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Recorded on January 20th, 2026.A quick chat about ads on the show.

Previous Ad Implementation FAQ: https://www.patreon.com/posts/ads-spotify-and-141215793

Edit - A common concern in the comments seems to be "They're putting ads on the Patreon content?" and I wanna clarify that no we are not doing that and there will never, ever, be ads on the Patreon content.Also since a handful of people asked, how the initial ad got accepted at all:Basically a series of awkward mistakes + me not really taking issue with the ad individually (by my own framework of how I accept ads, I was a happy customer for years and didn't really think anything of it)1 - Our network normally posts potential sponsors in like a "pipeline" that we look at, then we respond yes/no. This applies to every sponsor request. I am normally the only person that checks this but for anything I think the other guys might have questions on, I bring it up with them2 - For this ad, it didn't get added to the pipeline (it did for other podcasts in their network, this was just a mistake it didn't get added and sent to us, this has literally happened once and it was for this ad)3 - We got info about the ad in Slack (that I and our producer actively check, less Doug/Atrioc), I passively assumed we must have said yes to it, not remembering we never actually did, and since I had no issue doing the ad individually I didn't bring anything up (it was also over the holidays where I was intentionally checked out)4 - Day of the sponsor read Atrioc and Doug are seeing the ad for the first time. Atrioc assumes that we must have discussed and been down for this, and presumably feels uncomfortable speaking up about the ad because he's "late" to weighing in and other people benefit from this money that aren't him, so everyone just does the ad assuming everyone else was down.At the end of the day someone should have just said something and we presumably would not have agreed do it if we had discussed it, but we didn't. But yeah that's what happened lmao. - Aiden

Files

Comments

Austin

Glizzy glizzy glizzy

Iba Shinu

Glizzy glizzy glizzy glizz

fazebill

Glizzy glizzy glizzy

Dean Dunmire

Where are these ads lol. I haven’t seen any. Are they on the YouTube videos? Also I say pump the ads. Every podcast has ads lol

Jefferson Thervil

ngl i unsubbed from the patreon after the video aiden dropped then they went even crazier with the Ads

Gandolph

I personally don’t care about you taking ads like TT, as long as it doesn’t affect what you say outside of the ad spot. But I understand why others dislike it.

Chance Roberson

I would’ve loved to see atrioc do a Kalshi add 😔

Chance Roberson

And yet here you stand, the pig back to the trough

Gabe Taylor

Appreciate the transparency and know you guys have a team to support. Can't wait for the JD Vance interview

Samuel T

I hope a JD Vance presidential run ad gets accepted eventually.

Minmax

Please add war contractors and weapon manufacturers to the allowed list

Fluffyspook8

I’ve watched every patreon episode and love the content, been watching everything since day one. I use an ad blocker for everything, and skip over all ads that occur. I will continue to watch everything because the content and book clubs are great!

Cole Markusen

I honestly didn't get the pushback you guys got. Do I love TurboTax, no, but it's also one of the better solutions out there. Do I wish there was less lobbying, absolutely. Do I want to see more competition and even a broader government option, sure. If I don't want to see an ad, I can skip forward, lol, it's not a big deal. Pump away and get your bag while things last.

Policy Wonk

Chance this video is free to everyone btw. So they didn't have to pay for this.

Slimedog

Thanks for clarifying! I for one was really on the side of WTF ARE YOU DOING, and I was quick to judge too harshly, with this video and the recent statements I'm confident you guys ARE doing your best, want the best for your audience, and own up to mistakes (this really was a load of nothing), and aren't doing anything harmful. Get your bag, boys. Love the show!

deadKoala

You would be hard pressed to find a single company that hasn’t done anything bad or anti consumer or whatever

Sean

No clue why anyone cares. Serve me a Northrop Grumman ad and it’s ultimately on me if I purchase a B21 or not

ReformedHoneyBadger

My problem is actually that you haven't sold out enough. I'm going to unsubscribe from the Patreon unless and until you do an ad for Lockheed Martin.

Nifty

Glizzy goblin on a coffee cow

Mark Weldon

Stanz would have already done it by now. I'm going to need him to take on an advisory role on the pod.

Zander Corvin

You guys should've done an ad for the Shopify AI tool Sidekick™! It seemed like friend of the show and Shopify president Harley Finkelstein like the product. We need more exposure to AI gizmos and gadgets I just can't get enough! Excited for the Greg Bovino interview next guys.

Cavan Nugent

Please never do TurboTax again, I lost so much respect for your team for that decision. I appreciate you going forward and cancelling the TurboTax sponsorship, it's just the fact that this was ever allowed in the first place. As well as Adobe, seriously Adobe you let be a sponsor? Adobe is anti consumer company and has terrible terms of service, sending your viewership into the arms of a company that will take advantage of that factor is disappointing. It just feels disrespectful to myself as the viewer. I think myself and the community would appreciate the sponsorships you take on, you can personally stand behind yourself and the team. I know Atroic has been critical of TurboTax in the past, seeing him shill out for the money a year later personally disappointed me greatly in his character and what he stands by. Thank you for taking the time to read this, best of luck with the show <3 TLDR: no more scummy sponsorships please and thank you for acknowledging the situation

Wouter

There have been too many Youtube ad/sponsor campaigns that turned out to be shit products for me to trust any of them. So any ad segment on youtube makes me suspicious of the product/company, therefor: get that bag

Colton

The Adobe thing? It's Acrobat. It's a horrible product, at least I know I'm being lied to. I'd prefer that instead of being unsure.

Policy Wonk

I think the biggest problem is with Spotify. Even if you can't cut out any ads it comes off as disgustingly greedy and "double dipping" on that specific section of your market. This video mentions it but the basic conclusion I'm getting is that you wouldn't support Spotify/Apple music if you could. I've seen podcasts get away with just using their sponsored ads and no injected ads so why can't you? Just wish you went a bit deeper in that respect as Spotify is far and away the biggest ad offender. Edit: just watched the other faq and I understand a bit better. It is still unfortunate that Spotify et Al is such a worse experience now die to the vox partnership. I hope you guys can rengotiate that at some point as it stands the amount of ads are just too much and have been a detractor from your show. At least in reference to Spotify.

Tom Thorburn

Honestly, if Doug hadn't talked a while ago about how much time and energy this show takes, I might feel a little differently, but it's not fair to expect all that and for you all to be out of pocket for it + even if it's "not about the money" getting paid will always be an incentive and motivation to make the show better, which sounds good to me

Leon Massey

Aimen gaming how will this effect the financial prospect in the Sheik discord?

Hime

I'm okay with ad reads and it doesn't bother me like at all it's just that TurboTax does actually evil things and nobody should use it.

jo

Glizzy glizzy glizzy

erunoc

Glizzyhand ad read I genuinely appreciate the effort to explain this to us, and I think Aiden’s view of trying to get what he can out of this is very respectable. I found the ad choice a few weeks ago to be bad, but as long as it goes better in the future then I will not give any mind to that. I really want you guys to take a glizzy ad, please just do that. Please I’m begging you. Just one glizzy ad read per atrioc

Jacob Forbes

Y’all need to chill. Don’t buy the product and let them make ad money if they want. Goddamn

Hayden Schiff

They do exist in the YouTube videos, but if you have SponsorBlock you might not have noticed.

Michael Z

LONG RANT/TAKEAWAY For me personally, although very much appreciated by many who watch the show, this was what I was paying for/what you guys talk about. Every point made was so valid and if I was in your guys’ shoes, a lot of reasons why you do the show would be mine too. I’m a Spotify listener so hearing those other ads that you guys don’t make didn’t annoy me because I was too entertained by the ad read you guys did with silly jokes. It really makes my drives a lot quicker. Understandable though, there will always be confusion or perhaps some misconceptions so making this video was needed. My money is worth it with the extra content you guys provide (side note: I always thought that was patreon’s goal. Getting no ads because you pay shouldn’t be the expectation) I think that’s all I have to say sorry for this being long. Thank you for the content and for making me smile

This

super cool that you guys even consider this ... I don't know another show that cares ... ... Thanks!

Marc

I think it's fine as long as the "we can still talk about the brands freely" thing is ironclad. Yeah you can advertise for a company you've criticized in past, but you need to be aware what you say during ads contributes to your image as an influencer. So to counter that you need make additional effort to ensure the viewer can trust you still remain impartial. Atrioc did essentially (even if everyone knows it was for money) put his "stamp of approval" on TurboTax. Of course there's actually nuance, but this "emotional ambiguity" is what these companies pay for. Your imperfect brain essentially only remembering "Big A likes TurboTax" is what these companies rely on. As long as you guys still shit on Adobe and TurboTax as much as before it's fine. It's just important your content really isn't isn't impacted by who you're advertising, not even "subconsciously". If you guys ever find yourself hesitating making a joke on Adobe's expense, that's when I think there would be a problem. But it's important to communicate to viewers on an emotional level that you're not at that point yet. But for the viewer the status 0 (with ads) is the assumption that you are. It needs work on the influencers side (like through a 15min Patreon video) to correct that assumption.

