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[CLOSED] - The Harry Potter Book Club! - Your Notes for Chapters 11 & 12 of The Order of the Phoenix! (Patreon)

Published:
2025-07-02 21:34:22
Edited:
2025-08-01 13:35:37
Imported:
2026-08
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Content

THIS PART OF THE BOOK REVIEW IS NOW COMPLETE! THANK YOU ALL FOR TAKING PART AND SEE YOU NEXT TIME! :)

Oof-Tee-Poof, everyone!! 👋 Here is a chance to get your comment read out in the next Book review video! If you are reading along with the r

Oof-Tee-Poof, everyone!! 👋

Here is a chance to get your comment read out in the next Book review video!

If you are reading along with the reviews, we are covering chapters "The Sorting Hat's New Song" & "Professor Umbridge"! So if you have any thoughts, opinions, comparisons or questions regarding these, please leave a comment below!

I do have to ask, try to keep them fairly short, like 4 or 5 sentences.  That way I can cover more when making the video.  Also try to keep them on subject and not referencing anything that we are yet to cover. Ideally, keep it to 1 comment each if you can (if you have more to say after commenting, you can edit it and add to it! :) ).  These are just rough guidelines rather than rules, I want to be able to fit in as many of you as possible! :)

NEW FEATURE!! - As some of you may want to make a comment, but not have it replied to by others, you can now Message me your thoughts on the chapters by DM'ing me on here.  If you do, please follow all the above rules, especially avoiding mentioning things in future chapters or books!  Oh and please start your DM message with "Book Club -"!

To anyone that does reply to comments below, please make sure you are being friendly and respectful!  A lot of tone and meaning can be lost in text, after all!  If you disagree with someone on something, keep it polite and remember the golden rule in life - Sometimes you have to just agree to disagree! :)

Thanks, guys!! :)

Files

Comments

Music Here

(*clears throat*) hem, hem.......Hi Veggie! -It's remarkable JK managed to make something as simple as clearing the throat an annoying feature of Umbridge. -I appreciate Dean not siding with Seamus despite their friendship. Great to see Neville & Ron defending Harry too. It's a rare moment of Harry feeling grateful for something Neville did. -It's weirdly endearing that Ron would blame Hermione if Harry and Ron failed their History of Magic OWLs. Ron is both praising Hermione & being unfair to her. He's probably at least half-joking though. -"Who do you imagine wants to attack children like yourself?" Imagine if Harry had responded with Sirius Black. The Ministry doesn't deny Sirius is free. How would Umbridge have spun it in her favor? -"Ron ejaculated loudly". The choice of words is...interesting lol -The "have a biscuit" moment is easily McGonagall's best in the books so far! It's an unexpectedly kind act from a stern professor. It's her way of showing she's on Harry's side without outright stating it. McGonagall is talking to him on a more personal level in a way we haven't seen before, like Harry is an equal. But, she's also being the authority figure and advises Harry to keep his head down. I LOVE this moment and I'm very disappointed it wasn't in the movie!

Howiedoing

Hey veggie and Woozle my pugs Bryce and Lily (named after Lily Potter of course) say hi as well. I always found it super interesting how the sorting hat finds sorting itself to be too divisive. My hatred of Umbridge kept this book a page turner for me as I wanted to get to the end so bad to see her finally gone.

Jake M

S'mae Wooggie! Chapter 11 I have to wonder- is the Sorting Hat imbued somehow with Dumbledore's thoughts and personalities? Would the song have been markedly different in tone had, say, Fudge been Head? "I'll sort you into houses four, don't listen to that Dumbledore?" "What really happened that night?" is such a bizarre question- what did Seamus hope? Harry to secretly admit that he murdered Diggory in order to win the Tournament? They did both seem to resent him for beating Gryffindor at Quidditch, after all... Chapter 12 Umbitch (pardon my Wizarding French) is so patronising, it makes my blood boil. She's described as speaking to Harry with a "horribly honeyed voice" which makes it obvious to me that she's goading him, and losing his temper is playing into her hands. We immediately see her prejudice when she refers to Lupin as a "dangerous half-breed"- and I wonder who told her about the unforgivable curses being performed by Fake Moody? "Have a biscuit, Potter." One of two legendary McGonagall scenes missing from the movie! All the best to the both of you!

Rod

Hey Veggie! - feel free to skip this comment. :) Everyone else: can we PLEASE be more considerate in the Book Club? These videos take a visible toll on Veggie, we can see him getting tired on screen. If everyone took ten minutes to skim the previous comments and prevent repeating things that were said already, and edit themselves to keep the comments short, the videos would be way shorter and less tiring to make, and maybe Veggie wouldn't have to space them out even more. He's too much of a nice guy and he will read everything, to the point it looks like we're taking advantage of him - and he's enabling us. If we all did our part to not increase the crazy amount of work he's doing, everyone would win.

Andrew K

Hey Veggie! Just wanted to say - these videos have meant so much to me, and have provided me with such a comforting space in very hard times. Never underestimate the power that your positivity has on the world. You asked last book if Harry’s request to Fred & George to buy Ron new robes would be followed up on - and in this chapter it has! They bought him new robes! “Have a biscuit”, “No”, “Don’t be ridiculous.” One of my favourite moments of the whole book. The way McGonagall drops the act of “teacher” to give Harry some authentic, serious advice as an Order member is great. Ron being a prefect doesn’t fail to disappoint, “Hey hey, you lot, midgets!” P.S. you were right last video, my picture is in fact me pulling up a mandrake at the Warner Bros studios! Stay well!

