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After months of anti-Palestinian repression, raids, arrests, and pictures of crusty antifa types with Israeli flags, we attempt to figure out the roots and solutions to the philosemitic fever gripping Germany’s media and political class.

In part two we take a closer look at Angela Merkel’s stated staatsräson, memory culture, anti-deutsche, and the rise of AfD.

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Comments

Ryan Fox

Have a wonderful day everyone

Nathan Wijnja

Dying to listen to this. Hope for a lot of bad german accents again

Pedro

You have a better one

DRS

I’ll finally know what’s up with these mofos. I feel like I only half know what’s up at this point.

A.J. Hubbard

Just in time for my lunch, thank you and much love

B

many blessings and thanks for this great work 🐄

The Children of Jack Acid

If I was in charge of German national identity, I would make it about "bio diamminideasoning?" What the HELL, Liz?!?

Sarah Camino

Jeffrey Epstein polka hits. Phenomenal work yung Chomsky

David Constine

I have a degree in Linguistics and the constant linguistic value judgments are really annoying :( what Liz said abt English language vocabulary is just not true and the “German is an angry/ugly language” trope is soooo cliché and cringe. anyone who’s done study of linguistics winces at that kind of talk. all languages are equally expressive, how they sound and how they’re structured is arbitrary. this is 101 stuff. making jokes and observations abt languages is fine and good but the value judgments are frustrating… also it’s rly not that hard to learn how to pronounce foreign words… it’s rly not a big deal - and you’ll feel better for it! otherwise love the show I’m a big fan lol

Smooth Shrek

I think you’ll have to forgive language normies for going after the low hanging fruit of jokes and tropes. I don’t know shit about languages but I am a software dev so I have to not get too annoyed when I hear normies say dumb shit that I know better about. On the flip side, win a war if you want us to learn to pronounce your dumb language!! BACK TO BACK WORLD WAR CHAMPS LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOO

Smooth Shrek

Another peak into the deprived German mind. I will steel myself for this trial

Jasper Creegan

Fuckin finally, been waiting to figure out wtf is up w the volk once and for all

Katherine Moss

I had this reaction to German. I feel like it’s just a conditioned response. One podcast I listened to had a German guy on and I couldn’t hear anything he was saying until the third listen. Had to kinda make my brain unlearn that response.

Doug Cartel

the dumbest podcast? dumber than cumtown? dont think so

tuztooz

Any language can be angry and ugly if the person speaking it imbues what they say with anger and ugliness. As someone with two degrees in German studies (yeah, I know), I also find the value judgements on the language frustrating. Particularly when so many English words derive from German! You can learn a lot about a people by understanding how their language is structured—hence why Germans are so weirdly particular and obsessed with following rules. The language is full of rules about order and the placement/prominence of nouns. German is a language of Things, perhaps this is why they are largely incapable of understanding nuance or ambiguity.

Blank

“The revolutionary subject was the nut” Sounds like alt right/incels amirite?

NYCM&AHole

Look at your own nutty militarized country, Poland, Liz.

David Constine

appreciate your shared frustration, but also I rly doubt German attitudes have much of anything to do with their language. what you’re proposing is what’s called a Whorfian tendency, which suggests structural qualities of language impact mind and perception. this is largely rejected in by linguists. German is no more a rule oriented language than any other - all languages are governed by a complex set of rules to a largely equally degree. The specific ways rules act to make meaning will differ, but they’re all always present. Several languages have a more extensive or “precise” system of cases. inflections and agreements than German but without the same cultural reputations; others less of the former but still the latter. Having studied Linguistics, it surprises me how many people don’t realize this.

Sam

I just want to say that I love the music Yung Chomsky made for these episodes.

NYCM&AHole

The alps may belong to everyone but to whom does tomorrow belong?

Norbur

Pronouncing Goethe "Gouda" just like Liz from now on

McMiller

All languages are not equally expressive.

Ashton Fernandez

Y’all should do this but Russia and how Putin rose to power and the USSR fell

David Constine

all languages have the same level of expressive potential. everything expressible in one language is expressible in another. this is just a basic claim of mainstream linguistics.