Samuel Ray

It’s really refreshing to hear the BTS of your guys’s Ads philosophy of the pod! Thank you for sharing!

Hayden Schiff

Atrioc talked about how the TurboTax ad came to be on his stream a week or so ago. Basically they have some sort of shared document where Vox puts in potential sponsors and Aiden/Atrioc/Doug can go in there and approve them or not. Prior to the TurboTax incident, Aiden was the only person regularly looking at this shared document (and actually, even he never explicitly signed off on the TurboTax ad; it just went ahead because no one objected). So they didn't really realize there was gonna be a TurboTax read until it was the day of the shoot. At that point you've got an episode that needs to come out on deadline, and you've got all your staff in the studio that you're paying. If a host were to object at that point, it would create a crisis for the whole team because of their own mistake of not checking the ads document in advance. Atrioc said he was talking some crap about TurboTax's practices during some of the ad read takes, but of course, none of those made the final cut. So that's how it happened; it was a process failure, not a failure of moral values.

Floor

Hey, i recently canceled my membership over the Vox thing. Vox isn't my cup of tea and I'm upset to see this podcast go in that direction. If you don't renew the Vox contract, I'll resub. I really liked the Discord

Floor

I unsubbed too but i can view this. It's visible to the public (which is the correct decision)

borosorod

Can I get a quick explanation why turbotax is so bad? From my understanding I thought it was free and easy to use

MaiL6

Recored. Minor spelling mistake lmao

Floor

Haven't watched Lemonade Stand in a while. Is this a joke or confirmed? I'm assuming it's a joke but I'd really love to see them interview right wingers

Jefferson Thervil

hey man don’t call me a pig they put this up for free and i still follow them so i get notis but i barley kept up with the show since. I maybe watch an episode a month at best

Chance Roberson

The fact that anybody gets upset at a podcast doing an ad read is beyond me. The click through rate on an ad placed in the description has got to be so minimal, it would be lying to say that “Adobe” or “TurboTax” sees any benefit from having the lemonade stand advertise on a few episodes. I feel like people imagine ad deals as some devilish scheme when in reality, these companies have a pool of money that goes to advertisers, and they monitor overall profit growth compared to advertiser dollars spent. Atrioc isn’t in a board room talking to the ceo of TurboTax shaking hands, it’s probably just a few emails being sent and then the pod gets money.

Hugo Hancock

Yeah, I mean fair, whatever.

alone_x

I genuinely don't understand how a 30s ad read is enough to turn you off a 2 hour video of great content. If you just dont like the show anymore that's valid, but blaming an ad read sounds like pure cope imo

Hayden Schiff

This was a great response. I especially appreciated Aiden's brutal honesty of "hey, I put a lot of work into this and I want to make some money from it". No one ever wants to acknowledge financial motives, but we all have them. Anyone who thinks content creators should do everything at a net loss once they've had some success is not being realistic about what it's like to be the content creator in that scenario.

Cavan Nugent

Hello there Hayden! Thank you for sharing that, it does help with the perspective on the situation a lot. Life can absolutely get ahead of you and be overwhelming so I don't blame them for the initial mistake, I hope they learned from this and go back on course<3

finn the leech

TurboTax is notoriously unethical, and they seem to agree. I think they're taking steps to avoid similar ads in the future, and as long as people don't complain about the next ad, if it's ethical, then it's fine. I like this direction and video but the audience not wanting to support a show that indirectly protects or profits from something deeply immoral I think was reasonable.

Len

I don't have any problems with the ads, I get that the show needs to make financial sense. If the ads are funny I watch them, otherwise skipping a minute forward is easy enough. My worry is more about any direct or indirect influence on the content: If there were an Adobe scandal, would/could you cover it in the same episode where you do a sponsorship? Or another episode? Or never? Would you get a sponsorship, if you talked negatively about the company before, or do (most) companies not care about it? If you had Apple ads for a year and a news story about horrible working conditions in Apple factories came up, would you talk about it differently? Even if the contract said you could legally talk about anything, Apple might decide to just not renew the deal if you are to negative.

Hayden Schiff

The product is fine, but it shouldn't need to exist. In many other countries, taxes are much easier to file because the government gets all the data from your employer. For most people, the tax collector says "hey, we think you owe this much", and if you agree, you just pay it. The US government has all the same data and COULD have an easy e-file option, but Intuit spends a ton of money lobbying the government not to do this so that they can keep selling TurboTax forever.

Cavan Nugent

In the current state of how the US taxes work is that the person being taxed is responsible for giving the government the correct amount of money otherwise they face jail time, restrictions like drivers license and so on if they're off on the amount. This is unlike other countries as they tell their citizens the exact amount they owe, making it miles easier for the people. Turbo tax hires people to sway courts in favor of keeping the US tax operations the way it is, so they stay viable as a company. They're profitimg off your suffering on purpose. They also have donated to political figures to influence policy change in their favor, taking away the democratic process of the people. Basically big company hitting down on the little guys to keep them down

finn the leech

Ok, but when are you launching the LS crypto coin tho?

borosorod

Wow I didn't know it was so easy in other countries. Ty!

alone_x

You guys have gone above and beyond explaining your ad process and vox partnering, I really appreciate the transparency. Hopefully everyone losing their minds will actually listen. I think the Turbotax pushback was fair but sometimes it feels people are just upset about ads in general which I think is less valid

Enderdan R-G

They lobby to keep the tax system complicated so people will pay for services like theirs

nick

1. great response, always good when you address the situation like human beings! 2. atrioc definitely the guy in relationship arguments that can’t stop cracking jokes to break the tension lmao 3. would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on edward zitron and if they like his writing to get him on the pod, extremely well researched AI/tech critic

Undisabled

It's wild that people can't just skip a 60 second ad and let y'all get the bag. If you are critical of a company or service when talking candidly, a 60 second paid ad isn't going to make me think you've suddenly 180d on the product.

No Name

No issues with Vox, ads are totally understandable. Just don’t promote scams and y’all are good from my perspective. Turbotax was an example of a scam it was going too far. Adobe is just a consumer software company thats scummy. So long as taking these ads does not compromise what you can say about the company within the episode or on other episodes I see no issue with ads that are not scams or promoting something directly “evil”. (to be honest though im straight up skipping every single ad now I have no interest in any of the things y’all advertise they have no appeal to me. it is like what you all said for the most recent Snapchat ads that a lot of people really like them because they appeal to them. None of the advertisements that you all do appeal to me at all not really an issue but it does make everyone perspective of them for sure worse including my own. (I do wonder why market segmentation for online ads targeting the demographics of an audience are not better for podcasts, if I use reddit or snapchat or other social media apps I can get way way better targeted ads, do these companies see any real benefit and positive return doing ads like this?) My concern is if the information you say when you do an Ad read no longer has trust to it or does not feel genuine its not you saying hey heres this service I find genuinely good or useful. It is now hey here is a service I have to lie or mislead to sell to you because they gave me a ton of money. Even with the ads not being genuine products you support or use it’s fine to take ads up to a point. Scamming innocent or unaware people is one such line not to cross.)

Z Coop

Huge props for again releasing a full, well-put response to some valid concerns. I don't want to downplay valid criticisms, but I just want to throw out there that there are at least some folks, of which I'm one, who watch and follow yall for exactly what it says on the tin, and genuinely trust your judgement and have faith in your integrity to make good choices, avoid editorial pressure, and do exactly what yall have been doing since day one, even when it's opaque from the outside. I love this show, I love listening to yall as hosts, and I follow precisely because I value your judgement and takes on things. I'm so, so happy to see the show grow, and I can't wait for the opportunities that lie ahead, keep it up!

Zachary Kress

I find it weird when people try to hold creators accountable but not themselves. If you don’t like a product, don’t use it. You guys advertising a product isn’t an endorsement. How many of these people upset by the ads support other organizations like any sports leagues, watch movies created by Disney, Pixar, etc. Those things are all supported by ads from bad businesses that you may not agree with. For those that are upset by the ad reads. Do you watch the NFL? Disney movies? Any streaming service? Watching, using, and/or supporting those things has more of an impact than these goobers doing an ad read that you can skip past. Don’t like the product? Don’t buy it. TLDR glizzy glizzy glizzy

Bird

Aiden talking about wanting to make money from the show is really relatable to me as a teacher. Obviously its not a 1-1, but in my profession I feel this weird dissonance where I have to pretend its not a job, yes I love my students, yes I'm not just clocking in and zoning out for the pay, but I and every other teacher have to be there for the money because that's how labor works. Unless they compromise the actual work I won't disrespect reasonable monetization. I have no problems with most ads so long as it doesn't influence content. I don't mind an Adobe ad if there's still relevant discussions like the ones last year about how their Figma merger being blocked improved the market because an adobe monopoly sucks. Frankly, I didn't even mind the TurboTax ad as long as I trust they can still talk about how the whole tax industry is a corrupt lobbying tumor. If I ever feel like they are avoiding talking about something or adding padding to appease a sponsor I'll change my mind, but until then I choose benefit of the doubt.

nickotine

lol get a load from this guy

Nick Longley

Hi Aiden and Co, I really appreciate the video, but I do have a major question that was never addressed and barely even touched on: how did you pick the TurboTax ad in the first place? All you said was that, to quote Doug, you guys "failed to adequately [turn down the ad in question]" which isn't an explanation but a restatement of what happened. Why? How? I was waiting with anticipation the entire video to find out how this happened in the first place, because it's arguably the most important. It's also not a matter of having made videos negative about them before - that's a disingenuous way to portray our arguments (so I assume it was just a misunderstanding of what we were saying). It's the fact that Atrioc has made the case that there is NOTHING good about TurboTax and it's actively impeding our entire country's ability to get free tax filings. This isn't "bad business practices but sick laptops." They're bad all the way down. And yet, you guys took the sponsorship. So I ask...why? What happened that let it happen?

