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Episode 156: JFK 101 (Pt. 4 of ???) (Patreon)

Published:
2021-05-10 00:49:16
Edited:
2024-10-11 00:17:07
Imported:
2026-06
Tags:

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Content

Joined once again by Ben (@housetrotter) and Aaron (aaron_good_) we take a trip to Dealey Plaza, November ‘63.

Files

Comments

Paul Brewer

Or perhaps Trump was worried about his future health if he said too much, too precisely

MLVF

Definitely weakest episode of the JFK series so far imo. Tons of baseless conjecture and fanfic assumptions. Interestingly that Death Around the Corner’s series also fell apart at this time in the JFK conspiracy narrative (to the point he pulled the episode). Just two issues here out of several: Don’t understand the constant mention of the “magic bullet theory.” It seems once the actual jumper seat lay out of the car is taken into account the “magic bullet” just becomes a straight bullet trajectory. No magic needed whatsoever. The fact this basic common sense argument hasn’t been mentioned - at least to dispute it - calls into question all the bias here. And the “audio recording” of at least four shots has been strongly disputed by various parties - not just by the “state.” There’s actually no clear evidence it was even recorded in the plaza or at the time of the shooting. There simply isn’t any firm evidence that there were other shooters. Only conjecture. Was Oswald an intelligence asset? There’s pretty substantial evidence of that, but all actual physical evidence points to him as the solo shooter.

Keanu

back and to the left

Shfifty_five

Late on this, but what is the interlude track? YC original?

M Mmd

You didn't listen to anything did you lol. All the evidence that Oswald wasn't the only shooter is clearly laid out on the god damn zapruder film. If you can't tell what direction a body move from a shot to the back (body lurches forward) and a shot to the front right side of the head (head moves back and to the left) I literally have no idea how even explain grade school level logic to you. If you think a body can move in the reverse direction of a shot upon impact you're one special boy my friend.

MLVF

Look, obviously we disagree. I’ve watched the Zapruder many times. For me, the multiple motion stabilized versions found on YouTube pretty much look like a shot from behind and subsequent head recoil. The direction of the “matter” is more or less in line with official accounts in my view. If you disagree, cool. But that’s where I’m at after several JFK rabbit hole periods. I do think Oswald was an intelligence asset, but I also think a lot of his odd behavior could be explained by him being an unhinged guy on a loose leash…similar to what the FBI likes to do these days with guys who end up doing crimes.

investigate threeeleven

This was for sure the best episode. They got into the actual mechanics of how the hit happened. Death Is Just Around The Corner covered a totally different angle that imo is pretty dumb. JFK was for sure smoked by the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment. If you know anything about the Olof Palme assassination, it's extremely similar. And for a hilarious comparison regarding the Olof Palme assassination, check the US Wiki vs the Swedish Wiki (just translate it to English). It's wild how the US version downplays the obvious police involvement in the Olof Palme assassination. The actual evidence is completely scrubbed from the US Wiki. They don't talk about it in this episode, but Jack Crichton was heavily involved in creating the "Phase 1 story." He sent that White Russian prick to mistranslate everything Marina Oswald said. Then they browbeat her into lying about everything over the next few days. She eventually recanted on everything and basically claimed that she only said that obvious BS to protect her children.

Max Fennig

He got shot in the face wtf are you talking about

wavylady

Here in Jan 2025 and Liz brought up Celebrity Death Match on this weeks episode too lol. Since the VR youtube vid is such a hit I’m proposing TA VR CDM!!!

Ernest Ambrus

I misread that as, "JFK Pillow".

cinchal

That's the brother of Mike Pillow CEO of Mike Pillow Inc

Justin Sexton

just in time for us all to get a good night’s sleep after : )

rutjake

Yung Chomsky going off with this first interstitial.

Jessica S

This is my favorite Mother’s Day gift today.

Michael S. Judge

100% right that the shooter's identity is ultimately of secondary importance, but long as you're mentioning it: while I think it's possible that Frank Sturgis might've been one of the Three Tramps, it's always made sense to me that if you were going to do something as risky as doming the President from a couple dozen feet away, you'd use someone several degrees distant from you, and there's some evidence out there to point to OAS/French crime figures like Jean Souètre or Lucien Sarti

Kasz

This is going to go amazing with coffee and weed in the morning. 🎱🌄🤰

Bryan B

So glad you guys are doing this. Gonna have this in my periodic repeat podcast series rotation along with your 9/11 eps and MSJ’s JFK and Fourth Reich series

Creeping Jeff

I’m putting all my chips in for Woody Harrelson’s Dad as the second shooter.