Andrew K

Hey Rod :) I appreciate everything you’re saying. I don’t think it’s a case of anyone being inconsiderate - so many people are busy, have other responsibilities, kids etc and simply don’t have to the time to read through all the comments. I’ve only read through the first few here because I’m early, but if I’m later in the month and there’s a lot of comments, I personally don’t have the time or energy to read through everything each month. I try to keep my comments shorter to do my part, but yeah I don’t think anyone is purposefully repeating stuff or being inconsiderate, although I do get what you’re saying absolutely :)

Steven

Have a biscuit, Veggie! Chapter 11: -Interesting that even the Sorting Hat is now questioning the Hogwarts house system. -I love how Neville stands out as the voice of reason, leaving Seamus speechless against his (and his gran’s) logic. Chapter 12: -Fred & George testing products on students is troubling, given what we know about the ingredients. -Umbridge having pointed teeth makes me imagine Gollum cosplaying her. -McGonagall’s biscuits and the surrounding scene is a standout moment. I love it so much; it's one of the things I always look forward to with this book. One of my favourite teachers in the series

Music Here

Space them out "even more"? Did Veggie announce we will be getting book clubs more rarely than once a month? I think that's been the pace from the beginning. But I'm with you we should try to read other comments and not repeat things too much. That's what I've been doing. Saying that you agree with other comments about something without going into detail is okay though

Rod

Andrew K - what I meant by that it's that we're throwing all the effort to read all of the comments on Veggie's back, and he has to do it and reply on camera. He also has other things going on, and we could just take a few minutes to do it ourselves and, you know, share the load.

Rod

Me Here - he's considering shifting to one chapter a month. He mentioned it in the last video. Which would be 2-3 years per book. :/

Rod

Also, in the beginning we wad three chapters every two or three weeks. Then it became monthly. Then it moved to two chapters. I mean, I get it. If it were me, I'd have given up on doing these videos long ago.

H

"I don’t think anyone is purposefully repeating stuff or being inconsiderate" I agree that it's not purposefully done like that, and of course Veggie would never expect everyone to read through the whole thing – but I also agrees with Rod a bit as well. Those extra minutes reading through comments could help Veggie avoid spending SO much of his energy on it! Maybe at least reading through 8-10 comments (if you just can't find the time to check every comment) would probably be helpful to find out if your own comment is just repeating things that probably will have been discussed already. (And just to be clear: I also repeated something in one of the latest Veggie videos that I definitely would've removed if I had been more thorough while reading through the comments.) At least I think it would be nice if people shortened their comments a bit more. I think it's only in exceptional circumstances (like chapter-relevant personal stories where it doesn't make sense to shorten it down) where it's necessary with comments longer than this comment (and again: I've probably been guilty of it myself at some point.).

Madikuma95

It's really cool of Neville to stand up for Harry against Seamus, and Ron's loyalty and belief in Harry feels like a positive inverse of what happened in Goblet. I really dislike Snape's teaching, here. It's understandable Harry would get a reduced score for making a mistake, but a full zero while everyone else gets credit? Harry still has quite a temper! To be fair, he's had a really crappy first day back. I think Ron and Hermione enjoy bickering with each other, but it drives Harry nuts. "Have a biscuit, Potter," is my favorite line from McGonagall! I understand why she advises discretion, but I do believe it's important to speak the truth, especially against authority. It's hard for me to imagine Umbridge looking like a toad; I just think of a more portly version of her actress. What do you think of book Umbridge? I find her infuriating, but I love how half the class rises to Harry's aid. P.S. Ron ejaculating loudly always catches me off guard!

Jo Winters

Hello Veggie! Thank you for the reviews. During the pandemic, I was reading those books to someone out loud, all day, every day until I finished them all. By these chapters, my voice changed so much that my cat was checking if it was still me behind the book. Sounded like someone demonically possessed reading. Chapter 11 I honestly think, considering the situation, that Harry hardly had a go at Seamus' mother. He wasn't even that rude...? Chapter 12 I like the set-up to the argument with Umbridge, because we see the chain of events that put Harry even more on edge. It makes sense how he reacted in context, right? I like how Dean spoke up for Lupin. It hints that he is generally liked. When I was first reading the book, and I was a child so forgive me, I thought that the cookie was laced with some calming potion. I hope McGonagall will have more scenes in the new series.

Esmeralda Joy

Hi Veggie! I kinda hated Ron in these chapters, he was rude and uncouth (stuffing his face, insulting Nick, midgets, rude to Cho). Even when he was sticking up for Harry, he couldn't wait to use his new power. 2 small mentions here about Professors. Mcgonagall and Sprout shared a meaningful look during Umridge's speech, and Grubbly-Plank chatting with Sinistra at the table. Makes me wonder about their personal lives. Do you think they're all friends?

Diego Zenhäusern

I think expecting people to read 30 or 40 (or more) comments is also unreasonable...🤔😕 That said, I agree that we could easily try to shorten our comments !

Diego Zenhäusern

WFFTITWFF Veggie! I love Hagrid but I agree with Luna that he's not a great teacher.😕 I wouldn't go as far as calling him a joke though! And there are definitely worse teachers at Hogwarts...like Snape who throws away potions of students he doesn't like (thereby actively hindering their learning process and influencing their grades) or even Binns who's so boring that most of the class never follows his words. On another note: As bad as Trelawney might be as a teacher I agree with her in one point she made these chapters: Divination shouldn't be a gradeable subject! I feel like you either have the 3rd eye or you don't and there isn't really anything in between.🤔🤷‍♂️ Also: I weirdly feel really sad for the sorting hat!😢😢. I mean in essence the hat is desperately saying that what he's doing is wrong but he's forced to do it and urges them to unify between the houses. So he's basically denying his WHOLE PURPOSE! And even then basically no one (apart from Hermione) seems to really consider even TRYING to bridge the gap to the Slytherins...😕😢 Lastly: When first reading the series this was the book where I went from liking McGonagall to truely loving her. And the biscuit scene is just the beginning of her being an absolute badass in this book!😊