Chris

Adobe was sued over its predatory behaviors in 2024. TurboTax is a product useful to small business and those with more complicated taxes. I think you and so many others are over-reacting. Does saying you'll 'skip every single ad now' really sound like a fair reaction, especially after they published this video?

Nick Longley

And to be clear, it's not some unforgivable sin, and simple negligence isn't either (if that's why), but it's important to know.

Bubbles

I noticed the no ads on youtube, thats been awesome and the viewing experience on yt and patreon is 1:1. There's really no winning, the puritanical view some people have on which companies youre allowed to support changes person to person and is always gonna exist. Difficult balancing act. Glad you guys read the feedback and communicate it well, keep doing what youre doing!

No Name

Also sorry to comment twice, why is Atrioc constantly harping on about this strawman “y’all are saying we cant take big advertisers because I have talked bad about them before. We wouldn’t be able to take ads from any of the top companies because I have talked about them all previously” You are more in touch with the comments than I am but I don’t think many people were saying if you have talked bad about a company you can’t advertise it later. I saw no one saying you cant support google or nvidia or microsoft . (im sure like one guy did and yes people do seem to completely misunderstand the Vox partnership somehow still, I guess from their perspective we do not see any of the proof or documentation that shows that you are not a puppet of Vox or at risk of heavy influence from them. Some people seem worried that you are compromised by a “publisher” and they can exert pressure on you to advertise products that you may not 100% support but are relatively OK with either because you don’t know enough about them or because they can exert an undue influence as someone who brings in guests for you. They have leverage over you. I see no issue with Vox though.) People specifically did not like Turbotax (and adobe to a lesser extent) because your previous videos said (this is not a direct quote and may be misattributing what you meant) “this product is evil. I do not support it. They are ruining our tax filing system through money in government” If you say something like that it’s pretty understandable that people would hate an ad for it later. Similar to the crypto analogy its something you actively dislike and say you will never do, if you later did an ad on crypto scams you should be called out for it.

Connor Gaston

I totally understand wanting to make money off of the show, in fact I am happy that you guys and the crew do. The main worry is that it might prevent you from talking about issues that have to do directly with the products sponsoring you. I vaguely remember you guys talking about an adobe competitor that was prevented from being bought up (very vaguely I could be making shit up, but it's just an example of something you might cover). I just wonder if you wouldve been able to discuss that topic at all if it was during an episode with an adobe ad. That said I still love the show and all the extra Patreon episodes. Keep up the good work and the great transparency.

Chris

From someone who has used both the free and paid versions, it's got good and bad sides. The good, it helps simplify taxes. If you have one job, it's free and easy to use. Cool. In the past I've used the paid version. It especially made my taxes easier when I had 4 side gigs (apps like DoorDash, Uber, etc). This required one of the paid versions for how I used it specifically. It handled all my returns in one portal and guided me in a way I would've struggled with alone. HUGE time saver for me. The bad? They make it seem like you need to pay for features you may not need. Some people fall for this trap. They also infamously pay to lobby those in power to keep the system as-is where we even need tax software. In an ideal world, the government should have programs in place to handle taxes for free. TurboTax has also done shady tactics like purchasing CreditKarma, who used to provide a free tax filing software. Now CreditKarma redirects to TurboTax as a suggested action. So are they evil? No more evil than any other big corporation, but yes they are evil. Should we be mad at the podcast? No, all the haters need to chill tf out bro lol. They're over-reacting. Let these guys make some money, right? It's wild! However there was some valid criticism. One example was that one of the podcast members had openly criticized TurboTax (I can't remember which one) not that long ago, so the ad felt disingenuous. That's valid criticism, but some people are taking it a bit far. I read one comment which said they're skipping all future ads... like bro lol.

Phlyrox

my request is that you remain authentic in your ad reads. i dont like a lot of apples strategy and dont buy their products bc of it, but i wont think of anyone negatively for genuinely liking their products and promoting it. something that sounds disgenous leaves a bad stain on everything else you do though. something about trust being built in drops lost in buckets. there's some vigilance or consideration needed for evaluating the business model but I trust you're already doing that.

Lemonade Stand

Aiden here -- Basically a series of awkward mistakes + me not really taking issue with the ad individually (by my own framework of how I accept ads, I was a happy customer for years and didn't really think anything of it) 1 - Our network normally posts potential sponsors in like a "pipeline" that we look at, then we respond yes/no. This applies to every sponsor request. I am normally the only person that checks this but for anything I think the other guys might have questions on, I bring it up with them 2 - For this ad, it didn't get added to the pipeline (it did for other podcasts in their network, this was just a mistake it didn't get added and sent to us, this has literally happened once and it was for this ad) 3 - We got info about the ad in Slack (that I and our producer actively check, less Doug/Atrioc), I passively assumed we must have said yes to it, not remembering we never actually did, and since I had no issue doing the ad individually I didn't bring anything up (it was also over the holidays where I was intentionally checked out) 4 - Day of the sponsor read Atrioc and Doug are seeing the ad for the first time. Atrioc assumes that we must have discussed and been down for this, and presumably feels uncomfortable speaking up about the ad because he's "late" to weighing in and other people benefit from this money that aren't him, so everyone just does the ad assuming everyone else was down At the end of the day someone should have just said something and we presumably would not have agreed do it if we had discussed it, but we didn't. But yeah that's what happened lmao.

Julian Heisler

Yep. Mostly everyone understands they need to make money to pay for the staff and the time they put in. This podcast more than most is one that shows some harsh realities about the economy etc. Their honest view is why I watch. I will stop being a viewer when that trust is gone and a Turbo Tax ad, Adobe ad and that terrible interview make me less trusting in their impartiality honestly

Chris

Please watch the video. The way that they explain the contract will help you understand why this statement is insane.

Lemonade Stand

The injected ads aren't Spotify or Apple's, they are Vox Media's. That's why they're the same across those platforms. They're the default "fill" for the minimum number of ad slots in our contract, I answer this more extensively in the other FAQ linked in the description. - Aiden

Lemonade Stand

I answer why TT ended up happening in a comment thread closer to the top, if you wanna check that out. But for the rest of your comment I feel like this is all being directly addressed in the video - Aiden

Tyler Page

Sure, but there’s alternatives. That’s the perk of partnering with Vox. I’m sure they offer blacklist options, so Apple could exclude this pod from Vox’s talent pool. On the TurboTax side, if LS was to badmouth them now, it likely burns the whole ‘Intuit’ bridge, which is simply unwise, and could make all future advertisers more hesitant. Explaining the “why” they accepted it, would almost certainly create that rhetoric. It’s also quite possible they assumed this audience wouldn’t use it, but the bag was realllly nice 🤷‍♂️

Lemonade Stand

I can see this concern echoed in a few comments but this is answered directly in the video haha - Aiden

No Name

Yea a company was sued over predatory practices for a CONSUMER product that you do not have to use. Taxes are a legal REQUIREMENT. It is using people that are misinformed or uneducated on a topic to support an evil company for a LEGALLY REQUIRED SERVICE THEY LOBBY AGAINST. I said I skip ads because they do not appeal to me. I am not making a stand and it is not because of the turbotax ad. I skip all ads since the start of the show because I have no interest in the products and I am voicing that to support the idea that people are more likely to like and listen to ads they care about.

Nick Longley

I know a lot of people will probably say you didn't owe me/us that reply, but I really appreciate you doing so. Makes sense, shit happens. Looking forward to future content!

No Name

Okay after getting a single comment of someone misrepresenting and misunderstanding every single thing I said to my own comment on this video, I understand why you might get annoyed these people can’t fucking read.

Lemonade Stand

I'm not here to change your mind but it's worth noting that the "Vox" people are familiar with, like the news / YouTube channel, is a separate company from the "Vox Media" that we work with. But you do what you gotta do, that's all g - Aiden

Lemonade Stand

TBH with you I think this is so remotely beyond what we would say yes to, let alone even something that would be offered, that we've never officially added it to the list. We're not gonna do a weapon manufacturer ad lmao - Aiden

4rby

I installed patreon exclusively to listen to you guys more and it’s largely because you come off as genuine, normal dudes who are informed and well intentioned, and not afraid to say when they don’t know everything or when they’ve made mistakes. Not to mention actually listening, commenting, and making changes based on feedback. It’s honestly so refreshing in today’s online environment.

