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Once Upon A Time In The Middle East | Lemonade Stand - Ep. 70 Premium [VIDEO] (Patreon)

Published:
2026-08-22 19:00:10
Edited:
2026-09-25 21:59:21
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Recorded on: August 17th, 2026

TOPICS:

0:00 China's Soft Power

7:20 Kushner and the Middle East

19:59 Weed Is More Popular Than Alcohol

36:40 ASU Content Creator Follow Up

49:55 They Be On Their Phones

59:30 Anthropic Watermarking Their Text

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Comments

Brittany Coppin

Oh damn, I think I have that thing Dr. Noodle Slam was talking about… good to know, and will work on it!

justyannicc

I think the advice about content creation as a side thing is great. Its the reason I watch Atrioc. He could have said the same things as he does now but without expierence in the industry it feels less legit. I thought about it and pretty much everyone I watch as a creator, before was a normal Person with expierence in an industry. People like Atrioc, Theprimagean, T3 Theo.

justyannicc

Anthropic is not doing the watermark voluntarily! It's EU regulations and the others will have to follow suite. The fact that you did not know this does not inspire a whole lot of confidence here. You do understand that this first of all only works on a text large enough where a pattern can be detected, and second of all, if I change only a few words to synonyms, it no longer works. Also, according to the EU regulation, the detectors have to be free and publicly accessible. However, that will just lead to the people using generating text immediately checking it against the generators to see if it flags. If it doesn't, they can use it. It's a fucking arms race, and there is no way to actually make this technically feasible. I would really implore you to please look at the underlying technology. T3 Theo, for example, has a very good video about this. It does not work, and it cannot work. There is not enough data in raw text to hide a watermark sustainably. Even in images and videos where there is a lot more ways to hide watermarks because of the abundance of data, you can easily remove it. That's the exact problem. By converting a marked image from a PNG to a JPEG, watermark is gone.

Martin

My wife works in cannabis, don’t disagree necessarily but I feel like you’re missing a lot of nuance in the industry. CHS (Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome) looks a lot more like vasovagal syncope on people improperly self medicating for anxiety. But truth is there is no research on this. It’s kind of like EVALI popcorn lung which ended up being Vitamin E Acetate. There is a big argument in the industry about how the federal legalization approach causes monopolization and so that fracture in the pro marijuana market, so on top of anti marijuana, the pro marijuana movement is splitting and losing steam because of implementation

popcornspoon

Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich are the two most extreme Israeli politicians, they both say some of the most heinous shit

Steven K

Anecdotally as a Gen Z (ish) I have a lot of friends who can't smoke weed anymore. People who had snow vision for a year, people who had seizures and got asthma, and people whose anxiety induced by weed pushed them into harder drugs. I agree that black markets are so much worse and legalization is better, but I definitively agree with you guys for some form of limitation on THC levels to prevent genuine damage. Sure, alcohol is worse, but it's not like weed can't be bad either.

Sequoia

i was hitting my weed pen in the bathroom at work as they started talking about it

Chandler Farrington

Theo doesn't know shit about any underlying technology. Don't lecture people about something then reference Theo of all people

punkface

Did not know about CHS until this. GULP maybe it’s time for a T break

Zack

I will say in defense of LS, they have stated that the entire thesis of the show is to just be 3 regular white guys talking. I believe there's no research team behind these guys. It's not supposed to inspire conidence, it's supposed to raise awareness and encourage others to dive deeper into topics. Most of the topics covered can and are covered exhaustively by other platforms. Just Palestine and Gaza mentioned 3 hours long projects, a genocide in Gaza, apartheid in the west Bank, political tides in Israel, among other things. I very much enjoy the breadth of topics covered, even if it sacrifices depth & yes even accuracy to an extent. That being said, I appreciate you shining some light on the subject. I'm always thankful for the EU forcing worldwide regulations on tech companies. It's an interesting display of international interdynamics. (Lol?) In this case, I think because of how fast AI is changing, they're just trying to throw something at the wall and see what sticks.

