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[CLOSED] The Harry Potter Book Club! - Your Notes for Chapters 8, 9 & 10 of the Prisoner of Azkaban! (Patreon)

Published:
2023-01-16 14:43:11
Edited:
2023-02-10 16:10:21
Imported:
2026-08
Tags:

Content

Hi guys! This part of the Book Club has now been completed!  See you next time! :)

*** Hi guys! I have made a couple of updates to the rules, so please give them a quick looky before commenting! :) ***

Here is a chance to get your comment read out in the next Book review video!

If you are reading along with the reviews, we are covering chapters "The Flight of The Fat Lady", "Grim Defeat" and "The Marauder's Map"! So if you have any thoughts, opinions, comparisons or questions regarding these, please leave a comment below!

I do have to ask, try to keep them fairly short, like 4 or 5 sentences.  That way I can cover more when making the video.  Also try to keep them on subject and not referencing anything that we are yet to cover. Ideally, keep it to 1 comment each if you can (if you have more to say after commenting, you can edit it and add to it! :) ).  These are just rough guidelines rather than rules, I want to be able to fit in as many of you as possible! :)

NEW FEATURE!! - As some of you may want to make a comment, but not have it replied to by others, you can now Message me your thoughts on the chapters by DM'ing me on here.  If you do, please follow all the above rules, especially avoiding mentioning things in future chapters or books!

To anyone that does reply to comments below, please make sure you are being friendly and respectful!  A lot of tone and meaning can be lost in text, after all!  If you disagree with someone on something, keep it polite and remember the golden rule in life - Sometimes you have to just agree to disagree! :)

Thanks, guys!! :)

Files

Comments

Kunzite Blossom

I've watched the movies more then I've read the books and I listen to the audio due to reading disability. So it was more likely me not listening fully as I listen before bed. Maybe cause of the movies I just think I heard it in the book anytime that scene comes up. I think also, maybe in my head Lily seemed like she would have been a very kind person, and she probably would have been the type to help Lupin after his transformations. Though I guess given she hated James at first it would make sense she wouldn't help Lupin or be close to him until much later. Will need to give another listen though. I'll try and remember that. Thank you for the correction.

.

In a way, I think the third movie was the best to represent the students and what they learn in school. With DADA classes with Lupin and one with Snape, with Trelawney, Hagrid's class with the Hippogriffs, etc. The year felt very centered on the students, their grouping, their friend circles (Harry in his dormitory, with Seamus, Neville, Ron, etc. eating candies or Hogsmead's trip). Love the dynamic. I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's nice to see more focus on the students in the book.

.

The fact that Ron stood up against Snape when he called Hermione a Know-It-All is one of his best moments. Shows how loyal he is even though he was somewhat still angry with her because of her cat. Too bad in the movie they made Ron literally agree with Snape: ‘'He's got a point, ya know?'. Like what? xD The fact that Cedric wanted a rematch speaks volume on his character. Nice to see Hufflepuff finally getting some well-deserved love 💛🖤 (they always seem to be the butt of a joke or to be underestimated by other houses )

Jake M

I don't think the audiobook versions have ever been corrected since they were first released, Garry-not-Gerry; they still contain Nick's 'I haven't eaten in nearly 400 years' comment, for example.

Jake M

Harry definitely seems to have a one-track mind, whenever he gets an idea in his head he becomes obsessed with it, even if it's not right; Snape wanting the Stone and the DADA job, Draco being Heir and later Dumbledore's wannabe assassin (fair enough he was right about that one), that Cedric was deliberately trying to humiliate him, or how Ginny is literally the only girl in his thoughts from partway through book 6 until the very end, to the point at which he just watches her on the Marauders Map while on his extended camping getaway. It's kinda unhealthy, honestly. On another note, I wonder whether Snape knew about the job's curse?

Jake M

Given they clearly shun muggle remedies, I wonder how mental health is dealt with in the wizarding world? If at all.

Jake M

It's a shame we didn't get to see much of the Ravenclaw - Hufflepuff rivalry. I wonder if Harry even bothered watching the other matches? They never got anything more than a passing mention in the books.

Jake M

It's a shame the movie redacted their book-long feud in place of basically one argument in the Leaky Cauldron, that we don't even hear the full extent of. It sets a precedent for the fourth book, that Ron is prone to falling out with his best friends quite easily...

Rebecca May

That's one way of putting it 😅 To be fair, having a one-track mind is a fairly realistic and common teenage trait... It's just unfortunate that in Harry's case it often manifests in believing the worst about people (which is rarely true, and annoyingly it reinforces his beliefs on the odd occasion he does get it right). I'd never wondered about Snape and whether he knew about the job's curse, that's a really good point! I feel like he *must* have known by this point... But I've just realised that it was the Defence Against the Dark Arts position that Voldemort sent Severus to apply for. Given that the curse originated with Voldemort's failure to gain the position.... Yeah, kind of a dick move.

Jake M

Yeah, tact is not Hermione's strong suit. She gets pretty vindictive as the books go on... Just look at Rita Skeeter, Marietta (Or don't, as it might embarrass her) and her Ron-seeking missile canaries. Definitely one of the nuances they chose to remove from Movie Hermione, but it makes her so much more believable how she's not Little Miss Perfect.

Jake M

The movies definitely big up their relationship beyond what the books said. In fact, I'm not even sure if Lupin was in James' closest circle after Hogwarts- he isn't mentioned in Lily's letter to Sirius at all, only 'Wormy' is said to have visited them lately.

Jake M

I always interpreted the 'finish him off' comment as a joke, rather than dark- he says it during the CoS Duelling Club, too. Maybe it's a British thing, but "I'm gonna kill you for that" to pranks and the like was a pretty standard response while I was growing up. In fact, doesn't Ron say something about killing Fred for lying about the sorting ceremony in PS? So he's got precedent.

Jake M

Maybe his Kwikspell lessons had a 'Self-defence against raving lunatics ' module? 🤷‍♂️😆

itsanursething

@ Hawwah I've been thinking a lot over the last several days about whether or not I wanted to respond. I think I've collected my thoughts enough to (hopefully) explain how/why I see things the way I do. First, I just want to say I do NOT hate Snape. I do NOT think Snape is evil. And I have NOT been trying to bash him in any way. I think he is a very complex and interesting character and the fact that I think he bullies his students doesn't take away from him being a hero, it makes it all the more important and impressive. That being said, for me, and I think for most other Harry Potter readers, it IS canon that Snape is a bully. Partly because JKR has said it/written it, but also because the beginning of chapter 8 explicitly says Snape was bullying Neville. I know you disagree and don't think his behavior was bullying. That's totally valid. I can see and understand some of why you feel that way, but can you at least see why most of us disagree? You've stated a few times that canon for you is ONLY what's in the books. I believe that for most Harry Potter fans in the world however, the books, AND anything JKR has to say or add is considered canon (Harry Potter wiki states this on their page). For me, I LOVE the books, but I always wanted more! Anything JKR could say or write to expand the universe was welcome to me. The universe is full and complete in her mind. You can't put everything in the books, just like you can't put everything in the movies. I know she has stated before that there were things she left out of the books because of one reason or another. So for most of us, anything she said or wrote to supplement is canon (and so welcome!). I feel like disregarding that just takes away so much more you could learn about the universe. That being said, if you don't want to consider anything outside of the books canon, that's fine. That is your right. But can you see why most of us consider more than just the books to be canon? Why so many people keep referencing things JKR has said in interviews? I'm sorry this got so long. And I'm sorry I got frustrated the other day. I felt like you weren't discussing, just telling me why I was wrong because I don't see things your way. If I was mistaken, I apologize. I hope this was able to explain why we see things so differently.

itsanursething

I'm with Diego on this on Tami. We don't find out that James and Lily switched to Peter as secret keeper until much later in the book. And since it wasn't in the movie, this is a pretty big spoiler! You might want to take that sentence out of your comment :) Sorry!!

Jake M

Still, 6 years of banging on about Snape always wanting the DADA job and being untrustworthy is a bit ridiculous XD hmm, have to wonder whether Voldemort actually knew about the jinx? It might have been some sort of accidental magic induced by high emotions, in lieu of having an aunt to inflate. That would explain why he didn't mind sending Snape to apply for it.

Thunderbird

Really? I thought about it too but then decided that since he knows Black is innocent it would be kind of obvious that it was Pettigrew. But apparently not. Thanks for pointing it out, I took that sentence out of my comment.

Jake M

It's more the concept of 'secret keeper' that hasn't come up yet. We know from the movies Pettigrew betrayed the Potters, but I don't think they go into much detail and the methods come up later in the book, so you could always mention your points again when we get to it. 😅

Rebecca May

Just a bit ridiculous, yes xD I absolutely think that Voldemort is vindictive enough to have deliberately cursed the position, but given that he sent Severus to apply for it, I think a very powerful form of accidental magic is definitely the more likely explanation. At least you'd hope so!

Garry (Not Jerry)

The thing is, though. Lupin doesn’t really keep in touch with Harry even after meeting him, despite him being so warm and friendly with Harry while he is teaching at the school. Sirius does, but Lupin only ever interacts with Harry again in happenstance. At Order meetings etc. And I think there is a line in a future book where Harry thought that Lupin would write to him, but he never heard anything.

Garry (Not Jerry)

I also don’t know if you have to actually say specifically the words “I solemnly swear that I am up to not good” - just make your intentions clear somehow. I can actually imagine Fred and George coming you with that particular line while trying random stuff, just to see what happens. Then, since it worked, they just always said the same thing in future

Garry (Not Jerry)

Yes, Hufflepuff won, although they were also “flattened” by ravenclaw, so the celebrations were short-lived

Garry (Not Jerry)

@Hawwah But Lupin can’t have known that Neville’s fear was Snape. It’s not like he planned it this way. Other students laughed when Neville said that his fear was Snape, but Lupin simply looked thoughtful. He just had to come up with a way to make it funny. Any method of making snape funny would involve some sort of ridicule. Perhaps he shouldn’t have allowed Neville to go in front of the boggart so as to remain professional to his colleagues, but at least he was impartial. I think he would have done the same thing if it was any other teacher.

Clair C

I also don't understand why they switched the dog to the clouds, it's not like the scene would be shorter, and it's really important the original scene

Clair C

@Hawwah So in the fifth book when snape sabotage all the potions that harry does, and give him bad grades is scolding misbehaving teenagers? Or when draco give hermione the spell that grow her teeth and he ignores and says that doesn't see any difference? Sorry, but i disagree, sometimes yes, he was just being a teacher (a very rude teacher, but just that), but most of the times he was just humilianting and putting them down. Anyway, when I was 13 I just wanted that my bullys desappear, no matter how or why.

