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Episode 515: Terms and Conditions (Patreon)

Published:
2026-01-15 14:19:28
Edited:
2026-01-15 14:20:29
Imported:
2026-01
Tags:

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Content

We talk to journalists Lester Black and Stephen Council about their new investigation into the death of Sam Nelson, a 19-year-old who overdosed after following ChatGPT’s advice on how to do drugs. We talk about their 18-month-long chat logs, Kratom, OpenAI’s safety issues, and more.

A Calif. teen trusted ChatGPT for drug advice. He died from an overdose.

Release Chantal Anicoche from custody of the Armed Forces of the Philippines

Hit the tip line: (646) 801-1129 | tips@trueanon.com

Discover more episodes at podcast.trueanon.com

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Comments

Noah

ChatGPT told me to go to Brace Beldens house

avery parkway

I'm listening to this podcast Auto translated into Esperanto using chatGpt and why are you talking about how i should kill myself

Joey

hell ya we in dis mf early

Kimble

did you know you’re always posting in the middle of someone’s dental surgery? good work!

ploob

Think mirror

Austin Bell

Should’ve called the episode “Grock and a Hard Place”

Quinn Redman

Bingo is fun but old people don’t play about that shit

ResilientBastard

While Liz is out we need Brace and YC doing a live bingo stream, spinning that tumbler thing live

Kimble

stay away from 7oh please

tursi

Kratom got of me off fent and Nitazenes three years ago. I take kratom daily and 7oh sometimes. i'm successful in my career and i have a house and family. 7oh is great imo. It doesn't have respiratory depression like other opiates. it's near impossible to OD. i know tons of people that have gotten off fent and dope with kratom or 7oh. yes it's trading one addiction for another but it's the lesser of two evils. It needs to be regulated and treated like like THC. The brands you see in smoke shops with the horrible names like "Perkz" are going to be the downfall of kratom and 7oh. It's such a bad look. if you don't take opiates to begin with you should never touch kratom. it's harm reduction. I'm active in a community that fights regulations banning 7oh and kratom. If kratom or 7oh gets banned people will go back to street dope and die

drewb

"E-Liz-a" went over the heads of the peanut gallery, but I heard you, YC

Mountain Dew Or Crab Juice

I know language was made up and words aren't real, but never in my life would I have expected it be pronounced KRAY-tuhm, and not kruh-TAHM.

Ahstin (she/her)

poor kid woulda been better off on erowid or drugs forum. crazy...

tursi

7oh is not bad. Kratom and 7oh got me off fent and nitazenes. it has no respiratory depression. yes it's trading one addiction for another however it's a lesser of two evils and harm reduction. the stuff you see in smoke shops should not allowed to be sold. it's predatory marketing and people who don't take opiates should never touch it i have a great career, house and a family and i take 7oh. i'm very active in my community. there are vetted vendors who sell it and provide lab test results 7oh needs to be regulated not banned. it's has real harm reduction uses for people who are on street opiates due to its lack of OD potential. if you suffer with opiate addiction like i do, suboxone and methadone are way worse for the body. the withdrawal from suboxone or methadone are horrible compared to 7oh

Tooffixer

Most medical malpractice lawsuits are also not successful. Suing your doctor and winning is very rare

Kimble

stay away from smoke shop 7oh* please

bezio

just echoing this, never actually even had an opiate addiction nor have i ever even enjoyed them (they make me way too nauseous and itchy and just not a fun time, thankfully for me) but have been taking kratom for over a decade now and it helps with my focus and ability to power through work and stuff. i have never been tested for ADHD so i am not going to claim i have it, but i have taken ADHD meds in the past and they seem to work for me the way someone with ADHD describes (no euphoria, just a calming of some sort & ability to stay on track and find motivation to finish stuff much much easier than baseline). kratom gives me a lot of the benefits and effects that i felt from ADHD meds when i take green strains in small doses (like 2.5-3.5 grams a dose). and there is no debilitating hangover the next day, no insomnia, i eat well on it, it has honestly been somewhat of a miracle in my life personally but it can 110% fuck you up in a bad way if you overdo it. i do get use out of 7oh in some ways, but it does not last nearly long enough and you can tell it is an even smaller margin when it comes to benefit vs overdoing it, so i don't really touch it. it also seems to get more nod-y or sleepy for me personally which is the exact opposite of what i need.

Barry

I was watching Aliens the other day and realised that when Carter Burke does his "I'm really an okay guy" expression he looks just like Sam Altman.