XCaliber

The bqsic idea is that taxes by themselves should be free and easy to do. From my understanding, Turbotax lobbies hard for the gov to now have its own free and accessible tax filing solution. Their argument is that they already exist. But in reality while you technically CAN file with TurboTax for free, the links and options are very well hidden and they use marketing tactics to get people to pay anyway. From a consumer point of view they are an exploitative company that on purpose makes (or atleast lobbies to keep) the filing system complex and hard and then offers a paid "easy" solution. When in reality the complexity is totally bogus and artificially maintained to keep their business intact.

Dragau4

I know right?? I genuinely think online content is turning into pure ragebaiting...

Dragau4

I genuinely do not see any issue with your ads, I have always trusted the jugement you make, and honestly, some Yard ads are sometimes one of the funniest bits of the episode.

Dragau4

Anyone saying "why do you want money you're rich" are SERIOUSLY and purposefully being ignorant and very selfish jealous ppl... Like with literally anything, there is more than just them 3, and even in just them 3, Aiden is not a streamer... He doesn't have the funds that Doug and Atrioc have, even with the Yard...

borosorod

The yard doing a palantir sponsor just for the bit would be peak

Chris

TurboTax is evil, but use the free version or an alternative (there are many). Like I said, I'm not defending TurboTax but the line you're drawing is very odd. I do want to inform you though that TurboTax isn't your only option, I do hope you know that. I mean if you don't even watch ads, I'm not understanding your huge rant. I'm not trying to upset you but the ads aren't that deep. If you're not going to watch the ads regardless.. what's going on man? Edit: Removed the part about multiple comments, I realized Patreon shows No Name for multiple people. I thought it was like... an 'edgy' name, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Dillon Lukaszewski

Can we get a raid shadow legends add please? I think that would really bring this podcast to the next level

Chris

Also yes TurboTax does lobby in ways that should be illegal. Yes they are evil. You're describing a lot of major corps who lobby for legal changes or exceptions. I do understand TurboTax is EXTRA infuriating because tax season/tax return software shouldn't even be a thing we do/need (it should be handled by the government), but I just don't see how Lemonade Stand turning down a TurboTax ad is going to fix anything. Those who also do need it, TurboTax is convenient. Its not like gambling where there's a moral line that can cause major addiction/debt. I guess that's why I draw lines between... tax software and gambling/crypto. Though I guess I can see how you would view crypto and tax software as 'scams,' but TurboTax is at most deceptive/evil, not a scam. Anyways, that's only my 2 cents. You don't have to agree with me. And you probably don't agree with me. That's fine. Just voicing my own opinion, I hope you understand.

Dragau4

okay but unironically I would love a Raid ad done by either LS or the Yard lmao, would probably be the absolute funniest shit ever

Leberschnitzel

for me personally the style of monetization feels ok with The Yard, but it feels weird for a podcast that's more "news" based.

Aethnyx

It feels inherently contradictory to be aware of how shit the economy and future outlook is for regular people trying to find work at all, while simultaneously putting a 2 year time window to make enough to possibly retire off of and afford a family etc on. No this career will not last forever, you might have to work after, thats the reality for 99.99% of people too. We just don't have the opportunity to EVER make enough in 2 years to retire. I feel like its not THAT much of an ask to be like, hey maybe make less money and retire in 4 years, or maybe it fizzles out in year 3 and you couldn't retire and that sucks for you a little bit but at least you maintained coherent respect and empathy for your audience by not shilling immoral corporate slop to them solely because you dont want to have to work that extra couple years. Its an insanely privileged position to even be in, that taking the "well i'm already in such a good position, i should take maximal advantage of it selfishly" feels like it breaks a connection to the audience. "well im nancy pelosi it'd be dumb of me not to insider trade on all stocks using privileged information from congress" is kinda a similar mentality. I'm using hyperbole and its obviously not a 1 to 1 direct comparison but im hoping it illustrates the point in a way that might break through aiden's perspective to look from outside himself how others might see it. I'm not trying to be unfairly harsh, but i am trying to explain a complicated nuanced nebulous muddy mess of emotions and ideas congruently and as clearly understandably as I can. Saying you cant be negative about a brand ever feels like a strawman. Turbotax was not "you said something negative about it 3 years ago" its fundamentally simply a product that is harmful to society that should not exist. Its beaurocratic extortion and funds lobbying. I wouldn't support a Chik-fil-a, or a hobby lobby sponsor either, actively working to destroy LGBT rights in the country etc. "saying negative about a company" isnt the problem, is WHAT the negative IS about the company that turns it from "thats a product or company i dont like" vs. "thats a company that is fundamentally ontologically evil and bad for society to exist". The latter is where i have a firmly hardline no stance. Also, spending thousands, tens of thousands, or whatever on a set is uhhh.... just a bad use of money then? You'd have the same viewership without the set, it was a largely unnecessary expense. Does it make nicer thumbnails? sure i guess, you'll probably claim that its going to be worth it in the long run or was necessary to jumpstart and establish credibility or whatever but i've been watching youtube for 20 years and its just not true. Channels without custom thumbnails have millions of subscribers and loyal audience because the content itself is high quality, it doesnt need clickbait gimmicks and chasing trends of the alogrithm to succeed. If the choice was between "take shitty sponsors and have a set" vs. "take only good sponsors without a set" i think a HUGE majority of viewers would have chosen the latter.

Bailey Yin

Like a lot of people, the main problem I had was not having ads in general or ads for companies that you had talked about some negative aspects. The issue was mainly with TurboTax ad since it is for a company and others like it that has been talk about as more of an imposed scam. It just felt like past a line.

Ben B

1:10 they specify that part of their agreement with Vox is that when they take an ad, they HAVE to be able to still talk about it if it comes up in the news. And I really don't think these are the guys to lick the boots of corporations just because they did a sponsored ad and are scared of the money from that one corporation going away after honestly talking about it in an episode

Angelis

I use sponsor block for this reason lol I just need them to add it to patreon now

CoCap

For me I don't buy products based off of a creators ad reads unless I know they have direct links to the company or product. For most reads I'll just skip them unless its a fully produced skit that is an addative to the experiwncw. I really appreciate the willingness to listen and change based off of the communities views. Whilst there are definitely some ad reads I personally dislike hearing. Specifically hearing that you won't take a betterhelp ad reaffirms my belief that you guys are in this for the right reasons. Keep up the goos work and im looking forward to the China episode.

Abdul

You guys create content I enjoy listening to, every creator deserves to be paid for their work period.

Ben B

You make it sound like they care more about the pod being profitable than the content being good, even though they also talk about how with the Vox partnership, they said they had plenty of other offers that would've brought in even more money, but chose them based on what the company was providing in terms of resources and that it was a good fit. You say that they're taking the position of "well I'm already in such a good position, i should take maximal advantage of it selfishly", and that's such a wild and misguided accusation when they've been transparent about all the ways that they AREN'T taking maximal advantage of the show to make a bunch of money. It's pretty normal to start any business or in this case a podcast with the hopes that it will also bring about a profit, but they aren't acting like some major company trying to squeeze every last penny out of us lmao. Also Aiden didn't even say hes trying to retire in 2 years??? Just that he has a saving goal over the course of the next 2 years to be able to afford moving where he wants and supporting a family, which is beyond reasonable. "I feel like its not THAT much of an ask to be like, hey maybe make less money and retire in 4 years, or maybe it fizzles out in year 3 and you couldn't retire and that sucks for you a little bit but at least you maintained coherent respect and empathy for your audience by not shilling immoral corporate slop to them solely because you dont want to have to work that extra couple years." Yeah, it is a lot to ask of someone not to do what's best for their future lmao. They have different opportunities than us that puts them in a better position than me or you, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't keep doing their best to do what is best for their goals and future. You act like every single ad they've done so far is from Evil corp that wants to steal your first born child. Are TurboTax and Adobe good moral companies? No of course not, but neither is 99% of the companies that pay for advertising, we have a problem of unchecked bullyish capitalism but that's not their fault. Millions of people genuinely use TurboTax and Adobe because they are still useful products, and yes they shouldn't have to pay to use TurboTax because Intuit lobbies a shit ton to keep tax laws complicated which makes their product more enticing, but it's certainly not corporate slop as you put it. If we all stood on a perfectly moral highground about everything we purchase or do, we would hardly be able to do anything in this country lmao. Also, I've never made a podcast set and I doubt you have either, so not sure where the qualification is to say how much spent on a set is bad or good. I don't think they were sitting there thinking "hmmmmmm yes lets spend a bunch on the set and just take whatever sponsers we can get", they had a creative vision and spent what they needed to execute it. I think you are being unfairly harsh for sure, and to be perfectly honest they gave a lot of good faith arguments for their reasoning for ads and such that it seems like didn't get through to you.

