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/347/ Feminists Touch Grass w/ Amber A'Lee Frost (Patreon)

Published:
2023-06-20 12:53:33
Edited:
2023-06-20 13:01:46
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

On reactionary feminism.

[Patreon Exclusive]

We continue our discussions on contemporary feminism by looking at the diametric opposite of the atomistic vision presented by Sophie Lewis: the conservative, communitarian approach advanced by Mary Harrington.

Harrington is critical of 'Progress Theology'. What does that mean, beyond rejecting new orthodoxies on gender – does that mean rejecting progress wholesale? If liberalism has reached a dead end, what intellectual supports should we draw upon?And if we join Harrington in rejecting the 'caring' state – the 'antiseptic cyborg devouring mother' – does that mean also defending 'care' against 'freedom', as she does?

Readings:

Feminism against Progress, Mary Harrington, Regenery

Reactionary Feminist, Mary Harrington, Substack

/49/ Kids & Confessions ft. Amber A'Lee Frost

/50/ On The Market ft. Anna Khachiyan

Files

Comments

Mathieu Dube

I think this discussion points to the fact that across the political spectrum, imagination is absent. We’d need to build new communities that would work against the atomisation that everyone rightfully decries. But no one has the courage to do it because it’s « cringe » to be earnest. We need new forms of communities that aren’t the subsistence farming family or the large factory union. But whenever things get difficult or « dirty » as human relationships tend to be, everyone runs back to their pod instead of standing up for a common space. For instance, most existing political groups(DSA is a good example) and even groups that aren’t particularly political, like maker spaces and such, are full of wreckers(often with really bad personality disorders or other mental health issues) armed with the woke ideology and nobody has the courage to stand up to them and say: no, this is a place where we live together as humans, not an individualist battlefield like the workplace. So everyone that is sane just avoid these places that could become communities for our age and the spaces never amount to much more than pathetic cliques.

Davka Smolah Collective

"Is the goal of feminism to question what womanhood is and abolish womanhood, or to further women's interests?" You could pretty much frame this and tap the sign for every single Left political movement, up to and including certain forms of communism. Not every subject has an interest in abolishing themselves!

aarinsanity

Harrington’s book was truly awful. Found it truly unreadable and like she had a stick up her a$$

Max Lopez

Seems like a mistake to say that liberation theology was never actually practiced

Robert

A bit laboured - the episode that is. I admittedly have not read her book, but have read many of her columns etc. Whilst she might not hit every mark, she’s broadly correct in a lot of her analysis. Without being deterministic, there are differences between the sexes - often minor, sometimes significant, but not imagined. As to the value we place on these differences, that’s circumstantial. Meaningless divorced from discussions around how ‘we’ might live. The snark expressed around certain aspects of her work seems a bit childish, defensive even. Convention is not to be dismissed merely because it’s conventional. Certain left ‘critics’, really do seem to like reaching certain obvious points the slow/hard way.

Richard R

My own ties force me to defend Haraway; she taught at my alma mater, and her marginalia were popular among my peers. I think cyborg feminism was more interested in doing away with the abstract, self-determining, free-floating individual subject than in doing away with bodies. Rather than looking for the heart and soul of the individual in society, or in interpersonal relationships, or in religion, or in biology, the point is to stop looking for a cabin in the Black Woods, and build that proverbial home in the deeply compromised, composite, impure spaces we already inhabit. No one's fucking "normal", guys. You can't live under capitalism and not be deformed by its alienation. Haraway teaches that that problem won't be solved by a cyber-nanny state, or a worker-run state, any more than it would be solved by fascism. You're fucked up and there's no "original" or "primordial" version of your humanity to go back to. Deal with it.

David

Excellent episode, I've really been enjoying this series.

Surface Envy

I'm surprised Mary wasn't available to discuss her book in person

Roman

Interesting episode with much to mull over. One comment re. the newspaper headline that said 30% of millennials are in favour of surveillance cameras in the home. In the age of clickbait media headlines can never be taken at face value and that’s especially true when grand claims are made based on a survey of people’s opinions. A more accurate headline would be ‘According to a poll 30% of millennials in [country/state/city] are in favour of surveillance cameras in the home.’ Without knowing the methodology, sample size and so forth statistics based on soliciting the public’s opinions are pretty much useless and IMO should never be used to back up a serious argument. Kind of surprised when George said that he didn’t check the accuracy of the 30% claim but nonetheless accepted it as fact. That said, even if that claim isn’t accurate there is no doubt that people in the present era are more sympathetic to authoritarianism than in previous decades if they think it will benefit them or harm their enemies. Plenty of solid data to back this up.

Rickie Leach

I'm transsexual and I don't generally care which toilet I use, or changing room, nothing happens there, they are rooms that smell whichever one selected. You do realise though that trans women use womens rape crisis centres because they get raped, quite often?

Blake

Phil always has the best takes on women's issues. On the final chapters on homesteading, I don't think this is meant as a prescription as much as it is just a moral defense of her own withdrawal from political struggle into a cocoon of middle class wealth.