Chen

To steel man the ASU Influencer degree, you can argue that this is the modern form of a Broadcasting Journalism degree, which was a branch on itself from a standard journalism degree. Journalism as a degree path is split between two facets; to inform the general people about topics one might not know and to inform companies about the general populace to cater to them (many journalism degree holders who do not go into journalism go into marketing for this reason fun fact!). Normally the broadcasting degree is shut from this branching path since it is much more focused on being able to gather and interpret information in a concise way to inform the common person. It also gets focused on the television which requires a lot of work to actually be watchable. But with that you also need to wait for the current broadcasters to either grow old or bad enough that your fresh skills are good enough to replace them. So broadcast journalism is very demanding on the youth to be so competent that they can just start with little experience. Kind of like professional sports, that leaves the kids without that talent to the dust. It doesn’t help with the slow death of the TV that these type of jobs are getting even rarer to get. So you really have less options in that field. You see this type of content in the modern era in YouTube videos, podcasts like this, and to make it more blatant your Big A content! But despite the bleak future for kids in that field, there is a light in the tunnel, influencing. You see companies do their best to get into that field to stay relevant. Washington Post has had a very successful shorts/tiktok feed that has been informing people on headlines. Podcasting has been crazy relevant to inform people of anything, for better and for worst (cough cough horse tranquilizer). And TikTok creators are getting “free” items to market to random people, that has gotten so popular any account regardless of size markets these items for all to see. So why not have a degree specialize in the field that has grabbed so much of our attention? You can have kids learn to navigate and utilize social media in a way to market and influence the common man to whatever company hires them! Now that might sound dystopian (I think so), but that is something that can, with enough research, be a very interesting field to invest into for the modern era. This is something we already do via the marketing degree and journalism degree. Marketing involves the deep downs into company marketing structures/strategies. Journalism involves a lot of SEO, or Search Engine Optimization to entice people to visit their site or read articles to improve viewership.

Tariq Jassim

I'm glad the public discourse is finally pushing back on the whole "weed has no potential for harm" talking point. As someone who struggled for many years with addiction and is finally free (1 year and counting!) it's always so disheartening hearing people be so dismissive of it. Regarding the AI watermark discussion, I do think its cool technology and as someone who has been following the field for years now, its super exciting to actually see someone implement it as its been discussed for ages, however as you all have pointed out the market forces and just human desires surrounding the actual real world use cases AI has really do feel like it will become irrelevant super quickly.

No Name

Isn’t anthropic specifically doing this because they need to according to EU law? Not out of their own volition?

pnott

@justyannicc In this case the part they got wrong was saying that Anthropic did this voluntarily and praising them for that.

Dan

I will not accept tinkywinky slander

Tynan Gacy

I've never felt more in-tune with Aiden as he receives blank stares than this episode. The napkin industry in crisis bit was funny but the fact it got blank stares made it 10x funnier, and I also took the Dr. Noodleslam namedrop as completely normal until it also got blank stares

Tynan Gacy

It struck me how it feels like an echo of America's own struggle with the radical right. Our Republican party has been varying levels of bad throughout the years, but only recently has the MAGA right captured it to the degree that they consistently make self-defeating, stupid decisions in order go stay in power. The political situation appears similar in Israel because regardless of Netanyahu's personal beliefs, he and his administration must be as draconian as possible (even to its own detriment) in order to appease the most brainwormed radical right wing.

Rowan Kelleher

Parasite even won at the Oscars, and was fully Korean language, so china could definitely do it - however korea already has a lot of media being consumed in america (kpop + kdramas), but parasite still popped off even before the popularity of k-content today, so maybe china can do it soon too

