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/355/ F***ing and shooting are not the same (Patreon)

Published:
2023-08-01 18:25:27
Imported:
2026-06
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On film and left-wing terrorism.

[Patreon Exclusive]

We talk about Uli Edel’s 2008 film The Baader Meinhof Complex, which tells the story of the Red Army Faction in 1960s and 70s Germany. What sorts of myths do films create? Is the attempt to break down myths in fact a way of re-making those myths? Is a Red Army Faction response possible today - and what does terrorism at the End of the End of History look like?

We also discuss the image-sausage-grinder theory of film and reflect on six years of podcast urban guerilla activity.Links

Episode on Berlusconi biopic, Loro: UNLOCKED /87/ Berluscoming

Symptom of the post-political – Terrorism in Contemporary German, British and Hollywood Cinema, Maren Thom (pdf)

"The State I Am In", Christian Petzold (2000)

Files

Comments

Davka Smolah Collective

I haven't seen the film, so take the following with a massive shaker of salt. Who says the Red Army Fraction is in the past? My experience is that it's less dead than divided into two parts. Its politics have lived on and are basically de rigeur on the Left these days -- very much alive. Its tactic (individual terrorism) was inherited by Islamists rather than the Left and is not dead but certainly went somewhere else. The interesting question is: why did those two strands that came together in the post-68 moment divide afterward and live on in such radically different forms, rather than sticking together for better or worse? How does their terror relate to their politics and their politics to their terror?

Konrad

Being an Ausländer, I couldn't help but think of the recent Lina trial when listening to this episode. This isn't to comment on her and her crew's actions or overstate how closely they resemble those of the RAF, but in particular the idea that the German state is fascist, has been infiltrated by fascists, or at the very least tacitly supports fascism is very much alive in 2023. I get the sense that the average leftist here in the east supports Lina on precisely those grounds, and the rationale of "well, something needs to be done" abounds.

Veit Groß

Thanks for that great episode! I watched the movie when it came out. As leftist students we all hated it. Back then, the RAF was a cultural token: To the centrists and right-wingers, it was a vindication of everything they believed. To them, the RAF's narcissistic and nihilistic idiocy proved the inherent dangers of leftwing radicalism. The RAF was used to browbeat the left, to the extent that even asking obvious questions (like the fact, that the official version of the "Stammheim night" is questionable at best) was completely beyond the pale. Most leftists caved to this, judging – correctly – that defending the RAF was probably not a good hill to die on. But if you wanted to be edgy under neoliberal hegemony in the 2000's, you indulged in RAF apologetics – especially by making fun of Hanns Martin Schleyer. There was a popular punk-rock song by WIZO ("Kopfschuss") that was comparing the BKA to the Gestapo, alluding to the killing of the RAF militant Wolfgang Grams. So, somewhat ironically, the constant demonization of the RAF by the centrists served to reinforce an impulse on the far left to defend them, in spite of the fact that the vast majority of the German left in the 70s and 80s was embarrassed and adamantly opposed to their “strategy” (if you want to use this term generously). So when that movie came out, we considered it just another propaganda piece. And it was. Granted: The movie portrays the RAF as heinous and self-righteous characters - and it is not wrong about that. Nevertheless, the cultural background of Germany in the 2000’s should be considered: As you alluded to, there were a lot of movies coming out during this time, that treat the subject of German history – “Sonnenalle”, “Downfall”, “Der Baader-Meinhof Complex”, “Goodbye Lenin”, “the Lives of others” come to mind, but there were more, such as documentaries and the like. The theme that unites them is that, taken together, they aim at a legitimization of the BRD by taking shots at its adversaries that had been so thoroughly beaten in 1989: The Nazis, the GDR and the western German 1970’s left. The soccer world-championship of 2006, held in Germany, was an important catalyst It was accompanied by a cultural project by German elites to forge a new sense of national identity that was defined by the opposition to communism and fascism, equating this position with a pro-capitalist outlook. The movie is part of this project, and as such, it is careful not to side with the right-wing interpretation of the RAF and to come across as balanced, leaving interpretation up to the viewer. This was done, I think, to avoid alienating the (many) boomers who had been leftists in the 70s and who had by that time reached influential positions in society. This air of sober objectivity is what makes it effective propaganda, regardless of accuracy of its depiction. (If by propaganda we mean a consciously manipulative product with the goal of propping up those in power). For this reason, I think we should retain some skepticism. This episode also reminded me about a weird family anecdote: I grew up in Stuttgart, and when my grandfather was still alive, we’d take family walks near the cemetery where the RAF-members are buried. One day, my grandfather would take us to their graves. He was a lifelong CDU-voter and BILD-reader, so you would have expected him to be gleeful. But instead, I remember him saying, in his thick Stuttgart accent: “there they lie… back when the RAF was still around, these rich assholes were still scared”. Everyone was kind of ignoring it, awkwardly looking at their feet (especially my boomer-leftist parents, who had known some RAF-sympathizers personally back at university). Looking back at this today, it reminds me that my grandfather was a lifelong atheist and that his father had been a KPD member in the 20s and 30s. My grandfather had worked his way up in the 50s and 60s but he grew up dirt-poor in rural Swabia. Never really knew what to make of this little episode…

Andrea

For the series on terrorism, do an episode on the obscure Italian trap Band p38 (named after the gun used by the BR), now under investigation for apology of terrorism for its name. An actual law in Italy. Talking about elaborating stuff of a past World hu?

Pier Paolo Tamburelli

I am halfway through it, so maybe you talked about it later, but to these events is dedicated what is probably the best artwork of last 50 years, Gerhard Richter's "17 Oktober 1977", a series of large historical paintings (like the capture and funeral scene) and small delicate portraits of Meinhof and Esselin. I think that is probably a more relevant starting point for a discussion than the movie.