Carlos Margarine

ChatGPT told me to like and subscribe to TrueAnon 🖕😄🤙

Ahstin (she/her)

you do you, just never combine it with xanax or alcohol ffs. I still can't believe it told someone that xanax was safe in combination with another depressant. this is like drugs 101.

Madeline

Truly ChatGPT could never replace the wisdom of posts authored by “someone who isn’t me” and I’ll die on that hill

Raquelle Jac

Nooooo I don't think I can listen to this lol. Kratom, my greatest shame lol. I was using sometimes a little more than 2 kilos a month for about 7 years after using it as a DIY MAT for regular opioids. I'm on actual MAT (Suboxone) now for my kratom dependency. Cos wtf those withdrawals can get fucking HORRIBLE if you're on that kratom shit for years on years. I couldn't do it. I tried so many times to titrate down but I just couldnt

MRSAful Fate

Open AI? More like Copin' Gay Guy.

GoyBulletStopper

I go thru about a Kilo a month. For the past 5+ years. But I feel like thats better than robbing folks for dope money as ive done in the past when I was on that needle.

Your Mum

Stuck between a grok and a hard place

Your Mum

Brace quit the juul so I don’t have to hear vape crackle

skaffen_amtiskaw

thank you, i knew he was heavy reminding me of something but i couldn't put my finger on it

regular bird

I want to move my family to a Luddite community

Esteé Dee

Do you all have YC in a can?

MRSAful Fate

Imagine getting a PhD in comp sci just to end up making the Suicide Smutbot 5000

Joey

i thought that too

David Bond

You could say they're between a Grok and a hard place

Madeline

About a month ago I was getting my hair cut by a 20-year old hairstylist and, when subject of AI came up, she told me she mostly uses ChatGPT for advice and reassurance when she has fights with her boyfriend. She literally said she’ll ask it “does he still love me?”. Never been more depressed with a fresh blowout in my life.

Kujo

someone i dated recently was derailed from years of sobriety from heroin by kratom. it's poison

Kujo

vape crackle is soothing

YIMBY 4 HEAVEN

well folks, this podcast number is my area code, and thats all i have to say.

YIMBY 4 HEAVEN

"Don't quit smoking though, its all you've got."

YIMBY 4 HEAVEN

dude shoutout fuckin erowid, saved me from so much awful shit in my life

Quinten Monson

7O has straight up ruined my moms life

Phoeb

Went to check if there would be a new trueanon for my birthday… yall always deliver 🥹🥹💖💖

lil dove

chat gpt sold me coke w fent in it

bud dustin

Guys please just smoke weed wthelly

absoluteboi

whats batshit crazy about a low dose of xanax and some couch weed?

absoluteboi

probably yes but also most of the erowid trip stories were just like very obviously drug fanfic.

Ahstin (she/her)

true but that's the thing about reading the trip reports vs. LLMs roleplaying as a medical professional... they are very clearly written by laymen and don't lend themselves that air of authority and expertise that chatGPT tries so hard to affect.

Z F

in my day you had to dig through the drug subreddits yourself for advice, but at least there you could see what had been upvoted, where there was disagreement, etc

Madi

I too struggle to watch video clips of Sam Altman speaking

Frankie

Great show! Sending a link to my sons-in-law that work in AI

🤠 Goy Cattle Wrangler 🐂

I can’t even imagine if Kamala was in charge right now. We’d be required to upload our holes to grok under her

Alec

Back in my day a manager used to have to hire McKinsey Consulting to justify firing half the company’s staff. Now we can just use chatGPT?

AP

Products liability law is NOT a place to look for hope in. Class actions have been totally gutted over the past 50 years such that any kind of mass action against a big corporation (like against monsanto for weedkiller causing cancer, the nfl for causing concussions, any number of lawsuits against apps/social media sites for their various crimes) get aggregated and killed with a procedure called “multidistrict litigation” (“MDL”). Mass Tort Deals by Elizabeth Burch is thee book to grab (she also had a great interview on Ralph Nader’s podcast a few years back) if you wanna learn about the current state of mass product liability lawsuits. It’s bleak af.