A

I think jumping from the watermark to "where you can actually tell if something was generated by ai" is a bit much, in that ultimately this is relying on compliance from the generator. So if I like get an open source model and run it locally with my own seed, and don't make that seed public, then watermarking based on knowing the seed really isn't going to work at all. More broadly, anything which requires knowledge of what was happening during generation (beyond having a list of possible models) would fail to something like this. For this reason, it seems like in at most a few years any watermarking-like solution (no matter how good) will just be meaningless, in that any user that wants to evade it can ensure that by locally running copies of such models. If watermarking really takes off, then I really wouldn't be surprised if someone comes up with a "homeworkGPT" product based on something like this (i.e., running a decent open source model, and making sure that input details and the rng state during generation are destroyed). One of the funny things, btw, is that the watermarking defence as described in the video completely fails to the attack of "translate to german and then translate it back to english," since the subtle distribution shift the watermarking introduces gets totally masked by the regeneration. This is so egregious because this is one of the standard ways students have told me that they use to make their ai-generated work sound less ai. The other sort of crazy thing is that, as far as I can tell, the distributional biases being used for the watermarking are based on a fixed number of keys. This kind of has to be the case, because the detector ultimately has to just ingest some text and say whether it was marked or not, and the text can come from absolutely any source, the upshot being that you can't do some session specific key or something. I'm not a really crypto guy, but cryptographically this seems like very weak security (since you are basically reusing keys ad infinitum), and eventually someone would hack it by statistical analysis. I'm not sure if that is a reasonable attack surface, in that I don't know the cost of this, and if it is viable for someone trying to, like, build a de-watermarking service, but it at least feels like someone should analyze (and publish) the economics of something like this. High level, I find watermarking to be a very weak defence, and regulations based on it (like the EU ones folks were pointing out in the comments) really seem like lip service.

SaacAttaac

The weed conversation is confusing to me bc I thought everyone understood why marijuana being schedule 1 was so stupid. It meant the federal government thought it was so dangerous it couldn’t be used even for research, so it wasn’t that weed was good, it was there weren’t studies saying either way

Milo_v2B

Weighing in on the influencer degree, I have a Bachelor of Science in "Video Game Production" which I got back into 2013. I'm not sure if this is a 1:1 parallel, but most of my classes were introduction level courses in a wide variety of topics rather than giving us any useful instruction in anything specific. I took 3 ActionScript classes, 3 3D modeling classes, 1 level design class, 1 photoshop class, audio design class, etc etc. We never got deep enough into anything to get us an actual job in video games. Most of my classmates are working in fields unrelated to video games now. I feel like it mostly just gave me a taste of every discipline in the field (I ended up choosing programming) and I had to go and seek out the gaps in my education myself while still trudging through "Business of Video Games" and "Color Theory". It was all stuff that made me a really well-rounded worker in the creative space, but I would've NEVER gotten a job if I just stuck to the curriculum. One thing it did REALLY well though is force us to get reps in. The last year of my 4 year degree was creating a new game every 10 weeks.

Christopher

@Zack I agree with your defense of LS in general, there is such a diverse range of complex topics that the guys can't be experts on them all nor should they. But somehow I really disliked how they handled this specific topic. Since the Antrophic blog post literally starts with this paragraph: "Future Claude models will generate text that contains a watermark. This is a way of determining the likelihood that Claude was involved in writing the text, and we, along with several other major AI providers, are implementing this change to comply with the EU AI Act." Since I read the blog post (I guess LS based the segment on a secondary source not the blog post) before the episode it felt than a bit strange to talk about how nice it would be to have regulation forcing this and how Antrophic is doing this as a cool thing because of values (even tough one should give Antrophic credit for being open about this). Since this is a literal try at doing what they ask for, so I think the discussion could have gone into a more interesting direction. Maybe I'm also biased as a european to get some credit that our regulator's are at least trying to made laws for emerging technologies (if the concrete laws are good of course is up for debate, but to me it feels to me like at least they are trying).

Bryan

39:30 this some Cali specific stuff of everyone having a social media for their job

Bryan

Doug did such a great job with the Anthropic watermark discussion

KD

Atrioc people smoke 45% thc in joints now days. In vape carts it’s extremely common to see live resin blends at 80%+ and liquid diamond blends at 90%+

UnderSeaAnemone

Hasn’t Korea had a really really robust media sector for a long time though? Like I watched Old Boy a few years ago and that was a really good movie. That came out in 2003. I think China just doesn’t have an equivalent domestic market. I think they mentioned it on the main episode, but in popular Cdrama tends to be historical fiction, and that just doesn’t export well.