Clair C

@Janie Completly agree, we know in psychology that when someone (specially a kid/teenager) does something wrong when is learning, if we give them a negative reinforcement, they tend to get worse in the subject, so if we say that snape is "not a bully" (what I desagree), he is definitively a bad teacher that doesn't encourage the students to learn, and has no ditactics.

Garry (Not Jerry)

“His eyes flashed menacingly at the very mention of Professor Lupin’s name, and he was bullying Neville worse than ever.” I mean… I admire you for trying, but are you really going to argue this one Hawwah? 😄 Weren’t you telling me before that we had to take the Author’s words on the page as canon, that it would be dishonest to ignore certain parts because they don’t fit with your personal narrative?

Kate Bogd

Hi Veggie! This is my first comment on the Book Club, yay! Greetings from California :) First, some little trivia, because you seem to enjoy it in other comments. I first read Harry Potter in Russian and they translated some of the names quite curiously but also left some the same. For example, Griffindor and Slytherin didn't change, but Hufflepuff became Poofendooy and Ravenclaw became Kogtevran. My favorite is them getting inspired by the wordplay Snape - snake and thus translating him as Snegg, which is a play on the Russian word for "snow". Most are already said above in these chapters. I only want to notice how unpleasant Hermione is in the situations with Ron and Scabbers and Lavender and her rabbit. Movies from 3 onwards made Hermione pretty emotional and sensible, but here she demonstrates, I think, some lack of emotional intelligence. Her roasting Lavender, while she is mourning the loss of her rabbit, is honestly awful. She is definitely not perfect and seems self-centered, trying to prove a point and disregarding the feelings of others.

Garry (Not Jerry)

Don’t you know? Fudge, hagrid, mcgonagall, flitwick and rosmerta are a regular hangout crew. They’re always getting into shenanigans 😂

Garry (Not Jerry)

RIP Binky, Lavender’s pet rabbit. Hermione made a good point - saying that Lavender can’t have been dreading it because she didn’t expect him to die. However - she WAS dreading something happening on this day. Lavender didn’t know what professor Trelawney’s prophecy was referring to, but she was dreading whatever it was! So technically, her prediction was right!

Clair C

I first read in brasilian portuguese, they also translated a lot of names, like Gryffindor - Grifinória Slytherin - Sonserina Ravenclaw - Corvinal Hufflepuff - Lufa-Lufa Mad-eye - Olho-tonto It's so nice seeing others translations

Clair C

Funfact: reading a Hufflepuff house edition (the philosopher stone), we learn that the founder of Hogsmeade village, Hengist of Woodcroft, was a Hufflepuff too. 💛🖤💛🖤

Kate Bogd

Lufa-Lufa made me chuckle 😂

Methanoutput

Hey Veggie, since i am kind of late to the party again, i am not gonna write that much! :D I love the little insight about Hogsmeade from Hermione and Ron after Harry leaves Lupin. That they have seen some kind of ogre makes it clear that, hogsmeade it is not a thing that belongs to hogwarts, but is a little town and meeting point for many magical beings. Also one of my favorite sentences from one of my favourite characters, Fred after Gryffindors defeat: "Still in the showers," said Fred. "We think he's trying to drown himself.". I know i should not laugh, but i did. Poor Oliver.

Preetam Ozarde

I think that because we see things from Harry's perspective we don't hear about things he chooses not to focus on. Like we don't hear about prefects and headboys unless Harry focuses on it. Like when he hears that his father James, or Percy or Bill were headboys. Then again during his fifth year when Ron and Hermione are made prefects we hear about other prefects. We hear that his father wasn't one and Remus was. JK uses this technique often I think so that she doesn't have to give out all the information at once, so that the story can flow and is more condensed etc. This allows her to slowly expand the universe as Harry learns more or atleast until it's something he chooses to question. Also, I think that the Head Boy/Girl is incharge of overseeing all prefects, patrolling the corridors at night along with the prefects and basically doing whatever any teachers ask of them. Maybe we would find out more of their responsibilities if they attended a normal 7th year and Hermione became Head Girl or something.

Preetam Ozarde

I think Lupin is a very insecure person in general because of being a werewolf. I think the only people he was really friends with was James, Sirius, Peter and later Lily. And they all died. I know he's in the order and everything but I don't think they were friends to him like these people were. That's why he puts up these walls around him and even when he falls in love with Tonks, he convinces himself that she is better off without him.

Preetam Ozarde

This is what JKR said about it: This is from an mugglenet interview: MA: How did they figure out how to work the map, the exact word combination? Is that just a lot of luck, or Felix Felicis — JKR: Or, the map helped. MA: Yep, yeah. You can see them sort of answering and joking with each other JKR: And the map flickering into life here and there when they got closer and closer, and finally they hit upon the exact right word combination and it just erupts. And Fred-george find the map on a drawer marked "Confiscated and Highly Dangerous". So they of course choose it to take. I think what makes the most sense is that they were fiddling with the map like Snape because it was marked Confiscated & Highly Dangerous. But because Snape mentioned that he was a Professor when he tapped it he got insulted. But Fred and George are troublemaking students and so the map chose to help them instead. Also, remember what Lupin said? The owners of the map would have found it highly amusing to lure them out of school. So it is my headcanon that when they were in their final year leaving Hogwarts, they broke into Filch's office and placed the map in that specific drawer so mischief making students would come across it. I hardly think it likely that that such intelligent people left it lying around for no reason. Even if they were caught with it, it's a blank parchment and there's no need to confiscate it. So they must have left it on purpose because they were done with Hogwarts and didn't need it anymore.

Preetam Ozarde

I don't think you can consider the Fat Lady a person. This is what it says about the portraits: When a magical portrait is taken, the witch or wizard artist will naturally use enchantments to ensure that the painting will be able to move in the usual way. The portrait will be able to use some of the subject’s favourite phrases and imitate their general demeanour. Thus, Sir Cadogan’s portrait is forever challenging people to a fight, falling off its horse and behaving in a fairly unbalanced way, which is how the subject appeared to the poor wizard who had to paint him, while the portrait of the Fat Lady continues to indulge her love of good food, drink and tip-top security long after her living model passed away. However, neither of these portraits would be capable of having a particularly in-depth discussion about more complex aspects of their lives: they are literally and metaphorically two-dimensional. They are only representations of the living subjects as seen by the artist. So the Fat Lady is only reacting the way she would have if she was alive and a real person because her general demeanour was like that when she was alive. House elves are living things so you can consider them people.

Preetam Ozarde

I think Hermione is just thinking logically with regards to Scabber's and Lavender's pet. Since she always relies on logic, she is tactless sometimes. Makes sense given her character but she was being really insensitive. This is what JKR said about Fred & George and the map. It's part of a mugglenet interview: MA: How did they figure out how to work the map, the exact word combination? Is that just a lot of luck— JKR: Or, the map helped. MA: Yep, yeah. You can see them sort of answering and joking with each other. JKR: And the map flickering into life here and there when they got closer and closer, and finally they hit upon the exact right word combination and it just erupts. And Fred-george find the map on a drawer marked "Confiscated and Highly Dangerous". So they of course choose to take it and start messing with it. I think it also makes sense since the map also gave instructions to Harry using a speech bubble on how to use the hidden entrance. I really love the concept of the Fidelius charm. How you can hide a secret within a person and no one but that person can choose to confide in others. Also, how funny to hear that James and Sirius were bigger trouble makers than Fred and George.

Stephanie

Hey Veggie, loving the book club! One thing I've never liked that was changed in the movies is the three broomsticks scene, I understand they didn't have the set yet and probably wouldn't want to spend the money for one scene, but why would a pub close itself to children on one of the 3 or 4 weekends that children are in town? You'd think Hogwarts visits would be profitable, especially that close to Christmas. Also, not to start _that_ conversation again, but Snape is pretty mean to Hermione, too, it's not just Neville who he bullies, just my two cents! Anyway, can't wait to see how you feel about future scenes, the changes between book and movie truly do start in this book!

Hawwah

"Lavender can’t have been dreading it because she didn’t expect him to die" That's not how fear works. Fear is often irrational. Lots of people are afraid of flying, myself included, even though it's widely known that flying is statistically much safer than other means of transport. When these people are boarding a plane, are they *expecting* to die? Of course not, they wouln't board it in the first place if that was the case. But that doesn't stop them from feeling anxious during the flight.

Hawwah

Professor Snape was very lenient with Hermione. She was extremely disrespectful to him and continued talking out of turn even when he told her repeatedly not to do that. It's also worth noting that when Neville behaves in class, he has absolutely zero problems with Professor Snape.

Hawwah

I really wish these details were included in the books. I'm not a fan of a one million snippets of information scattered all over the place.

Garry (Not Jerry)

“Dread” has a slightly different meaning than simply anxiety. It implies that you are fearful about something that you *know*is going to happen. For example, you can be “dreading” going to an in interview, or “dread” having to have a difficult conversation with someone. In this case, lavender did not know that Binky was going to die, and she had no reason to suspect that he was going to die, because he was not old. His death actually came as quite a shock. Therefore she was not dreading Binky dying.

Hawwah

Hey Garry! This is such an interesting piece of information to me as an English learner. I indeed wasn't aware of the slight difference in meaning. I stand corrected and take my previous comment back. I'm glad I learned something new.

Bennet

Hi Veggie, till now I've been a silent viewer, but I really love your Idea of the Book Club and just couldn't resist joining you on this journey! One of my favourite things in these books have always been the Quidditch Matches as I felt like I could really feel the excitement when reading, but maybe this was just due to me being pretty young when I first read them. From the 3rd Film onwards, we don't really get a lot of Quidditch Scenes which I find is a pity as they could've covered some of the best moments in these books, one of which we'll get to see in a couple Chapters. I also feel like Quidditch was very poorly done until now, resolving in people not understanding that the snitch doesn't just win the game, but gives 150 Points or that there are indeed many rules, but the Films just don't feel like caring about them and just end up throwing people into the towers on the sides! Something as dangerous as this would never have happened in the books! PS: While watching your Book reviews I find myself thinking on the regular "If only he knew!". Many Questions or theories you have will be answered in the upcoming books, but I think most people won't give you clear answers yet because it would spoil some things. Love your Reactions! Greetings from Germany!

S1lm4r1l

You get the respect you give. Snape decided that arguing with his students would be a better usage of the start of the lesson than actually finding out what they already knew and had covered. Hermione volunteered this information to help Snape out. She was rude, but constructively so. After that, Snape decided to belittle the students for their work, criticise Lupin's teaching and have them copy out notes from the textbooks. 10/10 best teacher ever.

itsanursething

Maybe I'm missing something, but I never thought of Hermione as being rude in this scene. She was trying to answer his questions and each time started with, "please sir." That always seemed respectful to me .

