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Holly (Patreon)

Published:
2023-09-06 04:49:13
Imported:
2026-06
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Content

In our latest book episode, exclusive to the Barrens, the Losers hang out with Holly. Together, they discuss why Stephen King loves this character so much, the political overtones that ostensibly fuel the narrative, the macabre villains at the center of the story, and whether or not this feels like Holly's story. One of our most divisive outings to date.

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Comments

Isaac Wiken

Randall’s analysis/rant at around the 1 hour mark was beyond cathartic to hear. Thank you for that of you read these comments.

Jonathan Agner

Halfway through the book now and I couldn’t agree more with the previous commenter - Randall’s diatribe perfectly summarizes the most damning AND damaging elements of this novel. And (thus far) they’ve culminated in a highly clumsy experience that reads as smug, perpetually accusatory & just flat-out HEAVY. And I’m saying this as someone who agrees with an overwhelming majority of the principles King is forcing down our throats throughout the narrative! It’s just amateurish, sophomoric & distracting. THAT SAID, all the other stuff has been rather fun

Jennifer Urbain

Just finished, and 30 min into the episode, and I honestly must have read a different book. I really enjoyed most of it. King can write what he likes, of course; that’s been true forever, right? I like that his views have evolved. Scoring points off of his slang seems—sorry—lazy. I’ll hang in there and give the rest a chance, but it seems you’re just bagging on how old he is. His concept of Central Park is what he writes. That’s what any writer writes, including the podcast hosts.

Adam Hicks

I have a father who has morphed into Stephan King from a conversational point, and I just think Holly is how King talks to people these days. Everything is Trump, republican devils, covid, cops misbehaving, 24/7. I am the most non political person you'll meet but i was thrilled when Biden won just to maybe get normal talk around the holidays. Alas, we're on year 7 of Trump. At the golf course, the store, vacations, my dad brings up random "because of Trumps..." and people just look at him like ok... I don't know why some people can move on, and others like King and my dad are intent on focusing on the guy for the rest of their lives. So much energy wasted.

Jennifer Urbain
>>117081904

Adam; with respect, try to take into account that SK grew up in a different time, and ai truly think that his outlook now comes from having the same scare (ironic!) thrown into him that many of us have; there is real fear that our democracy may be on the rocks. Whether anyone agrees with that or not is totally up to them, naturally, but he clearly does; and as such, may not write in the same voice he used to. Everyone’s art reflects their experience and emotions; his is no different. Some of us might want him to stop being so ham-handed to be sure, but he’s just a person like all of us. I tend to agree with the Losers that this book may age better over time.

Adam Hicks
>>117081904

Hi, the only reason it bothered me here is I genuinely love this series. The Holly Gibney character and all 5 books she has appeared prior are some of my favorites. I think im in the minority there. I was so excited to get this one. And I just feel he’s breaking his characters. I also loved the Gwendy series. In both cases it’s like the characters and stories change at the end to something they never were just to talk politics. I’d be more than fine if King put out a book called “My Opinions on Stuff”. Tell us all about your thoughts. I actually think if he broke down how he felt with politics and such as he was writing, it may be a good read. I just wish he’d separate the story from himself. I’d be willing to listen. But when the heroes are alive cause they’re double vaxxed but those evil villains die cause they refuse to mask like their idol, it’s like come on…

Jennifer Urbain
>>117081904

Understood, and you make quite valid points. Maybe it’s that, particularly over the past few years, which blended politics and health care science in ways not dreamt of before, and that none of us could avoid, he processed his personal difficulty by writing about it (something he has always done) and the end result was this book, warts and all. I guess I’m willing to give him grace on that aspect because I feel like we all needed that, and maybe still do. I will say that, now that he’s made his feelings clear (both through Twitter and this novel), he can hopefully move on from it. For me personally, the man is about to be 75 years old, so I take every book as a gift. Guess that means I’d be a lousy critic!!

Adam Hicks
>>117081904

To Bryant- I guess it depends how you view Holly’s mom. She always seemed a bit of a villain to me. And her death was COVID/ mask refusal. To Jennifer - agreed 100% on each book being a gift. That is a great viewpoint to have! The catalog in full is still incredible

Bryant Burnette
>>117081904

Sorry, I thought you meant the professors. I suppose you could classify Holly's mother as a villain, in which case, sure, okay. But it seems like you're suggesting that somebody dying in a work of fiction as the result of being a Covid denier should be off limits, and I don't understand that. Such people existed in the world, and not in small numbers. I don't see any cultural value, be it in service of fiction or otherwise, in trying to pretend that they didn't/don't. Have I misunderstood your intention?

Adam Hicks
>>117081904

Someone simply dying of COVID, yes absolutely, it’s perfectly fine. My issue is more with the fact that every friend, family member, stranger on the street, grocery store worker, or anyone Holly comes in contact with instantly has to declare their political stance. And it never pertains to the story. It’s just not how anybody talks now or then. Not everybody is dying to tell you their political affiliation and vaccination status at first glance. And those political stances are always to paint liberals as the good guys and conservatives as the bad. I just think it’s so black and white, and quite frankly childish. I consider King an important voice for the liberal audience. The only way out of the mess we’re in is if both sides meet in the middle. Admit that nobody was right about COVID. What country hammered that nail? What political party really speaks for the people honestly and fairly? None. We have to do better together. This constant “my party is right, your party is wrong” gets us nowhere. Well…with the incoming Biden v Trump II probably worse than nowhere.