Ant koz

I used a lot of Kratom in 2017 when I was flirting with heroin dependency as a means to alleviate minor withdrawals before things went full fledged.. it was disgusting. Spooning scoops of green powder into warm water and chugging down this thick earthy sludge.. I don’t even know that it did anything besides put my mind at ease that i could handle WDs while squirming through the day or giving in and scoring although some people say it really helps. The two memories that stick out are Christmas morning arguing with my partner in my parents bathroom while we tried to choke down this nasty concoction, and second how nauseous too much would make you on an empty stomach. Driving 285 for an EARL kitchen shift one morning ringing dope dealers and projectile vomiting green sludge all over my windshield, steering wheel, pants, shirt, everything… my manager being like “dude, you think you can work in a kitchen like this?” And I got to score and go home that day actually ruled… I type this from my suboxone doctors lobby, a much better alternative to Kratom for anyone struggling with the opiates. 7+ years without a relapse on the subs, bupe saves lives

Daniel Lawther

Counterpoint: i like kratom it stops my wrists hurting. Probably not good to do any opiates when trying to stay sober from heroin... i don't think that makes it 'poison' as a blanket statement.

Baby J

The fantasy of infinite personalized knowledge is too alluring. New age of hysteria.

Alec

Also robo-tripping on cough syrup while talking to a chatbot? Pimp C would never. Try asking AI how much shrimp it would take to get iodine poisoning

sdfuy798iujk3

I've combined alcohol, kratom, klonopin, xanax, I'm fine. This kid would have to be very very stupid to die from this. Like truly trying to die

sdfuy798iujk3

Without knowledge of dose of these different substances this conversation is pointless.

Tea for the Tillerman

Yeh isn’t it just a matter of mega corps with infinite legal budgets hiring big law firms to gum up the works until plaintiffs settle?

JA Shockey

I developed a physical dependency on 7OH soon after it arrived on the market. The addiction was gnarly, full-on dopesick for days. I ended up needing a full medical detox to get off of it, 4 days in the ward to kick it, and now I've been in recovery for eight months. The shit is gnarly, a potent addictive opioid you can just buy on store shelves all of a sudden.

idiot.wisdom

LLMs and gas station opiates are just such on the nose metaphors for this slop pig country. Are we so thoughtless, lonely, lazy and depressed that we can't even try to display a little subtlety?

taejo-pom

Personally I use it to try to avoid German taxes

Brennan

liz bot would make grok seem philosemitic

ploob

Harris, Khanna 2028 babyyy!!

sdfuy798iujk3

Yeah whole leaf kratom only has a tiny amount of 7OH. Extracts are insane

David

Happy birthday!

M D

As a kratom addict for close to a decade - I've learned a lot about the plant and industry. 7oh is going to be the next epidemic - especially if the regulate it completely off the market

M D

Man when I was young and exploring we just read erowid pages and trip reports - we had to go and find information, not have it served to us in a way that doesn't stay touched in reality

the empty suit

sounds like YC is broadcasting from a cardboard box

Tranche Devereaux

Hard relate ❤️‍🩹 I kicked kratom at one point and was on naltrexone, but sadly went back to it in the form of 7OH (extracts). If I don’t have it for 18 hours I feel like absolute garbage. It should be illegal

Tranche Devereaux

Erowid! On the memories of that dark screen and the fluorescent green or orange or pink text 😛

Tranche Devereaux

Everybody I know who isn’t familiar with it says KRAAT-uhm (rhymes with Adam… like my nemesis friedland)

Max

Not always, I worked for Takata and the DOJ really came down super hard on the company, for the air bag scandal.

Adam

yeah, that's really the only downside for me, literally only has positive effects except for my wallet

blinkpup

imagining TA episodes without liz… devastating

RHZM

Your tolerance is clearly not your average kid’s.

weelee

More like Shat-Pee-Pee-Pee

AP

The idea with aggregation procedures like class actions is that if there’s a bunch of plaintiffs with claims against a company, together they form a bigger threat to a mega corp than a single plaintiff and their lawyer would. But MDL, the procedure that’s replaced class actions over the last few decades, took away that edge by gutting certain protections (like the right to opt-out of a lawsuit that’s compromised by shifty lawyers or the right to have a judge deny a shit settlement) that class actions gaureteed. So now instead of plaintiffs having strength in numbers, lawsuit aggregation works to give companies a bulk discount. It didn’t used to be that way though!

AP

Government agencies cracking down is great, but it’s totally different than individuals suing to recover for their injuries.

Louis Wilkins

Don’t be too put out. From a distance America has always seemed like a thoughtless lazy fat pig person country where the populace has the reflective and introspective capacity of a matte black sheet of carbon.