Svid

When I was living in Washington and doing stand up Polly Shore did a show and this female comic hooked up with him and she would get insanely angry if you ever brought it up. She was one of those very openly sexual gals that bragged about being bi and having three ways and tons of sex. She never bragged about that one though.

Jimothy Realname

I found out about your podcast via Trueanon and it's tight as fuck. Keep up the good work!

Bryson Martinez

Wtf fuck was wrong with the 90s that we thought that ass hole was funny. Fucking polly fucking shore man??? Uhh duhhhhhh

The Lomax Chronicles

I've been waiting and wondering where to put in my two cents...Back in 1990 I was a sort of friend / protege of a Nashville luthier known to all simply as Moses. He had a varied client list, ranging from John Prine to Charlie Daniels, with people like Hoyt Axton and Doug Dillard in between. Anyway, I was about 20 then, and loved to hear Moses tell stories from his past: he was from Tampa, and he'd been a member of the Outlaws, he was an ex-con, and so on...Moses would sip his cheap whiskey and coke and literally chew on the filter of Vantage cigarettes and tell stories...One mid November I asked him his thoughts on the Kennedy assassination, and I really didn't know if he was going to give me some Boomer Lament on how it was the Death of All Good Things or whatever, but that was sort of where I thought he might land. At least in that direction. Nope. "Aw, he needed killing'," he said. "We all knew it was happening for weeks before it did." Turns out Moses, through his mobbed up Union organizer dad, was in with the children and other relatives of Santo Trafficante. To hear Moses tell it, nobody in blue-collar, union Catholic Tampa was the least bit surprised when the Lace Curtain Irishman was killed. Moses went on to tell me it was Trafficante and Marcello in New Orleans, who had a festering personal grudge against Bobby, for dumping him on a Honduran tarmac in his pajamas or whatever, who'd done it together. So I heard all this in November 1990, and before the month was out, Moses had OD'd on whiskey and cocaine. (Seriously this was not suspicious; he lived like a wolverine.) But not long after that, mob lawyer Frank Ragano went on 60 Minutes and made a deathbed confession of sorts that he'd been the envoy between Trafficante and Marcello as they plotted the assassination. So then Moses was corroborated there and now I see it's sort of a variant on a mainstream theory, at least if The Irishman has any currency. As I see it, everybody did it, though; CIA and mob and assorted Dallas-area deep staters.

The Lomax Chronicles

I've also been meaning to jump in on the Cuba - New Orleans connection, or less specifically, Cuba-Louisiana. LSU was (maybe still is) the foremost school in sugar agricultural science, so wealthy Cubans were sending their kids to Baton Rouge long before the fall of Cuba, Lots of connections made....my grandmother is from Beaumont, Texas; it's a part of Texas that is culturally Louisiana, and she attended LSU circa 1939. She was enamored with the Cuban boys there; she'd get such a little lilt in her voice talking about them, my grandfather would still bridle out of jealousy 60 years later. Most of those dudes would have ended up in Miami; I am not sure, exactly, why the Cuban community coalesced there and not New Orleans, but there you have it.

Gurjot

Someone on Twitter said that Trump accusing Ted Cruz's father of being involved in JFK assassination was probably meant for Jeb Bush. But he totally forgot and went ahead and accused Cruz.

Carine

I feel like I know far too much about Pauly Shore's sex life

Svid

They had sex in his touring van which like wasn't a big touring van but just like a normal sized van that he had an air mattress in with a bunch of pillows. This was like 4ish years ago

Kasz

That's fucking hilarious and on-the-nose.

Patrick Link

What about the Gates divorce????

Alaric

The mention of Phil Ochs being there really got my attention; according to an interview of his friend Jim Glover in this 2013 article (http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2013/05/phil-ochs-at-dealey-plaza.html?m=1), Ochs told him that he was there as a "national security observer" with a young member of the Gambino family and that "he was working for ‘National Security Domestic Division’ of ‘something like the CIA’ and that FBI Hoover was the bad guy." From the article, it sounds like Ochs told Glover all this soon after, well before his psychiatric issues really manifested towards the end of the decade; if it was after 68, I would've just dismissed all this completely. The article can be a little rambling but the interview seems legit. I don't know if I completely believe it but it does raise a lot of questions for me as a big fan of Ochs' work.

danny

i literally came here to say what is the implication of the phil ochs thing i cant have that dropped on me without satisfaction

Alaric

Yeah Glover claims Ochs told him before the assassination there was a plot to kill Kennedy and that he was gonna talk to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee to get more info. Also says that Ochs suspected a paramilitary squad was involved, but that just sounds like speculation on Ochs' side, not that he had inside info

Hazzy

wait, who did it?