Sean

Radio War Nerd has that on lock

Blank

Wow I can’t believe 15 year old Liz in 2002 referred to the Palestinian struggle and third world liberation movements as volkish

Doug Cartel

the Germans love losing wars and they seem like they're gearing up to lose to Russia a 2nd time so don't worry about re-invading, Russia may actually have to go to berlin again lmao

Robert Sayre

haha I have the League Pass. my gf is always like "wtf is this" during the timeouts and halftime, since you would get commercials on TNT etc.

ResilientBastard

“Russia” go to Berlin again? It was a hammer and sickle raised over the Reichstag not some lame tricolor. But sounds like that’s what you’re into.

Doug Cartel

Shshshhs calm down its gonna be okay

NYCM&AHole

To be fair, a lot of kids who were orphaned by the war were stuffed into orphanages where there was all the usual type of abuse but probably more extreme because it’s Germany. So that’s why they “liberated” orphans.

Cleo

omg soooo real about 1990 world cup jersey

cogandbal

You should study more maybe then you'd figure out how gross german is!! Get over it liberal

Sunon Puhnon

Great episodes! Another short rant: Getting a detailed outsiders perspective on this confirms a lot of ominous thoughts and feelings i have towards the public discourse and political attitude in germany, the country I was born in. What you hinted at with the anti-afd protests gives me mild hopes for the future. Although political discourse seems fucked up and the major parties seem to be warming up to right wing talking points, normal everyday people in germany seem to (sometimes) get things right when opposing the AfDs 'remigration' plans. I just wish the pro-palestine protests were as popular. It's interesting you didn't mention Martin Sellner, who was one of the major figures in the remigration-scandal. An identitarian AUSTRIAN guy (+other right wing freaks) trying to plan MASS DEPORTATION in a hotel close to where the original WANNSEE KONFERENZ happened? Nothing sus about that. Latest news has it that he's banned from entering the country again. What i would like to 'tell' this guy if i could ever get close to him, it's better left unsaid. Germany has a schizo-attitude, but it's also a country that is slowly accepting that it is reliant on migration. My lived experience is that this country today seems very accepting of turkish migrants and their children and grandchildren, so much so that some of them actually start supporting the AfD, lol. Maybe current refugees will have a similar experience down the road. And while I hate our current stance on israel and the nato re-militarisation is scary as fuck, it seems like, when push comes to shove, our collective moral compass does work quite well. When Merkel 'welcomed in' the refugees in 2015/16 the reactions were really polarized, but I have to admit, she did the only morally acceptable choice, even at the cost of her reputation. Don't get me wrong, i hate the CDU/CSU and Merkel was also responsible for a lot of stagnation in politics, but you have to give credit where credit is due. I just wish Olaf Scholz would do the same for Gaza right now... There are normal people in this country who love their döner, who accept or embrace multiculturalism, do all they can to help refugees, go out to protest in REAL anti-fashist action and lead pretty normal working peoples lifes. I just wish their voices would be drowned out less by the noise the media (especially Springer) and politicians make. While the holocaust is a prominent aspect of germanys past, it's also the birthplace of thinkers like hegel, marx and etc. . I wish the german mind would pay more attention to that rather than hyperfocussing on the perverted holocaust cope you described..

Robert Sayre

gotta look up the "we need jungle I'm afraid" meme, which is 2024 material

snapplepeachtea

the hell on earth podcast that matt christman and chris wade did does make me think that germany's national identity and cyclical tendency towards violence originates from that apocalyptic war, hmm

Justin Hastings

I would like to hear more of this secret war in Greenland

CYRI

Lucy

Really can’t handle Germans combating antisemitism by converting to Judaism…girls….thats just not how that works

Rooti Tooti Giuliani

Sometimes Brace’s German accent walks the tightest of ropes between funny German accent and offensive Asian accent

David Constine

literally this is the same tone racists use about Spanish, Arabic, Vietnamese - or a relevant one - what the Nazi’s said about Yiddish. not sure what’s so liberal about pointing out that it’s a frustrating perspective on language that’s way too common.