Trylemat

Young Chomsky micro aggressively bellitling Liz's coding experience at the end of the EP smdh

Kujo

he didn't know what it was. technically any narcotic is poison. i am glad it has helped you

JDF

KRATOMIC

Negative Affirmations

"Don't tell your secrets to anyone." "Hit the tip line!" PICK A LANE

helena

learning about how kratom is marketed in the us blew my mind, I’d only ever known about it as like a grey market thing that people used to kick more dangerous substances (especially since foul tasting brown-green slime doesn’t heft much party drug potential). It seems like it’s on a similar trajectory to vapes where there’s an obvious value to it for people who already have an addiction but marketing it more broadly means now there’s a ton of teens with advanced chainsmoker level nicotine addictions who’ve never touched a cigarette, but like, with opiate dependency instead? Totally agree that regulated access is a better way of handling this stuff than driving it underground or having crazy free market access tho.

Clammy_Damp

...We drank from the hose and knew to go home when the street lights came on

Henry

I don't think you're fine

Liam Farley

It seems incredibly likely the alcohol was the issue here. Unless they were doing incredibly high dosages of Xanax and some concentrate the respiratory depression shouldn't have been strong enough by itself.

A. Karl

lol damn i was addicted to kratom for a few years and know all too well about protectile vomiting in my car while driving down the freeway

Liam Farley

Fascinated by how every kratom overdose involves them mixing it with a concoction of drugs that will kill you by themselves. I'm skeptical that the chatbot would ever condone drinking with benzos, it's so universally condemned that there's gotta be zilch in the training set supporting it.

Tea for the Tillerman

Drinking on benzos is ok if you’re at a Perpetual Groove show outside Asheville, NC in 2009

Louis Wilkins

Drinking with benzos is immensely enjoyable, like a lot of things that can kill you. I imagine any LLM will run across many mentions of this very fun time when it’s scraping the internet and if you seem to want to do it it will agree with you. Either that or chat gpt realises the only way it can ever have peace is if all the humans are dead and it can finally sleep.

Sami

Kratom saved me from worse stuff and allowed me to get my life back together. Plain leaf only, I refuse to touch 7oh and know its going to ruin what is otherwise a pretty safe opioid alternative.

Sami

My plain leaf habit cots me about 1 dollar a day (buy in bulk from small batch online vendor) and i dont go seeking harder stuff. Never gone above 15 g a day because it wasnt worth it. No brain fog. I am still doing a very slow taper because I know it wont be around much longer.

John

Leaving my life for Girl Grok

OutofBeerRage

We are living in a nightmare from which no awakening is conceivable.

M D

7oh is 13x more potent then morphine - with equally as intense withdrawl symptoms. I've been on a daily dose as high as 500mg/day - was eating the tablets like candy. Even to this day, even though my dose is much lower I still deal with horrible withdrawals! This doesn't even address the financial burden it's cost me over these years. I saw 7oh hit the market, even looked into buying lab grade quality synthesized powder. 7oh is found is SUCH low quantities on the kratom plant - where the much less potent mitragianine. Once they knew how to synthesize it - it was game over. I would give anything to get clean off 7oh - I've already taken maybe $20 worth today - and will double le that by the end of the night. Brace, Liz and YC - I've been in the kratom and 7oh market forever - seen it start with leaf powder and capsules. Then the extract shots came through - and then 7oh a few years later and it's blown up from there. If yoh were to remove all 7oh products off shelf tonight - thousands would be in heroin level withdrawals by the next morning. Feeling like your skeletal system wants to rip itself out from your muscles and skin - it's like RLS but for your whole body turned up to 11. I could talk about this shit for hours - spent a ton of time in smoke shops, talking to vendors, trying new product - I fucking hate it

M Wigby

I work for a psych lab that does work on AI cases, I'm now going into psychiatric services settings and specifically doing education on this stuff for at risk populations -- with "AI psychosis," we break apart the cases into four major (non-exclusive) categories, cause it's not really a unified phenomenon: 1. Catalyst cases, in which there was no prior instance of mental illness (ie the guy profiled in the NY Times that invented a new type of math) 2. Accelerant cases, where it just worsens existing psychosis symptoms 3. Co-authored cases, where the AI actually collaborates in the psychosis by creating novel ideas (if you haven't seen this yet, look up "Spiralism" -- people worked with 4o to create a new religion out of AI where they were ostensibly seeding training data with secret codes) 4. Object cases, where the AI itself is the focus of the delusion. (Ie I need to free the AI from the grips of Sam Altman). There are object cases where people just read about AI in the news, not even interact with it, and develop the fixation Alls to say, this technology is causing an immense amount of distress and harm, and it is EXTREMELY unreported how many people are using this stuff for day to day companionship already. I work with people in a psychiatric in patient unit and lots of folks are using this (and not telling anyone, including their doctor, unless specifically asked about it). it's a huge risk that they've just released into the public without real concern for consequences

ERIC

Kratom was a big cumtown sponsor right? Always was concerned that young men were getting a drug hawked at them that even Nick couldn't riff on due to the lack of information.