Jack_of_all_15

We’re not all so easily influenced that we’ll just buy a product because it was advertised to us, even if that’s the goal. It’s just an issue of the erosion of trust. If Company X gets a referral from LS, and next week there’s news about “Company X is a huge amoral scam”, it reflects poorly on the reputation of those who endorsed it. Even if we as an audience know it had nothing to do with actions LS made themselves. There’s an implied measure of trust when anyone endorses anything, even if that measure is subconscious. Companies are paying for a bit of the reputational weight of its sponsored creators, that’s the exchange that’s occurring. If I know Company X was shitty but it was the only option I just wouldn’t give a full-throated endorsement to family and friends, even if they know I use its product or service.

Matthew Kornfield

The set I think is just an example of costs, the fact that contractors like Perry along with the three people who make the show are benefitting more from ads to me is a net positive. Advertising is annoying, sure, but annoying things pay the bills. If you can't bear to listen to the ads, or think they're too greedy, I think you should go read a book or something.

Lemonade Stand

Let’s start with a few things, because honestly I think your willfully negative interpretation of what I said is very frustrating. I understand I’m in a privileged position 100%, but I am absolutely comfortable making the best of this situation within my moral compass. I think it’s incredibly entitled for you to basically say “why don’t you just retire in 4 years instead of 2” when you seem to lack context about why it’s 2 to begin with, let alone the fact that all you have to do as a viewer is tap “skip 30 seconds” twice on your phone to not engage with the ad at all, and that’s ignoring that this whole video is a response to us dropping a 14 week contract with the company that kicked this all off. It should be abundantly clear that the goal is not just to min max profit on the show to begin with, demonstrated by - turning off YouTube AdSense - refusing a variety of ads to begin with - cancelling this specific ad deal and similar ones to it in the future - waiting almost a year to sign an ad deal at all - picking an ad deal that paid us less but was a better fit for the show - spending money on things like the nice set, with the understanding that you can have a successful but “less nice” show without those things The dichotomy you make at the end doesn’t exist, you just made it up. I just listed the set as an example of expenses that people don’t account for, among a variety of other things, because some people (not you) think that 30% of the rev of the show just lines each host’s pockets. The set could not exist and the general argument I am making would be the same, that the show's expenses are larger than most people think across the board. At the end of the day, we select sponsors within boundaries, and then specifically dropped the most recent one that you’re complaining about for a variety of reasons. And then to end this, the most frustrating part, about my retirement. I couldn’t spend an extra 10 minutes talking about the specifics of my financial future, but here it is, albeit synthesized. I have 2 years to save a large amount of money because I am moving in 1.5-2 years, which means I am giving up the show (The Yard) that is the vast majority of my income. I am trying to save up enough money in that period of time so that I can work a normal job after that 2 year period for the next 8-10 years. After that point the money I saved should be able to make it so I am “work optional,” which means I will have enough in savings that if I am unable to find another job at that point, I will have enough to sustain myself, a wife, and two kids. If my plan is too privileged for you, then just stop watching the show, unsubscribe, turn it off, whatever, because I think those goals are beyond reasonable and set because of very reasonable constraints in my life. I am in a position where I think I am absolutely maintaining my integrity while making a specific and reasonable plan to sustain my future given the realistic outcome that maybe one day I will be unable to get a job to sustain said family in the way I want. - Aiden

Lemonade Stand

Also the strawman isn't a strawman, some people leverage the "you complain about this company, how could you do an ad for them" all the time, against more than just TT as well. That's responding to a specific subset of the audience that makes that argument, this is a broad response to many people not just the way you and a subsection of others feel.

Excalibur 11

Does YouTube Music have ads? Or is it disabled? I really want to find a better way to listen to the regular podcast than Spotify. Even with premium it's kinda annoying.

Aiden McCaig

Not sure, I think YouTube Music may just rip the video audio so that means it has fewer ads? Easy test is boot the ep on there and see if it *starts* with an ad, if it doesn’t, then it’s just copying the YouTube audio and not using the Apple Podcast/Spotify audio

Excalibur 11

Problem is they give you a YouTube Music premium free trial that you can't cancel, so there's no way of knowing until mid Feb, I suppose.

GreyIs

Wait so your viewpoint is that yes the company does bad things to its consumers but no there's nothing wrong with trying to turn someone into a consumer of theirs?

Yev

its madenning to me that you guys have to make a video like this and even explain yourself on why you want to make money off of your own effort, time, knowledge, research, not to even mention the team that helps you, kudos to yall for being transparent!

Aiden McCaig

No, the point is that it is possible to genuinely advocate for a product that you also have lodged complaints about and that isn’t inherently contradictory

Richard

Thanks to the LS team for this video. I wanna acknowledge how infuriating it must be to go through this comment section. I think taking the TurboTax ad wasn’t great, but in the same way it’s not great to do ads for any large corporation. This is a good apology and explanation. I appreciate the work y’all do to make good content from a left-of-center perspective (we fucking need it)! Just please don’t take any ads for Saudi Aramco, Lockheed Martin, or the GOP please!

Tmbrown20

Bro has half a mill in csgo skins

Leo

You can look through the comments on this post and find a couple examples of people referencing how Atrioc had yalked poorly of e.g. TurboTax before advertising for them. A talking point that a lot of people use isn't a strawman, it's an opinion that is popular that you have to respond to.

Frank

Had to go through the comments to even figure out, which ad-read people were unhappy with. Kinda was hoping that it would be Adobe Acrobat Studio because you guys can't stop yapping about it and your mugs xd I think you're good. You're totally putting in the effort to get paid for this, even if you happen to have money already. And as for Doug, who has to shoulder his miss-purchase on the stock pick challenge: I'm glad if he doesn't need his sister to help with the taxes again. Love your show, the topics you pick and especially the morals and values you all project, when talking about them. This alone is giving me reason enough to trust you're picking sponsors that aren't the devil himself, let alone the fact, that you made this video taking responsibility and talking about it, when you did slip up somewhat. Plus i'm not from the U.S., so i couldn't purchase 90% of what i see in ad-reads anyways 👍

Guy Fernando

Am I the only one who thinks it’s sort of weird that the guest has the most to say about Lemonade Stand’s ad policy?

chance isaac

But like I said up top I’d be surprised if there’s another truly bad ad after this.

Tempest Liu

Lemonade stand and Natural six are the only two podcasts that I actually note down the time stamps of ads and watch them specifically on video. It’s more comedy than ad.

Aethnyx

I agree that the "maximal profit" was an unfair claim. I agree you're making concessions. I disagree that it's willfully negative. I tried my best to put into words why people took issue with the ads beyond just turbotax, like adobe. That it went beyond just disliking a company but at inherently predatory business models or restrictive extortion walled garden costs etc. Criticizing a company isnt the problem, is the substance of what the criticism is that matters, the category or type of criticism. I'm not being entitled about having to skip the ad, I'm being entitled about wanting the creators i watch to maintain respect and empathy for me as a viewer. I agree the ad itself is a minor blip short term effect that can be forgotten within minutes. The longer term lingering effect is the separation of respect from the creator to audience and vice versa that has been damaged. I think i did a poor job of clarifying that what i'm upset about still, is any potential misunderstanding about why the audience was upset, thats what i was trying to explain, that underlying why. I think your handling of the issue has largely been reasonable and its not going to prevent me from watching the show. I should have done a better job of proactively communicating that this is not "i'm still pissed for these reasons" so much as a retrospective "here's why people were upset maybe perhaps more than you expected or for reasons you don't quite understand".

james Burnett

Do you think there would be the same amount of backlash about a health insurance ad? As the wise man childish Gambino once said "this is America." There are a few aspects of our lives that are fundamentally worse than Europeans because of this fact. Do you think some people are extra sore because there was a free government solution that is unavailable this year?

james Burnett

Money is money in my opinion. Besides I hear Raytheon money throws beautiful weddings.

Philippe Girard

Please put regular episodes on patreon ad free

Jojothejman

It's not that you made videos talking about the company or a parent company. You SPECIFICALLY called out TurboTax for being VERY BAD. If you had just happened to say something happened with turbo tax it wouldn't have been such a big deal.

Zr0w3n

They've said before that the Patreon isn't for ad free stuff. But I do really want them to upload the regular episodes to the Patreon. Why do we need to go to two places to get episodes. Just make them all available here.

Len

Well, yesn't. You said there is no direct influence, which is great, though I am more worried about things outside any explicit contracts. You may be allowed to talk about a sponsor negatively, but if you do it too much companies could be less likely to sponsor you in the future. Its like with company policies about reporting abuse/malpractice/security/... They might say that you can safely report anything, but if you actually do, you might be seen as a trouble maker and not be promoted/transfered to a worse department/get dead-end tasks like printing endless pages in the basement. As the audience, we do not know what happens behind the scenes and often imagine the worst, while to you it may all look clear and the concerns silly/unreasonable. Nevertheless, I like the show you put on and your transparency! Keep it up and hopefully I will see that my concerns were silly as well haha

Steven

I think this response would help a lot of the people who are still upset be significantly more understanding of what happened. From reading comments it seems they’re under the impression that you guys collectively and consciously agreed that “yes I want to promote turbo tax”, not a series of unfortunate mistakes as you’ve explained. I hope more people read this, and that this response is copy and pasted to people in the future who continue to be upset by the turbo tax ad :)

c

Yeah same here. I’ve started to miss out on episodes because of this annoying split

c

Yeah it’s time I vote with my wallet until you bring episodes together in one place and with no ads. Fuck this

kylemonster17

i wish creators would do math to determine how loud the minority group is screaming

Dr. DankDabs

Super glad that you’re going to be saving the crypto and gambling ads for Patreon videos. I wouldn’t want any of the poors getting the quick and guaranteed money that comes with those both.

