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The summons truly was the last straw: Maut-mai packed her bags and made plans to leave. Suria encouraged her, silently hoping that she wasn't making a mistake - at least if Maut-mai was soul-killed, she would be back in the next loop, or at least Suria thought that was how it worked. Or maybe Darkmoon would let the other woman go and she was worrying over nothing.

For her part, Suria wasn't willing to take the risk, so she needed to attend the meeting. She put on her Darkmoon student uniform for the first time this cycle and gathered her books and supplies, just as if she was an ordinary student.

As she walked toward the Hall of Thrones, Suria realized there was a strange parallel: she had originally wanted to enter the castle so that she could gather basic information about the professors, and now she was being summoned to speak to them directly. The Hall of Thrones hadn't been very important to any of the cycles so far, but it mattered as an administrative center... another thing to add to the long list of subjects to investigate if she survived this.

Her identification pin allowed her to enter the front entrance, unlike every other loop. Suria ignored her knowledge of the layout and instead walked down the main hall until she reached the double doors, which parted before her... and revealed an empty room. She looked around the circular table and the portraits looming on the walls, yet didn't see the professors themselves.

"You looking for something?" There was a man sweeping the marble floor on the other side.

"Uh, I was supposed to meet the professors..." Suria gestured vaguely at the portraits.

"They don't exactly meet in here for normal things. I think I saw two of the thrones in the conference hall. Head back and take the second left."

Suria thanked him, retraced her steps, and found the proper door. It opened into a much smaller chamber, a square room with a fine table and comfortable-looking chairs. Yet she was much less relaxed here than in the cavernous main chamber, because this one included two of the Darkmoon thrones.

"Suria Northbrook." Professor Rhamsolk had been completely motionless until he saw her, then he gestured at a chair, which shifted back for her. "Welcome."

"Where's your friend?" Professor Abouric asked. He had been looking over a few papers and still hadn't looked up at her.

"Maut-mai said she didn't think she could do this," Suria explained from the doorway. She had decided that there was no point trying to lie, so she would just have to discover the consequences. Staying by the door probably wouldn't make any difference, but she felt better having the option open.

Neither professor looked upset or surprised; they merely exchanged a glance. Suria didn't know either of them well, and one was literally a statue, so she couldn't begin to interpret what it meant.

"Where's Professor Rei?" Suria asked, intentionally using the wrong name.

"Lia Huen Rei is dealing with other business," Professor Rhamsolk told her. "Now sit. I insist."

Steeling herself, Suria sank into the offered chair and waited. Professor Abouric seemed to have replaced his floppy hat with another one that had a red brim instead, but otherwise was exactly as she remembered. He set down his papers, laced his fingers, and smiled at her.

"We wanted to give you some basic preparation for your task," he told her, "but you do have the right to refuse. Let's address that now and save us time. Are you still willing to help us search for criminals using forbidden time magic?"

"I think I have to try," Suria said. She had considered trying to say more, to justify herself by what she had seen, but thought that there was a risk of doing too much and seeming suspicious. "But I have to admit, it's scary. If I understand how the time magic works... can't they do this infinite times? It seems impossible to stop them, if they can try over and over again."

"I can understand how it might feel that way to you," Professor Abouric said with a sympathetic smile, "but it isn't so impossible. Your view is common but frankly I think it reflects a... lack of imagination, shall we say."

"You don't need to be concerned about the exact methods," Professor Rhamsolk told her sharply. "What we need from you is to observe your fellow classmates. For that reason, I require you to join my Arcane Tides of History class in the coming term."

Suria managed to keep her expression neutral, since the name should have been only as unfamiliar as any other class. She hadn't heard of that one in any previous cycle, though she might have seen the name once in the full course catalogue.

"Of course I can," Suria agreed, "but I don't understand. How will that help?"

"This class is only offered on a sporadic basis," Professor Rhamsolk explained. "It would never, under ordinary circumstances, be offered during this term. The class will be likely to lure them out, but they'll be suspicious of me, hence we require additional eyes."

"I still don't... if you changed your plan and a new class appears, won't that make them suspicious?"

Professor Rhamsolk's marble lips twisted in irritation, but before he could respond, the other professor spoke quietly. "There's no point recruiting students if we give them nothing," he said, then shifted to lean toward Suria. "The first thing you have to understand is that, while this is new to us, we cannot know for certain how many times the loop has repeated. Our targets might have done this a dozen times, a hundred, or a thousand. I trust you understand that?"