NOam Gold-Utting

Just joined the Patreon and wanted wanted to add my thoughts to the whole Snape situation. I think a lot of people lose sight of the power differential at play here. Snape is an adult wizard who is a teacher and head of one of the Hogwarts houses. Harry and Co are children who are just wanting to learn his subject. Imagine knowing next to nothing about a world and all of a sudden one of your teachers is asking you questions, purposefully trying to trip you up and get you to make a mistake, is insulting you and your dead father and its a known thing that they are biased and unfairly assign punishments based on your house. That person might be a tragic figure who has their reasons, but to children they are just an adult who is being mean and abusive. I think some people try to justify Snape's abuse because the are uncomfortable liking the villain. Personally I've always felt that allowing Snape to remain a teacher seriously calls Dumbledore's judgement as headmaster into question. I could mention more but I won't spoil. I'll continue to comment on the horribleness that is Snape as we go.

Dara Jeeling

welcome! just be adding my few pieces (and not going into this to far either) - Dumbledore for me is also very (well how to put it...) special. I mean - come on. You hire a Gilderoy Lockhart? You set up security measures to the philosophers stone that cna be breached by first years? I do not even know where to begin with him. So yeah, as said, welcome! I h´think we might share some ideas about Snape (and I can say that and still state he is my favorite character)

NOam Gold-Utting

Thanks! Ya, Dumbledore definitely makes some interesting choices. Personally I think he is so focused on the greater good that he sometimes forgets he's also supposed to be running a school. Nothing wrong with loving villain as long as you can recognize that just because you enjoy them as a character doesn't make them a hero.

Hawwah

Professor Snape is not a villain. According to Wikipedia: "Random House Unabridged Dictionary defines such a character as "a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime; scoundrel; or a character in a play, novel, or the like, who constitutes an important evil agency in the plot". The antonym of a villain is a hero. The villain's structural purpose is to serve as the opposition of the hero character and their motives or evil actions drive a plot along. In contrast to the hero, who is defined by feats of ingenuity and bravery and the pursuit of justice and the greater good, a villain is often defined by their acts of selfishness, evilness, arrogance, cruelty, and cunning, displaying immoral behavior that can oppose or pervert justice." As you can clearly see, this definition doesn't describe Severus Snape at all. It's actually the exact opposite of who Severus Snape is and what his purpose in the story is. Severus Snape is one of the heroes of the Harry Potter saga - not because "we enjoy him as a character" (what a strawman argument!) - but because he is "defined by feats of ingenuity and bravery and the pursuit of justice", which is a characteristic of a hero, as seen in the definition above.

Hawwah

@itsadancething Professor Snape told Hermione not to speak out of turn - repeatedly. She ignored him and continued talking anyway. That's disrespectful and rude.

Clair C

Agree that he's not a villain, but he's also not a hero, he being a bully doesn't mean villain. That's one of my favorit things about him, despite not liking him as a person, he 's one of the most profound characters.

Johanna Wilson

You can be a “hero” and still be a terrible person. My grandfather was a war hero. Saved a bunch of lives in multiple wars. He was also a pedo. I always think of him when people call Snape a hero. Sure, Voldemort wouldn’t have been defeated without him, but he was still an absolute POS.

Fiur

I like the chapters where we get to see more of the Wizarding World itself...like all the creatures that Lupin brings in for DADA class or the amazing things that you can buy in Hogsmeade especially the sweets at Honeydukes. Most of them sound delicious. However im not sure if all of them are vegan. I could also imagine that you really liked the chapter "Grim Defeat" because of Hufflepuffs glorious victory at Quidditch. ;) Also you surely did notice that Cedric Diggory already gets mentioned here. As always...Keep up the great work, Veggie and Greetings from Germany.

Hawwah

Let's consult Wikipedia again. "A hero (feminine: heroine) is a real person or a main fictional character who, in the face of danger, combats adversity through feats of ingenuity, courage, or strength. (...) The original hero type of classical epics did such things for the sake of glory and honor. Post-classical and modern heroes, on the other hand, perform great deeds or selfless acts for the common good instead of the classical goal of wealth, pride, and fame." (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero) *PERFORMS GREAT DEEDS OR SELFLESS ACTS FOR THE COMMON GOOD.* This describes Severus Snape to a t. He is a hero, whether his haters like it or not. Johanna, I am really sorry hearing about your grandfather. However, I don't see what he has to do with Professor Snape. A pedophile is someone who selfishly hurts children for his own personal gain. That's literally the opposite of the character of Professor Snape. He never hurt a child - or anyone else for that matter. On the contrary - he was the teacher most concerned with the safety of his students, he repeatedly put his own life at risk to protect them and in the end sacrificed everything, including his own reputation, to keep Hogwarts students safe during Voldemort's rule of terror. That's the exact opposite of selfish. He sacrificed everything and gained nothing, and he did it simply because it was the right thing to do. If you're comparing him to someone who purposefully sacrifices others for his own selfish interests, you're being dishonest.

Hawwah

Patreon didn't send me any notifications about your comments so I had no idea this dicussion was still going on. I'll try to get around to answering your points and questions.

Hawwah

@Janie "Neville was so scared of Snape that he was his worst fear. What would you call it then?" I would call it being a child. What is the worst thing Professor Snape can realistically do to Neville? Scold him for bad work in class, give him a detention, give him bad marks. Those are a child's fears. Now compare it to adult fears of your loved ones being murdered (Mrs. Weasley) or tortured, or going missing, or dying of some horrible incurable disease, or... or... When I was a child, I was scared of my teachers, too. You have no idea how I wish an unpleasant teacher was the worst thing I ever encountered in life. I would have been extremely lucky and privileged if that was the case. I sincerely believe an adult Neville would chuckle at his foolish childhood fears just as I chuckle at mine. "do you really think that Snape's behaviour towards him is ok? " Yes, I really think that. OK means fine, acceptable or adequate. Not great, not terrible. I'm not saying that Professor Snape is a perfect or ideal teacher. I agree that there are things he could have done better. I'm also willing to admit that a less strict and more patient approach may have worked better with Neville. However, I can't agree with the idea that being a less than a perfect teacher makes Professor Snape a bad person. Those are two different and unrelated concepts.

Jacqueline Chaiton

I try not to respond to these about Snape anymore but since we’re throwing out definitions, here is the Miriam Webster dictionary definition of bully: a blustering, browbeating person especially : one who is habitually cruel, insulting, or threatening to others who are weaker, smaller, or in some way vulnerable Emphasis on “one who is habitually cruel, insulting, or threatening to others who are weaker, smaller, or in some way vulnerable”. This also is Snape to a t. He set the tone for his relationship with Harry in that first potions lesson which Noam alluded to in his comment by singling him out for no apparent reason. He also very did not sacrifice everything because it was the right thing, he did it because of his guilt over Lily.

Kunzite Blossom

Let's be honest. They make a squib clean the castle when there's plenty of people who can clean the castle with magic. Does it really surprise anyone they would send a squib to look for a supposed murderer?

itsanursething

@ Kunzite I never thought they were making Filch clean the castle. I was always under the impression that he *really* wanted to be there. He wanted magic so badly that he looked into Kwikspell. My understanding was that this was the only way he could truly stay connected to the magical world and sought out the position. Maybe that's just my head canon though!

Lukas

Sorry Hawwah, but your own citations speak against your arguments: "a villain is often defined by their acts of selfishness, evilness, arrogance, cruelty, and cunning, displaying immoral behavior that can oppose or pervert justice." While Snapes cunning is mostly used for the "good" side, he clearly acts arrogant and cruel against Harry, Hermione and Neville (and probably others that we don't know about, since we only see the world through Harry's eyes). And this very behaviour against them is often opposing or perverting justice. He hates Harry for no reason other than being James' son. In at least one situation he destroys the potion Harry handed in on purpose and let's him fail the assignment. That's perverted justice right there. He's certainly not THE villain of the Harry Potter saga, but he's enough of a villain to be a convincing red herring in the first and sixth book. And as the others already mentioned, there are lots of other negative terms perfectly fitting his character. He may have some streaks of heroism, but they are only inspired by his failed love for Lily and cannot hide away the rest of his character.

Jake M

@Garry Autocorrect messed it up though, I swear I typed Garry XD

Clair C

Yeah, I agree in parts, but I still see a lot moments of him being a bully, like in de fifth book when he sabotage harry's potions in class, or when draco (or was crabbe or goyle, don't remember) cast a spell on hermione before potions class, and her teeth grows, so harry or ron cast a spell on them too, and snape give detention just for harry/ron, and says that there's no difference in hermione (but her teeth are almost in her belly, i think), he should had given detention to who cast the spell in hermione too. For me these two things (that I remember now) are really bully moments, so I still se him as a bully. I don't remember if has another bully moment, but the rest (for me) is just him being a bad teacher. All of these things, in my opinion, is what makes him such a great character, very deep. He has these bully moments, the moments that he is a bad teacher and others that he is a good teacher. He loved lilly and hated james, so he always see the james in harry, but when he's dying he wants to see harry's eyes. His relationship with dumbledore is amazing to read when you know everything, because I belive he doesn't really likes him, but he keeps his words until after death (I think that there's moments when snape hates alvo but that he's also truly a dumbledore men). I belive that he's one of the best written characters that I ever read (and i read a lot hahahahaha). Sorry if i wrote something wrong, I'm still learning english.

Isabel Nord

Hi just joined for the book club. Excited to be here. Prisoner of Azkaban is my favorite early book and half blood prince is my favorite later book. This has always been one of my least favorite movies because they leave so much out which at least to me make a lot of things kind of confusing if you hadn't read the book before seeing it. and you don't get as much of that really satisfying moment when everything fully clicks together from the movie like you do from the book. And all the quidditch in the movie that you get in the books. Ps you don't need to read my comment in the video just thought I would pop in and support a bit of the content creation. Keep up the great work!

S1lm4r1l

Snape constantly has to be coaxed, manipulated, cajoled into doing the right thing, and even then often in an immoral way. He's not an angel, or a hero. He's a deeply flawed human being who allowed his childhood to dictate his adulthood. A person who was against Voldemort solely because Voldemort hurt someone he liked. He had no qualms with Voldemort until that was a possibility. He did not disagree with Voldemort on moral or political grounds at all.

Annamarie schwirian

The scenes in hogsmead are some of my favorite in the series

Jacqueline Chaiton

I never noticed this until it was pointed out to me in a fanfic, but did you notice that Marcus Flint is still here? It’s probably just an error on the authors part but in Stone he’s described as being a 6th year, which means he should have graduated at the end of Chamber. So he either failed 6th or 7th year.