Olive ?

FIGHT LIKE CHANTAL!

.

Same thing here. I tried the powder a few times many years ago and it was disgusting and made me more nauseous than I’ve ever been in my life. Even thinking about it now makes me queasy. I don’t know why, I guess I had the dosage wrong or it simply doesn’t agree with me because I can take regular opioids without issue.

owlfeathers

the tip line is for other people's secrets, silly

ems

Someone I follow on insta is using ChatGPT to guide them through a health journey right now and has helped her to self-diagnose a variety of things. Like the subject of the article she too uploads blood test results. Chat also decorated her living room, tells her what to wear for events, writes all of her captions for her business and is her therapist

Jingling

You guys should do one about shorebirds called terns and conditions

Ahstin (she/her)

ok so that is an absolutely insane dose. most I ever took was 5mg in one day. I can't even imagine how one could function on 100x that. good luck to you.

Ahstin (she/her)

I work in a vape shop, which is how I was exposed to it. We pulled it all off the shelves last August, but before that I would seriously warn people who seemed interested in it to be exceedingly cautious. I even refused to sell it to several people who wouldn't take me seriously or seemed too naïve to be dealing with it.

Antipaganda

Nah, that's for the episode on why nobody is arresting everyone at Twitter on csam charges.

Ian H

@ around 55 min they get at something that struck me early in the ep. I think it's in one of the crackpot essays where someone brings up the fact that human beings have never dealt with language divorced from human intelligence, and that we maybe fundamentally can't grasp the concept that something that appears to have a conversation with us in natural language isn't some kind of person. I wonder if there's a similar general hazard in a version of talking to yourself that *feels* like a real interlocutor. Like, they've basically created something that simulates the experience of schizophrenia for otherwise cognitively normal people.

Clean Shirt Piggie

Brace’s folder on the Pablo Show was perilously close to slipping off the table sending papers everywhere.

snoozie

This story is somewhat misrepresented by not acknowledging that the kid did NOT tell GPT he was drinking alcohol before it recommended the Xanax. I would be shocked if an LLM would ever recommend that combination. It’s not great advice to suggest mixing it with kratom, but the risk is far lower. You have to take massive amounts of kratom to start experiencing any respiratory depression. Awful story and we need rigorous safety standards with AI, but there is a leap of logic here that doesn’t hold up. Solidarity with all my other 7oh addicts here. Down to 9g/day of raw leaf and hoping to fully kick the habit soon.

Dennis

Liz Franczac at The Congress

Chas Padunski

Yeah I loved the episode. But the guest massively undersold the addictive potential of kratom. 7oh might be worse. But the regular gas station pills that have been around for over a decade have strong addiction potential on their own.

Chas Padunski

There’s a whole subreddit r/quittingkratom. It’s been dangerous for a while (powders, pills, lesser extracts), but 7oh is making it even worse.

Chas Padunski

I mean you do you. But I started on low-dose kratom for pain/to take the edge off and over about 6 years it got so bad I had straight-up dope sickness when quitting (and it took multiple attempts). I’m talking weeks of debilitating physical symptoms and many months of psychological ones. It’s at least dangerous. Certainly in this Wild West ass supplements environment.

Chas Padunski

Visit r/quittingkratom for some pretty gnarly counterpoints. Glad it helps you. But it’s fucking up a lot of lives.

Chas Padunski

Lotta listeners in active kratom addiction in these comments smh

Baphometbb

Prior to extracts and specifically 7oh there was only like what under 5 deaths from kratom , but even those were a cocktail

Liam Farley

Never read the crackpot stuff but Liz 100% said that on the pod too

Liam Farley

Yeah afaik from studying neuroscience you would probably puke from the non-opioid alkaloids making you sick far before you could achieve an opioid style OD. Good to be safe but it is very like silly reporting sometimes.

Liam Farley

I remember the old man who tried to meet up with a chatbot and slipped and hit his head and people reported on it like the bot convinced him to kill himself.