Benjamin Hütz

Hey Veggie! A short one from me this time, just one sentence: I f****** love McGonnagall! Thank you :)

itsanursething

Hello Veggie-Wooz! I really tried to edit this down for you. I hope it’s not too long 😬 Luna, I love you, but don’t say mean things about Hagrid! Ok, I’ll admit, he’s not the best teacher, but he’s not a joke! I feel like Hagrid doesn’t get the appreciation he deserves. He’s always looked out for Harry, supported Harry in every way he can. He tries so hard but is always discriminated against, even if it’s not the most obvious. It’s interesting how people are viewing Harry, especially those that have known him for years. To me, it seemed like Seamus initially believed Harry, but when Harry started insulting his mother, Seamus then took her side. Side note: Ron calling Seamus “pal” feels like a very American phrase. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a Brit say that before… Well, Harry sure had a doozy of a first day of classes. Which, by the way, I’m confused. The train to Hogwarts is always on September 1st, right? Then why is the day after they arrive always Monday? Excuse me Snape. Rude much? You cannot say that was anything close to acceptable. There is no excusing or defending that. On another note, can we please see a dream sequence where Ron is eaten by a giant marshmallow? Please? LOVE LOVE LOVE McGonagall!!! She is the best! “Have a biscuit Potter.” YES!

Sandra

Hi Veggie :) It's nice that Harry is calmed by seeing Dumbledore. it shows how much he values trustworthy adults. It makes the contrast with Umbridge that much more obvious, too.

Andrew K

Hey again Rod, yeah like I say I do get your point. I think maybe instead of expecting people to read through every comment, points could definitely be shortened - that’s something everyone can 100% work towards :) Some comments do run on very very long sometimes

Florian

Hi Veggie! What did you think about the Song of the hat this year? Want me to link you the german version again? Sure it is not as melodie as last year, I still like it though. Did you expect Umbridges lessons to be like that?

Kunzite Blossom

I feel another big issue is a lot of posts aren't being kept short either. We all know he struggles and the longer comments probably don't help. It's why I always try and keep mine super short even if I don't get to mention everything I want to. I don't think people are intentionally trying to repeat stuff, and people don't have time to read through all the comments to make sure its not been said. I at least skim through a few but overlap is inevitable.

Kunzite Blossom

I feel the movies didn't show the support Harry gets as much, but I love seeing Neville side with Harry! He's starting to really grow more confident. Interesting to see Dean try and remain neutral. Seems he believes Harry but maybe doesn't want to risk his friendship with Seamus who doesn't know what to believe. I get why Harry doesn't want to talk about what happened though. It was only just over 2 months ago. He's still dealing with the trauma and just isn't ready to talk. Though maybe if he shared his story, would more people have sided with him?

Jo Winters

Maybe that's why she doesn't like him, because she's into magical creatures.

Will

Hi Veggie. I find it a little weird that Ginny defends Hagrid as a teacher along Harry and Ron. She doesn't have the same type of relationship with him as the trio does. She has only started taking care of magical creatures last year and with other then 3rd years. Why is she so defensive?

Grace

Well we don't really know her relationship with Hagrid since we haven't followed Ginny up until this point. Though I remember that she would visit Hagrid in chamber of secrets and spend some time there.

Grace

Controversial opinion here : I love the book club section but maybe it doesn't work for the later books..with the chapters being so long and the number of participants in the book club increasing, I feel like it's gonna get even more exhausting for Veggie. Unless he spaces out the filming of the video over 3 days or something, one day for the two chapters and then the next 2 days reading the book club. That will work better for him I think.

Andrew K

The “pal” thing really stood out to me as it sound really weird haha. The delivery comes out very American and not something Ron would say. I can imagine him saying something more like “mate” or else something less PG

Andrew K

Yeah there could definitely be some changes implemented. Perhaps maybe more structure guidelines on length of comments too. Veggie does say 4-5 sentences but I feel like nearly everyone doesn’t keep to that. Maybe a word count limit? But again it’s hard to implement that unless everyone is hounding each other to keep comment lengths down on every book club 🤔

Grace

Yeah as far as I know, you can't put a word count limit on Patreon like you can on Twitter or any other apps. So it just has to be followed by everyone to the best of their abilities. Going forward I think some changes should be made for Veggie's sake.

CDMellow

Salutations, Veggie. So, the real villain of the story has arrived: Dolores Umbridge. Let’s be honest—everyone hates her more than Voldemort. Sure, he’s the main antagonist, but she’s just such an effective heel. It really speaks to how well she was written. The way she evokes such strong emotions in the reader is a testament to the author’s skill. Exceptional work on that front. I also found her comment about "half-breeds" particularly interesting. It’s not something we really see in the movies, but it clearly shows something of a prejudice. Also, hats off to Neville for standing up for Harry and his gran for her loyalty to Dumbles. That moment deserves recognition. Fun fact, the spell Severus uses to make Harry's potion disappear is the same one he uses in Chamber (movie) to make Draco's snake disappear. Anyway, wishing you and Woozle all the best

S1lm4r1l

Agreed. Some people's comments are in dire need of editing down and formatting. There's always going to be people repeating thoughts and not everyone can think of a unique opinion for the chapters under discussion. But "4-5 sentences" seems to have transformed into 6-7 paragraphs of text. I feel guilty about the length of my comments AFTER editing them down and mine are usually amongst the shorter comments in the book club.