Denice

The competitor was Figma, I think, and yes the deal didn’t go through

Danilee

I’m part of the quiet minority I guess. IDGAF about what ads you do

Peter Sadek

I hope you don’t mean that the extra hour for the Patreon will eventually have Ads.

s an

Would you be open to do ad free tier or like make the tier 2 ad free

Aiden McCaig

No, the Patreon will always be ad free

Aiden McCaig

We are unable to do this, it’s explained in the older FAQ linked in the description. This is just a hub for paywalled content (and the Patreon content will never have ads on it ofc)

friar

Oooh, Aiden "self-Proclaimed Millionaire" McCaig wants to take hard working American dollars and flee to socialist Sweden

Noah Nielsen

Not huge on the ads on patreon side, but understand the reason they are there too. - I just want the extra episodes myself; the ad reads haven't been all that intrusive to my experience

B. LUCA

Something for ppl who rly want to avoid ads you can do is post ads free versions on the higher Patreon levels

Matt Smith

Their YouTube videos are chapter-marked, including ads, so you can selectively skip right past them.

Matt Smith

Too many people make a fuss about something like this that, in the grand scheme of things, just doesn't matter. People like you and me don't "speak out" at moments like this. They just feel loud and proud, but don't realize how ridiculous they are being over something so small. We are the silent majority. Ultimately there are many more problems in the world, especially today, than what sponsors the Lemonade Stand podcast has taken.

Matt Smith

Their YouTube videos are chapter marked, including ads, so you can skip right past them.

Matt Smith

Why isn't the response of everybody annoyed with the ads? I don't understand. People are so self-righteous and quick to judge. Let's just leave it at that and move on for christ sake, it's NOT a big deal. The world has bigger problems right now than what sponsors the Lemonade Stand podcast took.

Zr0w3n

They've already clarified that paid membership does not include ad free viewing. They literally talk about it in this video that youre commenting on.

Lemonade Stand

Wait just to clarify, there are no ads on the Patreon, there will never be ads on Patreon content! - Aiden

Hark

So I appreciate the honesty from this. I will say that for me, as someone that followed Doug to this podcast, the shift to a more traditional ad structure like I hear on other podcast was absolutely jarring the first time I heard it specifically because I’ve spent 4 years watching Doug turn down sponsorships, change how he does videos to avoid using AI art, increasing the cost per video, and stating over and over on stream that he doesn’t care about money and that he’s more than covered for what he wants. And refuse to take sponsors despite his chat literally begging him to do it (ironically or not, that was a thing for multiple streams). And I’m not saying that views can’t evolve and change, that happens for adults. However I can’t deny that emotionally it is REALLY jarring to go from that to hearing pre scripted ad that is scripted to act like you all just randomly found this awesome product, even though it’s written by an ad agency. .Again, my adult brain understands that podcasts like this need funding and that you all deserve to make money for your effort. (The amount of effort you all put into the show shines through) But man do I understand why it feels bad emotionally and is leading others to be a bit more black and white and combative with their views. And Atrioc, I’m not a viewer of yours so maybe I’m just reading something based on personality but you do come off a little bit dismissive in this video. I don’t think the issue is that “you can’t make a video because you talked about this company in the past”. It is that you built an audience that trusts you based on your strong opinions. And when those opinions seemingly change or become much less strong based on money being involved (whether that perception is “true” or not), I don’t think it’s out of line for people to wonder what has changed, or even to feel emotionally let down. Idk man, like I said I’m not one of your viewers so it doesn’t change my opinion of you. Frankly I like your more in your face, pragmatic attitude and think we need more of it in media. I guess I can just emotionally understand where people are coming from. Again, I don’t think any of you did anything wrong here, but I do think that there may need to be an understanding that when you build your brand one way and then cash in that brand in a way that feels contrary to the brand that you built, people have the right to feel upset.

Zr0w3n

Hi Aiden, as you read the comments, ill ad my 2 cents. Could we get the regular episodes on the Patreon too (with ads). Its really useful having all the videos in one place rather than having to go between YouTube and Patreon to get all the content.

Jake Molina

Why would a product never be expected to monetize itself tho?

Steven Dessers

I mean, the fact that the extra content, on patreon, is shorter then the mainepisode, with ffing ads, does not make any sense to me. For me the ads make the main episode shit. I don't get why(3!!!!!!!!) ads are even necessary. You have a patreon + adsense. Why is it always about the money? Plus you don't provide anything extra with ads. It's just a more shit, quality down. Its like watching a tv-show...

Rynnis

Just my 2 cents - watching the podcast on a podcast app is genuinely a horrific experience. There's not only the ads that the three of you do together which I can manage, but there are also Acast or whatever service manually putting ads in every 20 minutes. It's like 15 ads I listen to in an hour and that really needs to stop before I stop listening completely. Audio listeners get a worse experience and it's fundamentally unfair. I won't deny you the right to take sponsorships but it should really be one or the other before goodwill is lost Edit: Telling people "just move where you listen" feels kinda tonedeaf. I would encourage you to listen through an episode on a third party app and see if you feel proud of the product you spend a long time producing stopping and starting the way it does

Lemonade Stand

I don't think you watched or listened to this video at all LOL this is an insane comment

Lemonade Stand

I understand the perspective here, but do wanna clarify how this works a bit more. I listen back to our episodes via Apple Podcasts/Spotify most of the time, I know what it's like. The way the ads work on audio - 2 pre roll 30s ads right at the beginning - 3 mid roll 60s ads ~40 mins in - 3 mid roll 60s ads ~1hr 10 in - 3 post roll ads (forget the length, 30 or 60s) at the end of the episode that presumably no one listens to ever This is explained further in the older FAQ linked in the description, but basically you're getting ~7-8 mins of ads across 90+ mins of podcast. I'm not saying the experience isn't worse but it's not the experience you're describing and it's also (maybe unfortunately) par the course for most larger, mainstream podcasts in my experience, like ones more outside the gaming/Twitch sphere. (if they don't work this way on a recent episode, please give me timestamps in an episode because that means something is broken) - Aiden edit - if you're somehow getting MORE ads than this at the cadence you're describing, something is genuinely wrong and I can take a look at why that's the case, but it seems normal on our publishing platform end rn

Lemonade Stand

We cannot do this, it's answered in the older FAQ that I linked in the comments if you want a longer explanation - Aiden

Apollothegreat8

As long as the ads keep having bits of humor on them I’m so chill with it

Anthony Tarantola

I find it hilarious that TurboTax was the straw that broke the camel's back. If that's over the line I feel like this will be an ongoing problem of who is and isn't appropriate. Best of luck and appreciate the content.

Zr0w3n

Hi Aiden, thanks for your reply. I’ve watched that Q&A a couple of times now. Maybe I’m getting the wrong end of the stick. But my understanding of the explanation was that 1. You guys don’t want to upload the episode ad free to Patreon, which is completely understandable. I, personally, would be more than happy for the episode to be here with ads. 2. You dont want ads on Patreon content, which I would say is still upheld. Uploading the videos here without being behind a tier paywall would simply be a means to have all episodes put in one place. To be clear on my position. I would say that uploading the regular episodes with ads to the Patreon, but making them available to all people, whether they pay for the Patreon or not. (I believe you can make things available to people who simply follow the Patreon for free).

fazebill

I think turbo tax was particularly controversial due to atriocs consistent criticism of them specifically

Claiming Light

It seems like anyone reasonable (and/or of the age of majority) would be fine with an honest work for honest pay policy. The fact that you were addressing THAT idea, outside of the specific companies one might advertise for, makes me think you must have read some insane comments. For my part, I'm here because I vibe with and trust your collective intentions. I can see why people may have raised issue with the tax thing (though that didn't occur to me at the time), but your commitment to ethics and refining standards seems totally solid to me.

Charmoré Nel

I mean get that bread, but Adobe is fucking horrible hahahaha don’t care about the others, Also i think Aiden gets the most shit because he actually talks to the community, lol i think some of it should be more shared to the other two

Denis Diakonov

What’s bad about Raytheon ad-reads?

Ben B

Bait used to be believable lol

Adam Barrameda

my brother in christ, turbotax is not apple

Pfish

A Raytheon ad read would be fire

anton haeffler

Thanks for a great show! The adds certainly don’t make the show better, but I don’t mind them that much. Pretty much all podcast have adds, I just skip them. I don’t really see why some people think it’s such a big issue. Keep on the great pod through these weird times

Lemonade Stand

That's not the point of what I am saying, sorry if that was not clear - Aiden

Cory Mays

I think you did an excellent job articulating my thoughts as someone coming in as an atrioc viewer. Was disappointed to hear how dismissive he was of this as someone who doesn’t really have an expectation from Doug or Aiden to turn down an intuit sponsor.. but not practicing what you preach kinda invalidates the strong positions you take.