Kattie Martin

Lupin casually telling Harry that Snape is a potions master, another incident on Halloween, Snape revealing his suspicions, Sir Cadogan guarding the common room, Filtch being able to fix a magical painting when he's a squib, Cedric Diggory making his first appearance, Ron being the world's greatest friend, a black dog in the stadium, so many things to think about in this section. Also, am I the only one who wants a shirt that says: "I'm Head Boy!" -Percy

Jake M

I find it slightly odd that we did not hear about a current head boy before Percy- we know his older brother Bill was head boy during his final year, but what about for the two years Percy was a Pinhead? You'd think the head boy and girl would have had an important role "protecting" the students from troll and Basilisk attacks in previous books, but they seem mysteriously absent- even Lockhart did more, albeit reluctantly given how much time it took away from preening himself. The only difference with his new role seems to be the added job of watching students in their sleep. And assuming there are new ones chosen each year, who are the replacement Gryffindor prefects, now that Percy is Humongous Bighead? Also, keep in mind that here Harry thinks he sees the Grim *in the stands* at quidditch, whereas in the film it's some contrived shapes in the clouds. It's a subtle but important change. P.S. Can you imagine if a supply teacher had set you an essay in real life? There'd be murder 😂

Helen

I have always been confused at the twins giving the marauder’s map to Harry. They indicate not needing it anymore because they’ve learned all they can from it. But what about the function of monitoring where teachers are… with the amount of mischief they get into, surely this would still be useful. They are only in their 5th year out of 7. Also, agree it’s rather insulting to give it to Harry and not Ron. Yes, Harry has the greater need at the time but Ron would have shared with his best friend.

Nix001

Please don't worry about frequent movie comparisons as you did last time. I think they are a fascinating part of your second and fuller Potter experience and I find them enjoyable. Almost inevitable anyway! I think you will find the full history of the Marauder's Map and its authors a good example of book vs film deficit's!

SpeedyBrandon95

Finally commenting for the first time despite being here since the beginning of the book club and I’m enjoying it so much that I now listen to the book as well (Fry version). First, I feel bad for Oliver Wood because he’s in the final year therefore his last chance to win the Quidditch Cup and that seems to be his world because Quidditch is all we really know about him. It seems after the loss to Hufflepuff that he might never achieve his goal. The main thing I enjoyed was the extra details and uses of the Marauders map, especially guiding Harry to Hogsmead, giving him the spell needed to get through the passageway.

Nic ☦︎

Lupin is such a great character. Him being the mentor and even father figure that harry has never had must be a great feeling for harry and for lupin also since its like him being reunited with james. Absolutely love his interactions with snape since we know about the relationship that the marauders and snape had in the past, but i am sure that that is a discussion that will come up later down the line so thats all i’ll say for now.

Jake M

Does bring up the question of how often they used it though, given they never spotted their brother sleeping with a 'Peter Pettigrew'. Unless they did and simply never said anything about it.

Jake M

And then his request of Harry in the last book while they're at Shell Cottage is so cute...turns their arc into a full circle.

itsanursething

Whew! In my copy of the book these three chapters combined are 75 pages long! I took notes as I was reading because I knew there would be so much to talk about, and I was right, I have a very long list. But if I touch on every point, I’d end up writing an essay (kind of like Hermione would), so I’ll try to reign in my thoughts a little bit. I think the most important aspect of these chapters is the scene in the Three Broomsticks. Harry, Ron, Hermione (and the reader) learn A LOT about what happened leading up to and following Harry’s parents’ murder. If you don’t know the ending of the book (and even if you do) it’s absolutely heartbreaking. I also try to keep in mind, James, Lily, and Sirius were all 21 when everything with Voldemort went down. Also, how the heck did Fred and George figure out the correct passcode to open the Marauder’s Map when they were in FIRST YEAR?? They really are much smarter than people give them credit for.

Loveinthehat

This is a spoiler but Veggie said he doesn’t read replies anyway But to be fair the only one who sees Peter on the map is Lupin, I don’t think Harry ever sees him either so it’s possible that maybe the marauders can only see each other?

Loveinthehat

Well since the marauders loved pranking people and were mischief makers, I wouldn’t be surprised if the map sensed that Fred and George were up to mischief and would give them hints on how to use it, since the map also insults certain people I can imagine it uses that same thing to communicate in other ways as well

itsanursething

Huh! I never thought of that. Very cool!!

Hawwah

Let's talk about the Fat Lady. Dumbledore said she'd refused to let Black in without the password. The way I understand it, she could have let him in but chose not to. Meaning she has free will. That makes a person in my opinion. Not a human being, but a person nonetheless. Like the house elves are not humans, but they are persons. We learned that the Fat Lady was very distraught by the attack, like any person would. Also, the other portraits - except for Sir Cadogan - were too afraid to take over her job, because they feared getting attacked and possibly destroyed (= exhibiting fear of death). That's why, in my opinion, Sirius Black's stabbing of the Fat Lady was actually a violent attack on a person and not mere destruction of property. So let's take a moment to appreciate the Fat Lady. She put the students' safety before her own and that's not an easy thing to do. There are some things I don't like about the Gryffindor house - we get there when we get there - but credit where credit's due. Bravery is their best defining trait and the Fat Lady proved it. She's a real one and easily the MVP of this Book Club.

Annamarie schwirian

Sir Cadogan is a comical and interesting character to me. Yes his personality is over the top but he's actually very interesting. The students interaction with him always made me wonder why they didn't talk more to the other portraits. I mean you have hundreds of wizards and witches available for advice or to give you homework help. I think a smart student would use them to their advantage.

Methanoutput

I never thought about this! But i think you are absolutely right. For me in my head, portraits were always person "frozen" in time at the specific point they were drawn. I don't know if this is perfectly right, but i always thought about them like this. Sirius should also know, that the fat Lady probably was instructed, to not let him in, a little bit short-sighted from him. And i don't really know how other Gryffindors think about the fat Lady, but shouldn't they be quite fond of her? So Sirius being a Gryffindor, it is really weird that he acted so aggressive towards her, because he should also know, that it would give him no entrance to the dorm even if he slashed her. I mean i understand his frustration, that he can't get to Pettigrew but, that is not the right thing, to channel your anger into.

Jacqueline Chaiton

I saw a theory a while back about this that you can only see an animagus on the map if you know the person is an animagus, which I like a lot.

Josh Z

I believe that he failed his NEWTS and thus had to repeat his final year. It was one of the snippets of information JKR has mentioned over the years in her many interviews and posts about the series.

Josh Z

Okay, Veggie, since you started reading this series, I've been talking about how the movies butcher Ron’s character. I have to point out the first truly unforgivable example. When Snape calls Hermione an insufferable know it all, Ron’s reaction is very different between the book and movie. In the movie he casually agrees with Snape. (”He's got a point ya know.) in the book he says “you asked her a question and she answered it! Why ask if you don't want to be told!” It's these kinds of changes that makes my blood boil because it fundamentally changes the dynamic between Ron and Hermione, and makes people who haven't read the books think that they don't care about each other. Unfortunately this is the first of many situations like this and I will probably rant about many of them as we go along because it's awful to see such disrespect. Phew rant over

Will

Hufflepuffs rise again! I bet you're happy about that Hufflepuff's quidditch win. I love how you always root for the Hufflepuff characters perhaps more than others would. I wish I could feel the same way about my own house, Slytherin. These books failed to show any positive aspects about Slytherins but I still love my house. Question for you Veggie: If you were in Hogwarts, do you think you would play quidditch and if so, which position? Personally for me, I think I would be a seeker. I'm really interested to hear how you felt about the interactions between Snape and Lupin in this chapter. I always feel that even though they both clearly dislike each others, there is also a mutual respect. What do you think? Also did you notice how Lupin reacted when Harry mentioned Lily and Sirius. I love those little hints about his past relationships with them. Speaking of Sirius, after you know the whole story and how he's innocent, you just feel really bad for him when everyone thinks that he betrayed James and Lily. But that may just be me, as he is my favorite character in the series. Also, I absolutely loved Peeves in these chapters, he's hilarious. I'm so sorry that this comment got so long, I had more to say than I thought.

Garry (Not Jerry)

This was actually corrected in later editions of the book to say that Marcus was in fifth year in book 1. Not sure about the audiobook versions.

Jacqueline Chaiton

Not a fan of that change, NGL. I think it’s more interesting that he failed his NEWTs.

Gothic Llama

Yay, we finally meet the Marauders and get a nice moment between Harry and Lupin (it must mean so much to him to be able to meet his best firend's son)! I must admit, sometimes I don't like how dumb these kids seem to be; I realize they are 13, but still - like, if Snape really poisoned Lupin's drink or did something suspicious, Lupin would've known as he is the DADA teacher, even the best one so far, so he'd know how to protect himself; besides, he's an adult! Also, Ginny you're a sweetheart, but maybe stop with the singing cards, we all remember the last year's Valentine's disaster. Btw, have you thought how Ginny's 2nd year at Hogwarts went? I imagine she was struggling and was lonely, as during her 1st year she was posessed by Voldemort, so she didn't get to form any friendships (like Harry did with Ron and later Hermione), she was constantly stressed, probably had memory loss, had to slaughter the chickens (at 11 years old! that's horrible!), was ignored by Ron because she's a lame sister and all, and maybe even people were gossiping about her. I wonder if somebody figured she should go to therapy. Last thing - because you know from the movies that Scabbers is Pettigrew, have you realised why Ron's first spell in Philosopher's Stone didn't work (you know, the "turn this stupid fat rat yellow" one)? Scabbers wasn't actually a rat! That's some nice forshadowing.

Florian

And here we got the introduction of the marauders map. An Item that is bound to create some weird situations, some would say even plot holes. There is another item which does have similar problems. JKR did create quite a few errors, due to forgetting what she wrote in earlier books and not doing research xD

Hawwah

Agreed. I understand Black's vendetta against Pettigrew, but the Fat Lady did nothing wrong. She didn't deserve such a vicious attack.

Dinsdale_

This might be a strange opinion, and I'm only really half serious, but I have always wanted a little more justice for Ron in the Scabbers situation! I remember being young, reading these chapters for the first time, and feeling so sorry for Ron and Scabbers. An old pet can get really shook by another pet coming along without being attacked, so I was stressed for Ron. I know Crookshanks was right in the end, and Peter is icky... but I still can't help feeling a little sorry, all these re-reads later! Justice For Scabbers!! (definitely not Peter lol).

Kunzite Blossom

Thoughts on the Hogsmeade trip? The first time he goes in the movie he is under the cloak but in the book he isn't. Which makes the eavesdropping a lot different, since Ron and Hermione actually got to hear everything first hand. Harry didn't have to explain it. Although I have one theory. What would Sirius do with baby Harry if Hagrid gave Harry to Sirius? Would he have still gone after Peter (which is the series of events that put him in Azkaban). How different could Harry's life have been.