"I think I do," Suria said.

"For that reason, the only viable strategies are those that target multiple possibilities simultaneously. Simple probability would suggest it is more likely that we aren't in the first loop, but it remains possible, so we still need to attempt the simplest methods. Those who are overconfident in their invulnerability will tend to indulge in extremities they wouldn't ever try within the real timeline."

"Loopers are arrogant sadists," Professor Rhamsolk said bitterly. "If they don't start out that way, eventually they can't help themselves. The spiraling path."

"We also need to consider more experienced loopers," Professor Abouric continued. "Logically, if you had infinite retries, wouldn't you attempt achievements with unpredictable elements, or that could be overcome with repeated efforts? Thus you'd expect loopers to make unusual decisions, deprioritizing the long term that doesn't exist for them. You tend to see patterns that reflect trying something over and over again, such as brute force attempts at challenges that can only be tried once."

Suria nodded as if that wasn't exactly what she had been doing with Magical Analysis In Depth. Part of her was still anxious that this was all a set-up to confronting her, but she was starting to believe they were sincere. It didn't make her very comfortable to learn how thoroughly they'd thought about this, but she had to admit, she'd do the same thing in their position.

"Finally we have the veteran loopers," Professor Abouric finished, then gestured to his colleague. "Which is where the new course comes in."

"They've tried every class a dozen times." Professor Rhamsolk brought his palm down against the table forcefully. "They grow bored. They've experienced everything. Perhaps this is the first time I've offered Arcane Tides of History, or perhaps it is the hundredth. Perhaps they were fearful at first, but after multiple repetitions they grow complacent. Either way, they can be found out."

Logically they could also have tried it and seen the plan fail a hundred times, but Suria didn't bring that up, because that might go from seeming afraid of forbidden time magic to arguing for it. Plus, if she was someone facing the threat of a time loop, she would try to come up with more contingencies and never tell anyone about them.

It seemed like they were waiting for her to say something, though, so Suria decided to pursue something else she was curious about. "Professor Rhamsolk... do you have personal experience with this? I thought forbidden time magic was only... I don't know, a historical thing."

"Far from it," he answered in a grim tone. "Before we overthrew the corrupt aristocracy in the Republic of Junn, there were terrible atrocities. One of the old nobles sacrificed a great many workers in order to try to prevent his own fall, and we believe they likely repelled our assault through dozens of loops. But their responses grew too precise, too optimized, relying on too much information they could not possibly have known. We realized that it must have been time magic... and one loop it didn't go so well for them."

"It's a question of when to stop," Professor Abouric added quietly. "If someone controlling time magic is careful enough, they only need to succeed once, and indeed it is very difficult to prevent that. But the possibility of endless attempts for a perfect solution is also a temptation, and if they have any weakness in mind or soul... some failures can only happen once."

"But you don't need to worry about that," Professor Rhamsolk suddenly blustered. "The spies we saw in Convocation Hall were hardly strong, not even battlemages, and there was no sign they had soul armor. These loopers will be much easier to handle, which is why we risk bringing a student into this."

"I'll help if I can," Suria told them. Sitting in silence seemed dangerous, so she pushed forward with the next question. "Thank you for explaining so much to me, but that sort of strategy... isn't my decision, right? What do you actually need from me?"

To her surprise, the professors looked at one another again, then Professor Rhamsolk rose to his feet. He nodded to his colleague but not to her before striding out of the room, his marble shoes heavy against the floor. Suria felt a little more comfortable with him gone, especially when Professor Abouric relaxed in his chair and smiled slightly.

"My colleague wanted to be clear on the fundamentals," he explained, "but I will be handling the rest of your temporal orientation. You can relax, Suria. This isn't a test, and we don't expect you to do everything on your own. You're just another layer of our strategy."

"I'll try," Suria said - honestly, though not in the way she hoped it seemed. "I'm just not confident I can handle all this. I mean, I barely know anyone."

"But they might know you much better than you think, and that alone would be revealing. If anyone comes to you with information they couldn't possibly know, they might have gotten it from a previous iteration of the loop. And in that case, you have to ask yourself: what else have they done in those previous loops? They might have tortured the information out of you, or they could have befriended you solely to gain that information. Anyone bearing personal information should be considered less trustworthy, not more."