MoldyTolge

I screamed when Carlos and The Commonwealth were mentioned

grant brown

Theory: Diageo fomented the lawsuits against Diddy (who is undoubtedly a scumbag regardless) to force him to settle his claims re Ciroc and DeLeon. I base this only on my knowledge of how the world works.

cogandbal

Uhmm it's annoying? That's liberalism right there

Michelle C

Idk man I also studied linguistics and one of the first things you learn is that these attitudes are extremely common, are a part of the sociolingustic fabric of every community. kinda weird to demand wokeness from TrueAnon

David Constine

wokeness lol? I just think it’s annoying and sounds dumb, is pointless. ubiquity isn’t an excuse, people do the same shit about AAVE and they’re just as wrong. I think most people frankly don’t even stop to think about how unfounded these biases are. I dunno, if you seriously know better doesn’t it get under your skin? Linguistics is an incredibly unfamiliar discipline to most people

Knicks Fan 1000

Brace I respect that you drink Diet Coke

Korlithzaan

Someone doesn't like "Eat your Salad" by Citi Zēni

Ryan Fox

Ok buddy boy

FarmerNed

I lived in W. Germany from 1988-1990. Germans referred to the east-west "merger" as unification. Americans, like me, were routinely corrected for this terminology.

the crazy guy

Greetings from Norway, we love TrueAnon!

Graham Sparrow

Great opening music -- oom pah oom pah oom pah 😄

Sasha Schilbrack-Cole

Thanks for this series, I play in an American band and we just got barred from playing leftist spaces on our euro tour later this year because of taking part in a pro-Palestine comp. The conversations we had with the “anti-fascists” from Germany have been brain breakingly inane. Really great to hear the full arc of how these folks reached this point.

Shiv

“A ‘volk,’ Jerry!!”

jrab

Jacobin (I know, I know) posted an interesting, long form interview on this subject recently called “The Cost of Germany’s Guilt Politics”

AfroCommie

The Fundies and the Realos 😂

Doc Adna

Brace Hitler was Austrian!!!!

jrab

Jewish Currents also had a good piece, that come out not long before Oct 7, called “Bad Memory”

cogandbal

Ok here's the thing it's Germany Germ is in the name and that's what they call themselves

David Constine

they call themselves Deutsch but point taken

Alexander Johnson

I dig how Brace uses "baby" in the same way Harold Bloom uses "darling": not condescending, not even gendered, but almost as an honorific. I hope the comparison to Harold is a blessing. It's Easter weekend & He is risen. Peace--

Hank

Austria is just gay germany

Will

Podcasting my way into becoming an expert on the German mind.

Baked B

🤓💀

Ivan Lopez

I don’t care about the UN but boy am I glad Germany doesn’t have a permanent seat on the security council.

Bumbo Zambumba Zebulon

Truly heart-warming how the average kraut will diffuse nazi guilt using a pluralistic "we aren't Menguele, Stauffenberg" we are not a monolithic block what we are is culture of individuals", "we are now pacifists" trope but will IMMEDIATELY reassemble like a giant Voltron of sausages pointing a giant finger whenever there is the slightest chance of accusatory fascist-spotting on other countries or someone skipping a queue. Meanwhile Bavaria remains a cesspool of not really closeted Nazis and Rheinmetall AG and Siemens some of the key weapons and weapon systems exporters in the world.

Dan

A Bavarian friend tried to explain to me what "anti-Deutsch" is, and I still didn't get it; this clears up a lot.

Seth Aronovich

I mean, all you really need to know about the German Green Party's support for 'israel' is that they're pro-pedophile. Everyone like that is a zionist or at least supports them.

Tryg

Die Grünen sind es WOKE!

Exotic Instinct

it’s close to the entrance to the hollow earth

Kevin

We got them, they don’t need one tbh when they’re our dog and are the physical center of the economic EU

Antipaganda

Wait, is that actually true? If so, yep, explains everything. Edit: Fuck, looked it up. Oh jeez. Oh no. Urgh.

Antipaganda

Das gold, Jerry! Das gold!