Kunzite Blossom

You know, at this point in the books I agree with Jonas. We always look at them as "frozen" in a time. In the later books when we learn about some of the portraits in Dumbledore's office, even Dumbledore's own, Ariana's etc. We know they learn FROM the actual person. It's stated Dumbledore would talk to his portrait for (I believe) hours. So we know while they are purely a painting, they have the personality and thoughts of the people they are painted after. So while they are a painting, they can very well act like they are human or get scared because its what they are shown. It does make me wonder if they can start to grow new opinions. Like a painting from 100 years ago, the person may have totally different views about certain topics then someone now. Does that painting grow to adjust? Or will they always have the same as the real person?

Lisette C.

Regarding the scene between Lupin and Harry.. It almost feels like Lupin (much like Sirius) sees James instead of Harry here. He knew instantly that Harry was worried about seeming weak and reassured him. And when Harry admitted to hearing his mother dying, Lupin reaches for his shoulder, before realising that he doesn't have that kind of relationship with Harry and stopping himself. It could also just be affection for the son of one of his best friends, but it still makes me wonder if the likeness is really that prominent.

Hawwah

Do you have any theory why Lupin never contacted Harry before?

Nic ☦︎

Dont know. Maybe he just didnt want to intrude harrys life in anyway or make him feel conflicted or put him in a dangerous situation.

Rebecca May

The scene in Lupin’s office is one of those scenes that I think was done really beautifully in both the film and the book. It’s wonderful seeing Harry and Lupin really connecting for the first time – although I love the films addition of Lupin saying that “Lily had a way of seeing the beauty in others, even, and perhaps, most importantly, when they could not see it in themselves.” It’s one of my favourite quotes from the film and even the entire series. I’m also really glad the film didn’t include that whole thing about Harry being worried that Professor Snape might poison Lupin. I mean, for goodness’ sake Harry, I know Snape can be unpleasant, but he has saved your life at least once, and the idea that he might be petty and stupid enough to try and poison a colleague because he wants his job… Just, ugh, please excuse me while I go and bang my head against a brick wall. That being said, I'd forgotten that in the Defence Against the Dark Arts lesson, Professor Snape asks for an essay on recognising and *killing* werewolves, rather than simply recognising them as he says in the film. I know Snape is probably coming from an angle of self-defence after a werewolf has transformed, but it still made me wince.

Rebecca May

The relationship between Snape and Lupin is one of my favourite parts of this book. I love that they're (mostly) able to bury the hatchet and behave like adults with a mutual level of professionalism and respect. I also think Lupin still feels ashamed of how he didn't step in when Snape was being bullied as a child, so I think you see him making such an effort to be kind even when offered some level of provocation - though he doesn't let himself get walked over either. Looking forward to Veggie's thoughts on this, thanks for mentioning it! :)

Will

Out of all the marauders, Snape probably tolerates Lupin the most xd

Rebecca May

Probably! Not really hard to see why, imo xD

Michelle Linardis

I do enjoy seeing the Severus/Remus dynamic in these books, especially because they do have quite a difficult history, from what you already know. There is always that tension between them, but remember, both of them are about 33-34 years old in this book, and not the 50s age of the actors the films displayed. Harry's perspective is interesting to note and his assumptions can be quite funny. But as the films go, the books tell us so much more. And Snape teaching DADA - He gets straight to the point, and I love that.

S1lm4r1l

Fred and George have so much better things to be doing than using the map to watch Ron in his dormitory.

Saiyasha

Two things that I like here much more then in the movie: Nr one, Cedric is already being introduced and fleshed out. he clearly has a deep personal sense of honor and sportsmanship, the fact that he tries to insist on a rematch _and_ the fact that no one begrudges him the win. not really, because they know that he would never have taken advantage of the Situation if he had realized what was happening. The other one is the Grimm. Why on earth did they have it appear in the clouds in the movie??? That would suggest that it _was_ an Omen, but it's not, it's just Sirius! This completly flies in the face of the clever switcharound the book tried to do, with Harry constantly seeing Sirius and thinking it is the Grimm.

Dara Jeeling

I am laughing so hard at the " Excuse me while I go and bang my head against a brick wall" part. THIS exactly. Thank you for this laugh! I know they are 13 year old kids - but please... I think this is sort of going back to book one, when they thought Snape was "up to no good" and by now they should have learned that he is unpleasant and stern BUT he is the one who gets all the exzra brewing to revive those who were petrified.

Dara Jeeling

Which of the three things to approach... I will try to hold each one sort, I promise! a) Ron stating (after Sirius attack) "why couldn't Black have hidden in Snapes office? He could have finished him off for us" - am I the only none who thinks this is a dark thought? b) Crookshanks and Scabbers - I always found it intresting how Crooks seems to be so fixated on the rat. And him trying to sneak into the boy dorm before Quidditch. That was one of the things I remember when reading the book for the first time - it seemed so unnatural. c) also in the Marauders Map chatpter... I think it is so sad that Harry realizes who he is hearing whenever the dementors approach. And then.. This is sort of the first time he can her his moms voice, since he was 1 year old. And it says he dewlls on the sound of her voice. Like it's something to remember her by - even if it is terrible.

Rebecca May

@Hawwah I think the persistent rejection Lupin experienced throughout his life had probably long internalized itself by this point... There was probably a part of him that sadly felt like Harry would be better off without him, or feared rejection if he reached out. Besides, I doubt he'd have contacted Harry before he knew about the wizarding world, as Dumbledore clearly meant for him *not* to know anything about it before he turned 11. Just my two cents. :)

Rebecca May

You're welcome! xD Honestly though... I know he's 13 and determined as hell to hate Snape and/or believe that he's totally evil, but neither of those factors excuse the utter stupidity in thinking that Snape would poison a fellow teacher. Harry can be so frustrating sometimes! I have to say though, I love how Lupin shut that suggestion down FAST. Respect.

Rebecca May

Given their history I'm almost surprised that Sirius didn't hide in Snape's office. -_- But yes, such a dark thought for anyone to have, let alone a 13-year-old!

S1lm4r1l

Nicolas, Lupin lost everything in the 1st Wizarding War. He lost his 3-4 best friends. He found himself alone, with a dangerous and infectious disease and regularly unable to find paid employment, treated as a 2nd class citizen. Its why Lupin isn't afraid to say Voldemort's name. Voldemort already took everything from him. I'm quite certain he convinced himself that Harry was growing up happy and healthy and probably wouldn't want to talk to or meet him. Furthermore, if he contacted him before the age of 11. He'd have been violating the Statute of Secrecy.

S1lm4r1l

Lupin manages to gain the respect and enthusiasm of seemingly the whole school after only having been a teacher for a few months. He seems to have a much better aptitude and knows how to get the best from a class much more than a number of the other teachers. He definitely wouldn't waste time pointlessly arguing with his students like Trelawney and Snape. Speaking of which, Lupin is nothing but respectful to Snape, but he shows Lupin nothing but barely concealed hostility and suspicion. Not only does Snape attempt to expose Lupin by having the class study Werewolves, he has them write assignments on how to kill Werewolves. Furthermore, he denies Lupin the opportunity to present Werewolves and himself in a more sympathetic light. These are human beings with a horrible medical condition after all. People are free to think otherwise, but in my opinion Snape is an awful human being. On a happier note. I have a theory. Sirius deliberately chose to enter the castle at Halloween so that he'd be able to enter the common room when it was completely empty, find what he was looking for and leave again with nobody any the wiser. He'd probably been waiting for months for this circumstance. Small wonder he was annoyed with the Fat Lady. We get lots of information about James Potter and Sirius Black. We learn that Dumbledore knew one of the Potter's friends was a traitor, because Dumbledore himself had a spy in Voldemort's camp who informed him. Dumbledore offered to be their secret keeper and L + J said "No." Why? Personally, I think James would've been disgusted that Dumbledore didn't trust his friends as much as he did. Hence the "Black would rather die than tell where we are." Nothing else explains this decision to not use Dumbledore as Secret Keeper in my view, but I'd be interested to hear what you think. What did you think of Diggory?

Mordimer

Every person that is bullied dreams about his bully's death. Snape was bullying kids on regular bases.

Dara Jeeling

still... as a 13 year old to have that thought.... And do not get me wrong, I am all against bullying and yes, Snape is not pleasant. Maybe I was different. The girls in my (all gorls school) who kept destroying my homework and pushing me made me turn into myself. I did not want anyone dead - all I wanted is for them to leave me be. And when one of them needed help, I still provided what I could, even though when I turned they kicked me. So yes, I can understand how frustrating it is to have someone make you feel sick when you think of them. Still for me it's not a reason to wish them something bad. More like, wish them healing - if they have ot bully someone to make them feel better.

Dara Jeeling

can I ask something? Werewolfs in Harry Potter (when not treated with the Wolfsbane Potion) are dangerous, because they only follow the call of nature. So they will attack, once they are transformed (as far as I understand). That said does not mean any person who can transform has to be a bad / unpleasant person. But how would you expect Lupin to present a transformed (untreated) werewolf in a sympathetic light? I understand that being a victim of a violent assault (by a Werewolf) to be turned into one is not a great thing - but how can one be sympathetic to people who have this codition and do not make sure to stay out of society for the duration of theit forced turn? I can be sympathetic to those who have been turned against their free will. But I can not see a transformed werewolf (untreated) as anything I'd have sympathy for. If t's him or me - I guess I'd choose my hide any day. (I also do not see Snape telling the class to ~what was your wording~ "should be exterminated like rats or culled like badgers rather than living individuals" he just wants the kids to understand how to make sure they can come out of an encounter alive) - but that is just my personal 5 cent and I am sorry if we have a different understanding on that topic. That does not mean it is okay that Snape jumps to that lesson and not just continues the plan. And yes, he did this class for the reason to expose Lupin - but then... Lupin is not reliable in taking the Potion he is provided with (on Dumbledores orders - just so you I realize Snape is not brewing it out of his godwill) and thereby being a risk to everyone in this school. and tbh I can not get into that one yet - but HOW would you react if you had geon through a person with the history of those 2 (or actually those 5) and then you are not only forced to be their co worker but to provide for them

Giorgia M

In chapter 9, when Snape insults Hermione for “speaking out of turn” I think it really shows the difference between book and movie Ron. He jumps to Hermiones defence instead of agreeing with Snape, that scene sticks out to me so much upon movie rewatch. Ron would never do that!!! He’s a loyal friend (he also hates Snape) and it’s one of those things where you can insult your own family but outsiders aren’t allow to try. Ron also makes a great point, why ask a question if you don’t want it answered?