Eric

This book is pretty bad. Don’t know why King is still latching on to Holly and not any number of more interesting characters from previous books. This was a great discussion and I think they all nailed it on the head.

Roger
>>117278706

I also wonder if at this point he just wants to write procedural stuff and if he has to develop a new main character it's going to add 200 pages to his already too long for the genre book.

jennifer corozza

I just finished this and wanted to hear your words, so joined again! At first, the political King stuff annoyed me as it did in the ending section of The Institute, but it works. King is so good w/characters, he just makes it work. I also loved Barbara's part of the story with the old poet. He did such a great job. All the victims felt solid and real and I just wanted them to live even though I knew it was impossible. Poor Bonnie. The way they were messing w/the timeline, I thought she might survive, but King had to take us to the darkest place w/that poor girl. That last scene w/Jerome and the skateboard's kid mom broke my heart. To wherever we go. Since losing someone close to me (2 years now), everything hits so much harder. In reading the afterword, I was glad that was King's hardest scene to write. It should be and it was powerful. I wanted 400 more pages. Now, what do I read??

Lisa Dailey

I’ve come around somewhat on this book after spending some time thinking about it - the COVID overkill is disruptive, but less so a second time through. I am in total agreement that Holly is SO judgmental of EVERYONE in this book that it made her nearly unbearable at times. For someone whose original schtick was low self-esteem, she seems pretty comfortable giving mental demerits for every goddamn little thing. And King, love him as I do, is still an unrepentant fat shamer right in the middle of being self-righteously PC on literally every other subject. 🙄

jennifer corozza

I love Barbara and Jerome. So harsh. One of the best scenes is Jerome with Vera. Both scenes. Also, you guys don't seem to like Bill Hodges either. Do you like anything? If you weren't doing a podcast about Stephen King, I'd wonder if you even like his writing. There's critique, then why even do this? Are you guys like the Harris'? Also, it's not King's fault you don't get poetry. IT was more complicated, the poetry section, than you're making it. Of course, now I remember why I canceled this. I'm remembering how much you loved S3 of Stranger Things, my least favorite season and your harshness towards Will. Yikes.

The Losers' Club
>>117502650

"If you weren't doing a podcast about Stephen King, I'd wonder if you even like his writing." The fact that we've been doing this show weekly for six years should show we all love Stephen King. But, we're critical. That's always been a part of this podcast. From the very beginning. Some books we love, some we hate. This clearly was a polarizing book with us. You don't have to share our opinions. But know we wouldn't do this -- and put in all the effort it takes to run this show (and it's a lot of effort) -- if we didn't love the guy and his work.

Brandon Foster

Great discussion on this episode! This is definitely a divisive book.

jennifer corozza
>>117502650

I accept that, except for one thing. For Patreon, since it's not free, is it possible to have a positive person on? Or someone who just likes the book to give the other side of it? That's all I ask. Because I was so happy when I finished it. I can recognize issues w/the books, but there's so much I love, then I go to listen and it's just so depressing how critical you were. It was an onslaught. It almost seemed mean and you guys love King. I mean for being critical, I wanted more w/the victims and their people. I wanted more Jerome. I also wonder why we never get more w/Izzy? I also wanted more w/Holly w/the people she met and worked with. I have no interest in her mother and that story. That was the dullest for me. I find her ordering food from BK and buying new underwear more exciting. I also thought how the Harris' died was a tad dull. I wish Bonnie had lived, but that probably would've been too easy. Also, the second COVID came up, and Biden/Trump, I sighed, but as I got deeper, the story revealed itself and the characters worked for me. Anyway, have a good one.

jennifer corozza
>>117502650

in comparison, but still felt so critical. I mean, giving him crap about the poetry part. Barbara and Olivia were way more complicated. It wasn't just some love fest. My biggest complaint? I want longer books. 700+

Stephen Brindley

Spoiler!!!!!!! Great episode! I like that your never afraid to criticise, I think about 50% of this book was brilliant, but the other 50% let’s it down. Spoiler!!!! Personally I think Holly should’ve died at the end of this book and I think the only reason she didn’t was cause King likes her so much.

Todd Kline

Loved this episode. I was laughing out loud at Pound Cake with the Schwarzenegger accents!! I have a couple more King’s Dominions - on p213 a Mr and Mrs Cullen are mentioned, and on p391 we have the “nails digging into palms” description. Keep up the great content. Cheers.

Heather Dawn

So glad to hear I wasn't the only one who hated this book. I felt like the covid stuff kept knocking me back into reality, agree that a few more years would allow the subject to rest a bit. I found the timeline disruptive especially with Bonnie's disappearance and Barbara's poetry. I figured it out by the end but in general I hate chapters that begin with dates because I always have to go back to see what date I was at in the previous chapter. Also, I did this series via Audible and I thought the previous narrator really captured Holly's voice so I struggled with the new narrator.

Jamba Jamba

I liked it much better than Finders Keepers, End of Watch and If it Bleeds but still not one of my favorites.