"It's really scary to think like that... what if somebody comes to me and says something different?" As she spoke, Suria hoped that her nervousness could be explained by a normal student in her position. "What if they say this is the first loop, or that they need my help? Or, I don't know, say they don't want to be in the loop anymore and want to end it?"

"Think carefully about this," Professor Abouric said gently. "Loopers are free to attempt any strategy, and an intelligent one would. If someone came to me saying, 'oh, I'm a poor student who just wants help' I'd have to assume they were trying to gain an advantage against me for future loops. Even if not, I'd have no way to confirm."

The professor was speaking kindly, yet Suria still shivered under his gaze. She wanted to push further, but she was likely already risking herself if the thrones were that paranoid, so she needed to switch to a more general tactics. Before she could gather herself, Professor Abouric saw her fear and gave her an encouraging smile.

"You don't need to worry about all those details," he told her. "We'll just ask you to do a few things for us and keep your eyes open for potential loopers among the students."

"What do I do if I see something that's just sort of suspicious?" Suria asked. "How do we know they're actually loopers? Surely you can't just... kill people."

"Of course we won't act without justification," Professor Abouric said. "That was one of the things we discussed, amongst all the thrones and the Archthrone. Aside from the obvious moral angle, thoughtless retaliation leads you open to counter-strategies. We agreed to a policy of preponderance of evidence: we'll observe a potential looper enough to be reasonably certain before acting."

"There isn't any magical test you can do to be sure?"

"Unfortunately, there is nothing of the sort, for reasons that would be too complex to-"

"Could you try to explain?" Suria hadn't meant to ask that question and felt a stab of fear that her curiosity had gotten the better of her, but to her surprise Professor Abouric smiled more broadly.

"It isn't really relevant," he told her. "But you're a born student, aren't you?"

"I can do a little magic," Suria said quietly, "and I've read some books about it. But I still feel like I'm just scraping the surface... I want to understand it all."

Apparently her sincerity came through, because Professor Abouric seemed more amused than suspicious. He settled back in his chair and laced his fingers together on the table in front of him.

"Do you understand how humans develop mana senses?" he asked.

"Not in detail," she said, trying to forget all her lessons. "I know it was difficult for me, but even harder for some others. Back in the village... I hope this doesn't seem too provincial, but people would try to work with the real elements to awaken their senses. Sitting by the fire for fire magic, that sort of thing."

"That's hardly provincial; it's still one of the standards. But you see, not all magic is so simple. You came to us as a healer, which is actually more impressive than someone who comes to the university with the ability to cast flame or lightning. That's likely part of why you received your scholarship. Can you remember back to how you developed those senses?"

It had been a gradual thing, so Suria needed to analyze her memories carefully. "I started out as an apprentice. I couldn't use any magic, so I just helped with mundane healing. Over time... I started to feel a difference between sick people and healthy ones, and it developed from an instinct to a mana sense."

"Yes, magical senses often develop based on discrepancies. But now consider time." Professor Abouric raised a finger and traced it along the table. "The problem is that time is all around us constantly. We are similar to, if you'll forgive an old parable, fish who don't know what water is. Developing time magic is like trying to develop a sense for healing when you've never seen a sick person."

"But..." Suria was eager to know more and had to restrain herself. "I understand what you're saying. But there are other kinds of non-forbidden time magic, aren't there?"

"I love having such curious students, but I'm afraid that's a subject for a much more advanced class. If you can help us with this... it could be fun to talk about one day."

She was so close to answers that could be useful to her, but Suria judged that pushing on this issue would be an unacceptable risk. Even if she had deflected some suspicion from her, asking "How do I get better at time magic?" would still be suicidal. Since she had exhausted the questions she thought she could safely ask, she sat back and nodded.

"Now, let's discuss your classes." Professor Abouric shuffled his papers and set one down in front of her. "You're required to take Foundations of Modern Spellcraft, and I appreciate you joining Rhamsolk's Arcane Tides of History. I'd also like you to take one of my classes - Introduction to Hazardous Naturalism. Don't worry, it's not as dangerous as it sounds."

"Okay," Suria said, as if she had a choice.

"Three classes is enough, but you can take a fourth if you want. Is there anything you're particularly passionate about?"