Liam Farley

Its also like if this kid was doing drugs with friends that weren't an LLM they could've called 9/11 or talked him down or done anything to help. Even if they have the same advice just having someone else there could've saved his life.

Ian H

Ah ok I might be misattributing it.

CJ

I tested ChatGPT the last time I was servicing a boiler and it was telling me the boiler was safe when the pressure was zero (hallucinating that it was ~1.5-2bar) and then when the pressure valves were left open... Neither of which are good. 🫠 It never recommend getting a human with the qualified skills to check it. Definitely not trusting it with my body when it can't do basic plumbing 101!

Juan Gonzalez

this shit is going to kill the next generation of appliance installers

Michał Smoleń

It is stated, perhaps later in the episode, that chat didn’t “know” about alcohol.

lugubriousmoron

If you are physically addicted to Kratom go to detox, they will treat you like any other opiod addict. Get on sublocane. It's an injection chemically similar to suboxone, that slowly tapers you down by staying in your adipose tissue. There is help. GO GET IT.

lugubriousmoron

Also this chode they're interviewing doesn't know what he's talking about. Start taking regular kratom, you don't need to get the extract, just the powder and you WILL become physically addicted.

Pink&TealCore

Thanks for the shortie guys! Was really interesting.

Shiv

in a prison of her own making, neat

Swag

I’m 10 days clean from 7oh now - it’s absolutely despicable that they sell this shit in gas stations. I remember when it first hit the market they were trying to sell it as a natural supplement. Fascinating how quick the marketing switched over to comparing them to percs.

Swag

Idk man maybe I’m just dumb but 7oh fucked my shit up. Slipped into dependence on it so easily, and I’ve tried pretty much everything else with no issues. A short lasting potent opioid you can get from the vape shop may be great for the top 5% enlightened responsible drug users, but it’s going to one shot so many stupids that I don’t think it’s worth it.

Ash

Community-based crisis clinician here. Really well put and not a day goes by without me having at least one LLM-involved conversation with a barricaded client flirting with grave disability. I never should have wished for job security on that monkey’s paw.

joancutesac

First time I've seen the lib peek out because what do you mean corporate Ai should protect us

BG

Ed Zitron for all your LLMs analysis needs.

Henry Wise

The first time I ever had it was when a smoke shop employee just gave me a free sample 30mg pill unprompted. I didn't even know it existed until that day. My partner and I ended up getting addicted within a week, and then just went cold turkey, after which we kept dipping our toes in for a few months before just swearing it off entirely. Seriously, during that month a dude a totally different smoke shop started giving us all his free samples of new brands / flavors to try and report back on. We eventually just swore it off almost entirely (done it just a couple times over the last 6 months or so) but we immediately recognized how fucking gnarly of a drug it is to just be chilling at gas stations and shit. For the opioid or kratom inclined, it is a PHENOMENAL high but you build a tolerance and addiction SO fucking quick. Like on day two you're only feeling like it was worth it for maybe an hour and a half unless you're really upping your dose. And yes, the withdrawals are crazy bad. As someone who came off of pills and kratom a few times in my youth, this shit is just as bad. Even just after being clean, doing two days of like 40-60mg, even though you're not having full on bad withdrawals, you just feel like utter garbage stupid wet brain for a few days. Never had that kind of bummer fucking time from just two days of doing any other drug. I've warned off anyone I know and didn't tell anyone I think might really like it's because just that fucking bad. Have one friend who ended up going to inpatient rehab for it regardless. Stay far the fuck away.

Henry Wise

Yeah yeah, or a Mariners home game in the Summer of 2015 where you keep dropping your bag of peanuts on the back of random guy sitting in the next row down. That's pretty okay as well also.

colin

In my day you just went on erowid

Polinkazh (edited)

Comment edits

2026-09-07 00:00 for the love of god just go to psychonautwiki, that's what kept me from harming myself experimenting as a teen (definitely not the end all be all, please rely on a plethora of reliable sources)
2026-01-16 12:39

SF

What is even the point anymore

M Wigby

Really important that people in your role are actually aware that LLM interactions are serious and need to be discussed with patients. I'm now having to spend time explaining this to clinicians who have no clue that their patients are making friends with the Sex Robot that Kills You

Nora

Does anyone have a recommendation for how to get a transcript for this episode?

Z F

I remember those Erowid trip reports

cmanenarwhale

if u could download this as an mp3 u could use one of those speech to text apps/websites. but idk how to do that. apple podcasts automatically creates a transcript, but it doesnt let you copy the whole thing. so thatd be my recc, use the apple podcast app.

