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/555/ Who Denies US Empire? ft. Daniel Bessner (Patreon)

Published:
2026-07-07 07:00:14
Imported:
2026-07

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Content

On 'imperialist realism'.

Daniel Bessner, historian, is back on to discuss the relation between US foreign policy and ideology. He talks to Alex and Lee about his forthcoming book and other writings.

Why has acceptance of imperialism accompanied declining support for empire?

What is the US's sense of mission and how does this coexist with cynicism?

Is US politics stuck between liberal guilt and conservative suprematism?

Does nothing ever actually change? Is the US even a democracy?

What would an effective anti-imperialist politics look like?

The full episode is for subscribers only, sign up at patreon.com/bungacast

Links:

Power without Ideology, Daniel Bessner, The Ideas Letter

Imperialist Realism: Politics and Culture at the End of the American Century, Daniel Bessner, Zer0 Books

/464/ Decline Under The Donald ft. Daniel Bessner

Files

Comments

Justin O’Connor

I wish Daniel had slowed down a little and considered the questions rather than rattling off answers that were somewhat fissiparous. The idea that the US did not use 'the national interest' seemed bizarre to me - yes it is a hugely diverse country but the notion of 'America' is precisely a claim to articulate a nation and its interests (and ideals) however ideological/ propagandised.

Justin O’Connor

On the other hand I do think 'the national interest' as an organising political concept for anti-imperialism is very limited. Identification with 'the nation' as a key organising political identity is itself in decline, hence its reactionary tinge when it does appear (hello Brexit). But I am thinking here about Adam Tooze's work as well as thinkers from the global south (which barely got a look in in this excruciatingly US-centric episode). The world is hyper interconnected, so how is a global system to be established. The conundrum facing the British, who kind of abandoned the attempt in the 1920s. The task that confronted Roosevelt (surely Daniel is wrong in his characterisation of hm as 'spheres of influence') and those post 1990. How will this interconnected world and its massive interconnected challenges achieve some semblance of order. Where is that historical project? The national interest is bound up with that global order, and this is more so in the "global south" where weak countries cannot assert such an interest. The post-volker shock 'third world' saw its claims to national sovereignty severely reduced. And they were forced to use the masters tools (IMF WTO etc.) to claw their way back to some kind of parity with the developed world. But weaker states are quite clear that their national interest is wrapped up with some kind of global order. Surely this is the post-imperial project - and it will be coming home (sorry) with climate change, mass AI induced precarity, volatile food and resource supply etc. The national interest of course plays a role but the planetary is a real political object now.

James

It's probably a very unsophisticated and entry level matter, but I would welcome any reading or listening about exactly why "fascism" has not been the right label for either Trump 1 or Trump 2. I have previously gone through the pod catalogue trying to find episodes on it but haven't really hit upon one.

Davka Smolah Collective

To leave a real answer for once about anti-imperialism, despite being a 🇺🇦🇮🇱 lot on our show, the way you avoid both the guilt (which brings the right-pop backlash), the soft humanitarianism, AND the campism is that you have to offer a systematic democratizing program that promises to cut the empire off the state.