

I also think you should consider something special for Wll's level 50 OR level 100 evolution - since he is part tower monster he should be offered/forced to have a racial transformation, making him more of the tower. Preferably something noticable that he can't immediately turn on/off to look human - but something he can learn to control when he's much more powerful, just like the raid boss snake

Josh Smith

For the level 50 option: Maybe a way to retroactively increase Stat growth? This should require an appropriate sacrifice. Miasma: Miasma storms. Low visibility, lots of noise, spontaneous spawning of monsters with Low levels (relative to floor). Plus, transforming mundane objects into moderate level monsters.

Notcreepycreeper

Yeah, it already feels like we've mostly run out of PvP issues. I expect the paladin problem to be sorted by level 50, unless he becomes some sort of parallel climber. At that point I want to know more about the societies in the tower and politics there in - I can't really about 50 more floors of Will just smashing monsters and maintaining his caravan no matter how entertaining the fights

Quazzy

Ordinary climbers have three class seeds. Post-evolution classes have four.

Quazzy

That impacts stat growth, nabs you an extra primary, and maybe even retroactively impacts stat growth and/or abilities. It's a meta-change that impacts everything else going forwards because it changes the class, is powerful, and doesn't turn everything on its head.

Quazzy

A macguffin that wards off cancer could be interesting ordinarily, but it would make things rather boring with Will. So, instead of cancer, I propose that high miasma concentrations * mutate and empower* climbers who are introduced to it slowly enough to survive it. That way, it's not just a matter of Will yoinking ppl's macguffins and running away while they get cancer. Mutations have drawbacks (esp for life expectancy), but offer a lot of power in the short term. I think it'd be a neat last hurrah option, phase 2, etc etc.

Joe ?

I think the level 50 advancement should treat the climber as if they are the sacrifice. As in, they've taken in enough miasma, that was shaped by their actions, advancements, skill evolutions, etc, that whatever determines what is gained from a sacrifice treats them as the source of the sacrifice. Maybe a third skill, and one free low level skill evolution that makes the whole build more cohesive.

Kurt A

Miasma could “infect” items, causing them to degrade if brought down floors unless properly treated

Not You

Maybe an ability based on the existing sacrifices you’ve used already? Building on the foundation that’s already there? (Though it seems counterintuitive to how the whole process works I guess) Maybe giving abilities a different aspect that scales with a different stat? As for later floors and miasma, I really like hostile environment stuff. Maybe things in the floor affect different stays than normal. Like physical damage hits acuity somehow instead of resistance kind of thing. Spawns going weird and crazy, like monsters spawning inside people who haven’t adapted to the floor yet?

Ral

The class advancement should be a stepping stone to deal with the greater miasma. The class advancement should be weakened the lower miasma in the environment. Helps with idea that lower floor lords are not as strong as higher floor lords.

Jack Armstrong

This is a great idea. I think taking it on sacrifices wouldn't be great as everything is already so based towards that, taking it from something like achievements in the tower (assuming there's an overreaching monitoring of the system for individuals) would both be good and give a LOT of wiggle room

Fleisch

I like what Quazzy said about having another sacrifice that effects stat growth. It would allow them new options for abilities as well as give many others the opportunity to not fall behind. For Will, he would just grow in strength even further. If you think the addition of another sacrifice would be too OP, then you can have them switch one out for another. This would allow those to get a better sacrifice without losing the old abilities, to get more stats from there on out, and to have different options that can compliment their main build. Another addition would be to either give back upgrade options that have already been used or to increase the quality of each sacrifice which would ultimately give each ability more upgrade options. This one is kind of boring but it could help add more to their build. In terms of miasma, I don't like the idea of needing to push the Miasma away because it is dangerous. What could be interesting is if when they begin climbing higher than floor 10, they cannot go down to the lower floors and slowly but surely, those lower floors keep climbing up while they begin to climb up. It is as if the climbers become one with the miasma around them and can no longer live without it. Another idea for miasma would be that it can't mutate your physical body but it can mutate your abilities. The mutation is in accord with how you act upon the upper levels. If you use your Phantom Hand to shoot Cannon balls, maybe it begins to look different or simply using it for different aspects becomes harder. Another another idea for miasma is that instead of mutating you into some beastlike thing, it makes you one with your primary abilities. This would effect your physical look. Some characters might begin looking funky but that would also only start happening once they get to level 60 or 70.