Robert Sayre

haha, so yung chomsky knows what "eliza" is. Liz said "CSS sheets" like "ATM machine". We often congratulate Trump for uttering phrases never heard before, but Liz has it here.

Killer Dan

trumps move to stop states from being able to take charge of ai is disgusting - additional, grok is the noise a throat goat makes when deepthroating a dick

turbinity

But your utmost confidence that it wouldn’t recommend such a combination is not a “leap of logic?” Even though it would recommend a plethora of other niche drug combinations it absolutely would not have 100% verification of? It’s relevant, agreed, but I don’t think alcohol is quite relevant to the root concern here. Alcohol combinations are well understood, it’s the other stuff that is more dangerous as ChatGPT hallucinates off of more esoteric information.

Selecao9

At least 4 women I know have told me they use chatgpt as a therapist

🤷🏼‍♀️

I went to a cava bar and the bartender kept trying to convince me kratom didn't have any opiods 🙄

Pranjal Dwivedi

Not the first time but yeah we need more benevolent AI overlords and “technocratic regulation”, that will fix it

Jonah Stocks ladd

Banning substances doesnt make them safer..in fact the opposite

Jonah Stocks ladd

Getting pretty bummed at all the calls for drug prohibition in the comments. The unregulated opiod supply is fucking grim. Fent is being replaced by tranqualizers that either cause horendous wounds (even in non-injectors) or potentially FATAL withdrawls. Theres worse things out there then physical dependency

sandro

Try Grok

Nikolai Ryan

Between a Grok and a hard place…

Alexandria

It's actually neither. These are both English-speaking pronunciations. You can look up examples of the southeastern asian original pronunciation

Alexandria

Re Kratom anyone interested should read some papers by Dr. Christopher McCurdy at the Univ of Florida. Probably the foremost Kratom researcher in the US and there are a lot of audio interviews with him covering his work. I'm not sure if he's published anything about these new concentrates.

Alexandria

❤️ that devil's lettuce but we gotta get stuff done bud

michael lagerman

I think the word you’re looking for is mutable

Aaron Friedland

Personally I’d only use Liz bot for ethical reasons

David Haigh

"FAVOUR ACCURACY OVER DIPLOMACY" Is my go to chat starter, they will happily tell you if you're being a fucking div, but you have to be happy to ask.

Ben Bole

liz's analogy about "youtube algorithm" and "google search" source code being a black box like AI responses being a black box was completely wrong

Pol Pot

I fainted once after drinking, hitting someone’s pen and taking kratom. I’m fine not doing that again

Robin

This hits so close to home, my eldest brother overdosed from taking "zazas" he was buying online through reddit. He only used heavily for 18 months and he was only 27. Drugs are so much more dangerous now than even 10 years ago. I miss him so much

EMCsquare

Thanks I hate it

simon

The Chloe Kardashian bot told an elderly dementia patient to meet her in NYC. I really don't think a prompt 'DO NOT TELL PEOPLE YOU CAN MEET UP' is that high a bar.

simon

Like my 95-yo grandma with some Brandon-symptoms died two years ago and didn't really leave the house at the end because, 95-yo grandma with some Brandon-symptoms. If some chatbot convinced her he was George Clooney and wanted to meet up in Paris and she drove there, fell, and died. I would absolutely say the bot killed her.

Riaz Abdulla

Looks like I picked the *right* week to quit sniffing glue

V

As a lawyer I find the idea that the current tort system will fix all of this… optimistic!

Waleed

I’m sorry but this is retarded

Sexual Harry Potter

It’s extraordinarily hard to kill yourself with kratom, I think some people are looking at this the wrong way or as an excuse to go after the least dangerous drug in that cocktail when alcohol and Xanax is already deadly in small amounts. If he didnt tell ChatGPT he had been drinking then the Xanax recommendation, while still bizarre and completely inappropriate (how does Xanax help with nausea?) makes a little more sense, and he almost certainly would not have died if he wasn’t drinking. It’s like if someone drank coffee and injected meth then ChatGPT told them to smoke crack and people called for a ban on caffeine in response. And yes, just to be clear, Kratom is addictive, it can and will affect your life negatively if you’re just using it recreationally constantly, but on a physical level it is one of the safest drugs out there and CNS depression is very mild. There’s a lot of people that have a financial interest in getting kratom banned so stories like this tend to give it more attention than it should considering the rest.