S1lm4r1l

Hi Veggie and Woozle! Everything in this book so far has been about Harry's desire to return to Hogwarts, to safety and normalcy. His annoyance about Ron and Hermione's vague letters, Dumbledore's remoteness, the Ministry hearing, and Sirius's sulky moods are all about this one thing. When Harry arrives at Hogwarts he's confronted with weird dragon-like horses, the mysterious disappearance of Hagrid, the mysterious appearance of Cho Chang, Seamus and Umbridge telling him he's full of it and Snape continuing to be a total d-hole. Its all too much. In the films, Harry's outburst almost comes from nowhere, whereas in the books its clearly the straw that broke the camel's back. This is yet another example of Snape being an abysmal teacher. He's simply refusing to grade Harry's work after telling the entire class how important the June examinations are. Harry has 0 reference for where he currently is academically in this subject, especially as he did not take the end-of-year exams in Book 4. I make no apology for having little patience with the idea that Snape is a good teacher, because he isn't. Am I crazy for thinking Neville's dream of "Scissors wearing his grandmother's hat" is a bit...Freudian? What is your favourite biscuit Veggie?

S1lm4r1l

Break for spoilers.

Dave Brannagan (Brannas86)

Hey Veggie and Woozle. Hope you're both well. I love the thestrals. (Seriously misunderstood creatures). Did you like the Sorting hats song? I agree that splitting the students among the 4 houses and the points system creats alot of inter-house hatred. Umbridge is my (and others) least favourite character. Her book version is very vile. I have never wanted a character to meet a horrid end more. Or maybe every WWE wrestler doing their finishing moves in her for real. Though for comedy, old school Stone cold repeatedly saying 'WHAT' to her would be funny b4 he stuns her. Snape. Just as vile a teacher as ever. ( some say "Oh but he wanted to bone Harry's mam so that makes him OK", no no it doesn't.). Snape rant over.

Maria

Hi Veggie! Hope you're having a great summer! Although it's a serious moment and not at all funny, I think it's hilarious that Harry describes Seamus' mother as "Dursleyish." I think it's so interesting that Luna says that Ravenclaw thinks Hagrid is a "joke." It's so rare we get perspectives from non-Gryffindor students. Since Ravenclaw is all about knowledge and learning, I wonder if they find that the lessons are not challenging enough. Spending months on blast-ended skrewts must be pretty boring. Why are two different teachers asking students to read in class in these chapters? Surely, it makes more sense to ask the students to do the reading before or after class. This might be a subtle way to show that Trelawney and Umbridge are not good teachers. Class time should be used for a discussion of the reading, a lecture, or some other activity. Also, I love Professor McGonagall! Have a biscuit.

Cj Hayes

G’day Veggie! Hope you are having a lovely week. Just want to clarify, the fandom refers to Ginny, Neville and Luna as the Silver Trio. Chapter 11 We get the impression that Ginny is very popular. I love Parvati and Lavender ripping on Umbridge, so teenage girl of them. Oi you lot! Midgets! I love Ron so much, he’s my second favourite character in the entire series (behind Luna). I love that Ron took control of his leadership position in Harry’s fight with Seamus! He really is going to look out for his friends. And Neville has gotten really brave recently, he also stood up for Harry. Chapter 12 I love Hermione putting Harry in his place with his bad attitude. I get where he’s coming from, but R+H really are on his side. However I also appreciate Harry telling them to stop bickering, that would drive me mad too. Not Umbridge having a go at Lupin! She doesn’t have the right! I’m sure everyone will bring up the have a biscuit moment from McGonagall, but it’s considered one of the best moment in the series by the fandom. Hopefully we get to see it on screen. Hope you are enjoying your summer! Love from Australia

S1lm4r1l

Neville manages to back Harry and Dumbledore without putting down Seamus or his mother as well. The way he lays out his perspective is beautifully simplistic.

S1lm4r1l

Hagrid probably made the mistake of saying that most of the creatures she likes are myths and fables.

Kate Bogd

Hi Veggie and Woozle! Not to stir up Snape drama again, but he honestly comes off worse than Umbridge here—he’s blatantly unfair to Harry, while she sticks to the rules and uses them to control everyone. That’s what makes her so awful: she knows exactly how far she can go without breaking the rules. “Have a biscuit, Potter” - McGonnagal is such an icon! Ron is hilariously oblivious in his interactions with Nick and Cho—he’s just a 15-year-old with zero emotional awareness, bless him. Harry’s anger makes way more sense in the book than the movie. It feels like a natural response to trauma and teenage angst, not just “Voldemort’ in your head makes you angry”. He’s not a perfect hero - just a very real teen with raw emotions. I really respect Hermione for calmly calling Harry out, even if she continues bickering with Ron like the 15-year-old she is. This all is a good reminder: they’re just kids, and judging them like adults isn’t fair.

jolt45

What's up Veggie and Woozle? Ch 11: Clearly Hagrid hasn't impressed the 4th year Ravenclaws much. Do you agree with Luna and her housemates' assessment of Hagrid as an instructor? You seemed surprised by his absence in the last chapter. I assume you've watched the movie scenes back this time and were reminded that he wasn't there at the start of the movie either. Ch 12: "Have a biscuit Potter." I know McGonagall and Hermione are very different characters in the books but they seem similar to their movie versions in these two chapters. I can easily picture Maggie Smith portraying McGonagall's eyebrow acrobatics as well as her other facial expressions. Hermione's progressively more combative nature (with Ron, Lavender, Harry and Umbridge) feels like its more in line with movie Hermione than early book Hermione. Perhaps an unpopular opinion: I think Harry is perfectly justified in calling out Ron and Hermione's bickering (even though he is made to feel guilty for it later).

Gugurupurasu Daikirai

Hand Veggie!, These chapters were long so I'll keep it short. Luna is a fair bit more unfiltered in the book. Harry is not having the best time of getting to talk with Cho even though she's trying. Ron and Hermione are already arguing like a married couple. Who's going to take over for Oliver Wood? (Remember, Ron's tryout was in the sixth movie) One thing I will mention after hearing your reaction to the Molly boggart scene from last book club was that JK Rowling made a point of making it known before this book was released that she was going to kill off an established character. That scene was the first fake out, and was more jarring with that context. Just a suggestion for something to keep in mind in case there are any other fake outs coming.