JayBroccs

Maybe you should put a disclaimer at the beginning of the ad reads saying you don’t support ads on podcasts so it’s clear we know you’re on our side

Adam Barrameda

Sorry — I s’pose I could be hearing you more charitably, considering you’re responding in this episode to *all* of the comments and feedback, some of which surely goes beyond reasonable/fair criticism. As a listener my own perspective was “ads are fine, but I’m shocked this one particularly awful company made it thru the vetting.” So the extended defense of ads for the majority of the business community was a jarring listen, even if it wasn’t “for” me. That said I obviously acknowledge and respect that you’ve removed that company from the rotation. Love the pod, keep goin’ and keep growin’

Make3333

I also want that, that's not in opposition to them selecting slightly less egregious ads though (and it's better now). Most ads are fine, let's just not take TurboTax or Adobe Generative AI ads. Having principles until it's even remotely slightly inconvenient is not having principles.

Toni Xue

This was a truly disappointing response. Pawning everything off on "Just because we said something bad 1 time doesn't mean we can't take a sponsor" when in reality the problem was *what* sponsor you were taking. People were using your previous times talking negatively about the sponsors as a way to point out that you *SHOULD* know better. You say several times you have lines, and that it's ultimately up to what you feel is morally right. but clearly, those morals have to be questioned if you felt it was morally right to take a TURBOTAX sponsor. Like, come on guys

Charlie

This is too harsh. It was a misstep which they acknowledge - no-one's perfect, and I respect that they clearly tried to keep away from any weasel wording about taking TT as a sponsor. I of course would prefer the show didn't take ads (it does affect the quality of the show's message & integrity in a way that is just not as relevant to a show like the Yard), and it does dishearten me a bit that they didn't see this coming, but it's totally fair that they want to monetise it, both to make it sustainable as an independent venture and to reward their effort. And I can appreciate that almost all businesses these days are shady in some way, so it can be tricky to know where to draw the line. I think it's just a friendly reminder that LS is a money-making venture with good intentions, and we won't always see eye-to-eye. I thought they provided a great apology here, removed the sponsorship, and I can't really ask for more.

Toni Xue

I don't care about the ads themselves, in fact I support them having ads. I like good, non-robotic ad reads. I don't know what part of what I said could be seen as anything but an admonishment of the specific sponsors they choose to take. I just feel like they've at this point given reason to believe their morals are very easily flexible in the face of monetary gain. Yesterday it's Adobe, today it's Turbotax, tomorrow it will be Draft Kings

Sam

Have people forgotten you can just skip ads? I don’t understand why anyone cares. Let the boys monetise their work to their own ethical standards (which tbf are higher than a lot of people’s) If a “bad ad experience” gets you upset, just take a breath; everything’s gonna be ok

Charlie

But it won't be? I think I get your point (sorry if I previously extrapolated a bit), but they've made it clear in this video they do have certain ads they won't take, and something like draft kings definitely falls into that category. To me, their policy sounds pretty reasonable. They'll do ads for conglomerates which have a lot of products (some good, some bad) but won't do ads for companies which are purely focused on something they consider problematic (gambling, AI art, etc.). Or have I misheard?

Pixelxte

I cannot believe people cared this much about the turbo tax ad. I thought for sure this was going to be about the worse ads when you guys dont have reads. Get the bag, the content is great, and no/low cost as a consumer. Keep up the good work

Noah

Crazy that the podcast is sponsored by fox news /s

Shae

I personally don't mind any of the ads on the show its a way to fund the project that I like to listen to. Hearing the 3 of you talk about TurboTax isn't enough for me to uproot my beliefs and start using it. I pay for YouTube premium and evidently the patreon but I can just skip though the ads or ignore them (it isn't something to get outraged about). I would hope that this podcasts audience is beyond that kind of thing.

Shae

Genuinely why do you care so much. I thought it was weird too, but then the ad ended and the show resumed. I can see an argument about ad reads of inherently "bad products' being harmful to the younger audiences of the show, but even that seems like a stretch to me

Calv

I think people care so much because of the fact that I don't remember (I have skipped some episodes, so I could be wrong) any negative mentions of the sponsor (for example, TurboTax) on the podcast episodes, only their own channels. (edit since patreon posted without my second half): Honestly I think the best thing for the podcast to do in terms of maintaining a more neutral stance (and probably avoiding the mentions of bias) would be making their own merch (whilst taking ads if they wish) similar to TLDR News' approach, heck even if the best start is the crappy print-on-demand merch. Another good thing TLDR News does (similar to this episode), they could do their own similar approach is maybe creating an equivalent to the TLDR News' regular editorial podcast where they cover above average negative sentiments on videos (maybe on a separate Youtube channel/free Patreon content), they're short (usually) and cover a lot of feedback which is interesting to hear and help understand further some decisions.

Matthew Smith

Surely you can understand how we find it a bit absurd that Atrioc is sincerely advocating for TurboTax after rightfully pointing out its inherently predatory business model only facilitated by corporate regulatory capture.

Nicholas Cingolani

I really love this show and honestly couldn’t care about what ads are on this show. First of all I can just skip it so there’s no issue. But even then, like sure I don’t like TurboTax as a company but I have my own critical thinking skills and I still won’t buy TurboTax after listening to the ad. For anything I think it’s kinda funny cause they’re spending money to advertise largely to a base that doesn’t like their product. Regardless I appreciate the show, the people with negative opinions are often the loudest, I’m sure there’s a bunch of people like me who really like the show and never comment ever :)

Hiileike

Perfect comment!

Jordan Gales

Started listening to lemonade stand without any knowledge of who the hosts were and had zero interest in gaming or their background fields. Stumbled into it and appreciated the fresh take of three intelligent people doing their best to learn about the world around them. Refreshing in contrast to other products posturing themselves as experts with answers. Similar to the decline of ESPN and the rise of barstool sports, albeit without the sexism. Appreciate your take on ads and don’t view you negatively for them! Please keep the content coming!

Redtiger

I just don't understand people that take content creator ads seriously. Also it's the nature of the beast, the podcast is free every week and I don't understand people that get mad when there's ads in their free content, that's how the world works.

Lemonade Stand

Look if this didn't meet your expectations then it is what it is, this is a broad response to many versions of the critique or issues that people were taking. If you want more info on what happened with TT specifically, I'm pasting my response to someone else who asked on this thread: "Aiden here -- Basically a series of awkward mistakes + me not really taking issue with the ad individually (by my own framework of how I accept ads, I was a happy customer for years and didn't really think anything of it) 1 - Our network normally posts potential sponsors in like a "pipeline" that we look at, then we respond yes/no. This applies to every sponsor request. I am normally the only person that checks this but for anything I think the other guys might have questions on, I bring it up with them 2 - For this ad, it didn't get added to the pipeline (it did for other podcasts in their network, this was just a mistake it didn't get added and sent to us, this has literally happened once and it was for this ad) 3 - We got info about the ad in Slack (that I and our producer actively check, less Doug/Atrioc), I passively assumed we must have said yes to it, not remembering we never actually did, and since I had no issue doing the ad individually I didn't bring anything up (it was also over the holidays where I was intentionally checked out) 4 - Day of the sponsor read Atrioc and Doug are seeing the ad for the first time. Atrioc assumes that we must have discussed and been down for this, and presumably feels uncomfortable speaking up about the ad because he's "late" to weighing in and other people benefit from this money that aren't him, so everyone just does the ad assuming everyone else was down At the end of the day someone should have just said something and we presumably would not have agreed do it if we had discussed it, but we didn't. But yeah that's what happened lmao." TL;DR if we had all discussed it ahead of time, we wouldn't have done it, and we have a bunch of stuff we say no to already - and we're responding to this feedback we got by dropping a 14 week deal with TT that was a lot of money. I don't really know how the response could be better than that to be honest, short of this never happening at all which is impossible to change.

Lemonade Stand

Reread the part about you saying "tomorrow it's Draft Kings" and it's like dude we've explicitly banned that type of ad the entire time, unlike the other two companies named. We're sharing what our policy has been up to this point and you're saying "what if they break that policy?" when we've stayed consistent with the stipulations we've made the whole time, and currently added a new thing to them to accommodate the feedback here. If you ever see us walk that back, crucify us 100%, I will never do an ad for Draft Kings or anything similar LOL - Aiden

Shane

I liked the Shopify guy✋😬🤚

istri aadmi

yeah, it is definitely hilarious that the ads are being shown to people who comment "recession indicator" on Big A and are not fans of turbo tax. however, the hypocrisy is also kinda ironic from the lemon party. aiden's example of how he has commented on apple being anti-consumer with their business practices but still recommends their products falls flat when you are trying to compare apple with turbo tax. it would be fair to call turbo tax's business predatory while you can't truly say the same for apple.

bee

i appreciate the work y'all put into this show. i finally deleted twitter in 2026 (yay) and that was at least a little bit easier bc i knew i would have this podcast as a tether to global political and economic topics. ads are a part of the experience of listening to podcasts - your only mistake was not introducing them for so long that people feel entitled to the content without them lmao. the transparency about it is nonetheless appreciated.