S1lm4r1l

> "That said does not mean any person who can transform has to be a bad / unpleasant person." And do you think Snape cares about that distinction? Do you think the students will be able to sufficiently grasp that, if Snape presents Werewolves as dangerous beasts that one should know how to kill? > "But how would you expect Lupin to present a transformed (untreated) werewolf in a sympathetic light?" By making it clear that the Werewolf has no idea who they are, what they're doing when they transform without the potion. By making clear, that yes, they are werewolves and werewolves are dangerous, but they are still human beings too. His death eater days with dreams of 'purifying the wizarding race' aren't as far behind him as some might suggest. > "but how can one be sympathetic to people who have this codition and do not make sure to stay out of society for the duration of theit forced turn?" How exactly are Werewolves supposed to guarantee that? Most of them are poor, second class, homeless, they do not have buildings like the Shrieking Shack that they can use to prevent their wolf form hunting. > "But I can not see a transformed werewolf (untreated) as anything I'd have sympathy for." The Wolfsbane potion is complex. Complex means lots of ingredients. Ingredients are expensive. "Not many wizards are up to making it." The idea that any werewolf but Lupin can get his hands on the Wolfsbane potion regularly is ludicrous. > "I also do not see Snape telling the class to ~what was your wording~ "should be exterminated like rats or culled like badgers rather than living individuals" he just wants the kids to understand how to make sure they can come out of an encounter alive" By training them to kill. > "Lupin is not reliable" We don't know that yet. And Lupin only forgets to take his potion because he sees 1 of his best friends he thought dead for 13 years on the Marauder's Map. And sees Sirius Black attack him and Ron and take them down into the secret passage of the Whomping Willow. Lupin doesn't think about himself or his condition, his No.1 desire at that point is to save Ron from Black. > "but HOW would you react if you had geon through a person with the history of those 2" I certainly wouldn't be taking it out on the students, or trying to involve them in some petty game. Snape's hostility is so blatant even the Trio start questioning why Snape has it in for Lupin after only 3 months at Hogwarts. Snape lacks any professionalism whatsoever. > "and then you are not only forced to be their co worker but to provide for them" Dumbledore is the one who hired Lupin. Dumbledore is the one forcing Snape to brew the Wolfsbane potion. But who is Snape obviously angry with? Lupin.

Jake M

From what I gathered from Lupin in book 6, werewolves were shunned by society, so that's why they're bitter and resentful. They're not intrinsically evil- Greyback is mentioned as the exception who likes to hunt for pleasure, not just primal instinct. The reason they're supposedly on Voldemort's side is because he promised to give them freedoms, much like the giants, which wizarding law has stymied. Whether it's true or not...

Jake M

I imagine if Hogwarts did standard lessons like maths and English, he'd have learnt what a rhetorical question is? 😆

S1lm4r1l

We're told Umbridge was able to push through some Anti-werewolf legislation that makes it almost impossible for them to get jobs. Certainly Lupin being a Werewolf (despite all the precautions Dumbledore takes,) is enough to warrant his probable dismissal, which is the reason he gives for resigning. Jumping rather than Dumbledore being forced to sack him. Furthermore Lupin never actually attacks anyone all year.

Kunzite Blossom

I feel like maybe both. Sirius seemed to have the closest friendship with James and given he was made godfather to Harry just shows how close they were. Knowing Sirius was the one who suggested the switch in secret keeper must be a low blow for him knowing its his fault James and Lily died. In a way Harry does act a bit like James and looks so much like him, so it might be harder for Sirius to sometimes remember they are different. Sirius has to live with that guilt. Not that any of us could really fault him for doing what he thought would be safer. Lupin would have an easier time but there will probably still be moments where he could get lost in the old memories. Maybe just looking at Harry he could slip for a moment, but Lupin seemed to have a special friendship with Lily so it could be since Harry has his mothers eyes, Maybe that's what helps him remember Harry isn't James. We also have to remember, had James and Lily lived, Sirius and Lupin would have grown up with Harry. Sirius being his god father and Lupin basically being an uncle to Harry. It must be hard for Lupin to know he lost that kind of connection he could have had.

Hawwah

Hi Michelle! Just a little correction - the McGonagall/Neville incident isn't covered in these chapters. That actually takes place in chapter 14, after the second Blacks's attack. So this is a spoiler for Veggie. That being said, I absolutely agree with your opinion on McGonagall's punishment. I'm really curious what all the people who were so critical of Snape in the last Book Club will have to say about her.

Hawwah

@Mordimer If scolding misbehaving teenagers was bullying, the worst bully of the wizarding world would be Molly Weasley. Closely followed by Minerva McGonagall.

Rebecca May

@S1lm4r1l - You are making many assumptions both about Snape's character and this Defense Against the Dark Arts lesson, which are not supported by the text. All we are told about this lesson is that they spend most of the time taking notes on werewolves from the textbooks, and that Professor Snape requests an essay on how to recognize and kill werewolves. I personally believe that the aim of this assignment is so that the students will know how to defend themselves against a werewolf *after* they have transformed... But you have extrapolated this point to insinuate that Snape is in favor of werewolf genocide as some form of cleansing the wizard race. He was almost killed by a werewolf as a teenager... it's not unreasonable to want the students to know how to defend themselves when that same werewolf is currently teaching Hogwarts classes. Not only that, but Lupin stood by and watched Snape bullied relentlessly as a teenager, and the only other werewolf that Snape has personal knowledge of (Greyback) is a vicious, homicidal maniac. So it is perhaps unsurprising that Severus does not have an entirely favorable view of werewolves, given the amount of trauma he associates with them. To be clear, I am not arguing that Professor Snape's treatment of Lupin is particularly kind or at all professional, and I personally would have loved for Lupin to get the chance to teach the class about werewolves himself... I'm just trying to point out that extrapolating Snape's entire world view to such a drastic extent is rather unfair. (And by the way, you're correct that the Wolfsbane Potion is established as being a very complex potion... I don't think it unreasonable to suggest that adding another ingredient, like sugar, would indeed render it useless.)

Hawwah

@Dara Jeeling I agree with you, it is dark. But one could argue that Ron was just talking out of anger and didn't really mean it. It's also bold of Ron to assume Black would have finished Severus. I personally reckon that the exact opposite would have happened.

Mordimer

@Hawwah scolding misbehaving teenagers? I think we read different books ;)

itsanursething

@Hawwah I understand that you and others don’t view Snape’s behavior as bullying, but many people, including the characters in the book do. If the person experiencing the behavior considers it bullying, regardless of the intention, it’s bullying. It’s all up to perspective. It’s ok for people to have different opinions about it.

Hawwah

Ron clearly doesn't understand the concept of a rhetorical question. When I was re-reading this chapter, I was surprised how disrespectful Hermione was to Professor Snape and how lenient he was with her. He took the house points from her only after she spoke out of turn for the THIRD TIME. (I know he says "this is the second time" but it's actually the third. We can argue whether it's his mistake or JKR's.) Other students also spoke out of turn, but each of them only once and Professor Snape didn't punish them at all. It's also worth noting that when Neville behaves in class, he has absolutely no problem with Professor Snape. EDIT: Jake, I swear I didn't see your reply when I was typing mine! :)

Hawwah

@itsadancething No, I can't agree with that. Words have their meanings and you don't get to redefine them when it suits you. Let's say I decide to consider your disagreement bullying. Does it mean you're a bully now? Do you see the flaw in your thinking?

itsanursething

@Hawwah Yes! If I call someone a cotton-headed ninny muggins every day for the next year, and they think I’m bullying them, then I am! I could just think I’m being funny. Regardless of my intention, if they feel bullied, then it’s bullying, and it’s (in my opinion) disrespectful to disregard their feelings about the situation. I’m not trying to say your view of it is invalid or wrong, and I’m sorry if it’s coming across that way. I’m just trying to say that it’s all about perspective. The books are from Harry’s perspective and even he says Snape “was bullying Neville worse than ever.” You don’t view Snape’s behavior as bullying, but so many people do. We can all be right.

Hawwah

Not a strange opinion at all! Hemione had no way of knowing that Scabbers was actually Pettigrew. She was very inconsiderate to both Scabbers and Ron. Ron had every right to be upset. (EDIT: I originally wrote that Hermione was inconsiderable. I meant to write that she was inconsiderate. Why is English so hard?! :)

Hawwah

@itsadancething So if I started calling you a bully and telling others you're a bully, you would just accept it? You wouldn't defend yourself, you wouldn't challenge me? You're also saying that it's impossible to falsely accuse someone of being a bully. If I say you're a bully, you just are, period. I'm afraid that's a very dangerous concept which could be abused very easily. I'm sorry, but I really can't understand your way of thinking.

Hawwah

Lupin had no special friendship with Lily in the books. That was made up just for the movie.

itsanursething

@Hawwah On the flip side though, what you're saying is that all of these 13 year-olds who feel targeted and put down regularly by a grown adult man who has power over them, are all wrong. I mean, that's basically the textbook definition of bullying: an imbalance of power and repetition. I'm not saying it's impossible to falsely accuse someone of bullying. That is absolutely possible. Maybe you're right, my definition isn't entirely accurate. But words have power, and Sanpe's words make his students feel like absolute garbage. He regularly belittles them and makes them feel bad about themselves or embarrasses them in front of their classmates. A lot of people construe that as bullying. We can agree to disagree thought.

Hawwah

I don't know if Lupin is really sorry for what he did to Snape. On one hand, he seems to be very pleasant and polite to him, that's true. On the other hand, what he did in the DADA lesson behind Snape's back, that was a low blow. And before people start saying that it was actually Neville - no, it was not. Lupin was the one who came up with the whole "Snape in drag" thing, not Neville.

Hawwah

@itsadancething I'm glad you see what was wrong with your previous definition of bullying. That got me worried. Professor Snape is a strict and exacting teacher and those tend to be unpopular. That's nothing new under the sun. Students are "targeted" by Snape when they don't pay attention in class, don't follow instructions, speak out of turn, read magazines under the desk and so on. That's not bullying, that's simply a teacher doing his job. When students behave, they have absolutely no problems with Snape.