"Most of my skills are in healing, so I hoped to join the Medicine department..."

"I'm afraid you'll need a higher runic capacity for that, at least for now. Anything else?"

Pretending not to know her limitations had been a ploy to buy time, of course. There would already be enough tension and lies she needed to keep straight, so Suria judged that she should pick a subject that she hadn't studied very much, so she would actually be unfamiliar with it. There were multiple possibilities, but she decided to go with a subject that wouldn't expose her to professors involved with the conspiracy.

"Evocation," she said eventually. "I can cast a few spells, but I don't think I really understand the deeper theory of those spells. Is there a... more academic class I could take?"

"Well, you're going to like Anstell." Professor Abouric smiled oddly and scribbled something down on her sheet of paper. "Those four courses should be a good foundation for your education. I hope the additional duties won't be too difficult for you, and that this is a less traumatic beginning to your time at Darkmoon University."

"But... does it matter?" Suria asked. Unless she was pretending to be stupid, she would have to wonder. "Isn't everything I do likely to get wiped out by the time magic? I volunteered to help, but I didn't really think about what it meant..."

"The end of a time loop is a complex subject, but those within it generally create tension on the magic. If they are gone, the loop will collapse, so eventually our actions will be permanent." The professor shook his head ruefully. "Now, if the two spies really were loopers, we can't collapse the loop this instance. But you've seen what we'll do in this loop, so you can trust what we'll do in others. We'll continue our strategies until they're all gone and eventually we'll be able to have you as a proper student."

"Hopefully so." Suria bowed to him, got up, then bowed again. He didn't seem to require anything else, so she left the Hall of Thrones and just tried to keep all her thoughts and emotions under control.

Even though she had been expecting something along these lines, it still intimidated her to hear everything the professors were doing to target loopers. They were preparing for veterans who had been fighting them for hundreds of loops, but this was Suria's first time.

Comments

Anotherb Account

Ahaha okay, I'm in. I assume this is the thing you said you didn't think anyone had done well, and I agree.

GenericName#4528

I think making obvious plans for the future, particularly in loops where the thrones don’t know she knows about the time loop, will be key to deflecting suspicion in the future. I wonder how many loopers they will discover this loop.

AnythingAtAll

In a world where time magic and time loops are a known quantity, it would logically be scary how the top mages are prepared for it. I can think of a lot of time loop protagonists that are instantly dead in this universe. Like, imagine Tom Cruise's character in Edge of Tomorrow in this scenario. He's dead in loop 5, tops.

Doc_harry

> at least if Maut-mai was soul-killed, she would be back in the next loop Does this mean soul kill only worksnon loopers? How would that work?

pldl

It works on everyone, but the mechanics of the time loops mean that within the time loop, it will only permanently kill time loopers (unless the ritual ends and there is no next iteration.)

Glass2222

Oohhh! Nice! Thank you for the chapter (:

Doc_harry

That will depend on the actual mechanics of the time loop, isn't it? Like is this one like MOL or TYOA, for example. In the first one, if it is like what Zorain & Zach thought the loop was like earlier in the series, then Maut Mai wouldn't come back in future loops. If it is like what was the actual mechanism in MOL, then she still wouldn't come back in future loops from loopers' pov but would actually be alive in the real world. If it's like TYOA, soul kill wouldn't do anything to her, like you said. Those were just examples, actual mechanism in this specific novel will likely be entirely different. Bu whatever the mechanism, how can Suria know it? She doesn't know much about the time magic or the mechanism of the time loops to make assumptions like this

DrBubblez

How would they know about the loop in the next iteration? Maybe they left some kind of soul marker on the one they killed

sarahlin

The methods discussed in this chapter are one of the things I hope that I hope readers will enjoy in the long term, so I hope people like this sort of thing. ^-^ There are lots of possibilities for conflict between characters both inside and outside loops that I want to explore.

sarahlin

Suria is just guessing at this point, but she is indeed thinking along the lines pldl explained.

GenericName#4528

Two other things I noticed. The professors clearly have contingencies for dealing with soul armour, possibly attacking the mind instead. I wonder if soul armour becoming common would lead to another loop with a lot of deaths as people become reckless. Also the mention of loopers creating ‘tension’ in the loop sounds like they are part of the structure of the loop. So while the loop might be able to stretch further with fewer of them in it, it could also become less stable and more likely to collapse.