CloudyBall

Maybe off-topic, but it would be nice to give the class advancement an option to fix prior mistakes? Like, if you chose a sacrifice and aren't too happy with how it came out, you could then choose another sacrifice to replace it (as long as they are related in some way). It would be nice to see the old team get a big boost by replacing older weaker relics with boss drops instead

HorizonEyes

Title System - like the poison lady Will had fought before, if she had a title of poison mistress, then wouldn't it make sense that she kills people on touch? Constitution System - the body now receives monstrous types/advantage because of the miasma. Ambient Mana (becomes a requirement/absorption becomes typed) Absorption (now past level 75 or 50 they become almost unable to return to lower floors) Mental Barrier of some sort/due to mana density Involution or Evolution choice, Involution strengthens what's already there, but Evolution allows to branch out into other primaries but requires more sacrifice. Martial Spirit System, an overall benefit to physical fighting/stats because it becomes harder to move in the higher floors which will also explain how most of the level +50 are extremely fast even without 3 movement abilities that Will has. Weapon Bonding System (to continue what Will has already done with attunement) but on a deeper/soul level? Elemental Fusion System (adjusting skills and effects with when using both primaries together merging primary/secondaries. bloodline awakening? For Will it would be more snake-goat techniques, and maybe our resident tangled would have something interesting. Contract System the Lords will likely have something like this, and we've already seen something similar with the Oilton debacle, otherwise why would they even listen to them when they are away from their forts/bases for so long? Maybe the slave system is a lot easier on the Lord which is why most of them have used that instead? Tribulation System (besides the trial, maybe have them do another at lvl 50, but now it’s a liminal space not inside the tower) Maybe have the tower send out precursors to the apocalypse that keeps getting hinted at,, which make for an extra sacrifice and fought over?

HorizonEyes

I think that system is already in place

HorizonEyes

in conjunction to what you said, you could add a system where somethings need a base miasma to even exist, like if certain things are sent down, they would loose their value, which is why those of a higher level stay up in the higher floors in the first place.

HorizonEyes

I think that's an interesting idea, but it can lead to cop outs, which are far less interesting and engaging to read. Like why didn't Will do that earlier? because he couldn't. Why was he able to do this before but cant now? because they could at the time. I like the idea, but to me, it would be better for a game rather than a book.

Béla Stewart

I think evolution should require sacrifices

Anton Helgason

I like the idea that Fleisch presented, with miasma affecting the body in a way that after climbing X many floors the body has adapted to a minimum level of miasma and cant live without it. This would also explain why William's parents haven't been visiting him as they are unable to survive in the low miasma density

Farxzay

I like the idea of floor-wide effects caused by the miasma concentration. Like, the monsters spawning fully formed could be one floor effect, while another could be something like “darkness is corrosive,” causing additional environmental hazards, and limiting or buffing certain specialized builds.

Mariposa

The miasma will cause the floor sickness conditions (the ones listed when they move floors) if it builds up in the climbers. There can be a new mechanic that helps them overcome miasma sickness.

God

I think you should make higher level monsters be able to manipulate miasma somehow, so they actually become a threat. Right now anything other than a raid boss is a joke. Not just to Will, I haven’t seen his party, or any of the other parties actually struggle, but climbing is somehow this dangerous oredeal. I think it would also explain retired climbers: there is a certain floor(s) where monsters actually become dangerous and resource management is no longer an the main issue holding parties back. This is also good for Will since it will play into his bigges asset, him being able to use his scout abilities to bypass tough fights rather than bulldoze through everything.

God

It would also justify why lords settle down rather than keep climbing.

Charlie

Imo this is one of the most reasonable options. Add a new class seed that boosts your base stat growth, modifies compatible abilities, and potentially offers a third primary. And then like others are suggesting, add a miasma dependency. The higher levelled an advanced class is, the weaker they get without miasma. It would help explain how Will was able to fight off so many advanced classes, without just appealing to his exceptionalism.