Garfnob

Greetings, Chapter – 11 - you would think the hat could make a better song, it has all year to work on it. that one did not flow very well at all. - well, Ron needs to eat a lot to maintain his feet. Chapter – 12 - how does a mail owl know to go get letters for you? Why would Hedwig be bringing a letter from Black? Black would be using his owl, or at least one he is borrowing. - the twins are using their time quite responsibly. - why didn’t Hermione lead Ron away when Cho showed up, if she knew what Cho and Harry wanted? - I HATE that attitude about school. It should not be about getting through the test. That is how you get students that cram to pass the test, and then promptly forget it all. School should be about LEARNING the material. Meaning you then know it, or at least you know it until it fades with lack of use. Ok, rant done. :)

Nessy-Bobs

Hi all Umbridge is NOT "Pretty in Pink" (Actually the less said about "Umbitch" the better lol) Ron trying to ask a question with a mouthful of food 🤢 At least in the film it was empty when he asked 😁 Filch is keeping count of how many times he's had to remind people not to break school rules (462) "Hem hem" blah blah blah load of old waffle Ron: "That was about the dullest speech I've ever heard, and I grew up with Percy!" "oy Midgets, over here" Neville will be finally able to remember the password Kids huddled together in case Harry might attack stragglers Snape uses the "Evanesco" spell to vanish Harry's cauldron mess. The last time Snape used that spell was to vanish the snake in The Chamber of Secrets. Bill used it earlier on to vanish the scrolls. Does that mean it's "forever vanished" or "put away for future use" , or are there different to levels of vanishment with that spell? Maybe the snake was Snape's own, and he told Draco how to summon it. Can't imagine Snape having a pet. "Have a biscuit Potter "

Josh Z

Every time I read this book I remember “Have a biscuit, Potter” and it makes me laugh because it is not the first thing that you expect to hear from McGonagall given why Harry is there. She really is a much more harder to predict character in the books and it is this one where you really start to see a large difference between the books and movies, not because of acting (Maggie Smith was fabulous) but in the character writing.

PumpkinSparks

I think the reason we hate Umbridge so much is that everyone knows or knows of someone like that. Maybe not as over the top obviously vile, but somewhere in that camp. She is real! Voldemort is a cartoon villain...

PumpkinSparks

Your take on Harry vs Seamus is so interesting and something I hadn't considered yet. But you're right! Harry was already in a foul mood (understandably so) AND is a hormonal teenager he went into attack mode immediately. And Seamus was in a very difficult situation to begin with and then got defensive over his mother being attacked. Which is understandable!

PumpkinSparks

Hey Woozles Human :) Unpopular opinion, but I kinda agree with the Ministrys assessment of Hogwarts teachers... Now, before I elaborate: I do NOT agree with what they are doing!!! But... The Magic World does not seem to care for anyone to learn about education before becoming a teacher (which is worrying), and Dumbledore does not seem to hire according to expertise or ability to teach. The only solid professors are those who we know were at Hogwarts before Dumbledore got hired (except for the decission to keep Binns) or the ones we don't know who hired them. Everyone we were explicitly told were hired by Dumbledore? YIKES! With the exception of Lupin! Hagrid? We love him and he has a vast knowledge about Magical Creatures, but his teaching methods are questionable at best. Snape? Again, vast knowledge, but a) teaches a subject he does not want to teach (hmmmm, I wonder why?), and b) uses his power to discriminate, bully, and worse Lockhart? Hired to be exposed as a fraud .......... I could go on about all of them......... I have my own theory on why he made those decisions, which honestly does not leave Dumbledore standing under a positive light! But that would be a looooooooong comment and would partially go into Book 8 territory... Why do you think his hiring seems so willy-nilly? Or do you see nothing wrong?

H

Hi Veggie! If it's hot today, I really hope you're taking some breaks, and that you add some liquids during the book club. I really love that there's a bit of revolt already in the first lesson with Umbridge. (And it can't be stated often enough how awful she is.) Some other things I like in these chapters: - Luna and Ron: "She simply watched him for a while as though he were a mildly interesting television programme" - Dumbledore throwing his beard over his shoulder to keep it out of the way of his plate - The Fat Lady having Mimbulus Mimbletonia as the password. I wonder what led to that! Did Neville suggest it to her? - That Ron's first proper act as a prefect is to defend Harry in the Seamus confrontation. - Hermione making Harry say sorry. - The whole conversation with McGonagall. - Ron not understanding why he did anything wrong in the Cho conversation. Of course not!

H

Have a bisquit, spoilerers.

Snowspeeders and Space Shuttles

Hi Veggie! Apologies for missing the last few book clubs, I have been very busy irl (not at all obvious hint in my new profile picture) and have unfortunately missed some important moments. Anyway, here are my notes for these two chapters. Chapter 11 I personally think Harry was quite out of line in his shouting match with Seamus. I understand Seamus wasn’t necessarily in the right, and it’s not exactly like he said some nice things either, but I can understand Seamus’ viewpoint. I’m sure he doesn’t want to fall out with Harry, but at the same time he doesn’t want to argue against his mother. I’m sure If he had proof he would have happily explained, but he doesn’t; he’s only going off the Prophet and that is the key point. He is clearly open and willing to at least correct his mother as he actually asks Harry about what happened, which means so much more than what everyone else is doing by whispering and murmuring about him. I think that shows that he has at least the presence of mind to want to know the truth, he’s not been completely brainwashed by the Prophet. Chapter 12 Our first proper encounter with Umbridge! She is written superbly. We didn’t even spend a whole chapter in the class and already I absolutely hated her. She is like that one teacher you always dreaded having at school. She knows exactly how to speak and act to wind the class up. Like Fudge, she is so cunning and intelligent. She knows that the students, particularly these students – Harry and co. are quite volatile and that she only needs to poke and agitate a little to get a rise out of them. Just the reaction she needs to get Fudge to take action. Harry’s choice to stay put and silent, or to stand up and challenge (not that he would have chosen the former) is an amazing example of “the lesser of two evils” The duel of word and will between Harry and her is incredible in my opinion. You want Harry to stand up for himself, to speak the truth, but at the same time you don’t. You get the idea that is exactly what Umbridge wants and that Harry is only making his situation worse the more he defends himself. This is the culmination of Fudge’s plans, to finally wedge Harry (and by extension Dumbledore) between a rock and a hard place. He cannot back down and stay silent, but neither can he stand up and fight without facing serious consequences. These two chapters are incredible. They do a lot of groundwork right off the bat as soon as we get back to Hogwarts, setting the stage for will come next. As always, I’m looking forward to the next chapters!