Exarion

> "...at least if Maut-mai was soul-killed, she would be back in the next loop, or at least Suria thought that was how it worked." I thought killing someone's soul meant they DO NOT come back even in the next iteration of the loop?

Tanna

Only for the loopers. Only they get their souls replaced with ones from the future, meaning they die if they receive a dead soul. Soul killing doesn't inherently kill you in the past without a time loop.

Keid

The question is: How often have they become aware enough to employ this same strategy in past loops? We can't really know, but the other loopers reported the early disappearances, and Suria thinks she might've seen Arcane Tides of History in the catalog before. Do they eventually pick up on something and try a version of this strategy every loop? Is the proposal of plans to make a loop enough to enact if in some loops? it's hard to say. Suria might eventually want to figure out a way of creating a big enough ruckus to pull the thrones out of their meeting every loop without implicating herself just to set herself up as a repeated looper-hunter.

Tanna

I like how this time loop system has natural difficulty escalation. For now, the calm study loops are the most common and dangerous ones like this only happen due to loopers doing crazy things. But as more and more corpses begin appearing in the city at the start and the loop itself extends, it's going to get progressively harder to keep the authorities from going on alert.

Keid

I mean, the way that it seems to work is that the souls of loopers are shunted backwards to their bodies ar the earlier point in the timeline, but everything else up in the starting timeline remains unchanged. But if the magic tries to shunt back a soul and that soul doesn't exist it creates like a magical 404 error and that person can no longer loop. The magic at least doesn't seem to be actively destroying and recreating the rest of the world and every soul every loop, so if doesn't seem like there should be any way to remove a non-looper from future loops without more time magic.

Accursed

My guess is the girl who claimed to make the best parties, some of the Akrashics, and Jeilin for the emotional impact

Tanna

Oh hey I've seen you on the Practical Guide to Sorcery patreon, assuming you're the same Keid

Exarion

Ah. This makes sense. But then, killing a non-looper's soul would still be permanent in the last iteration of the loop, so hopefully the professors only do soul-kills when they have absolute proof. Otherwise they're just indiscriminately murdering people

Anotherb Account

Yeah it's clever, I'm entirely excited. Especially as I've been on a loop binge like everyone else and I'm feeling some meta

GenericName#4528

I somewhat doubt it will be Jeilin yet. She can’t take these classes because she locked hers in before the start of the loop if I remember correctly.

Exarion

I get what you mean. But I think Tanna's explanation is more congruent with the story. A "soul not found" would probably mean "we can't replace this soul because we have nothing to replace it with." But I guess it makes more sense that the looper's soul is replaced with a dead one

Exarion

Now, isn't a non-looper who is aware they're in a loop, not just as likely to change their behaviour and do strange things? In essence, won't they be easy to mistake for a looper? For example, why would I bother overworking myself if I'm certain the consequences would be reset, whether or not I'll remember in the next iteration? And especially if I'm certain this won't be the last iteration. I also wonder about the motivation behind having a death sentence as the punishment for a looper. It all feels like law-backed jealousy, especially since people seem to know that some loopers can very well be passengers, just like Suria and co.

DrSubterfuge

Yeah that's a good point. I can also imagine a middle stage where someone who is soul killed leaves a corpse in a place that causes immediate suspicion (or otherwise adversely impacts the timeline) if another looper doesn't interfere somehow in the beginning of the loop.

Storyflower

it is unfathomable for me that the focus of the professors is on the loopers and NOT on the CAUSE of the time loop. The loopers are also victims after all. Further, they are already aware/suspect that there are more than two people that are looping.

CherMi

They're assuming that loopers would know about the loop and probably point to either the mechanism or some other clues. At least that's how I interpreted it.

Gustav

There should be an opportunity to explain away Lirngelf here. After Adwyrma's antics he did something that made the professor's suspicious and he got soul killed despite being a non-looper. Maybe she could say he got recruited along with her and Maut-mai but protested too strongly. The fear of ending up like him could even be used to explain if she's forced to do something anti-looperer this iteration.

Tanna

If he's not a looper then he wouldn't permanently die

alcath

Hm, I was guessing that it is that one can't touch the ritual setting up the loop, and that one must focus on the looping participants if you want to destabilize things from inside a loop. We don't know the mechanics of establishing loops, but my guess would be something like the loop begins after the ritual that causes it, so the ritual in question isn't accessible to anyone within a loop because it has concluded and established the loop prior to a point in time that anyone could ever access.