Antipaganda

Because they did the Holocaust too

Tryg

Woke Jerry Jerry Woke Jerry Jerry Woke Jerry Jerry Woke

Cole Heideman

Imagine shitposting In a patreon comment section.

Hal Warren

Antifa is huge in Germany as well. Really weird. Go to Leipzig. Antifa fuckers everywhere. Along with cranky old Deutsch bastards.

Antipaganda

The last ten minutes of this episode are absolutely chilling. It's all gonna happen again!

Daniel Btb

as someone who grew up in Germany and then got into left wing politics its always very strange to see supposed left wing people contort their ideology in the weirdest ways to justify their support for Israel. The prime example of this is a "anarchist" Linkspartei guy who claimed on twitter that "ACAB excludes israeli cops and the IDF". Which is basically all you need to know about how wierd german left politics are

Carine

Confirming that the French are also weird - my parents made me watch The Tin Drum (randomly an adaptation of a Gunter Grass novel) when I was like 7 years old. I'm still scarred.

Carine

Also isn't Dany Cohen Bendit a pedo of some sort? (Source: my French mom going on a rant)

Burger king man

Yung chomsky you polk too hard they’ll kill you

Mark Owen

Nicht wiedervereinigung?

D. Elwood

I was in Germany a couple years ago and got caught up in a student march/protest thing and when this kid who handed me a pamphlet caught on that I couldn't read it he tapped it a couple times and angrily said "they want to do nazis again" so shoutout to those kids, at least

Talking Mice

so the AFD are practicing biodynamic but not certified?

Jimothy Realname

yeah I got an alternative for Deutschland - indefinite military occupation

Michael Ouderkirk

Does anyone have the link to the article Liz mentioned about Incestous Britain?

Athanor

(TW pedophilia) Extract from "le grand bazar" his book from 1975 : "Il m'était arrivé plusieurs fois que certains gosses ouvrent ma braguette et commencent à me chatouiller: je réagissais de manière différente selon les circonstances mais leur désir me posait un problème. Je leur demandais: 'pourquoi ne jouez-vous pas ensemble, pourquoi vous m'avez choisi, moi, et pas les autres gosses?' Mais s'ils insistaient, je les caressais quand même" 'It has happened to me several times that a few children opened the flies of my trousers and started to stroke me. I reacted differently each time according to the circumstances, but their desire confronted me with problems. I asked them: "Why don't you play with each other, why have you chosen me and not other children?" But when they insisted on it, I then stroked them. For that reason I was accused of perverted behaviour.'

Christian Bendillo

Unpopular opinion but, based on looking around at the people in Germany when I was there, they actually did get away with the ethnostate thing just minus some of that lebensraum

Jacob White

I saw several confederate flags while in germany, apparently it is what nazis do since they can’t display nazi shit

Emma

Liz I love you but English famously has way more words than pretty much any European language

Richard Spiegel

Recommended: Sex after Fascism by Dagmar Herzog

Shfifty_five

The Jewish Currents piece is fantastic.

Shfifty_five

That's just not true about equal expression. There is even an indigenous language/culture without the concept of integers. A researcher tried to teach adult speakers enumeration but they could rarely get past 10.

saaffie

Liz, you are looking at Paris through rose-colored glasses. I speak as someone who lived there first 8 years in early 2000s and had visited regularly for the 15 years previously. The vibe is gone, American franchises are on every corner and the infrastructure is falling apart. It breaks my heart to visit now. Berlin has got a fresh energy, admittedly less now that all west's artists landed there inadvertently jacking up prices because of the influx of "startup" money that then followed. Sigh.

David Constine

the research on Pirahã is incredibly controversial and unsettled, and even were that the case it would be an aberration among natural languages likely having more to do with developmental psycholinguistics than that anything else, not representative of a broader trend. If it’s true, it’s quite weird that thats the only time that’s ever seemed to have happened. I dunno man this is just sort of what’s understood to be true.