Hawwah

Harry is such a hypocrite. I really can't put up with him anymore. Is he even listening to himself? "I'll have a go at anyone who calls me a liar!" Harry, you called an innocent man a murderer. Repeatedly. Without any evidence whatsoever. And you never apologized to him, even when you learned how wrong you were. You're the last person who can criticize others for spreading/believing false accusations. *** You see, this is why I don't like Harry very much. He has no accountability. No self-reflection at all. This scene was such a perfect opportunity to show us some self-scrutiny on Harry's part. Some character development. But JKR completely missed it. Just bear with me. What if the scene continued like this. Harry is furious with Seamus. How can anyone be so stupid and believe these ungrounded accusations, he thinks to himself angrily. And how do people even have the nerve to spread such horrible accusations in the first place?! Wait a moment... Didn't I do the exact same thing in the past? And didn't my friend set an innocent man on fire because she believed the false accusations I had been spreading? So... how exactly am I better than Seamus? Harry having first-hand experience with being wrongly accused could have - should have - led to him seeing his past behavior in a different light. *** Regrettably, such self-reflection on Harry's part never comes. He is so self-righteous. He never even considered apologizing to Severus for falsely accusing him. (Geez, I wonder why Sev doesn't like him.) But heaven forbid other people should do the same thing to him. It reminds me of the Justice Field in Red Dwarf. Harry likes to throw ungrounded accusations around. Other people throw ungrounded accusations at Harry. When will Harry finally learn his lesson?

Dustin Baum

Hey Veggie! I'm getting to this pretty late because I've been busy with the birth of my 3rd and final child! (Got the old snip-snip just to be sure) I dont have much to say about these chapters, but listening to it again this time around I think I've realized this book might be the reason why I say "fat chance" so much. I'm pretty excited for the upcoming Quidditch season even though I know you're not a fan of it. And you can say what you want about Snape as a teacher, but you have to admit that it's pretty impressive that he can just look at Harry's potion and know exactly what's wrong with it.

Réka Kovács

Hi Veggie and Woozle, Being from Hungary, where the government really tries to interfere in education with limiting books we can teach from, prescribing topics to teachers they are not allowed to talk about etc., Umbridge's speech is now even more infuriating to me then when I was a child. Seamus’s behaviour shows how propaganda and lies can ruin friendships and turn people against each other. I really appreciate Neville also sticking up for Harry. I agree with Hermione that the boys would deserve to fail History of Magic. As I am a history teacher myself, I am probably biased, but I would love to learn that subject, though I know that the way the teacher presents the material can have a big influence. I love Snape as a character, but humiliating a student for doing something incorrectly is never ok in my opinion. And him clearly treating Harry worse than others is just unfair. Umbridge’s class is ridiculous. Not only are they not learning practical spells in class, they will be expected to do them at the exam. How can students be expected to do something in a stressful situation that they never even got to practice in class? But she is correct about the difficulties of having multiple teachers with different styles, and often not appropriate for the job (not correct about Remus though!). I also started teaching after students had a different history teacher every year, and had to prepare the final years for exams, and it was not an easy task. But that’s exactly why a good teacher would do their best to help the students prepare for the exam AND for life, with practical knowledge they can use, not only theory. Have a biscuit, Veggie.

Dobby Delfstoffer

Hi Veggie! Harry being sick of Hermione and Ron's bickering is so relatable, I've been in that situation way too often and it really drives you insane. I usually agree with Hermione, but I think it's unfair to blame Harry for "taking out his temper" when he snaps and tells them to stop it (in this specific case, in general Harry certainly has anger issues). My dreams are pretty wild, so it would be very funny to try and interpret them. One of my most recent dreams involved the Pope teaching me magic to fight pirates. What could that possibly mean? Dutch fun fact of the month: Dumbledore is translated to Perkamentus in Dutch. Perkament means parchment, and in my opinion it puts over Dumbledore's old age since parchment is also pretty old. See you next time!

Liz

Hey Veggie and Woozle It's been a while I kept missing the book club but hope I'm in time this time haha Chapter 11 The Sorting Hat is clearly talking about Voldy, Seamus is kind of annoying here but not everyone is Neville's gran who is clearly very intelligent and wise. I love that Neville is very much on Harry's side like his gran and Dean is sort of in the middle. And will Ron stop insulting Nick!! We finally meet toadface properly 😆 still can't believe she dared to interrupt Dumbledore. Chapter 12 Did you think Ron would back Hermione up with regards to Fred and George's antics? I had a feeling he wouldn't with them being his elder brothers he's not used to telling them off and they'd just laugh at him if he did. Ron's not finished insulting people is he? Poor Cho, she's still grieving and probably having to put on a brave face around other people. I think it's a bit unfair that after Harry states his feelings about Ron and Hermione bickering they just assume he's taking his temper out on them. If I had 2 best friends who kept bickering all the time I would snap at them occasionally, it must be quite annoying with how frequent it is. DADA is pretty much the same as the film. "Have a biscuit, Potter" 😆😆😆😆 I look forward to your views on the chapters. Take care Veggie and Woozle

Simon audsley

"Item - Elvis lives on my paper route. Item - Bigfoot eats out of my trash." Since you mentioned "without my pants" a few book clubs ago I thought I'd see what else you watched with this quote. But at least you know where babies come from thanks to round the twist. So according to the sorting hat Hufflepuff are the equivalent of when kids pick teams they're the ones no one else wants? bloody glad I'm in slithering as I had enough of that when I was in school. Not a lot going on even though they are quite big chapters just a lot of little bits of scene setting for the future. Also the group dynamic is changing a bit now Ron and Hermione have other duties.