StrollingEye

It feels that Will has been growing exponentially, he needs to grow linearly from the 50th. You may be at a high base compared to the rest, but it's still linear growth. Maybe the reason for that is miasma or similar. -_---__ Getting further up the tower requires storing internal miasma like a battery so you can manage/equalise the pressure of the high miasma levels above. __---__ Once you are at the top floor, the energy the party leading lord is holding inside is fuel for whatever happens when you reach the top and tower conditions are met.

Garbonzo

part of the class evolution could potentially be replacing or adding to the three base sacrifices, it can be a way for climbers to deal with have D tier sacrifices and having shit stat progression, if it’s an additive thing then you could have the stats only be added after level fifty and not be retroactive

Hell 5pawn

Maybe a qualitative upgrade to a sacrifice they already used? Or, an option to replace a sacrifice with another.

Christian Sedlak

for evolution: upgrade one secondary skill to a primary, two tertiary skills to secondary, gain four additional tertiary "slots" on top of the two "recovered" alternatively, make a new ?additional? primary by sacrificing multiple skills something to boost improve stat growth, for just one or two stats, but scaled to current growth, so like if you're getting +4 per level, it only gives like a +1, or +1 every other level, but if you've got no growth in a selected stat it gives like a +3 or something not sure if you've mentioned how many floors the tower has, I want to say like 100? but maybe work backwards from what you want "top" level to be vs what floor give access like if lvl 50 is floor 10, and maybe lvl 75 is floor 20, lvl 85 for floor 30, lvl 90 for floor 40, lvl 95 for floor 50, and then like 1 level per 10 floors? I also like the idea of a whole additional set of sacrifices, like you're building a secondary class, with it's own set of skills and attributes, but all nerfed down, as a way to either round out or augment your primary class as for higher miasma levels, infuse everything, plants, animals, dirt, all of it gets that much more, natural fires burn hottter, wind blows harder, gravity is higher, grass doesn't bend as far, but simultaneously reduces how far sound and light carry i kinda also like the idea that the miasma is increasingly detrimental to non miasmatic materials, like if you had a regular belt it would rot away, regular steel would rust, so you functionally need more and more of everything you own to be made from floor materials

Imp

#1 - If we're capping at level 100, that's 19 primary upgrades over the course of your adventuring career - and Will caps out at level 75. I think you almost need to have a third primary for those last five upgrades. Maybe offer to have a secondary or tertiary upgraded I would suggest a trial for class advancement, which would potentially allow you to replace one of your original sacrifices. Enter the white room for the upgrade, with three alters, and swap what's on one of the alters out. Pick a new ability based on the current sacrifices. If no sacrifice swap, then just pick based on current sacrifices. Since its a class advancement and potentially replacing a sacrifice, it probably should affect stats per level going forwards if a swap was made? And might provide a qualitative upgrade for other skills - won't matter for Will, since his abilities are all based on Serpent and Uru Drake sacrifices right now, but could allow, say, Mason to get more Shield sacrifice slots. #2 - Miasma effects. I'm a fan of empowered landscapes / buildings, such that they become magical. Deserts make mirages and illusions turn into reality. Volcanoes where the lava has a mind of its own. A haunted mansion that's not haunted by a ghost, the building itself is the monster. Everything and everything has the potential to become a magical monster.

VISHV POWER

Want to point out we saw lv 63 mage(during set aquisition )vs Wiill already. Would showing someone who travelled 23 floors being beaten by will really be good ? I think directly giving primary would be wrong, open more secendory slots or power to upgrade secondary slots

Imagine Baggins

What about, instead of requiring a traditional sacrifice, absorbing a relic directly into one’s class?

CoveringStorm

Wouldnt 63 be 50 level from the first 10 floors then up 5 more for the remaining 13?

Evan Staben

I’d love to see miasma concentration become a cursed environment threat I.E. mundane objects, corpses, and less tangible objects like weather and emotions on even higher floors having a chance of absorbing miasma and animating as a monster like we’ve seen living being do. Sorta like cursed areas in dwarf fortress causing cut off limbs to animate but way more pervasive.

Charlie

This is why I reckon some kind of miasma dependency would help here - give advanced classes a debuff for being on the lowest floors/out of the tower, which gets more extreme the higher you go.

Alex

Class Advancement based on what the climber has actually done/how they’ve been using their class?