Rowan Kelleher

I'm not sure about how large the media sector has been historically, but they've had many billion dollar films recently, so maybe now they will start to break into western markets

Bird

Yeah I have a close friend with a disease he got from smoking too much weed called like canaboid hyper sensitivity CHS or something like that. Basically, he gets really bad stomach aches and will eventually start vomiting when he smokes a lot of weed because he fried the cannabis receptors in his body. (At least that's my understanding as someone with neither medical knowledge or the disease myself so take that with a grain of salt.) Luckily him quitting smoking seemed to stop any major symptoms, and it doesn't negatively impact the rest of his life as far as he's aware unlike some of what you mentioned. What was interesting to me is when he first got it the doctors had no idea what it could be and basically did a episode of a medical drama where they kept misdiagnosing him with related diseases until finally figuring it out it was this rare condition. Supposedly it used to be stupid rare, but due to changes in habit and the different chemical formulas of weed it is becoming increasing common, where if you go in with similar symptoms today it will be one of the first things they check for. Edit: I typed out this reply right before MAGA Aiden and I'm pretty sure he is talking about yhe same disease with the nausea. One other thing to add was for about the first 2 years after diagnoses he kept convincing himself he could go back to smoking, would get the side effects, and then have to quit again. It was absolutely an addiction in at least the psychological sense idk the science on physiological.

Zinbhe

Do you think the content creator degree teaches you to go pee before recording your podcast?

Paradox

Is it me or is Aiden’s audio joining us from the other roomv

Maxwell Acklin

Personally, I turned 21 about 6 months ago, and in that time I have had alcohol about 7-8 times. However, I have smoked weed a couple times a week since turning 21.

Yair

You said that you don't understand the Israeli POV. Would you like to interview an Israeli?

Festus Five

was NOT expecting the atrioc pissing section

Benjamin Fields

Is Aiden claiming smart phones are today’s Roman coliseum

Nick Rapier

This might be after the time period doug was talking about, and Im not sure about england. But in 18th century ireland, guinness was introduced to reduce the amount of whiskey and gin consumption.

Nick Rapier

Also if aitrioc would lay off the ale and start drinking gin he wouldnt have to pee himself during the main ep's.

Cade Murphy

Taxing weed by potency would essentially tax the poorer smokers. Weed is far more complicated than just thc, other cannabinoids and terpenes play a role in the effects. Lower quality products tend to be much higher in thc %, whereas the higher quality products focus more on the terpenes and other cannabinoids, resulting in a 10-20% reduction in thc %, while providing a more intoxicating high

Frank

I do find it a LITTLE on the nose, that 'Once Upon A Time In The Middle East' is coming to cinemas on September 11

roach

My sister got really, really addicted to weed. Like, she could not go without it a day without feeling actual withdrawal symptoms. She even got pushed onto cigarettes and still smokes nicotine vapes to this day. Thankfully she's for the most part clean outside of vapes. It's something that isn't really touched on.

G4MM4

Do you guys watch at Aiden volume or Atrioc volume?

ThatDanMan

Claude must not have told Doug that Anthropic is doing it due to forced regulation.

Thure Christianson

There is a leak in the studio, saw this in the main channel video too, at 59:23 in this vid it looks like something falls past the camera in the same way.

Lemonade Stand

We're getting it fixed, hilarious that people can even see it on camera - Aiden

Lemonade Stand

not even kidding i have had this exact thought - Aiden

Thure Christianson

I only saw one drop per main/patreon episode but thought it was odd lol. Hope its a quick fix for you guys. Also the episode was great I only saw the leak because im pretty focused on the conversation, just not usually a commenter.

CC Loo

For all the jokes they make about how they can say whatever they want about Anthropic and the sponsors don't influence the content, it is crazy they framed the watermark discussion in the most pro anthropic way possible, while completing ignoring the EU regulations that led them to make that decision.