Noni

Hi Veggie. I can’t believe I missed last month when there was so much book only material. It was my own fault I put off listening to the chapters so I could listen on my holiday when I was relaxing only to relax too much and forget all about them. Oh well, there’s plenty more book only storylines to look forward to. No massive changes from the book in these last 2 chapters, just more details and context to events you’re already aware of. And another appearance by Sir Cadogan. I might be mis-remembering but I think he only appeared once in the films and even then it was only in the background. Actually, thinking about it, I don’t think the OWL exams were ever brought up in the movies so maybe we did have something new. As far as the number of chapters you do at once, I don’t think anyone’s going to be mad whatever you do. I mean, we all want more but we’d rather have your usual quality discussions over a longer time period. My only suggestion is that the longest portion of the videos is the book club and that is unlikely to get much shorter if people are commenting on just one chapter instead of 2. By doing 1 chapter at a time you will likely increase the overall time you spend on these videos. I know you don’t want to go over the 6 hours and also don’t want to have separate videos for the book club and the reviews but how about recording all in one video as you do now, posting the full video on Patreon regardless of length and posting to YouTube as part 1 and 2 with part one being review of the first chapter and part 2 being review of the 2nd chapter plus book club for both chapters. You could post them at the same time with a link to the other part. Or you could do a test to see if the 6 hour thing was just a coincidence and let 1 video go over 6 hours to see if the same thing happens. Just a suggestion, I’ll be watching regardless.

PumpkinSparks

I see what you are going for with your splitting idea, but I don't think that would work. How do you want to split up book club for the 2 videos? That would be an editing nightmare and take Veg a loooooooong time to sort through.

PumpkinSparks

Oh my Gods, thank you for mentioning the sorting hat dissing Hufflepuff! I debated so long if I should rant about it, but I couldn't in good conscience add that to my comment. In the first book it is established that we are the house that is loyal and hard working - now we're downgraded to "we don't have a trait and just take the rest noone wants" 😠 it's almost like the author doesn't know her own world 😶

PumpkinSparks

I don't think that is why Snape hates Harry. Snape is an asshole who never learned to grow up, and who hates a child because he projects his teenage resentments towards his father onto him! Just like Harry, Snape could do with some self reflection... Other than that I absolutely agree! Harry has a bad case of main-character-syndrom. Not because he is the main character of the books, but he thinks of himself as the main character - there is a difference 😉 but having your characters being able to self reflect would require the same ability from the author.... well........

Hawwah

Hi PumpkinSparks. This is such a bizarre argument. Are you saying that if Harry had not been Potter's son, Severus would have been okay with - Harry falsely accusing him of several serious crimes and never apologizing - Harry constantly breaking school rules and then lying about it to Severus' face - Harry being cheeky and disrespectful to him since the very first lesson - Harry generally misbehaving in Severus' classes (arriving late to class, not paying attention, chatting with Ron and Hermione during class, reading magazines under the desk and so on) - Harry intentionally hurting his classmates in order to distract Severus so that Hermione could break into his office and steal his supplies - Harry physically attacking him (alongside with Ron and Hermione) I don't think so.

Noni

You wouldn’t split book club. All veggie would need to do is cut the video into 2 parts after reviewing the first chapter. First chapter review would be part 1 upload and review of chapter 2 and the whole of book club would be part 2. Both uploaded at the same time so you can click straight to part 2 after watching part 1.

Methanoutput

Heeeey Veggie and Woozle! I think the Mcgonagall scene is going to be talked about a lot. So i am gonna keep it short, but i think its a scene that gives her a lot of humanity and depth. Before i always saw her as a teacher and strict. She is now more of a person to me with a private life etc. Hope that makes somehow sense? I hope you and Woozle are doing great, cant wait to hear your thoughts!

Methanoutput

I also agree that i really don't like Harry in those Situations, but i also think its realistic? I think understanding that you were wrong and apologizing is something, that is even still hard for some adults. It would have definitely been nice if Harry would come to this conclusion but he's also a Teenager and i think most Teenagers are not that mature yet. So i also dislike how Harry is behaving, but i also think it somehow sadly realistic. And for Snape (And i know that you really like him and i am not that good at the facts so please correct if i am wrong) i always thought, that he is kind off getting forced by Dumbledore to teach and that teaching is not really something he is really passionate about? So i think that is also something that plays into this dynamic and makes it somehow worse off a situation. And i think that shows, that Dumbledore is also not really passionate about teaching, when he appoints teachers, that are not passionate about teaching. We had teachers at our School, who were very very good at their field but did not like teaching. It was not a class anyone did look forward to, including the teacher.

Grace S

Hi Veggie! I didn't get to participate in last month's book club, I've been very busy prepping for my senior year! Anywho, my notes! Chapter 11: The sorting hat has mentioned its job before about sorting the kids too young. What do you think the best system would be, if the kids should be sorted at all? Ron is so much more vocal about standing up for Harry in the books. Chapter 12: Already Snape is back to his usual antics lol. Half breeds. That's horrible, and so is Umbridge. The reason why she seems so evil is because she's so realistic. There are a lot of people like her in the real world and it's just awful. Also, have a biscuit is one of the funniest moments I think. Hope you and woozle have a great day!