Gustav

We don't know that, depends on the mechanics of how the loop works.

Keid

I mean, I feel kind it's a few things at once. 1. Previously the thrones seemed to allude to the idea that the energy requirements to form a loop are very high, even by their standards, as such it doesn't seem plausible that the people within the loop are anything but willing agents intentionally pursuing a goal. People wouldn't normally spend this much energy on just random victims. Like, if someone in a tank shoots at your home, and then you find a bunch of other people driving tanks around your home town, no reasonable person would assume that someone had imprisoned a bunch of random university students within military vehicles and left them to figure it out, they're going to assume that it is a military invasion. 2. There is also the psychological factor that the professors mentioned in this chapter and Suria has independently observed. With time loops being an established phenomenon of sorts in their world it seems like it is established and, "known," that anyone who has been in a loop for too long will eventually start acting as if people outside of it aren't real and will start acting like a sociopath. There is probably some survivorship and selection bias in this being established as a universal truth, some people are less susceptible, but any time you replay and try to game social interactions for the best outcome, you are in some sense manipulating them, regardless of your intent, and each act of manipulating people that way makes the next act of manipulation both logistically easier and makes it seem more natural. And even if you try to realize that risk and actively try to avoid it, how do you even do that? You're going to gain an unfair advantage on anyone you repeatedly talk to in loops and if you try to avoid interacting entirely, you are again going to gradually stop treating non-loopers as real people in a different way. That, presumably, is why they call it the spiraling path, because while people can resist to greater or lesser extents, the conventional knowledge is that they always end up the same way. 3. There is just the pragmatic explanation they give Suria. As a result of the power dynamic between looper and non-looper, the non-looper must always assume that the looper has gamed things out repeatedly and is only telling them what they want to hear. There really is no way to trust someone in that scenario, since trust is built on either a pattern of behaviors (which you can't establish from your PoV) or on consequences for breaking the trust, which a looper can't be subject to.

Exarion

There's no way to trust anything a random person tells you as well. To me the logic of "a looper is a bad person" and any reasoning path to get there that I've seen so far are even more faulty than, "playing video games with gun violence causes people to re-enact it in real life." It is an irrational fear. Yes, there's the chance you, a random non-looper, are being manipulated. But why do you think you're the centre of the looper's universe? What are the chances that a looper would waste their time on manipulating you? And if they do, have you wondered why they didn't try to harm you instead? I get the ego part of it, for example, I wouldn't like to hear I was nudged away from the Water Society in Maut-Mai's shoes. But she has been manipulated into doing things by non-loopers as well, as observed by Suria. Human ego doesn't like the idea of another human playing god over us, and I understand the emotional reaction, but IMO the fair, logical reaction would be an investigation into what is being done or has been done by the suspects. Especially since the only "solution", the soul-kill, is effectively murder and could still kill an innocent non-looper permanently or an innocent looper like Lingerlf (I don't even know why I still remember his name, given that he's been dead for months from my POV 😅) BTW, this is not a criticism of the story, but rather the lawmakers in the story itself😅

Keid

Oh, hi! Yeah, that is me over there too, and I recognize your name as well. I just made a post on Azalea's forum the other week about how it is funny that Sarah started writing a story about a young mage who is hungry for knowledge, growing very fast in a magic system that is based on glyphs and geometric shapes, and at the same time Azalea starts writing about a soulhome (trying to phrase that in a way that avoids all spoilers.)

Exarion

You guys have just made me go add that book to my reading list. Contragulations on turning me into a shut-in

Doorda

Well they assumed the loop was set up by Drazen. So they are interested in removing the actors that they think are working for him. They would have heard his proposal for the time loop and that would have had multiple actors in it.

Reed R Gale

It's interesting how this kind of change largely stems from one major choice difference. Like, in most time loop worlds, time magic (or time macguffins) are presumed impossible, which puts the protagonist in an unusual circumstance. And here, it is a known quantity. Very interesting escalation that illustrates the dangers of showing your hand, and a big opportunity here. But some loopers are definitely dying this iteration. Probably a few of the party-ers. Which I find kind of sad, since they've essentially done nothing wrong except an excess of excesses.