BeanCurd

your hatred of the New Left (as Maoist podcasters) is a very funny symptom

cogandbal

See now you're talking about dangerous aquatic creatures literally what the hell

Thomas Clements

A minor point: German is not a Romance language. Both English and German are Germanic languages, so word formation occurs in a very similar way.

Chris Reyes

I listening rn , wondering if you’ll mention KMFDM.

elizabethonline

main takeaway liz wants to bring back jungle

Billy B Texas

Maybe Germany supports Israel in the hopes that they might out Nazi them so they can be like “look! We had some crazy times but Israel! Whoa dude! too far!”

JV

yeah Mark Ames said something to this effect on a recent War Nerd episode and it definitely feels like a big part of it. Basically like "it's not some thing about sublimated guilt or whatever, they're just sick of getting all this heat for the holocaust while everyone else ignores their own colonial genocides, so if Israel is seen doing one too it normalises it in their eyes"

Doc Adna

Yo Brace when is your Jake Gyllenhaal movie coming out man????

Chris Reyes

I don’t think so. Haven’t heard anything. like wtf capt k ?

🤷🏼‍♀️

Also as a native English speaker who learned German, German “words for everything” are just English sentences without spaces

JV

yeah and iirc by most ways of measuring it english is always in the top ~5 of *all* languages which have the most words

Ivan Lopez

Question for Yung Chomsky. Is there any way to access a longer version for the Germany series opening track like Bandcamp? That’s a banger.

whalecum2020_official

if true anon told me the holocaust never happened i’d believe them

Anon Ibid

When yall doing the intermarium episode?

JV

i wanna see brace convert to nation of islam

Jacob Makes

can you do an episode about the german state rabbi? i’ve never heard of this before and it sounds like a wacko story

ray hafez

Bräß von Bergen-Belden

BeanCurd

damn that's crazy you should reevaluate your behavior

ggmacd

It just did AND it features connor mcgregor

Doc Adna

Can't find anything about it online

Steo

What you saying the Nazi left, love it.

SF

So Antideutsch are like… German Paul Mason, right?

_T-Bone_

LOVE THIS SERIES. My wife and I have been living in Berlin for the past 9 years, and the anti-Deutsch stuff is always breaking my brain. My "sane" german punk/hardcore friends say in the past few years there has been a "takeover" by the anti-Deutsch contingent to be the "voice" of the left, while the majority of people in the scene are not supportive. But the dialogue has gotten so divisive, that a lot of people on the left are scared of even talking about Palestine for fear of being label anti-semitic. Having a "discussion" about Israel is in itself anti-semitic among certain circles. The mind gymnastics of the anti-Deutsch is so crazy that a friend's band got "banned" from a squat venue in Halle in the mid-2000s because they had anti George W. Bush lyrics during the Iraq war?!?!? As a german friend said the Anti-Deutsch are so anti Germany they have come all the way around to being the most stereotypically German in their arrogance and belief they are the only ones who can differentiate right from wrong. Also, my wife is Jewish, so while the official government position is pro-Israel, the day-to-day ignorance and dismissiveness of the actual Jewish people in Germany by Germans is crazy. Germans are NIMBYs for Jews. Love the podcast, keep up the good work.

Watermane

Grigat mein Name

Hal Warren

I had contributed to this thread agreeing with the original comment. Not Mandela Effect. Brace is removing some of my negative comments, while allowing others to stand. I am also sorry that he is unable to learn a foreign language, and takes to attacking things. Liz has allowed her snarkiness to turn into snootiness when it's merely insecurity.

Nick

Is Leipzig worth a day trip from Berlin?

Hal Warren

Yes, I very much think so. A lot more laid back. A lot more German.

Alec Gutteridge

Liz, the defining quality of the german is a lack of self awareness, not just their politicians

Watermane

guys, if you're ever planning a part 3 about the freakish and sick german mind, Deborah Feldman would be a great guest I feel. She's an american-german author and offers some very valuable analysis of kraut-brain https://youtu.be/z6vPEuF5GZg?si=kruZeHq4IhMpQPpL

Ari Curtis

This series was one of your best. Kudos and thank you!

Ruth Gemison

Born in West Germany and it's been really interesting to hear the history.