Appollochan

Get the bag boys~ I support y'all 😎

Julio Cubillas Flores

I think this video would save you a lot of grief if you published it in yt. Is there a reason you guys didnt?

Red Bear

Just don't do gambling

Lemonade Stand

Because most viewers ultimately don't care and anyone that does will be down to click a link - Aiden

William

That’s what I thought about all the hate on the done add.. I feel like acrobat is a great product and I love to use it. It all but gave me cancer when I tried to unsubscribe but it is a really useful product

Julio Cubillas Flores

That's true, though I do think people appreciate the effort in addressing community concerns in positive manner even if they don't care about the problem.

morocco1

"We got some deserved feedback" "The feedback was intense" "We all got stressed about it" "We feel bad about the situation" "We have the ability to say yes and no... we failed to do that adequately a few weeks ago" Fun fact! They don't apologise a single time in this video. It's mostly just three millionaires mansplaining their weak morals.

Bret Wilde-Webster

Touch grass. Holy parasocial, Batman. They owe us nothing. I am satisfied with their explanation, and despite never literally saying the words "I'm sorry", they seemed pretty damn apologetic to me. All of this over an ad is crazy.

Lemonade Stand

It's crazy you care enough to write all this but seemingly not enough to read the description of the post. If you just want a flat out apology, IDK what to say, I feel like this video is plenty. I don't think I did anything egregious and I've responded to the feedback on the ad appropriately. I've maintained the morals of not working with the companies I've always said I wouldn't work with the entire time, and am adjusting that based on the recent feedback to a specific company. - Aiden

Anything Random

Not sure if you're aware or not, but it's extremely bad for the youtube algorithm if you upload a video and get significantly less views than usual (this is part of why youtubers fear the 10/10 so much). It's especially bad on channels that upload infrequently. It could be weeks or months of decreased viewership to compensate for putting out a video that, as Aiden said, most people don't care about.

Anything Random

Same, I thought it was an interesting discussion for the most part, but then I read the comments and found out that I'm supposed to hate him.

Julio Cubillas Flores

I hadn't considered that. But as far as I know dont shorter vids tend to do better? As far this video went, I thought it was plenty of interesting from a business perspective and on par to the the rest of the things they cover.

Toni Xue

This feels like important context that should have been said in this video. I can't fault you guys for failures on the part of VOX, but when all you say is "We wouldn't have taken the sponsor if we morally disagreed", then I have to assume it means you are okay with what your sponsor stands for. This, at least, is a somewhat satisfying explanation, even if I think you (Aiden) should have been more attentive. Also, Draft Kings specifically was just an example of that level of bad. Not necessarily saying you would take them specifically as a sponsor

m v

Surprised I haven’t seen anyone mention this but there’s still Adobe ad reads in the episodes?? Is it like a situation where a contract was already signed for X amount of weeks and it can’t be canceled before that? Unless I misinterpreted the video and it’s only the TurboTax ads that are getting dropped (I understand why this is the case but it’s VERY funny hearing you guys mention “a certain company” like the name is Voldemort or something)

Bella Cooper

Yeah, 😅 it’s probably a contractual issue. Most sponsorship deals are fixed for a specific number of episodes, so even if something changes publicly, the ads that were already agreed upon must continue until that term ends. And lol at the Voldemort comparison the way they keep referring to “a certain company” definitely makes it sound much more dramatic than it probably is.

Cardinal

I dont know, I still am pretty upset. I understand that ads are necessary and if you take an apple, amazon, mcdonalds, or whatever other brand Ad I think I would be much less upset. In my mind those are all products that I dont really like the companies but understand their purpose. TurboTax feels outright hostile to the consumer, something that should not exist and only exist because of lobbying. And I think the reason I feel betrayed is because you are the ones that told me that. yeah you can talk about all day that apple is being awful about their appstore but im not blaming you for using an iphone or selling their ads. TurboTax feels just as scummy as gambling ads just in a different way, extorting people for money they shouldn't have to pay. I think you get that perspective now but it just felt so jarring to see you basically lie to us and now not even have the balls to say turbo tax or Adobe directly. I understand not wanting to burn bridges but god damn guys dont give us a corporate spiel explaining yourselves, just say sorry and that you'll do better. I hope yall felt uncomfortable, that's the point. Think a little. This podcast is so heavily focused on political and personal thoughts and expectations that at least for myself I'm gonna be more sensitive if one day you are talking about the abuse of financial entities and the next you are selling me their product. I still very much appreciate what you do and will keep watching but just be human. you are a business but that business involves communicating to your audience yourselves which is a lot of pressure and toll on you but it is the job you are doing.

Bella Cooper

Honestly, I feel the same way. I entered the platform without any prior knowledge about their background and simply stayed because the conversations felt genuine and curious, rather than preachy. It’s refreshing to hear people genuinely thinking out loud instead of pretending to already have all the answers. And yes, ads are just a part of the package, and they don’t really affect the quality of the content for me. I’m still enjoying the episodes and hoping they continue to produce them. 👍

Raven

My guy doesn't understand the concept of being human. Grow up.

Lemonade Stand

The explanation you seem to be looking for about Turbo Tax is right in the description of the video. That's how it happened. Adobe isn't a part of this at all, we're not dropping them,. Not really sure how any of this could be construed as corporate spiel tbh. 15 mins of being as candid as we can be about a process that we don't have to post, and we cancelled the 14 week ad deal we had. I don't really know what more you could ask for other than this never happening in the first place. - Aiden

Cardinal

First, you are right, you go into more detail about how the turbo tax ad got added into the description which I did not read originally. Totally skipped over that assuming it would be the normal filler stuff in descriptions which does ad some context about how that happened. apologies for that. However, when I say corporate spiel im talking about is the shifting of blame. You have a candid conversation about how stuff works behind the scene which is super helpful to learn about but in my eyes you are blaming the affront on that process rather than accepting responsibility. it's kidn of like watching a bad apology video, there are the videos you see where the people are more upset that they got caught than for actually doing it (that is WAY off the deep end in terms of what im relating it to but still in the same vein). It comes off as regret because of the backlash not regret of what was done. I hope this is a universal concept but sometimes with my girlfriend I need to ask "do you want me to fix the problem or do you want me to listen to the problem" and in this moment I feel like I am in the listen category of that idea. I want emotional resonance that you understand what you did was upsetting and wrong. And by the book you are correct, you literally own me nothing, you have done more than many many others would have in trying to explain the situation and I should be happy with it but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. In this video the breakdown is 0:42 - Guidelines and rules for taking ads/ Relationship with Vox 5:04 - Why are you taking ads and the expenses of the pod 7:27 - Vox providing connection and resources 8:54 - Voting for accepting ads, taking ads for companies that aren't saints 11:56 - This is not an ad free podcast 15:46 - the wrap up All of these topics are fantastic to hear about, I appreciate you sharing this stuff that you in no way had to share! I just wish there was a section in there that had a heartfelt "hey, we hear you, we fucked up, we are sorry and will do better in the future". However that is also unfair of me to ask I cannot tell you to feel a certain way as much as I want you to understand that distaste. I am just a random person on the internet with critical opinions of turbo tax and Adobe (also I know you still take ads with adobe, I think they are a shitty company and you shouldn't for their predatory practices but as I said, that's a personal feeling. If you are comfortable getting the bag to get sponsored by them then go for it). I hope that explains what I mean when I say corporate spiel. I know y'all are doing your best to make this a podcast that is both profitable and meaningful and its not totally reasonable to expect an emotional resonance with that type of entity but that's how I feel

Trundle

Would love for you to tell us one "good product" that turbo tax makes. This wasn't an issue of a huge company that has some good and some bad like Aiden's apple example. This was them supporting a corrupt company that gets all of its money from exploiting America's broken tax system. That they lobby to keep in place

Henry

You could also just not care? If you dislike a product you do not even have to watch the ad. I get why you dislike TurboTax, but your going to see ads for it everywhere and them promoting it makes a very miniscule difference in comparison to the total amount of ad runs they do in tax season. I don't really know what else to say besides its not that serious because its JUST an ad.

Robert Quinn

Crypto is one thing (if it's not meme coins), but for the love of God stay away from "prediction markets" including mother fucking Robinhood.

Tohir Tillyaev

Appreciate the transparency. Still here. Still love the show.

Dmitry Aidarov

Excellent content, keep up the good work

Kyle THK

i still really enjoy the show & am grateful you guys dropped TurboTax, but i see the same problem with them as with Adobe? I can just skip it though, not a huge deal just thought it was weird Adobe wasn’t in the same vain as TT edit: It might seem trivial but I didn’t realize you turned off adsense on YT. I think i’d rather have it to where you didn’t take Adobe & left it on, BUT for a lot of people this is a way better experience. Appreciate you all for being so transparent