Matthew

If we look at climbing the tower like ascending to become a god, the higher floors could be a transition to godhood. So instead of a skill you could incorporate something like an aspect of godhood. An example would be “Hear no lie, tell no lie”. In that simple example, no one could lie to you, but neither could you lie to anyone. You could incorporate the environmental miasma by having the trait scale with miasma density. The more you absorb the more powerful the trait, but the more powerful the trait more miasma you need to maintain baseline. If you descend the tower you start loosing power in the trait.

David Burchfield

I like the idea of a floor that is an endless mansion, that is both haunted by undead and sapient (entire floor is aware sapient and malevolent).

David Burchfield

Some ideas. Miasma scaling (this has been forshadowed with his eternal serpent summon and some of his fights against evolved classes). Advanced stats and abilities scale with miasma concentration (So higher level is still better but you cant tap into your full power and maybe even have a debuff unless you are on a higher floor).

David Burchfield

For class evolution, I like the idea of adding another sacrifice and having the option to upgrade an existing one (has to be compatible, i.e. thematically similar and offer the same stat growth (so if your initial sacrifice is +1 acutity, +2 focus the new one could be +2 acutity and +3 focus, but not + 2 focus and +1 kinesthetics). I like the idea of getting an ability upgraded to keystone, getting a new primary ability (or upgrading a secondary to primary). ect. I also think there needs to be some mechanism to gain more upgrade slots. I wonder if a lot of the reason some people stop climbing is that they have all their upgrade slots filled so they arent really getting stronger (beyond a modest and increasingly small stat boost, in return for facing escalating dangers. So key features I am looking for are 1. Additional Sacrifice 2. Upgrades to existing abilities 3. Better Explanation for why people stop climbing explained by mechanics.

Wyatt Lewis

Do you want to end up with “ not a mimic” sticky notes cause that’s how you do that

Ral

I like the idea of making it to floor ten your class evolution is just given to you and it reflects your performance so far in the tower. If that is too much of a freebie then maybe have the tower require the climber to sumbit their own task. The ability they get is reflected by the task they choose and its "strength" is based on the difficulty. Also time to completion affects your score.

SV

Thoughts about the miasma above 10th floor. Since resurrection is possible but there is attrition on higher still sffects higher level climbers, it should be relsted to the miasma. The miasma should corrupt dead bodies and prevent them being revived or cause some detriments if they are revived. Such as softlocking their class, mutating their bodies i.e. "they came back wrong". There could be an item or skill to sanctify the bodies and prevent that corruption. Additionally bodies left out too long could rise as soulless undead, preventing any revival

Ties

Make the additional class based on previous behavior a "mutation" of the person

Lord Doge

Getting a third primary ability and the ability to enhance/alter an already existing primary (or maybe even secondary or teriary if climber does not want to change their primary) ability isn't too unbalanced (the enhancement is also in line with the saint's from the 5th floor ability improvent). Another possibility is to simply be able to add 1 artifact that will influence stat growth and skill unlock choices (on top of the 3 they have now).

Manu Sniter

until the note becomes the mimic, or is that part of the premise?

Nathaniel Ownbey

You already have a good base for class evolution Primary abilities get a significant upgrade secondary get 1 additional sacrifice to increase them. Select one additional Tertiary ability. If the climber would prefer they can get one additional Primary ability that reflects their evolved class in exchange for the secondary and tertiary benefits.

Garbonzo

You could make it so you require a sacrifice and choose to either get a new primary ability or perform a qualitative upgrade to one of your pre-existing primaries, giving the option to unlock more progression from using higher quality sacrifices

Echohunter

I like the idea of level 50 being another trial, but instead of sacrificing 3 items it's a choice of one of three options to sacrifice, tailored to the person. Maybe the option of straight up increasing upgrade slots at the cost of a sacrifice, or an additional primary ability, depending on power of the sacrifice. Then after the trial lordship and a class upgrade are granted, determined by choices made during the trial.

Quazzy

Who doesn't love a dramatic "I'm giving my life up for a power boost" moment?

dijet

I feel like it should have some connection to how will became a resourceful climber in the first place. Through sacrifice and doing everything he can to survive, I'd love to see him in a similar situation because recently it feels like he didn't really lose anything when he sacrificed his hand.