Ryan

Man this is the big one. Intense and great stuff

Vincent Utah

I watched the video of the assassination on YouTube before listening to this and judging by that perspective alone, I immediately pictured Oswald directly in front of the motorcade. The blast exits directly behind Kennedy. There’s no way in fucking hell that shot was taken at that angle.

Dan Z

The band Texas is the Reason have quite an obsession with JFK. Aside from the band name which references the Misfits' "Bullet", they have songs called "Back and to the Left" and "The Magic Bullet Theory"

brian rhoden

At 1:14:38, Brace’s commentary seems to be cut out? He’s jokingly, offering elaboration on the seeming inauthenticity of the Oswald photo, which was featured in the cover of Time Life magazine. Was this on purpose, or an error in editing?

Jimothy Realname

Perhaps it was meta-commentary on the missing zapruder film frames

Doug Welch

What happened to Phil Ochs at the Chelsea?

Doug Welch

Honestly, I think Nixon wasn’t in on the plot, but the plotters made sure he was there. It was a set up, but not the last that would ensnare Tricky Dick

Doug Welch

...Like Bay of Pigs organizers getting arrested for petty burglary!

Doug Welch

Wtf kind of name is WerBell, anyway?

Colin Clark

Dude I don't think James Earl Ray was even in Memphis when MLK was shot just saying

Chris Ryan

Got just my balls dangling out of my shorts right now, but not the D, I call it a limited hangout

Everything Still Applies

When they first released the Zapruder Film they released a cropped version.. Based on that version there was a Disinfo theory championed by Bill Cooper that it was actually the driver that had shot Kennedy, but he was just out of frame.....

00000000000000000000

It's funny watching the JFK marathon extend on... indefinitely? There really is something about the whole JFK assassination that sucks you in. You wake up and it's episode #523 about it, the Patreon comments are all from baby boomers being endlessly petty and mean to each other for no good reason, and then somebody mentions the dead secret service agent. "Wait. There was a dead secret service agent???" "Well, who knows, probably not but maybe..." and it's into another whirlpool.

Brendan Garcia

There’s a moment in Oswald’s press conference, after he’s been arrested and booked, his face cut and bruised, when he’s asked if he knows what he’s being charged with, and he says no, as far as he knows no charges have been filed. One of the reporters tells him he’s being charged with the murder of the president, and in that instant you can see in his face the incredible weight of grief of resignation, as all the puzzle pieces suddenly click in his mind, and he realizes what the last 5 years of his life working for the government, following orders, have been building up to. It’s really kind of haunting.

Karen

Drink any time they say Peter Dale Scott

Doug Cartel

The "back and to the left" thing was always dubious to me because you can't really predict how a body will react to a bullet, and that could have been, say, decorticate posturing, for example. That's the only real caveat I have though.

Mark Addison

plus the head is on a hinge so it seems plausible that a shot from the back could cause the head to twist left and back

D.K. Wilson

As far as “suppressed weapons” being used on the knoll, I tend to doubt that. There was a former Army soldier standing with his wife and children so close to the line of fire that he: 1) nearly directly heard the shot; 2) it was close enough for him to hear the bullet whizzing, and; 3) that he immediately pulled his wife and children to the ground. The only weapon that was likely used that was found - without an argument as to its make, that is - was the rifle found... on the roof of the TSBD building.

Mark Owen

Weren't you at the Coke convention, 1965? You're the misplaced grey executive I see heavily advertised You're the great, grey man whose daughter licks policemen's buttons clean You're the man who squats behind the man who works the soft machine

Conner

Fuck eddy money. Pops fought eddy money outside a bar on Piedmont Ave in the early 80s.

Kate Baldwin

It's been days and stupid "it's wacky Brace! Honk! Honk!" Is still making me laugh. 🤦‍♀️

hannah

Yeah, *megacringe*

John S

These are so great! More please

Hans Zachery Syme

Senator, I worked with Jack Kennedy conspiracy theories, I was friends with Jack Kennedy conspiracy theories. You sir, did a sick job on this pod. It fucking rocks! -Lloyd Bentsen

Michael S. Judge

Nixon got his seat on Pepsi's board of directors by taking a picture of Khrushchev drinking a Pepsi during the "kitchen debate" and threatening to leak it with a tagline like "Pepsi: The Official Soft Drink of Communism." Not a joke

Sick dude

I love this series! I found this In Jerry Kroth's 2018 book "The Kennedy Assassination: What really happened?" One FBI document outlines a witness reported being contacted by Jack Ruby on 11/22/63 and invited to Dealey Plaza to "watch the fireworks". The witness reported being with Ruby at the postal annex facing the Depository when JFK was shot. https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32167992.pdf