Reed R Gale

That sounds waaaay too risky. If not for me or you, then for Suria. This seems a one-loop opportunity because she can only pull off being unaware for so long.

Keid

After they revealed this much of what the spiraling path is, I feel like Xuhriha might have (accidentally or otherwise) figured out the way to avoid it. Like, it honestly seems like Xuhriha might be the only one in this loop who was intentionally included, because she might have the perfect mindset for avoiding the pitfalls of looping, almost what you would drill into someone to try to keep them sane and away from the spiraling path. I am speculating that the spiraling path is a tendency to stop treating non-loopers as people over the course of a loop. If you repeatedly interact with someone, and you want somethin from them in any way, you're naturally going to tailor your behavior with them to getting anything you may want from them, and it grows increasingly optimized and at the same time increasingly rote and unrewarding. As you learn people's patterns given an exact situation, exact mindset, and exact time, they become more like automatons to you who only dispense what you need once you give them the correct sequence of actions. And these things are hard to avoid even with the best of intentions once you go through enough loops. If you try to avoid using your inherent advantages over other people in your interactions by avoiding interacting with them then you create psychological distance that de-realizes them as completely human anyway. You have to get all of your social needs met by other loopers, and that creates a very distinct in-group and out-group. And you still probably can't really pursue many fixed goals without getting the help or interacting with people, and because you've created all of that psychological distance, you're even more likely to view people as resource-dispening automatons when you do interact. So how do you avoid all this? Well, you try to act as randomly and inconsistently as possible. You try to change as many of the condition surrounding yourself as you can every time until every interaction you have is as fresh for you as it is for everyone else, you act on whims and avoid anything comfortable and familiar like the plague. And, on top of that, you probably also try to avoid interacting with most other loopers, both to avoid the in-group effect and to keep yourself from getting sucked down the spiraling path in their wake through them normalizing that way of thinking to you. Maybe you vet and test loopers who also are able to keep viewing non-loopers as people to gather allies on the non-spiraling path? And, presuming she is the necromancer, maybe she is also going into this with a unique goal that can only really be ethically pursued in a time loop? We don't know what exactly necromancy is in this universe, or what happens to souls after body-death, but, given that it can involve graveyards, but only when weak, I'm guessing that necromancy involves finding detached souls floating around free after the death of the body, and then using or manipulating those souls in some way, and that weak necromancer require corpses to follow the link from their magic organ for the purposes of finding the souls to begin with. If it is painless for the detached soul, and the soul is just going to be restored the next loop, a timeloop could be proposed as a means of developing safe and ethical techniques that are adjacent to necromancy without anyone having to do long-term harm in the process of figuring it out. tl;dr, I think Xuhriha is secretly the protagonist to a parallel novel titled The Throne of Bone: How to Ethically Become an Archlich

sarahlin

Everyone keep in mind that you're reading what the professors are saying to someone they think is an innocent student caught up in all this, not what they're saying amongst themselves.

GenericName#4528

They probably are focusing on the cause of the loop but they aren’t telling Suria that because they don’t need her help with it. They did say they would try and find the ritual but from the sound of it they view killing all the loopers as another way of ending the loop. As for the loopers being victims as the professor said this chapter they don’t think they can give any looper the benefit of the doubt.

GenericName#4528

I don’t think it’s a completely irrational fear given they apparently have several examples of people using timeloops to do awful things.

GenericName#4528

They might still get her if she never concerns herself with the future.

V0lcano

Having a network of people that work against all loopers is a stroke of genius. The Thrones are such a different enemy to Suria's fellow loopers. They reintroduce uncertainty that only having other loopers does not; with the loopers it is quite possible to analyse their behaviour over time. With the Thrones, Suria is always looking over her shoulder because there's no feedback - either she escapes suspicion enough to not be killed, or she's dead forever. Any planning or strategising they do regarding loopers is so far out of her ability to spy on that it would be suicidal to try. They also act as an incentive for loopers to not act like monsters - become a monster and you've got the Time Police on your ass. I think that's a far more realistic reason for a time looper MC to come out the other end of the loops as a reasonable person. It's technically possible for the threat of the Thrones to be trivialised, but only when the MC becomes strong enough to hold her own against them, even when surprised. Which I imagine means being at least as strong generally or having some insane perception spell up 24/7.