Dara Jeeling

I actually really pondered answering to you again, since I really think you do not really answer my questions and instead go on bashing (or that how it feels like with you sort of nitpicking on every sentence I wrote) - and I do not even say your reasons are not good - but PLEASE bear in mind, that I asked, because I wanted to understand your point of view and not be lectured on "how bad Snape is" (I know he is a more black then white character, thank you) Let me quote from Wizarding World (and JKR herself) "The monthly transformation of a werewolf is extremely painful if untreated and is usually preceded and succeeded by a few days of pallor and ill health. While in his or her wolfish form, the werewolf loses entirely its human sense of right or wrong. Genuine wolves are not very aggressive, and the vast number of folk tales representing them as mindless predators are now believed by wizarding authorities to refer to werewolves, not true wolves. A wolf is unlikely to attack a human except under exceptional circumstances. The werewolf, however, targets humans almost exclusively and poses very little danger to any other creature. Werewolves generally reproduce by attacking non-werewolves. The stigma surrounding werewolves has been so extreme for centuries that very few have married and had children. However, where werewolves have married human partners, there has been no sign of their lycanthropy being passed to their offspring." so... for me making sure kids know how defend themselves againt the transformed person makes sense - but again, that's just my point of view. I do not say "kill it" but be able to defend agains it and maybe learn how to prevent from bleeding out from it's scratch or bite. ( again sorry if you are seeing it otherwise) And he only tried to attack the trio - before he ran off... yeah right he never attacked anyone, but trying to attack a student (for whatever reason) is bad enough in my oppinion. Also... He runs off - rather then ask another professor (who he knows has a) his potion and is b) totally interested in finding Sirius (albeigh for the wrong reasons) is safe? And as much as I like the characters of Sirius Black and Remus Lupin I also think they are both questionable and no truely white characters at all. and as for how to avoid society when the full moon is approaching... I may be delusional - but go somewhre where there are usually noother wizards, please!? I am NOT okay with the way werewolves are treated. There should be better ways.

S1lm4r1l

> "You are making many assumptions both about Snape's character and this Defense Against the Dark Arts lesson, which are not supported by the text." How so? > "All we are told about this lesson is that they spend most of the time taking notes on werewolves from the textbooks, and that Professor Snape requests an essay on how to recognize and kill werewolves." Which is what I said. > "I personally believe that the aim of this assignment is so that the students will know how to defend themselves against a werewolf *after* they have transformed... But you have extrapolated this point to insinuate that Snape is in favor of werewolf genocide as some form of cleansing the wizard race." Sorry. Who is making claims unsupported by the text? Snape literally says "Write me an essay on how you identify and kill werewolves." He doesn't say 'How you would defend yourself against a werewolf attack?' He doesn't say 'What defences can you use to protect yourself from werewolves?' Nope. He wants them to write about the best possible ways to kill werewolves. Werewolves are loathed by wizarding society. Snape was nearly attacked by a werewolf when he was a teenager (and probably would've died if James Potter hadn't saved him.) There's tons of evidence throughout the text that Snape does not believe Lupin, as a werewolf belongs at Hogwarts, either as a student or a teacher. He waged a constant campaign to get Lupin thrown out. Believing him untrustworthy and dangerous. His prejudice is plain for all to see. > "He was almost killed by a werewolf as a teenager... it's not unreasonable to want the students to know how to defend themselves when that same werewolf is currently teaching Hogwarts classes." He didn't say 'defend yourself' he said Kill. You are making claims that are unsupported by the text. Nowhere does Snape suggest that he wants students to know how to defend themselves from werewolves. He wants them to know how to kill werewolves. > "Not only that, but Lupin stood by and watched Snape bullied relentlessly as a teenager, and the only other werewolf that Snape has personal knowledge of (Greyback) is a vicious, homicidal maniac." So what? > "So it is perhaps unsurprising that Severus does not have an entirely favorable view of werewolves, given the amount of trauma he associates with them." Aha. So you openly admit that Snape is bringing his own personal feelings about werewolves into the classroom. Allowing his prejudices to effect his teaching. It is inexcusable and simply another reason why Snape is a terrible teacher. > "I'm just trying to point out that extrapolating Snape's entire world view to such a drastic extent is rather unfair." Hardly extrapolating. His lesson is literally "These things are dangerous, here's what they look like and how to kill them." He's talking about other human beings. Men, women, children. I think he's heavily prejudiced and possibly genocidal towards them. At the very least. I'd say there's enough textual evidence to argue that case.

S1lm4r1l

Is that why nobody but Hermione answers any of Snape's questions Jake? Maybe all of them are convinced his questions are rhetorical.

Dara Jeeling

I agree with the idea of Snape winning over Sirius any day in a duell/battle

Rebecca May

@S1lm4r1l - I’m going to choose to stop engaging from here on out, as much like Dara I now feel you are much more interested in character-bashing and nitpicking than engaging in constructive discussion, and your tone is extremely aggressive. If at any point you felt that my response was intended as confrontational, I sincerely apologise. The only reason I comment on these book club topics is to discuss, not to fight with people. I have in fact stated in my own book club comment that the way Professor Snape phrased this assignment to his class made me feel uneasy (as it lacks the nuance you outlined in one of your previous comments). I am willing to accept that you and I have a different interpretation of a *single sentence* in the text. Again, much like Dara, I believe the most reasonable interpretation of Snape’s assignment is that he wishes to teach the students how to survive an encounter with a *transformed* werewolf, which are incredibly dangerous. But we can agree to disagree. I literally already said that Severus’ treatment of Lupin could be unkind and his behaviour unprofessional – at no point was I arguing the effectiveness or validity of his teaching methods. I simply wanted to explain why I believed that insinuating – and now outright accusing – Snape of wishing genocide on all werewolves was deeply unfair. I don't think that Snape would have tried to save Lupin's life later in the series if he had genocidal feelings towards all werewolves... Those two things simply don't gel to me. But I could be wrong. And please don’t act like I don’t know these are human beings deserving of love and respect. That’s just horrible.

Michelle Linardis

Thank you Hawwah! For some reason, I assumed it happened then 😅

S1lm4r1l

> "for me making sure kids know how defend themselves againt the transformed person makes sense" But that's not what Snape wants to teach them according to the text. He explicitly says he wants an essay from them on how they identify and kill werewolves. It isn't enough that they know how to defend themselves, which they're learning to do in any case. Snape wants them to know how to kill werewolves. > "yeah right he never attacked anyone, but trying to attack a student (for whatever reason) is bad enough in my oppinion." There was no malice in that, he wasn't himself, he's got a medical condition. If Lupin was 'trying' to kill the Trio. Then Snape was 'trying' to encourage his pupils to kill werewolves on sight. > "He runs off - rather then ask another professor (who he knows has a) his potion and is b) totally interested in finding Sirius (albeigh for the wrong reasons) is safe?" Lupin was reckless, forgetting to take the potion is terrible. As we discover later, Snape was perfectly willing to throw Sirius back to the Dementors, despite the possibility of his innocence. Lupin was right not to trust him with the information. > "I may be delusional - but go somewhre where there are usually noother wizards, please!?" But how do you go about that? If Wizards were truly interested in seeing Werewolf attacks drop they'd stop demonizing them, ensure the Wolfsbane potion is available for any werewolves that want it. They make the best of the situation they're put in by the rest of the wizarding world. As it turns out, that's pretty terrible. Aside from people like Greyback, their condition is not their fault. Although perhaps some of them might deal with it better to reduce the chances of infection.

S1lm4r1l

> "I’m going to choose to stop engaging from here on out, as much like Dara I now feel you are much more interested in character-bashing and nitpicking rather than engaging in a constructive discussion, and your tone is extremely confrontational." I didn't appreciate being told I'm 'making things up' when I was directly quoting the text. > "If at any point you felt that my response was intended as confrontational, I sincerely apologise. The only reason I comment on these book club topics is to discuss, not to fight with people." Likewise. I apologise. > "I have in fact stated in my own book club comment that the way Professor Snape phrased this assignment to his class made me feel uneasy (as it lacks the nuance you outlined in one of your previous comments). I am willing to accept that you and I have a different interpretation of a *single sentence* in the text. Again, much like Dara, I believe the most reasonable interpretation of Snape’s assignment is that he wishes to teach the students how to survive an encounter with a *transformed* werewolf, which are incredibly dangerous. But we can agree to disagree." I think it was Snape's intention to introduce the class to werewolves, (at least partly) to remind Lupin of the social connotations of his medical condition. > "I simply wanted to explain why I believed that insinuating – and now outright accusing – Snape of wishing genocide on all werewolves was deeply unfair." Maybe it is, but assuming the best in Snape is unfair too. And I think he's one of the few characters that receive that treatment on a fairly consistent basis. I've rephrased what I said.

Mordimer

@Hawwah "Snape was a bully who loved the goodness he sensed in Lily without being able to emulate her. That was his tragedy" -J.K. Rowling

Hawwah

@Mordimer JKR also said she never re-reads her own books, and it shows. Snape was never shown bullying anyone in the books. He was a victim of bullying. Also, what goodness in Lily? The Lily we saw in the books was cold, unempathetic, argumentative, judgmental and a very bad friend. Severus was a much better person than her.

Kat

Between Boggarts transforming into student’s worst fears and Dementors causing Harry to relive his trauma, I can’t help but think Hogwarts should have a therapist or counsellor for students. Harry has grown up in a household that is neglectful at best and lied to for almost all of his life. I bet he would have a lot to talk about and work through! PS What do you think your boggart might turn into?

itsanursething

@Hawwah So then by your logic, is Dumbledore not gay? Because that was never specifically stated in the books, but JKR stated that he was. I’m genuinely interested in your thoughts. I guess I’m just not understanding how the creator of the universe can be wrong about a character within that universe, that she created.

Hawwah

@itsadancething I think you answered your own question. He is not gay in the books. Rowling has been wrong about her own universe many times. The classic example is how many students are there in Hogwarts? JKR famously said in one interview there were about one thousand students. When fans pointed out that was not possible (not enough teachers), she changed the number to 500-600, but that still doesn't add up. We know there are just about 40 students in Harry's year. Another famous example: why didn't Harry see thestrals at the end of the 4th year, after he witnessed Cedric's murder? That was just JKR's mistake, there's no way around that. Or how many wizards and witches are there in the UK? Again, JKR gave some numbers but when fans broke them down, they didn't make much sense. (There would be more professional Quidditch players than wizards/witches, for example, which is obviously absurd.) The Fantastic Beasts series is another can of worms. It directly contradicts the HP books several times. So yes, Rowling can be wrong about her own universe.

Kunzite Blossom

Was it? Must be something I remembered more from the movie. I watched it more recently then reading the book. Maybe it was just fresh in my mind. I do know they were both prefects though so maybe that counts for something. Everything else I said still stands.

itsanursething

Ok I’m done. Engaging with you isn’t fun, it’s stressful. It feels like if someone doesn’t agree with you, you have to poke holes in all of their thoughts to prove that you’re right. If it’s not specifically written in the book, it’s wrong. This universe is supposed to be magic and fun. To me, magic isn’t always logical. Let JKR have her outlandish ideas because this is all make believe!

Hawwah

@itsadancething You wrote you were genuinely interested in my thoughts. So I shared my thoughts with you. And then you got mad at me because...? You don't have to engage with me if you don't want to, that goes without saying. I just thought you wanted to discuss with me because you said you were genuinely interested in my thoughts. Forgive me my silly mistake.

Hawwah

Yes, it was. I don't blame you for mixing up the book with the movie btw, it happens to me too and I don't even personally like the movies. Lupin was a prefect. We don't know whether Lily was a prefect or not. She was a head girl in her 7th year but you don't have to be a prefect to become a head boy/girl (James). I agree with the rest of your comment.