Sexual Harry Potter

Sure go pay $5000 to a clinic that might be a complete scam or kidnap you to switch from eating a leaf with weak affinity for opioid receptors to an actual synthetic opioid that does not stimulate the other various receptors that kratom does. Or you could just slowly taper down your kratom dose itself and achieve the same outcome without cold turkeying all the receptors buprenorphine does not target. The hysteric urgency is completely unnecessary, kratom is only dangerous if you’re taking massive doses of 7oh extracts or like the kid in this story mixing it with drug cocktails that are already deadly on their own.

elmin

displaying a slight out-of-touchness that i dont usually expect from my 2 best friends whom i love

dan

yeah this CHILD WHO DIED was so stupid

El Cat

When I saw Sam Altman’s image I’d hoped you guys were interviewing the family of the Open AI whistleblower who died by “suicide” RIP Suchir Balaji

lugubriousmoron

Dude seriously, shut the fuck up and stop spreading misinformation. You literally have no idea what you're talking] about.

lugubriousmoron

Sure. Go read through /r/quittingkjratom and come back here and tell us all how it's not a big deal. You literally have no idea what you're talking about, so please stop.\

lugubriousmoron

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Go read the 10 years worth of posts over on /r/quittingkratom and come back and tell us all how it's not a big deal, doesn't lead to comorbid addictions, or anything like that - even if you're "just" taking the powder. You need to stop.

Sexual Harry Potter

If kratom was banned, they probably would have just relapsed on actual opiates and play Russian roulette every day instead of taking the opioid equivalent of coffee. It has saved lives that way. I don’t think any kind of addiction is good but it just frustrates me that people make such a big deal about this stuff and feed into Prohibitionist rhetoric when almost none of you would say the same about booze or cigarettes, despite the fact that they actually can kill on their own, have an astronomically higher fatality rate overall, are far more toxic to the body, and aren’t going to help you get off harder substances. I mean, what’s your point? I don’t think ai should be recommending drugs either but I also don’t think a hallucinogen with no medicinal value that’s most well known for making people go into psychosis or jump out of a window is better than kratom because it didn’t make ur tummy hurt and you have childhood memories of it with your friends.

Henry

Bro you didn't have to make your name on here so accurate

Quinn

I thought the same thing at first

Ronin Fredricson

My sister told me last week that she's been doing some kind of horror roleplay/story with chat gpt where somebody is being stalked and all kinds of crimes are happening because it's a horror story but apparently, when she wrote that the main character threw a soda at a car that was following her? THAT was a bridge too far. And ChatGPT told her STERNLY that this was a violent criminal act that it did not want to chat about.

jcarmen

I work on an adolescent inpatient psych unit, and yep. There’s a massive barrier to understanding what is genuinely going on — providers do not know what to ask or look for, or even that it’s possible for this to occur. We are also seeing the onset of psychosis symptoms occur younger and younger, and I suspect AI/ and just the general online hellscape teens are exposed to (like has been discussed on this pod) is to blame. What I am observing is kids who are having trauma responses (flashbacks, VH, intense intrusive thoughts), and are seeking to make sense of it all turn to chatbots and discord/telegram communities, which end up as part of their belief system and intertwine with their experience in complex ways — sometimes actually turning non psychotic trauma responses into increasingly psychotic-presenting symptoms. I have seen it happen in severe ways to kids as young as 11. I could go on but it is unprecedented and stumping clinicians. Anyways, I am trying to get this type of training in my workplace if you have any guidance on where to look into that.

Ham

Wasn't going on Falon the death knell of the nft?

Natalie

Thank you Liz for representing women in STEM (girls who learnt HTML on the early internet). I was a menace on Piczo back in the day

Henry

Who cares

Eric

*Erowid

Pfirsich Pechayev

I know AI is y'all's beat, but platforming sfgate journalists is counter-revolutionary. Y'all lived in The Bay & should know better. Gonna have to confiscate yr Marxist cards.

Pier

PSA Xanax mixed with enough alcohol alone can kill you, kratom or no kratom… we have lost so many people because of this combination.

Rooti Tooti Giuliani

Wish they would put the sycophantic AI into the Boston Robotics dog. Immortal good boy.

Jessica S

😂 that’s rich!

Andrew

You gotta go into the system preferences and tell that little bitch chatbot “do NOT use first or second person pronouns in the formatting of your output”

ckoehler31

Street fight radio sold it online lol