Mate

Hi Veggie, I have managed to pop in after your last post about the book club. You mentioned its a chunky one! Thanks for all your hard work. It must be tiring! Have a biscuit veggie!

Ирина Устюгова

Snape has no right to judge Harry or pretend to be morally superior to him, lol. He was a Nazi who was okay with a one-year-old child being killed.

Ирина Устюгова

Also, just because you like Snape doesn't mean you can change the narrative of the story to suit your taste. - Harry falsely accusing him of several serious crimes and never apologizing You mean Harry discussed with his FRIENDS that he suspected Snape? Or questioned his loyalty to Dumbledore after he found out Snape was a Nazi? I mean, you're pretending Harry wrote a slanderous complaint about Snape to the Minister of Magic or something. Harry has every right to suspect anyone, he didn't even say any of those accusations to Snape's face and those accusations didn't hurt Snape in ANY WAY. I'm not even sure Snape knew about them, because I doubt Dumbledore would have told him. - Harry constantly breaking school rules and then lying about it to Severus' face Harry is a kid, literally every kid at Hogwarts breaks rules. And you expect him to tell the truth to a teacher who emotionally abuses him on a regular basis? - Harry being cheeky and disrespectful to him since the very first lesson Snape has been emotionally abusing and bullying Harry since the very first lesson, you expect Harry to be a doormat and let Snape walk all over him? - Harry generally misbehaving in Severus' classes (arriving late to class, not paying attention, chatting with Ron and Hermione during class, reading magazines under the desk and so on) Snape is a rubbish teacher. He may be a genius at potions, but he is simply incompetent as a teacher. He has minions (Draco Malfoy and the Slytherins) who also talk in class and he does NOTHING. I'm sure Snape is imagining himself as a second McGonagall in his head, but in reality he's a bitter 30 year old who can't get over his school bully and is taking it out on the bully's son. - Harry intentionally hurting his classmates in order to distract Severus so that Hermione could break into his office and steal his supplies No one was actually hurt, you're trying to overdramatize the moment to push the idea of poor, mistreated Snape. - Harry physically attacking him (alongside with Ron and Hermione) After Snape decided to kill two innocent people over a school grudge. And what about saintly Snape? Did he apologize to Sirius for thinking he was a murderer? Or to Lupin for planning to have him executed? Or Snape shouldn't apologize for all the shit he did and the pain he caused people? But everyone should coddle Snape and care about his feelings? Yeah, sure.

PumpkinSparks

Hej Hawwah, you're take on Snape is absolutely fascinating to me. It's like we've read completly different books! Don't understand me wrong, you absolutely are valid in your own read of the characters and your own opinion. But how you get there fascinates me immensly! As for your points: -most of them are done by the trio not Harry alone (and while he treats Ron and Hermoine like all non-Slytherins - Hermoine a bit worse for abvious reasons - he targets Harry explicitly ), also some of them are teenagers being teenagers (being late occasionally, testing boundaries by talking back, reading during class, etc - we've all done that) -As far as we're aware Snape doesn't know about the accusations - as you phrased it. Harry didn't walk around the school telling everyone what he believed Snape has done. The trio talked privately about their theories. -Hurting a classmate is absolutely ground for detention or some other punishment, but Snape didn't catch them in the act. He might have his suspicions, but he didn't see them doing it. -I'm not sure what moment you are referring to when you said they "attacked" Snape. Shrieking Shack? When they all decided at the same moment to disarm him after Snape tied up Lupin and threatened that the Dementors might kiss him too? ... okay... Even if I agreed with your read on Harrys behaviour (and mind you, I am not the biggest Harry fan myself) there is still one big issue: Snape is an adult! A teacher! Harry is a child/teenager. There is no scenario where a teacher should single out one student and bully him to the ground. From their first encounter Snape saw Harry and hated him - a grown ass man towards a child. For no other reason than Harry being James son and being his look-alike. Would he liked Harry if he had a different father? Or looked like Lilly? Absolutely not, and I never said that. He would have treated Harry like every other Gryffendor: unfairly, but not singling him out. This chapter is a prime example of that targeting. It would really interest me how you would defend Snapes behaviour there. How is anything he did during that potions class okay?

zulu

Hawwah, even though I mostly disagree with you (and agree with everyone else in this thread), you obviously have the right to feel in certain ways about fictional characters, you are entitled to your own made-up interpretations and even represent them towards the public. But watching Veggie react to your comment (this one) in the latest book club felt terrible, I hope you felt it too. All of us are here because of Veggie and you made it painful for him, because he respects you (and everyone) too much to publicly criticize your attitude. (Not the points you made, he addressed most of those.) I believe the time has come for you for some self-reflection. You have been repeating the same arguments since Book 1, while the discussions should be about recent chapters. You believe it is your mission to force your Snape-interpretation to everyone else, to push your agenda instead of having an open discussion. You seem to come here seeking the joy of arguing with all of us, handpicking and twisting details to support your claims, dish out sarcastic replies, while NEVER ever acknowledging the points we make or the fact that certain situations have multiple different interpretations, equally justified as yours. You blame Harry for not having enough self-reflection, but all through these years I cannot recall you acknowledging counter-arguments (let alone adjusting your opinions even the slightest). This is not against you personally, I'm only saying this against your toxic attitude. We are here in this book club (so is Veggie) to hear personal reflections and different takes on the story we love, and discuss opinions. It's not about who is right and who is not, but about listening to each other while having a great time and broadening our perspectives. Please respect it and follow along, to make this community a better place.