Thunderbird

The scene in the Three Broomsticks is one of my favorites in the entire series. I think we get so much fascinating information. I mean, can you imagine James and Sirius being worse troublemakers than Fred and George? Then Hagrid's meeting with Sirius after Lily and James died, which was really sad. But mostly I like this scene because I find the Fidelius charm very fascinating (yes, charms would be my favorite class). Also, did you pick up on Snape implying that Remus helped Sirius to get into the castle when he spoke to Dumbledore in the great hall? And how do you think Sirius actually got in? Btw, did you catch that Ravenclaw absolutely flattened Hufflepuff in Quidditch? 😉 Go Ravenclaw!! 🥳🥳

Janie

@Hawwah Rowling herself admitted that she's terrible at maths and numbers. I think it's a big difference between something as unimportant as a number of students which is irrelevant to the story and an important character's personality. So if Rowling, the author of the books and creator of the character, said he was a bully, then he was a bully.

Loveinthehat

I always love Harry’s chats with Lupin! It’s so nice to see Harry feel like an authority figure is being open and honest with him. I do find it interesting how Lupin is one of the only people, minus Harry and Dumbledore that has no issues saying Voldemorts name and doesn’t use ‘you know who.’ Especially since Lupin has lived through the war first war and experienced how bad it could get, I mean he lost basically everyone he cared about because of it so the fact he has no fear of the name Voldemort is surprising. Also can you imagine Lupin having the read essays about how to spot and kill werewolves of the students actually done the essays? That would’ve been such fun for him I’m sure! It’s sad he didn’t get the teach the class about werewolves himself though, it could’ve been a nice opportunity for him to teach it in a way that eases the prejudice against being a werewolf. Every time I hear about the marauders I do think it would be interesting to see a marauders era tv show, I wouldn’t want it bias towards any characters but if they showed every character realistically, showing the good and bad I think it would be pretty cool!

Loveinthehat

I’m curious about if portraits can feel pain or not, of course attacking the fat lady is horrible and she didn’t deserve it. I mean she was so frightened and traumatised by it, I don’t quite remember but I don’t think the fat lady herself was harmed at least (unless she was), but the original painting she was in. I think the fact the portraits can move to different paintings and can run away makes it a bit better because at least they are not stuck in one place. Good on for the fat lady though for doing her job and not letting Sirius in regardless of the consequences, students should always be the number 1 safety and it’s clear why she was chosen to do the job.

Loveinthehat

I definitely agree with you! I love Hermione but she was so dismissive about Ron’s feelings towards his pet dying, Ron was right to feeling upset and angry by it. If my friend was unbothered about her pet constantly trying to kill mine and wouldn’t do anything about it, then I would have a huge problem. I think the fact that Hermione is almost proved in the right in the end makes me sad, because it doesn’t change how Ron felt at the time. Plus not only that the way she reacted about Lavender’s pet dying as well, plus Ron’s family member with the grim just so she can prove that she’s right since she doesn’t like the subject is something I feel does get glossed over.

Loveinthehat

Yeah in the books lupin doesn’t mention Lily ever, he barely really acknowledges her. It’s clear that he was definitely way closer to James. Book wise we know Sirius and Lily has a closer friendship than Remus ever had with Lily as well. I don’t know why the movies added that in, it’s a nice idea but to people who first watch it people think that Remus and Lily had a ‘thing’ going on lol

Janie

I think it was kind of stupid to send Filch to the dungeons to look for Sirius Black. I mean how would he have defended himself? Though Sirius probably didn't have a wand so it would have been a fist fight or something like that :) But still, they all thought Sirius was extremely dangerous and they sent a Squib to look for him?

Katik

I also always wandered that! @Loveinthehat that's a cool possibility!

Sara

I find it really funny how Percy awkwardly third-wheels Dumbledore and Snape's conversation. On a related note, Percy follows Harry around in an effort to stop Sirius Black from getting to him. But what is Percy actually going to DO to this mass murderer if he shows up? Oh, who am I kidding, he's Molly's son. He's definitely going to duel Black. ("Not my brother's best friend, you b*tch!") Why is Fudge (THE Minister of Magic) just hanging out at a random pub spilling tea with McGonagall and Hagrid of all people? Does he not have more important things to do? Well, whatever his reason for being there, I think this scene gives us some insight into Fudge's character. Imagine being a first responder at a scene like that. Bodies everywhere, probably limbs missing, people smeared all over the walls, injured people, maybe even child victims. It's like a warzone. And in the middle of it all some madman just… laughing. I can understand why Fudge is hesitant to believe that Sirius is innocent later on. Now, he shouldn't be letting his biases affect his judgment since he's the Minister but this at least makes you understand him a little more. (Long story short: The Wizarding World desperately needs mental health services.)

Katik

Hi Veggie, I'm sure you as a Hufflepuff noticed that when Slytherin excused themselves from playing the first match against Gryffindor, Oliver and the rest of the team treat it as a great injustice done to them. But no one thinks of the poor Hufflepuffs, who had their first match brought forward by several weeks on a very short notice! They have so much more reason to complain! (And I'm saying that as a proud Ravenclaw)

Hawwah

@Janie Show, not tell. If a character isn't shown bullying anyone, he is not a bully, no matter what the author says years later in an interview (or was it on Twitter?). The books are canon, her interviews and Twitter feed are not.

Frances Powell

I agree. This is the book where Hermione has her turn at being a bit of an a*hole.

S1lm4r1l

That's a very good point!

S1lm4r1l

Lupin doesn't fear Voldemort because he thinks Voldemort cannot take anything more away from him. He's already lost everything.

S1lm4r1l

I've long held a suspicion that the Ghosts and Portraits spy on the students for Dumbledore. After all. They're all guests in the castle, they owe their existence at the castle to Dumbledore, if we're to believe Filch about Dumbledore being able to get rid of Peeves.

Loveinthehat

I mean technically Lupin still has his dad and stuff who is alive so he does in ways have things that can taken away, but I do understand the point

Giorgia M

I suppose you’re right lol. But since the ones in question were, “ ‘Which of you can tell me how we distinguish between the werewolf and the true wolf?’” and “Anyone?” While seeming annoyed at not getting an answer from the class and suggesting their failure to answer be reported to Dumbledore, I’m assuming this was not rhetorical. I’ve always wondered about Standard English and Maths at Hogwarts though, is everyone homeschooled? What if someone can’t read their school books properly? Mrs Weasely must have had a lot of work with so many kids to teach lol.

Raider Max

Lupin is such an awesome uncle......that's it. That's my comment #HufflepuffForTheWin

Diego Zenhäusern

Agreed it's probably just that they never bothered to wartch what Rpn was doing...why would they?😅

Diego Zenhäusern

@Loveinthehat Wow, I love that idea...I think that's gonna be my new headcanon on that!😅

Diego Zenhäusern

I mean, I don't know it that was foreshadowing...I think it was more the fact that it wasn't a real spell😅. Because: 1. the're all in "fake Latin" 2. Theri all 2 or 3 words long at most

Diego Zenhäusern

Isn't telling him that Pettigrew was the secret keeper kinda a spoiler? I mean granted, Veggie might suspect something like that based on his knowledge of the movies....but he could also just think that he tricked sirius into revealing it or that something else went wrong🤔

Diego Zenhäusern

Lol, never noticed that, that would make no sense (especially since Sirius would probably be able to do at least some magic even without his wand, so there is ko situation where it would be a fair fight🤔)

Janie

@Hawwah I think it was shown many times in the books. Neville was so scared of Snape that he was his worst fear. What would you call it then? I know you like to point out that Neville was a terrible student and he should have paid attention but do you really think that Snape's behaviour towards him is ok? Some people require more patience than others and even if some of it might have been Neville's fault, it doesn't excuse Snape's treatment of him. He's an adult and a teacher. He should know better. By the way, I'm not bashing Snape. I love him as a well written character but I don't like the way he treats his students.

Diego Zenhäusern

Already looking forward to: 1. Your absolute excitement to met Cedric already in book 3 instead of 4. 2. You being ecstatic about Hufflepuff winning the match against Gryffindor. 3. You goshing about how great and fair of a person Cedric is for wanting to repeat the match after Harry fell from his broom. 😜😅 (No worries though, as a fellow Hufflepuff I understand🙃) On another note: My comdedic highlights of these chapters are: a) Percy being absolutely rubbish at cheering up Harry when he can't go to Hogsmeade. b) Peeves being torn between kinda respecting Dumbledore and having the time of his life dropping the "Sirius Black was inside the castle" bomb.

Diego Zenhäusern

I wonder if Veggie will pick up on this on his own, since he's so protective of Hufflepuff😅

Katik

Haha that Percy scene trying to cheer up Harry has reminded me of "What have the Romans ever done for us" 😅. Veggie is a Monty Python fan, I wonder if he'll make the same connection, or if it's just me

Daniel Lee

Accidentally deleted my own comment smh I find it kinda funny how less than a year ago Fudge sent Hagrid to Azkaban without a trial but now they're just having a drink together. It's also interesting how Fudge admits Voldemort could come back with the help of Sirius Black considering his constant denial in the future. I wonder if almost everyone's boggart during the First Wizarding War was Voldemort. I understand Lupin a lot more just imagining Voldemort popping out of your wardrobe after hearing he's been sighted nearby. Just a fun fact about Flobberworms since they're so interesting: apparently they are one of the only living creatures that can be summoned with Accio, the Summoning Charm.

Sara

Charlie wasn't the head boy, only Bill was.

Jake M

Oh absolutely these weren't rhetorical questions, Slimer. I was just using the opportunity to bring up how they don't seem to learn any 'Muggle' lessons from the age of 11, even though there are some pretty important transferrable skills involved. Hawwah, great minds think alike... XD

Jake M

Thanks, getting confused between my prefects and head boys. Edited.

Jake M

I have to wonder whether schools in the 90s commonly had that sort of thing even in the muggle world? I went to school in the 00s and we never had anything beyond a first aider. I agree it's pretty negligent of the staff though, given the increased risk of danger and trauma at Hogwarts...

Kat

That’s actually such a good point Jake, it’s easy to forget the books are set in the 90’s sometimes. We definitely didn’t have the same dialogue around mental health that we do now!

Annette Elliott

I like how you get more insight into characters like Ron, Sir Cadogan and Cedric. Ron defending Hermione, Cedric trying to have a redo on the Quidditch match and Sir Cadogan being a totally bonkers nitwit. Then there's the mysterious potion that Snape gives to Lupin while Harry is in his office. I'd be suspicious too if I was Harry. I especially like in the books that we see more of what the students are actually learning when it comes to spells and potions.

Hawwah

@Rebecca May That's a good point, you should add it to your main comment.